Do we believe the Iraq war is breeding terrorists? Then how can we dismiss every incident...

[DeepModem Mom]

that appears as if it may be terrorism as nonsense? Or as conspiracy?

Are the terrorists we believe are being created sitting on their hands -- or might they be making plans, and, from time to time, carrying them out? I'm not talking about "Nexus of Politics and Terror" scares, dug up out of the files as politically needed. I'm talking about clear and present incidents, like a car full of explosives (even if the resulting blast would not be enough to blow away a city block). Or a flaming car rammed into an airport, even if driven by, for example, a Muslim mad as hell at the knighthood of Salman Rushdie.

We shouldn't live in fear, or have these incidents hyped in a way that keeps us in fear. But, on the other hand, it seems foolish to ignore or dismiss them -- especially as it seems to me we're trying to have it both ways: recognizing that the terror of our war in Iraq results in terrorist recruits, then denying that they exist.

[Marrah_G]

1. !

:applause:

I say this proves terrorism is fought through police work and people paying attention, not by invading countries that aren't sponsoring terrorists.

We say all the time here how the wars are aiding the terrorists and pushing more towards such extremes in answer to the killing of their loved ones. It is insane to automatically dismiss every foiled plot. Would people rather the police the do nothing and just let the idiot in chief "fight them over there"?

I say applaud police detectives and our candidates ought to be stressing that the really way to control terrorism is through good police work and NOT through war. Tough on terror AND anti-Iraq war. That is the message that would truly reach the majority of voters.

[DeepModem Mom]

4. I've posted here several times today that I lived in Britain for a while...

and saw real terror thwarted by good police work.

[Marrah_G]

12. I think many Americans don't realize the Europe had dealt with Terrorism long before 911

There is a portion of DU that yells "terra terra" with every report of a plot foiled. Yet these same people are the first to say "why was the information ignored" when something really does happen.

There are bad people in the world. There are people out there who use terrorism instead of tanks. Bush and Co are not the only evil people on the planet and some folks really need to figure that out.

[coalition_unwilling]

31. By the very defintiion of "terrorism" you promulgate, the U.S. and the

West in general are the world's biggest terrorists.

[newspeak]

20. BINGO!!!!!

"Real terrorism thwarted by good police work." I believe the act of terrorism is being "used" by this administration for certain agendas. However, there is real terrorism--to create an atmosphere to increase terrorism is folly unless you are "catapulting" a specific agenda. I agree, that terrorism should be acted upon as a criminal offense, instead of, going willy nilly attacking countries, murdering their civilians and destroying their infrastructure; thus, increasing the terrorism you're attempting to subdue. Of course, our present foreign policies and corporate policies do not help in subduing terrorism.

Terrorism cannot be fought with terrorism--maintaining the grounds that it's a criminal offense, instead of targetting countries, seems to me to be a more rational and humane approach. However, I doubt we have very many rational people at present at the helm.

[uppityperson]

16. Partially agree, partially not.

I agree with "this proves terrorism is fought through police work and people paying attention, not by invading countries that aren't sponsoring terrorists."

I disagree with the same statement in part, IF this was a terrorist attack (Glasgow), was it fought, did it fail due to police work or due to the ineptness of bombers?

Finally, there is no way to stop everyone who wants to do something bad. There would be no murders, etc, if this were possible. Good police work is much more effective than invading countries, or in taking away rights from citizens.

[Marrah_G]

22. It failed because of the ineptness of the bombers, if that is indeed what it is

The terrorists will never be 100% successful, nor will the police. Until peace can be gained in the world through talking and negotiation, the best we can do is hope good investigating can slow it down.

Yes, there is no way to stop the bad people all the time. Such is human nature. All we can do is try to stem the violence in the world through a combination of police work, peace talks and addressing social issues that increase violence in both individuals and groups.

[WilliamPitt]

2. Great minds think alike.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1220805

[DeepModem Mom]

3. That is EXCELLENT, Will Pitt! Very, very well said. nt

[Cameron27]

5. There you go!

Bush's policies are breeding terrorists, and we ought to expect that some of these threats are real. :thumbsup:

Damn the man, he's made it almost impossible to be anything but cynical.

[Karenina]

27. Check your language: BREEDING TERRORISTS

As though a people under siege by the *MIC were no more than lice spawning nits. It's a subtle point at which I aim and I will leave it to those who are sensitive enough to grasp it to do so.

[Cameron27]

28. Point taken. I just thought of it as a figure of speech,

but you may be correct. If it's offensive, I won't use it anymore.

[Karenina]

29. Please understand me...

I don't mean to be the "language police," it's just a challenge for ALL to be sensitive to and aware of HOW language is used to evoke subconscious ideas.

Zum Beispiel...

Those Arabs "breed" like rabbits.
WE have done them wrong and THEY will be out to get us
It's OK to KILL THE CHILDREN as nits hatch into lice.

It's NOT about using phrases, rather about what those phrases convey. Do you get what I mean? I watched a concert today of "Gnawa Diffusion" entitled "FUCKING COWBOYS." The audience was screaming loudly that the Ami Soldiers might hear them scream "RUN AWAY!" The subtext in French and Arabic was, YOU are NOT GUILTY. YOU are being USED. RUN AWAY!!!

As long as references are considered "common parlance" that refer to the "other" as somewhat LESS than HUMAN, we have a PROBLEM. OOPS, I mean a CHALLENGE.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

6. I think some countries have been down that road before. today it's the fear factor.

In the UK mainland it was not unusual to have several bomb blasts or threats a month in the days of the IRA. Also in many other countries eg. Spain with ETA. What is different nowadays is that the US and UK propaganda machines are out in force to make you AFRAID to the point that you will submit to them.

[proud patriot]

7. Makes perfect sense to me

:think:

[WinkyDink]

8. Bushco has increased my natchel-born cynicism.

[DeepModem Mom]

9. LOL! Mine, too, Winky -- mine, too. nt

[proud2BlibKansan]

10. It's about the timing

Cheney had a bad week.

More supboenas were issued.

SICKO debuted.

Congress is going on vacation.

Tine for a terror incident to distract everyone.

[pwb]

11. Bush probably did the British attacks to get the new prime minister in step

He lost his blair card.

[KoKo]

13. Because of Bush/NeoCon/PNAC POLICIES we Americans will LIVE WITH TERRA FOREVER!

so...once the novelty wears off we will learn to live with it. :shrug:

[spanone]

14. You live in fear of terror as you do crime. It's out there.

you can't dismiss every incident, as you can't make every incident the end of the world.

[blues90]

15. It seems to be common place for many people to dismiss all

Terrorists do exist , we have no idea if or how many may be in the US .

Just the fact that so far we have not been attacked is no reason to believe it can't happen or it is a joke .

I admit it's easy to dismiss the crank attacks as just that , but to dismiss the reality or possibility of one happening is plain stupid .

It is like the earthquakes here in Calif , last one was 1994 in Jan , for quite sometime most people were on alert and waiting .

We certainly could live without the false alarms , we can't count on or trust the news or the NSA , we never will know until something happens just like an earthquake . We can't live in fear and anticipation however we also cannot ignore the reality either .

Just like everytime you get into a car , you know you could end up in an accident and use caution and accept the reality and the risk , and here you do have some control .

[coalition_unwilling]

32. Most of the world's terrorists are in the Pentagon and Whitehall. Whatever -n/t

[Solly Mack]

17. ...

k/r

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

18. It is an amazing circular situation feeding those who concentrate their power off that,...

,...circle they created, for you and me.

If we reduce "terror" to an act of violence intended to impose one's view upon another,...it happens, literally, thousands (maybe, tens of thousands) of times, each and every day in our own nation.

Take domestic violence as an example. Another example would be the emotional abuse imposed by our media corporacrats on millions upon millions every damn day. That is terror.

[LoZoccolo]

19. I think that the "everything is a conspiracy" crowd is a loud contingent...

...that a lot of people don't waste time arguing with, so they seem more prevalent than they are amongst the population here.

[Pirate Smile]

23. I think you are right.

:)

[Marrah_G]

24. I hardly ever bother anymore

Apparently there are no evil people in the world besides Bush and America. Everyone else are peaceful angels who would never consider bombing restaurants, nightclubs, planes or trains.

The same people who scream "fake" every time there is a plot whether stopped by police or just simply failing are often some of the same people who say we are creating more terrorists by invading Iraq (and we are). I bet they would also bitch when incompetent presidents ignore warnings about people wanting to fly planes into buildings.

Terrorism can only be fought through good police work and finding solutions through communication and negotiation.

Our politicians should be shouting to the rooftops that good investigation is the key, something Europe shows us often and that "fighting them over there" is a failed tactic.

My ignore list gets longer everyday as irrational hysterics overshadow reasonable thought.

[baldguy]

21. I'm not going to feel threatened by a "terrorist" with a firecracker and a gallon of milk

No matter how afraid the bushies want me to be.

[CJCRANE]

25. Some terrorist acts are conspiracy

as in inside jobs or false flag - as per (allegedly) the Russian apartment bombings in '99.

Some are allowed to happen though "incompetence", e.g. 9/11 and arguably 7/7.

By the very fact that terrorists are tracked by and sometimes infiltrated by "secret" govt agencies there is plenty of room for manipulation and also with-holding the real facts from the public...so of course that will lead to speculation.

[DinahMoeHum]

26. I've got this attitutde: I've got a better chance of winning the lottery

than I have of being a "victim of terrorism"

and BTW, I look at Bush's "GWOT" in this acronym: "The War Against Terror" - TWAT

:evilgrin:

[coalition_unwilling]

30. I think the problem is the word "Terrorist" itself. Can you please give

me a solid definition of "terrorist" that doesn't equally implicate the forces of Western imperialism and neo-colonialism? Please don't give me the BS about "innocent civilians" either, because it's only Western civilians that count. Perish the notion that the civilians of any other society count as much as the civilians of the West.

If you want a good primer on Western terrorism inflicted on peoples of the third world, check out what the U.S. did in Southeast Asia from 1954-73. We only managed to kill some 2-3 million civilians.

[DeepModem Mom]

33. I used the phrase "the terror of our war in Iraq." And I thought we...

we were the "breeders," and not those who are bred, but I'll give that some thought.

I'm aware of the "late Victorian holocaust," and other atrocities from the West. I excuse none of them, East or West. I hope one day humanity evolves into something better.

Peace.