We are playing a chess match, and we've taken checkmate off the table

[rudy23]

That's one thing that Republicans get that our Democrats just don't seem to. Government is a human construction with human rules--so it's just like any other game.

While we sit here and spout ideals, the Republicans are learning how to dominate the game.

Really, what is the point to any of this oversight, with impeachment off the table? These subpoenas and hearings and letters are all toothless with impeachment off the table. What's the point to any of this political discussion, when Dems have already announced that they will do nothing to hold this administration accountable? All we're doing is moving pieces around the board--nothing is going to happen with impeachment off the table.

Keeping impeachment on the table doesn't mean we have to actually go through with it. WE JUST HAVE TO STOP BROADCASTING THAT IT'S OFF THE TABLE!

Can you possibly do a worse job of negotiating than that?

[lligrd]

1. Exactly! How Can They Say Impeachment Is Off The Table?

It is and always has been on the table. It was "on" the table during the Clinton admin and every previous President. It is "on" the table because the Constitution placed it there. I find it extremely irritating when they have the hubris to make the statement that it is "off" the table. Nobody has the power to take it "off".

[Solo_in_MD]

4. Because its not viable

No one is going to get expelled from office...get over it. The 2/3 of the Senate requirement alone prevents that. Also what would stop a Repuke majority from returning the favor? (its a pendulum...they will get power back some day).

Their time is limited, their ability to get legislation through gone. We need to solidify our gains and build upon them. Impeachment and trial at this point is a short term feel good that will do us more harm in the end. This time the party leadership and most of the presidential candidates is right

[rudy23]

5. Did it hurt the Repukes to impeach Clinton in '98?

It hurt them all the way to the White House, in my mind.

[Solo_in_MD]

6. Acutally I think it did, its also what has lead to this current frenzy

which is IMO is a tit-for-tat scenario that NEEDS TO STOP NOW

[rudy23]

8. Actually, I'd say that Bush and Cheney's flagrant lawlessness is what has lead to the current frenzy

The "tit-for-tat" framing is exactly what the repukes want people to think this impeachment fervor is all about.

So now, every time a Democrat is in office, the Repukes will impeach, knowing that Dems will not dare to impeach the next R president, for fear of looking like they are involved in a "tit for tat" scenario.

Because to Dems in DC, allowing a bunch of bullies to wad up the Constitution and throw it into a trash-can is better than looking like you are fighting back.

[rudy23]

7. Also, like I said, you can keep impeachment on the table without going through with it

When you announce to your opponent that you're taking your most powerful move off the table, you are giving the game over to them.

And that's our problem--Democrat's don't want to treat our political process like the game it is. Our candidates think they can win by having the better ideals. Our political process is a human invention--there are human shortcomings in the way it's set up, and VERY human ways to exploit those shortcomings in our system.

Some would call it "gaming" the system. I say, we don't do enough of it, as evidenced by this woeful move to take impeachment off the table.

[Throwing Stones]

9. impeachment isn't a political tool

so much as it is a constitutional duty. Additionally, even if conviction is unlikely, the proceedings would at least distract the * misadministration so that they wouldn't be able to continue down the horrible path they're taking this country (e.g., confrontation with Iran and God knows what else).

[Usrename]

10. So you believe that the President should be above the law.

There should never be any consequences for any criminal conduct once he is sworn in.

So what if these guys create another genocide, they have the right to do it so quit whining about it.

No one and nothing should be able to stop them.

Is that your view of America?

[Solo_in_MD]

12. Im saying there will not be conviction in the Senate and probably not even impeachment in the House

If there has been criminal activity there will me ample time and better support in the next administration to bring charges.

[rudy23]

13. deleted--posted in wrong place

[SoonerPride]

2. Correction, we're playing OLD MAID

And the otherside is playing battleship.

We're not even playing the same damn game.

[leftofthedial]

3. using the game analogy

both sides, co-conspirators in the destruction of the USA, are running out the clock.

[ElboRuum]

11. Chess Continued.

You know, there is no greater thrill in chess than being in a decidedly losing position, beaten down to your last little bit of material, and your opponent makes a crucial mistake. You ambush his pieces with what little you have left, trading it down until there's nothing but two kings standing. Stalemate.

The only problem is, it positively sucks to get stalemated when YOU were the one in the winning position. A stalemate is a victory to the weak player, a defeat to the strong.

Right now we are in the "strong" position, and the stalemate's looking more probable all the time.

[rudy23]

14. By Pelosi's logic, any pres can do whatever they want in the last couple years of their term

Since it's too close to the end of their term for impeachment to make a difference anyway.

[truedelphi]

15. I would rephrase your statement - "Republicans are learning how to dominate the game."

To read "As Democrats master conceding at almost every opportunity, Republicans are learning how to dominate the game."

[rudy23]

16. I agree 100%. That's definitely more accurate.

Democrats are acting like they can win the game with rhetoric. You can win an election with rhetoric about as well as you could win a tennis match with rhetoric.

You have to WIN first, THEN implement our ideals.

[bigtree]

17. I really don't see how anyone can 'take it off the table"

It's still in the constitution. It's going to proceed if it has the support of enough legislators. Pelosi won't stand in the way if that happens. She says in the infamous "interview" with no transcript, that she believes that when the "case is built" in Congress, impeachment will get that support it needs to advance.

What she's saying is that she won't be leading that charge. That makes sense if any effort to impeach by our party intends to proceed without the overriding sense of partisanship which could obscure the charges.

Also, she needs to be able to perform her duties as Speaker of the whole House without every action being labeled as some pretext to removing Bush and Cheney from office.

Impeachment can't be rammed through as many would like, It has to have enough support to advance. Right now, that essential level of support doesn't exist in this Congress. That support will have to come from the reaction and reception to evidence coming out of one of the committees or from some outside prosecution. That's why the efforts of those investigative committees should be actively supported and advocated by those so concerned with the enforcement of the rule of law, by advancing these legislative processes which could very well lead to an ultimate resolution like impeachment.

[FogerRox]

18. Very good analogy, but the table has yet to be set

If at some point mainstream sentiment demands impeachment, then it will be time to put impeachment back on the table, and IMHO the foundation is being built as we speak.

It would be really funny if the repubs for for that line about impeachment is off the table, untill it was too late....