Did the Chimp use the Homeland Security Department to push the immigration bill?

[BuyingThyme]

That is, did the Chimp order Immigration Customs and Enforcement (ICE) to conduct several immigration raids over the last several months only in hopes of assuring passage of his long-term immigration bill? Did he put pressure on the business community to put pressure on the Senators?

http://www2.steamboatpilot.com/news/2007/jun/24/customs_enforcement_raids_impact_local_businesses/

[ChairmanAgnostic]

1. is this an example of a rhetorical question?

and was the previous question another example?

[BuyingThyme]

2. What was the previous question?

[ChairmanAgnostic]

8. the rhetorical question in my post's headline?

badly phrased, I agree.

[BuyingThyme]

9. Oh, man. I missed that one by a mile.

This poll is my attempt to find out if anybody has been thinking about those recent ICE raids in the context of the ever-pending immigration bill.

[EFerrari]

10. Half of what these felons do is window dressing. The other half

is just because they can.

[BuyingThyme]

3. ...And is the only reason nobody's discussing this is because the HSD has been improperly used

to help Harry Reid?

[aquart]

4. Explain.

[BuyingThyme]

5. Harry Reid pushes corporate immigration bills to keep

slave labor in high supply in Reno and Vegas casinos. That's his job. He's an evil man.

Have you seen the raids discussed anywhere in the context of the bill?

[TwilightGardener]

6. Wow--Hillary is a PNACer (you said this in another thread), and

now Harry Reid is an evil man. Who needs Republicans, when we have you?

[BuyingThyme]

7. Yes, Hillary is very much onboard the PNAC plan. That's not my fault.

And it's not my fault that Harry Reid writes immigration bills under instructions from corporate American and George W. Bush. These are bad, evil things. Why do you support them?

[TwilightGardener]

11. Prove either of your assertions with a citation or a link. Otherwise,

these are your own opinions/conclusions. What part of the immigration bill did Reid author, for example? Where is Hillary a signatory to PNAC? Where/when did she specifically endorse or ally herself with that organization?

[BuyingThyme]

12. ..

http://reid.senate.gov/newsroom/record.cfm?id=253052

[BuyingThyme]

13. ..

http://reid.senate.gov/newsroom/record.cfm?id=277754

[BuyingThyme]

14. ..

...

The bill's official sponsor in the Senate is Majority Leader Harry Reid, though it was crafted in large part as a result of efforts by Senators Kennedy, McCain and Kyl, along with Senator Lindsey Graham, and input from President George W. Bush, who strongly supports the bill. For that reason it has been referred to in the press by various combinations of these five men's names. A larger group of senators was involved in creating the bill, sometimes referred to as the 'Gang of 12'.<1> This group includes, in addition to the aforementioned senators, Senators Dianne Feinstein, Mel Martinez, Ken Salazar and Arlen Specter.

...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_bill

[BuyingThyme]

15. Hillary is a leading member of the Democratic Leadership Council,

which is very supportive of PNAC. But let's not forget that she, as an individual, has been extremely supportive of PNAC's wars, particularly the one in Iraq. It's pretty simple, isn't it?

...

The DLC gave strong support for the 2003 invasion of Iraq. Prior to the war, Will Marshall co-signed a letter to President Bush from the Project for the New American Century endorsing military action against Saddam Hussein. During the 2004 Primary campaign the DLC attacked Presidential candidate Howard Dean as an out-of-touch liberal because of Dean's position of only pursuing Osama Bin Laden instead of invading Iraq. The DLC dismissed other critics of the Iraq invasion such as filmmaker Michael Moore as "Anti-American" and members of the "loony left" <7>. Even as domestic support for the Iraq War plummeted in 2004 and 2005, Marshall called upon Democrats to balance their criticism of Bush's handling of the Iraq War with praise for the President's achievements and cautioned "Democrats need to be choosier about the political company they keep, distancing themselves from the pacifist and anti-American fringe."

...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Leadership_Council

[BuyingThyme]

16. ..

...

Will Marshall is one of the founders of the New Democrat movement, which aims to steer the US Democratic Party toward a more centrist orientation. Since its founding in 1989, he has been president of the Progressive Policy Institute, a think tank affiliated with the Democratic Leadership Council.

He recently served on the board of the Committee for the Liberation of Iraq, an organization chaired by Joe Lieberman and John McCain designed to build bipartisan support for the invasion of Iraq.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_Marshall

[BuyingThyme]

17. ..

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/04/21/iraq.hillary/

...

"The consensus was the same, from the Clinton administration to the Bush administration," she said. "It was the same intelligence belief that our allies and friends around the world shared.

...

(The Big PNAC Lie.)

[TwilightGardener]

18. I could not get your first two links to open--

I understand that Reid sponsored the bill (which, by the way, I supported), but I was curious as to what part of it you feel shows that he used homeland security to further corporate greed on the backs of illegals. Sorry, but I'm not buying the Hillary+DLC=PNAC equation. I do not believe she is a neocon. There may be links between the organizations, but that does not necessarily translate to her being a PNACer. From the lady's own mouth, she has criticized the war multiple times, offered a withdrawal plan, and promised to end the war. You might have a beef with her not pulling out ALL troops (neither will Obama), but that does not make her a neocon. And not taking options "off the table" does not mean she intends to invade Iran.

[BuyingThyme]

19. The links work fine for me.

The ICE is a HSD agency. They've been raiding illegals during the push for this incredibly stupid bill.

I never said Hillary was a member of PNAC. I said she's supported the PNAC agenda. She has.

Start over. Read what people write. Don't put words in people's mouths in order to disprove points that haven't been made.

[TwilightGardener]

20. Wanting to end the war is a PNAC agenda? Hillary supports

invading Iran? Not getting you. I can open the links now (maybe my connection was too slow before--it kept timing out)--I also don't get how Harry Reid is "evil"--the links don't say "evil" to me. I understand you're saying that since he represents a state that relies heavily on illegals for hotel maids, construction, etc. then he must be wanting to further exploit them by pushing this bill. That would make sense if he authored a part of the bill that gives employers a loophole, or some other way to keep the illegal gravytrain going. Otherwise, I can't conclude he has bad motives, not without proof. How do the raids relate? Does he own a casino/hotel that was raided? Did he knowingly hire illegals?

[BuyingThyme]

21. Does Hillary have a problem with invading Iran?

Or did you make that up? If you, as a Democrat, wanted to support the PNAC agenda, how would your actions differ from Hillary Clinton's? Wouldn't you support the lie/war until it was politically unfeasible? Wouldn't you change your story after the fact?

As for Harry, I don't think corporations should be allowed to import labor in order to make another buck. I don't think corporations should be allowed to create a social structure of their liking. That's evil. That's what Habeas, errr Harry is all about. He calls it the "economy." No loopholes needed to lock up slave labor for several years -- only that bill.

Again, about the raids: Don't you find it suspicious that the most aggressive immigration-law enforcement in the history of our country has suddenly surfaced at the same time the Chimp is pushing so hard for this immigration bill?