please help: calling WGN radio to "talk" to wingnut host who says M. Moore "just makes stuff up."

[Gabi Hayes]

especially regarding Fahrehnheit 911.

I know there are a lot of wingnut sites out there that say he's lying about plenty in the movie, usually citing the flights of Saudi nationals.

what are some of the other things he's supposedly lying about, and does anybody have some point by point refutations of assertions of his mendacity?

thanks

I know that a lot of the problems detractors have is with his 'juxtapositon' of clips, facts, etc., but that's tough toenails. that's NOT 'making stuff up'

anybody can quibble with his editorial choices/judgment, but I'd like to know exactly what false information he uses to make his point

thanks

EDIT: any suggestions on what to say to this guy?

[wryter2000]

1. Roger and Me

There's a rw rumor going around that he did meet with Roger Smith and was lying about it in the movie.

He did meet with Roger Smith years before he started the movie. Smith did not meet with him while he was trying to get a meeting with him about the layoffs in Flint.

[wryter2000]

2. 9/11

They claim that he said no one in Congress had a kid in Iraq. Lie! He said, correctly, that only 1 person in Congress had a kid in Iraq. A democrat!

[Beaverhausen]

3. What 'stuff' is the host claiming he made up? Make him back up his assertions

[Gabi Hayes]

7. that's going to be my first question, along with where, exactly, he got

his information

I'm going to ask him to prove his assertion, since he made it.

he also said, when the movie reviewer told him about Moore's paying for that wingnut guy's wife's medical bills, so he could keep his anti-Moore website going, "Shut UP! Shut UP!"

he also claimed, and used the 911 workers, as an example, that LOTS of people in his movies have claimed that he abused their appearance in it.

the only thing I've seen in the press about those three people made no mention of their being dissatisfied about their appearance, and the only one I've seen quoted was MORE than appreciative. I think, but am not certain, that the female (one or two, were there?) said she was more than happy to get the help.

I know about the soldier who sued Moore about being misrepresented, but that case was either thrown out of court, or he's already lost, and he's been revealed to be a wingnut, right?

[wryter2000]

4. 9/11

They claim he said that the Saudis muckety-mucks were flown out of the US while no one else could fly. He never said that. What he said was they were flown to somewhere within the US when no one else could fly, which is true.

[RufusTFirefly]

5. Keep in mind: It's ALL about Michael Moore

As long as Moore remains the focus, the MSM can avoid confronting our horrible health care system and the greedy, cold-blooded insurance companies who control it.

[wryter2000]

8. Yeah

Point this out. Put the wingnut on the defensive.

[azureblue]

6. go to MM's web site

all of F9/11 is documented, but the way to stop the wingnut from lying is to ask him specifically what MM is lying about, then make a substantial bet that MM is telling the truth. As usual, as soon as a wingnut sees that lying will cost him money, they stop.

[Beaverhausen]

9. link to fact page at his website - for F9/11

http://www.michaelmoore.com/books-films/f911reader/index.php?id=16

[Gabi Hayes]

12. thanks. I haven't had time to go to his site yet. I wanted to get this

up as fast as possible

[Gabi Hayes]

11. good idea about the bet. I'll try that.

to his favorite charity

he also said that Paul ONeill was a liar when his book came out.

wonder how he feels about that now, seeing as how everything provable in his book has been shown to be true.

[zulchzulu]

10. Moore does a GREAT job with the movie script and links to back it up

http://michaelmoore.com/warroom/f911notes/

Let's see the Bushbots debunk this stuff...

:crazy:

[DBoon]

13. I *remember* that flight

I thought it was very strange at the time.

It was no big secret - the Bin Laden family was flown out while the rest of commercial airspace was locked down.

I mean, this was in the press right after Sept 11.

[Gabi Hayes]

14. no...they were flown out afterwards, but they WERE allowed to gather

Saudi royals inside the US while nobody else flew. I've just been to Moore's site, and that's what he says, with support

what you're saying is what his detractors SAY he said, then call him a liar as a result

[DBoon]

16. The I remembered wrong, damnit

But I swear something like this went on during that week - OK, it probably was gathering them domestically, but I do recall the flights going on when ordinary citizens were grounded

[RufusTFirefly]

17. You may remember that, but that's not what the film alleges

FAHRENHEIT 9/11: “At least six private jets and nearly two dozen commercial planes carried the Saudis and the bin Ladens out of the U.S. after September 13th. In all, 142 Saudis, including 24 members of the bin Laden family, were allowed to leave the country.”

NOTE: It should be noted that even though the film does not make the allegation, strong evidence has recently come to light that at least one private plane flew to pick up Saudi nationals while private flights were still grounded. Moreover, for nearly three years, the White House has denied that this flight existed. This was reported in the June 9, 2004 St. Petersburg Times article cited below.

MichaelMoore.com

[Gabi Hayes]

15. quick ! anybody have the name of the soldier who sued him?

googling now....

[Beaverhausen]

18. Peter Damon

[Beaverhausen]

20. dismissed

In May of 2006, Moore was unsuccessfully sued by a veteran who lost both arms in the war in Iraq. Sgt. Peter Damon, of Middleborough, MA, alleged that Moore used snippets of a television interview without his permission to falsely portray him as anti-war in Fahrenheit 9/11.<9> A US District Court Judge dismissed the suit on December 21, 2006.<3>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Moore_controversies

[RufusTFirefly]

19. Sgt. Peter Damon (see article link)

Michael Moore Wins in Lawsuit

[Gabi Hayes]

22. I saw that article, and the writer is full of horsehit, because he apparently doesn't like

Moore's POV

Moore NEVER interviewed the guy, NEVER said he was against the war. his POINT was that vets like him are getting SCREWED when they come home

the jerkoff (I feel sorry for his loss, but that doesn't NOT make him an asshole)sued for 85 million!

the suit was tossed

the crux of his legal argument was that he didn't sign a waiver to have the footage, shot by NBC, for Moore's use.

he didn't sign one for NBC, which made the SAME POINT as Moore

did he sue them?

I don't think so

[RufusTFirefly]

21. Again, keep in mind you're being misdirected

Wow! Look over there!

The show should be discussing the startling allegations Sicko makes. All this stuff about F9/11, though interesting, is a deliberate diversion.

[Gabi Hayes]

23. thanks for the thought, but they just refused to take my call.

however, the reviewer is on later tonight.

he hates Moore (mainly because he hated Roger and Me, and has had his opinion color everafter)

I think I'll call him tonight

he really liked Sicko, and will be talking about it.

he DIDN'T like the Guantanamo stuff...his main problem is that he thinks Moore is too manipulative

he also thinks Moore 'just makes stuff up,' and I'm going to challenge him on that, too,

he's much more reasonable than the ahole that's on now, who has had Ollie North on his show several times, along with other equally dreadful cretins

[Gabi Hayes]

24. big story on SICKO right now on Lehrer

can't wait to see them start savaging it, the way they did Inconvenient Truth

they have a liar on now, lying about "waiting lists"

that lie was debunked here recently, with statistical support

[madrchsod]

25. wgn? ick!

who is on this time of night?

[Gabi Hayes]

26. Ick, I know, most of the time.

Steve Cochran was that particular ick

former hack standup comedian who WGN apparently thinks is 'charming'. maybe to the geezecrowd that listens to Spike ODell, and worshipped that fat dead guy, and Wally Phillips

he's broadened his horizons to include his extremely ignorant right wing ravings

I flip channels constantly, between AM/FM and satellite, landing on WGN only as a last resort

the movie guy, Nick Digiglio, is on weekends...tonight at 11, and is usually pretty good, and hates Bush. keeps it off politics most of the time, but can't stand Moore.

didn't you say in another thread you only listen to the Score and NPR?

have you tried AM 850 during the day? it's very directional, but you might be able to get it....it's the AAR outlet for Chicago. I got it way up into Wisconsin, but the signal goes from SE to NW, so you might not get it.

try Digigilo tonight. I'm going to call in and discuss Sicko with him, if I can

[madrchsod]

27. can`t get 850 out here

steve cochran is really bad. nick is cool and i like the rest of the overnight line up...usually i stick with bbc overnight