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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-30-07 09:28 AM
Original message
Michael Moore's Sicko
http://scienceblogs.com/denialism/2007/06/michael_moores_sicko_or_why_or.php

I went to see Michael Moore's Sicko last night and it is truly worthy of being seen by every American. I say that knowing how many feel about Michael Moore and his tendency towards spectacle. I hope that people can set aside whatever prejudice they have towards Moore and see this movie.

This is a movie that contains more truth than any he has made so far. I went in with a skeptical mind, knowing the issues that face the practice of medicine in the United States in this new millennium, how easy they can be discussed inaccurately or flippantly and how medicine was once practiced in this country. Medicine is something deeply personal to me as I am a the son of two doctors - my mother a private-practice GP who has been practicing for more than 30 years, and my father a research MD at the NIH. This movie struck many chords, as someone who has insurance, who studies medicine, who cares about fixing our current medical care system, who has known doctors, and who has received medical care. There is something for everyone in this movie, doctors, nurses, patient, and policy-makers alike, and I sincerely wish that everyone gives it a chance and an open mind. I doubt anyone will see it and be disappointed or unaffected.

Now, the rest will be below the fold, I'll try to keep spoilers to a minimum, but I'll need to discuss some scenes in order to describe the importance of this movie.

First let me give you my background so that you know my biases and understanding of the current medical problem.

My mother, who has long practiced as a general practitioner, hates insurance companies for what they have done to medicine. She has been in practice for decades, and when in the 90s HMOs and insurance companies began to dominate not just the financial side but the actual practice of medicine, she despaired. It has been heartbreaking to see someone who loved medicine and cares greatly about her patients' welfare lose interest in practicing medicine as she's had to hire extra employees to deal with the endless paperwork - not designed to clarify medical records but to create barriers to reimbursement. The not-so-secret policy of flat-out denying legitimate claims a set percentage of the time has set her teeth on edge, as she has to personally fight with insurance companies for reimbursement for procedures - like flu shots - which clearly the insurance companies feel doctors won't fight over since it isn't worth their time.

To see them second-guess her care of people, without knowing a damn thing about her patients' health, is perhaps the worst insult of all. To tell a doctor what to do with her patients, as if they know something she doesn't - quite the opposite. It is a system that is designed to demoralize doctors into being passive and unwilling to fight with insurance companies on behalf of their patients. Being as stubborn as all hell, she hasn't stopped fighting with them, but the joy of practicing medicine has clearly gone.

My father, on the other hand, works for a socialized medical system - the public health service and the NIH. Patients in clinical trials get free care. No one second-guesses care. No one is looking over his shoulder to tell him what to do (at least in the clinic). Patients get care as part of his protocols, the NIH provides it, and that incessant demoralizing fight over pennies simply isn't there. He will work as a physician until he dies at his desk, we're pretty sure.

The most important thing to remember about this movie is that it is about people who have insurance. It is about those who have done the right thing, who have tried to protect themselves and their families and be responsible citizens, and the values of a country that allows them to be abused by hopelessly defective system.

Some of the most emotionally effective scenes came from the claims adjusters, medical officers and workers in the insurance industry who are clearly distraught by the damage the insurance industry does to good people who have paid good money and are still denied the care they deserve. In tears they describe how they have ruined lives to meet quotas, and denied care to people who suffered and even died as a results of their decisions. These are not bad people who work for the insurance companies, they are lodged in a system that seeks profit, that is all. And this is the root of the problem.

Moore shows many examples of how the insurance system, in the course of seeking higher profit, is designed to deny care rather than provide it. The evidence is sound, we all know this is a problem, it can not be denied. Those who are most to blame are the medical officers of these companies, who deny care to sound claims under their signature as doctors. Not only do they deserve to lose their licenses, but probably also deserve jail time for the reprehensible and negligent practice of medicine on people they do not know, who they have not seen, and whose charts they clearly never have reviewed. One possible solution - a stopgap at least - would to make medical officers subject to Boards of Physician Quality Assurance in the states in which the insurance companies operate. That way, they will be forced to be licensed in the individual states, and their will be state, medical and civilian oversight of their decisions. My mother actually tried to get just such a law passed in Maryland a decade ago - she really is pretty fiesty. Industry, finally playing the "I'll Sail Away" card, managed to quash the legislation.

Moore is at his best when the movie is a true documentary. He points the camera at good people, who have done nothing to deserve the treatment they get, and the undeniable injustice of their treatment at the hands of insurance companies. The stunt of taking them to Cuba turned into the most emotionally poignant of the movie. These were firefighters and EMTs who were sick as a result of their efforts at the WTC after 9/11. The Cuban doctors treated them, without question, and these people in all sincerity were floored by the simple receipt of medical care. In a foreign country. In the third world. That is communist.

The movie had several flaws. The first, is the suggestion that it was solely the Republicans fault we don't have universal health care as a result of Hillary Clinton's efforts in the 90s. They deserve the lion's share of the blame. However, Hillary also made two fatal mistakes of her own in the attempted implementation of the health care. First, she tried to construct the system behind closed doors, out of the eyes of the public. Second, she didn't include any doctors, none, in the formation of her plan. Moore does show that now she is in their pocket, she's given up fighting with them, instead she has joined them. She will not get my vote.

The second flaw was in the somewhat credulous coverage of the medical systems in other countries. These systems are superior to ours, don't get me wrong. We pay more money per capita for medical care than any other country yet we receive the 2nd worst care in the industrialized world. There are states in this country that have infant mortality rates rivaling the third world. People, with and without insurance, suffer and die without medical interventions that would save their lives. I doubt anyone in Canada or Britain or France would trade their system for the American one in a million years. However, it will be a source of attacks on Moore and the film that will distract from the central message. Profit-motive must be removed from the distribution of medical care.

Expect a fair amount of the industry deck of cards to emerge as a result of this movie. Expect to hear "No problem", and "consumer freedom". Expect "Competition is magic" and "Jobs!". Hell, expect the entire deck, especially the bogey-man cards of "Bureacrats" and "Unamerican/foreign" and "communist/socialist". They will all be trotted out in turn. But there can be little doubt, our system sucks, and those of the other industrialized countries are far superior. The BS about rationing care and absence of technology are idiotic canards with no data to back them up. Don't believe it.

As I am going into medicine and one day will treat patients, I'd like to say I'd rather be paid a half or even a quarter of what would be expected if I could practice medicine unimpeded by the incessant fight for reimbursement, and the constant second-guessing of medical care by insurance companies that only want to deny, deny, deny. Medical education in such a system would have to be free, this another point made by the movie, debt is used to chain people to unjust systems. As much as free-marketers talk about "choice" there is no choice in our current system. If you lose your job, you lose your insurance. If you fight with insurance companies and get dumped you lose your safety net. If you are poor you have no choice. If you have debt you have no choice. Who cares if I got paid less, at best I could again be proud of my profession, at the very least I'd know if I got sick, I wouldn't be bankrupted myself.

When the doctors tell the 9/11 workers they would be happy to treat them I felt like that is the kind of medicine I want to practice. Treatment of patients, the correct care for the illness, the best care possible, without question, without consideration. The ability to do the right thing, all the time. Hopefully, I won't have to move to Canada or Cuba to practice this type of medicine. But after this movie, I frankly have no stomach for American medicine.
http://scienceblogs.com/denialism/2007/06/michael_moores_sicko_or_why_or.php
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-30-07 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
1. K and r -- thanks Joanne98
for your thoughtful comments
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-30-07 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
2. Great review but I don't understand this point:
"The second flaw was in the somewhat credulous coverage of the medical systems in other countries. " Then the author goes on to explain just why our medical system is bad. So what is the flaw in the movie?

I also disagree with his other alleged flaw. As the author points out, Moore makes it clear that Hillary is now buddy buddy with the AMA.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-30-07 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
3. Excellent review. He did miss one other main point
and that was how countries with socialized medicine tend to view their citizens differently than this government does.

There, the citizen is seen as important enough to care about. Here, it's like we're seen as some sort of infestation, to be placated enough to keep us docile but certainly not as integral to this country.

It's a difference that came through loud and clear and made the segments shot in Canada, the UK, France and Cuba very painful to watch.

What have we become?
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-01-07 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #3
26. "treat humanity ... as an end and never simply as a means."
Edited on Sun Jul-01-07 12:45 AM by TahitiNut
"Act in such a way that you treat humanity, whether in your own person or in the person of any other, always at the same time as an end and never simply as a means." (Second formulation of the Categorical Imperative - Immanuel Kant)

Exploitation (e.g. of the sick and poor), objectification (e.g. of women), and commoditization (e.g. of workers) are all gross violations of the Categorical Imperative ... and the polestars of profiteers, rapists, murderers, and other thieves. Today's corporations have become perfectly designed to act contrary to one of the most fundamental ethical precepts ever articulated.

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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-30-07 09:42 AM
Response to Original message
4. Nice review - and may your Medical School loans be small :-) - re: Hillary -where does
SICKO show that Hillary is currently in bed with the insurance companies?

That may well be true - indeed all top tier and 2nd tier running are avoiding any challenges to the insurance companies except for Richardson with his Medicare begins at 55, and Edwards with his "Medicare like plan" that will be offered in competition to the insurance company offerings.


But I missed the proof of Hillary being in bed with insurance companies - could you point it out?

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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-30-07 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #4
17. I think Moore's coment about her receiving the 2nd HIGHEST amount
of donations from the Medical and Pharmaceutical companies is the point she's talking about. It's at the beginning of the movie, with the heads and the trailing money figures.
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-30-07 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. I saw that - but drug companies are not stopping single payer - it is the health insurance companies
money buys "access" and will be with us until we get exclusive Federal financing of federal elections. Moore was unable to point to Hillary votes that were pro-health insurance lobby and thus might be suggestive of money buying votes.

If Moore wanted to see who were the health companies friends he would have noted who introduces our bills into Congress - hint - look in Conn.

During the time I worked with the insurance lobbyists (84 to 96) what was used to control Congress was not contributions - it was the field force - the folks that currently sold the product and the folks that once sold the product - about 1/3 of the state level politicians were at the time former or current insurance salesmen.
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-30-07 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
5. KICK
:kick:
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-30-07 10:09 AM
Response to Original message
6. Has anybody been able to find a link to last nights ticket sales yet?
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canetoad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-30-07 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
7. Terrific review. K & R
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-30-07 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Thanx
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-30-07 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
9. Excellent Piece! I went to see SiCKO yesterday and there was healthy
attendance at the 4:20 show in Bloomington, Indiana. "Hoosiers for Commonsense Health Care" was allowed to table inside the theater and lots of people stopped to pick up literature on their way out.

:applause:
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-30-07 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Excellent! I've been trying to find ticket sales numbers but I guess they're not out yet.
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-30-07 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Moore was on Larry King Live last night and he said that the first numbers
they had gotten before he went on air had "stunned" him -- I don't think he was looking for the numbers that Fahrenheit 9/11 did -- but said that numbers higher than Columbine would please him. If he was stunned then the numbers must've been better than Columbine at least.

My local theater was not nearly as packed for SiCKO as it had been for F9/11 - but what that means, I have no clue. I don't watch TV, so I don't know if there have been adds running on TV locally.

:shrug:
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-30-07 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. I saw that. I checked his website but there's nothing official yet.
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-30-07 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
11. kick
:kick:
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-30-07 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
14. kick
:hi:
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-30-07 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
15. Blogger report! So i went and saw “Sicko”
http://www.katieallisongranju.com/2007/06/30/so-i-went-and-saw-sicko/
Last night , Jon and I joined some friends and a bunch of fellow Knoxville bloggers to go see Michaell Moore’s new movie, “Sicko.”

It is my hope that this movie, which is as Cathy says MORE A FORM OF POLITICAL PROTEST than a documentary, will one day be seen as the watershed moment that finally galvanized Americans to action on this critical issue..

Moore posits that our medical care system is completely broken. He focuses on three major points in exploring his thesis:

-Millions of Americans have zero health insurance, meaning they are living without any access to even the simplest health care.

-Even for Americans who have “good” health care, it’s a big, confusing ripoff. You pay your big premiums each month (and your employer is also paying out the nose), and while you may be “covered” if you get sick — and be able to get the treatment you need — you will then be bombarded by huge bills for uncovered services, copays and deductibles. Many, many insured Americans end up losing everything when the bills start rolling in after major medical care is needed.

-The fact that medical insurance companies are for-profit means that they will always seek to avoid paying for as many services as possible, meaning that many insured Americans needing medical care are denied treatments. Some of them die. Many of them suffer. And health insurance execs are among the most highly compensated Americans, making salaries in the 6 and 7 figures off the backs of a syetem where millions are struggling to pay their premiums and get the care they need.

One of my favorite parts of the movie was Moore’s conversation with the wildly entertaining elderly British Labour leader TONY BENN, who explained how the British ended up with nationalized health service (NHS). Benn, and the other British citizens (and some Americans living in London) Moore spoke with, obviously hold the NHS up as a point of patriotic pride. Started in 1948, as the British were reeling in the aftermath of what they had lived through in WWII, the NHS marked a sense of national hope and identity - a way for the Brits to say “we take care of our own — all of our own.”

That idea of “taking care of our own” was echoed by the every day Canadians with whom Moore spoke. They simply believe that it’s the upstanding thing to do to make sure that all of their neighbors have access to health care, and they are willing to pay part of their own incomes to provide it. It’s a low drama approach. It’s not about politics or fear of the socialist bogeyman or Hillary Clinton…they see it as simply The Right Thing To Do.

One of the most disturbing parts of the movie, and a sidenote of American history of which I hadn’t been aware, is how Edgar Kaiser (the guy behind the first and largest American HMO) convinced the Nixon administration to get behind HMOs by explaining that he had created profit incentives in his health insurance business to pay as little as possible in health care claims.

I support universal health care for all Americans. I supported it before I saw this movie and I support it more strongly now. There are various ways we could create such a system, but as the only western industrialized nation without universal health care, it’s absurd to suggest that it cannot be done.

I will likely write more about the movie and my thoughts on this issue later, but for now I am going to walk down the street to my neighborhood market and get a Coke. My favorite cashier there, Britney, is due back from her two week maternity leave today, and I think I’ll drop a few more dollars in the several jars and cans set up on the counter begging for help for various children in our community who are in need of operations and chemo that their parents cannot afford
http://www.katieallisongranju.com/2007/06/30/so-i-went-and-saw-sicko/
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-30-07 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. As you can imagine, 'Wedgie' Benn has been demonised by the
Edited on Sat Jun-30-07 02:45 PM by KCabotDullesMarxIII
full panoply of the media all his political life. He knows an awful lot about our politics going back a long way, he knows where the bodies are buried (not perhaps a propitious metaphor in the US), and understands the underlying evil of the hard right to an extent that understandably frightens them.

I remember, in a late-night discussion on TV, a former Director of the CIA (can't remember who it was) scoffing at something Benn said; then a bit later, something astonishing and very funny happened. The ex-CIA Director, said something, probably complained about something, whereupon Benn quietly asked, "What did I tell you...?" It had evidently been a vindication of what he had scoffed at from Benn's mouth. But the look of astonishment and new-found respect, almost awe on the CIA man's face was a sight to see.

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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-30-07 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
16. Firedoglake: Sick Sick Sick...........
http://firedoglake.com/
Even as Michael Moore’s latest film Sicko opens to excellent reviews, the US media seems to have spent much of the past few weeks doing America’s health-care industry a big fat favor by using bogus ‘information’ to undermine Moore’s call for single-payer health care.

You’d never know it from Howard Kurtz or Jeff Greenfield, but most Americans want exactly what Moore says they should have: Single-payer health care. Yet Kurtz, Greenfield and other GOP/Media Complex stalwarts are doing their damndest to pretend that, just as with the opposition to the Iraq atrocity, only fringeoid wacky-tackies would hold such opinions. (Meanwhile, CNN’s Glenn Beck — who has fantasized on the air about murdering Michael Moore — is apparently considered to be nice, mainstream and respectable by our GOP/Media moguls.)

Then again, why should we expect anything different from these people? As Media Matters reader Rajesh points out (and as I’ve found out through sad experience), they routinely snuff letters dissecting Bush in favor of the worst pro-Bush garbage so as to keep a “balance” that exists only in their heads and in those of the Republican National Committee zampolit to whom they apparently report on a regular basis. (Remember, while the Republicans’ buddies were paying for the silly “Harry and Louise” ads, it was “liberal” Howell Raines of the New York Times that led the media charge to destroy Hillary Clinton’s health-care reform plan, and whose attacks against the Clintons were given the most respect.)

Sick, sick, sick. http://firedoglake.com/

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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-30-07 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. I hope when the Dems have the political control due to them, they
Edited on Sat Jun-30-07 02:01 PM by KCabotDullesMarxIII
will prosecute the likes of Beck and Coulter for incitement murder or encouraging terrorism, in the context of a country in which multiple politically-motivated murders have occurred in living memory.

They may pass off their exhortations to murder as jokes, but there would be more than enough unstable admirers of that pair to render such an excuses wholly inadequate.
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-30-07 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. I can't say out loud what I've like to do to them...
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-30-07 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Precisely.
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kenny blankenship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-30-07 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #16
23. Isn't it amazing how blatant they are in trying to poison the well for Sicko?
On second thought, it's to be expected.
I hope all Americans go see Sicko, and I hope they remember the names of those in the media who tried to tell them it was not worth seeing.
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jcrew2001 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-30-07 05:16 PM
Response to Original message
24. Did anyone read Kurt Loder's response to Sicko?
Edited on Sat Jun-30-07 05:17 PM by jcrew2001
He's very anti-Moore. I haven't seen Sicko yet but I'm not sure if a "perfect" health care system can exist and not lose money. While it would be great to have a universal health care, the reality is not possible, there will always be people who fall through the cracks and can't get the treatment they need.

But still we as a community and as a govt can try to create systems that help the most people possible.

While I've heard that France's system is losing a lot of money, maybe we can't go that far, but try new things to do things better.

http://www.mtv.com/movies/news/articles/1563758/20070629/story.jhtml
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-01-07 12:42 AM
Response to Reply #24
27. i'm betting that kurt loder has FANTASTIC health insurance/benefits...
so "sicko" would most likely be falling on deaf ears in his case.
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Lugnut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-01-07 12:14 AM
Response to Original message
25. K&R n/t
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