http://www.pbs.org/kcet/tavissmiley/archive/200702/20070207_luntz.htmlAnd here's the part about Wally-Mart:
Luntz: And there are arguments, there are very good economic arguments, and I'm a language guy, I'm not an academic. So I'm not gonna engage you in the debate over the minimum wage. But I do know that the American people don't accept how people, how CEOs can make the money they can make at the same time that they're laying off workers, not treating their customers as pleasantly as they should be, and not even responding to shareholders.
At the same time, they're making 20 or 30 or $50 million dollars, and people – and Wal-Mart’s the best example of this – people aren’t making more than a few dollars above minimum wage, and they can’t get healthcare benefits, they get no job security, and they don't even know which hours they're gonna work. Wal-Mart is an example of where corporate America’s gone too far.
We need freedom, we need the free market system, which, by the way, communicates better than Capitalism. Capitalism says there are winners and losers. The free market system says that everyone at least has an opportunity to succeed. But Wal-Mart is an example of Capitalism. And to help their customers, they’ve hurt their employees. And I don't think that’s right.Tavis: Wal-Mart, my full disclosure, is a sponsor of this program. No, no, no…
Luntz: Now you tell me.
Tavis: No, no, no, (laugh) you…
Luntz: You guys can’t see this, but there are guns that are coming out…
Tavis: No, no, no, no, no.
Luntz: …from the crew people over here.
Tavis: You gotta always stand on your truth, and speak truth to power. That’s not what this program’s all about.
I only raise that because – not defending Wal-Mart, because I know what they would say. I've heard it and read it, you know as well as I do. What Wal-Mart would say is that, “We are giving people an opportunity to work. When we come into these depressed communities, there are no jobs. We help to give people an opportunity to,” you know the spiel.Luntz: And more power to you for doing it. That’s a great thing that they do.
I believe that Wal-Mart gives people the chance to buy goods and services that they need at affordable prices. But they have such a high profit, surely they could afford healthcare for their workers.Tavis: We’ll move off the Wal-Mart thing. Let’s go from Wal-Mart to…
Luntz: I just caused you an awful lot of trouble, didn’t I?
Tavis: No, not at all. No problem at all. You think that’s the first time I've heard a criticism of Wal-Mart (laugh)? That’s not the first time.
Luntz: No, but you did unbutton your jacket. And as someone who’s…
Tavis: No, my jacket was already unbuttoned.
Luntz: As an observer, when you start to shift in your chair, you know that you’ve done – when you said to me, "surge," you saw me go off my chair. When I said, "Wal-Mart," I could see your eyes going (laugh), "Oh my God, why did I have him on the show?"
Tavis: Not at all, not at all. I was surging by moving in my seat 'cause I'm anxious to get to, before these two minutes run out, these names I wanna throw at you. George Bush. Apparently, he and Rove had it right for a long time. What went wrong? Was it just the language, or was it public policy?