Why are some DU'ers downplaying a real act of terrorism?

[cgrindley]

Read the London Times:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article2010062.ece

This was a real act of terrorism, and when we downplay the threat of terrorism for political ends, we look like idiots and we lose credibility on the issue, costing us votes. That's right, you look like a moron on this issue and our candidates lose elections.

The only thing worse than those who downplay terrorism are those who claim it's some sort of government conspiracy. Those people are capable of hurting our cause tremendously in the coming election.

Remember folks, just because the Republicans are assholes doesn't mean that terrorism doesn't exist. Matter of fact, and as we all know, Republican government is pretty much one of the chief causes of terrorism.

[uppityperson]

1. Terrorism exists. All acts of violence are not terrorism. eom

[crim son]

3. How would you categorize the Glasgow Airport incident?

I'm curious.

[uppityperson]

9. 2 things, I don't know enough about it, needs to be investigated& REAL info put out and 2...

I'm not scared, I don't find that scary, any more scary than having a nut with roadrage drive me off a bridge because doesn't like my bumperstickers.

[dipsydoodle]

13. Complete

fucking amateurs is the best description I can think of. That's what makes me smell a rat. It's almost as if the whole issue is a put up job.

[sabbat hunter]

27. amateurs

there are some wannabe terrorists who are 'amateurs' and will look like it when they try to commit acts of terror.

[nolabels]

117. I have noticed that acts of passion that are called amateur later...........

pick up others who wish make the same kind of act exemplary over and over again. Sort of like what goes on in Iraq now also :shrug:

Art Crimes
The Writing on the Wall
http://www.graffiti.org/

[Warpy]

45. Exactly. Right now there are two alternatives

First, the perps are a bunch of wannabes who lack access to the real training camps and materials, or (more likely) wouldn't understand them if they got them. This was a hamfisted attack which accomplished vandalism, not terrorism.

Or second, this is a false flag operation. I mean, how good did it have to be to get Chicken Littles in the US all riled up and paralyzed with fear? Not very, if the responses I've seen today are any indication.

Wake up, people, this was a whole lot of NOTHING as attacks go. Europeans have dealt with real terrorism for decades, and they know that if they give in to fear and stop going about their business as usual, the terrorists win.

It's time Americans caught a clue.

[Breeze54]

90. Stop doing drugs.

[conspirator]

120. amateur, desperate, puny. Definitely not Al Qaeda nt

[kurth]

8. And not all acts of terrorism are aimed at Americans

And I couldn't care less if some asshole blows himself up in Swaziland, or England.

[uppityperson]

12. I care when people try to hurt others, no matter where.

It happens a whole lot all over the world. I just don't see every incident being "terrorism".

[JDPriestly]

18. I totally agree with you.

[Name removed]

91. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[kurth]

97. Let other governments handle their own problems

None of our damn business if some car blows up in Europe or Africa or wherever.

[Name removed]

111. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[spoony]

103. Way to smash those American stereotypes

I guess you're a big fan of the mainstream media then, since they don't usually care what happens elsewhere either.

[Parche]

150. Terra

Exactly, here in Portland we had someone who set fire to trees in a park, and 5-6 different
ones at a time, sending the fire dept to fight them all over....those are not acts of 'terror'
they are arson.

I am so tired of this administration and people labeling everything as terrorism......:mad:

[ixion]

2. sure, that's exactly the point: terrorism exists

it always has, always will. So there's no reason at all to lock ourselves off from the world and live in a police state. That's my point.

[aquart]

89. Not only exists, but IS THE LEAST OF OUR PROBLEMS.

3,000 got killed at once? Been on our highways? Heard about the 18,000 who croak annually from crappy healthcare?

And you ain't seen nothing till flood tides overwhelm our coastlines and force a mass migration of Americans who formerly had homes and jobs.

Terrorism is a phony problem.

[ixion]

125. yep, agreed.

it is a shadow on the wall that we are concerning ourselves with, while outside the cave -- in the REAL world, all hell is breaking loose.

[MonkeyFunk]

4. Because

somehow it's "cool" and enhance your "lib-cred" if you accuse Buschco of masterminding everything that happens.

It's idiotic, but it's a real phenomonon.

[bluerum]

10. * could not master mind his way out of a paper bag. But I cannot help thinking,

that in some tangential way, whoever perpetrated the Glasgow attack did so in part because of US and UK foreign policy.

[WCGreen]

32. Ultimately, they are making a statement about how muslims

are being treated in the UK...

In the US, the Muslim community has a stake in the country through assimilation that is not available to sub groups anywhere else in the world...

Sure the US people can be very xenophobic, but that doesn't stop the market place from rewarding, mostly, people who work hard and plan for their future...

That's why I don't see a homegrown terrorist problem here in the US...

Sure there will always be sporadic outbreaks of violence, but in the US, as long as we nurture an egalitarian approach in our society, any homegrown terrorists will be rare indeed...

No other country in the world is like us in that way...

[knight_of_the_star]

101. Actually to make the point

The home-grown terrorists we have to worry about are more of the nature of xenophobic nutjobs rather than the children of immigrants.

[WCGreen]

102. In a nutshell, pun intended, you are correct.....

[pretzel4gore]

56. bush probably can't even wipe his own arse...

sorry to be crude, but i doubt many DUers credit that moral pervert with anything beyond a viciousness to tiny defenseless animals. But there are FORCES at work in this society, FORCES that can be identified and isolated by the very damage that results from their actions-they are the ones who celebrate the JFK murder, or the A-bombing of Nagasaki, or the way they got away with the gulf/tonkin media lie etc and the entire useless Vietnam war-remember the goddam domino theory?
And they use stupid bush and his ragdoll cheney...and as far as them bush criminals, no one cares why they are hanged, just as long as they are, high and right....their guilt/innocence isn't any concern of mine.
'may god have mercy on their souls' is all anyone needs to say about them...

[RaleighNCDUer]

75. OTOH, accusing Bushco of masterminding everything is

just betting with the odds.

[MonkeyFunk]

84. Only if you work backwards

from the conclusion that he masterminds everything.

Personally, I think he's too addle-pated to tie his own shows, so I think the notion is idiotic.

[ixion]

126. chimpenfurher is only the dopey frontman

there are people who are not-so-addled making plans behind the scenes.

Is that speculation? Sure. But knowing what I know about power (that is corrupts absolutely) I'm pretty comfortable with that speculation.

[Elspeth]

5. Murdoch owns the Times of London, for starters

It was his "Sky News" footage that has been on non-stop replay all day on CNN and MSNBC. The BBC originally reported that there was no suspicion of terrorism. (Later they changed their story).

And this: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1220031

[cgrindley]

22. How about this?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/6257846.stm

You do know that stories change as the situation becomes more clear, right? On 9/11 for example, I remember people spreading rumors of truck bombs on the Mall in Washington.

[pwb]

6. Should we still be afraid of Carlos the jackal?

Does fear add one day to your life?

[bricolage]

7. I agree.

Not everything is controlled by Bush for some political purpose.

But my question is why they haven't struck here. Is it because they haven't been able to? chose not to in order to bolster Bush? are biding their time for a biggie?

[cgrindley]

23. The US doesn't have a huge disaffected Muslim underclass

the UK does.

[Mz Pip]

29. My guess is your 3rd option

But even so, they really don't have to. They are being very successful in bankrupting us, like they did the Soviets, by drawing us into an un-winnable and endless military conflict.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[proud2BlibKansan]

50. Because our president is protecting us!!

:sarcasm:

[POAS]

115. Why limit your options to three?

How about:

4. "They" don't have the ability right now (maybe because "they" aren't such a big bad boogey man afterall).
5. The pickings are easier elsewhere (like Iraq).
6. "They" accomplished their goal, (ie US troops out of Saudi Arabia).
7. Enjoying watching us destroy ourselves over our irrational fear of them.
8. Letting others do the "dirty work" based on the seeds "they" planted in 2001 but the "others" just aren't up to the task yet.

[bricolage]

I consider #5 and #8 possibilities.

I don't know of any politician of either party who says Al Queda isn't a serious threat to attack us again in our mainland.

[bricolage]

138. I consider #5 and #8 possibilities.

I don't know of any politician of either party who says Al Queda isn't a serious threat to attack us again in our mainland.

[stillcool]

11. the boy who cried wolf..

and....false flags.

[whistle]

14. Richard Clarke interview in the video posts suggest Bush's war on terror

...has been a complete and total failure. Clarke says we are no safer today then we were right after 9/11

[JDPriestly]

15. Big leaps from two Asian looking men

to Pakistan to Al Qaeda. The Times may be right, but let's wait a bit before we jump to conclusions. These may be British nationals of Pakistani origin. That is my suspicion just based on my own guessing. They might be loner fanatics. They might be tied to Al Qaeda. This does not appear to be the well organized work of a Bin Laden cell. It is not even as well organized as our homegrown attack in Oklahoma City. It appears to be a "real act of would-be terrorists," and possibly an act of an organized terrorist cell that went awry. It could also be the act of people trying to act like terrorists for some reason. The men are in custody. We will find out a lot before long. Hopefully, the Brown administration in Great Britain will tell the truth about what has happened.

[Elspeth]

17. The Times and Sky News (video footage) are Rupert Murdoch

CNN and other cable outlets have been using Sky's footage all day.

[RestoreGore]

16. Is it becaise the British government knighted Salmon Rushdie?

There have been protests in Pakistan, Britain and other places where revenge has been vowed.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

19. terrorism has been around for a long time (it's just the way it's used by the US government)

[proud2BlibKansan]

20. Some guys wrecked their car at an airport

and it caught fire.

BFD

[cgrindley]

25. You're not going to apologize later, are you?

That's basically what makes me really frustrated with this place. No one ever admits that they were wrong.

[proud2BlibKansan]

37. Wrong about what?

Was there not a car wreck? Did the car not catch on fire? What am I wrong about? I merely stated the facts as we know them so far.

Now if you want to jump to the conclusion that this was a terrorist attack (like Faux) then go ahead. And when YOU are wrong, you can feel free to apologize. I haven't made any incorrect statements, so why in the world should I anticipate the need to apologize?

[cgrindley]

43. Like Faux?

you mean like the Times, the BBC, the Guardian and the Telegraph? Come on. You're wrong.

[proud2BlibKansan]

55. Was it not a car? Were there not a couple guys in it? Did the car not catch on fire

when they crashed it?

What exactly am I wrong about?

I am choosing to wait for more information before I jump on the fear fear fear bandwagon. What is wrong about that?

And FYI, I watched this car fire all day long on three different channels. I am still only convinced that it was a car wreck at an airport and the car caught on fire when it crashed. So far, that is all we know for sure.

Oh I am also sure I am not going to let it ruin my weekend. :)

[cgrindley]

60. Go ahead, put your fingers in your ears

it was a bungled terrorist attack not a car wreck and you know it. I feel like I'm Charleton Heston arguing with Dr Zaius.

[Bluebear]

67. Charleton Heston

...

[cgrindley]

69. Yeah yeah I know

but the image of him arguing with Zaius was just too good. Have you got a better example?

[proud2BlibKansan]

109. I now have this image of Moses in my brain

lighting that jeep in Scotland on fire. Or should I be thinking Abraham . . .

[ixion]

128. you sound like a fear monger, IMO

and you contribute to our collective dementia. thanks a million. :eyes:


Larry Johnson: Glasgow's Burning--Run For Your Lives

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x291514

[ixion]

127. great response

just the facts. The rest is hyperbole.

[Bluebear]

40. .

.

[seriousstan]

21. Because some people have a tough time connecting the dot.

.

[nashville_brook]

24. i think people are sick and tired of having our chains yanked

so, even it is "an act of terrorism" -- we don't care. it's an unspectacular "act of terrorism" and it's apparently being overplayed.

we have answered the wolf-cry too many times. we have terror-fatigue.

[yella_dawg]

26. Many, including myself,

are responding to the hyperactive reporting and hysterical overplay of the London incidents. Many are stunned that this "just happened" to occur on the day Dick Dastardly warned the new British Prime Minister that terrorism is a serious threat. Many have watched the sinister and blatantly illegal activities of our own government until they are skeptical of anything that isn't obviously caused by some other agency.

There are plenty of very good reasons to scoff at the idea that the fuel tank for a backyard barbecue found in the trunk of a car is reason to panic.

[uppityperson]

30. Don't forget those nails. Why would ANYONE have need of nails over the weekend?

Only to use as a weapon. See? I'm done playing on DU today, wanted to say I am in agreement with you on what you write.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

28. Today's Belaboring of The Obvious, in the service of fear:

"He said the vehicle, which would undergo close forensic examination, contained material which was flammable."- from the BBC article.

Outstanding work, Holmes. We have them on the run now.

On edit: If you don't think that there might be some...entities...in the UK who would go to great lengths to bring about an all-pervasive surveillance society, because it means a lot of money for some people, you just have not been paying attention.

Personally, I thing we have been gamed and re-gamed on the whole issue of terrorism and our larger society since 2001.

[Bjornsdotter]

49. Exactly

"Personally, I thing we have been gamed and re-gamed on the whole issue of terrorism and our larger society since 2001"


Best comment I've seen on DU in a long time and I agree, we've been played.

Cheers :toast:

[MrPrax]

76. Right Said...

But I think I got you beat on the BBC quote:

BBC security correspondent Frank Gardner said the suspect device was thought to be a "suicide belt".

Was the suicide belt suppose to go off before or after the suicide Jeep?

...Shurely shome mishtake?!

[proud2BlibKansan]

110. My vehicle contains material which is flammable!

AND I have a lawnmower too. Oh no, will my neighbors be turning me in soon? :scared:

[ixion]

129. I would agree, and would further say it goes back beyond 2001

to, at least, the Gulf of Tonkin or Pearl Harbor, if not before.

[Bluebear]

31. When did you move from Canada to Connecticut? >>>>>>

Your profile and your posts said you were from Canada when you said this:

I'm a straight man and the only way I'd have gay sex is if I was being raped, and I'd rather die than be raped.

--cgrindley

Have you moved? Which candidates will we help lose elections, our American Democratic candidates or your Canadian candidates? Or are you no longer from Canada?

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

34. Hmmm.

Provocative.

[Bluebear]

36. "Never throw away anything."

:)

[cgrindley]

39. Look

I have nothing against you or anyone else having gay sex. It's just not for me. Okay? I support gay marriage. I support full equal rights for gay people across the USA. I just never want to have gay sex. Is that too much to ask? Perhaps I didn't phrase it properly. And for that I am sorry.

[Name removed]

41. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bluebear]

42. Super. So are you from Canada or from Connecticut?

Which candidates are we helping lose?

[cgrindley]

44. I'm Canadian

but I live in the States.

[Bluebear]

46. OK, so when you say we look like idiots, we lose credibility & cost us votes...

you are just offering us heartfelt tips on how we are being perceived. Thank you for clarifying.

[cgrindley]

51. But Kerry lost votes by looking soft on terror

and it doesn't even matter if he wasn't soft on terror (which he wasn't). It was all about how he appeared to the voters.

Whoever goes up against Guiliani will have to face this issue. We don't want to lose anymore of this particular issue than we absolutely have to.

Did you see the Rolling Stone Tiabi story on Cindy Sheehan and the 9/11 conspiracy people that surrounded her? Do you think that helped or hurt the typical democrat running for office?

[Bluebear]

54. Kerry looked soft on terror according to WHOM? nt

[cgrindley]

57. Well, to the people who elected Bush?

Why else would such an idiot have been re-elected except that he looked really good on an issue that people obviously believed Kerry looked weak on?

[Bluebear]

64. So you are thinking Giuliani is a shoo-in I take it?

If terror is THE issue.

[cgrindley]

68. Yeah, and although terror isn't actually the issue, THEY will make it the issue

unless Democrats stay strong on the "war on terror" which as most people have pointedout is a thing that has been going on for ages and isn't going to stop any time soon, then the Republicans will speak about nothing except TERROR and all of our other messages will get lost and we will lose another election (and by lose I mean not win big enough to prevent them cheating and taking it from us).

[uppityperson]

108. hey Bluebear

ask about the "re-elected" part since I think the poster perhaps doesn't read my posts. You know? Thanks

[uppityperson]

107. "re-elected"?

1st time was appointed by the SCOTUS
2nd time, vote fraud perhaps?

[cgrindley]

119. Re-elected = stole an election that was closer than it should have been

Landslides are required to win against people who cheat. Failure to beat a Bush by a landslide is losing to a Bush.

[uppityperson]

143. what I found appalling was not just the cheating and fraud, but that so many people

DID vote for him the second time. Even taking away the fraud, still, too many voted for him.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

61. Where upon, upon election and the passage of time...

The present maladministration has slowly integrated much of the anti-terrorism policy and tactics Kerry said he would use, if elected.

And you seem to think that a Guiliani nom is fait accompli.

Interesting indeed.

[cgrindley]

63. Yeah I do

Mark my words:

Clinton/Obama vs Guiliani/Anti-Christ

[proud2BlibKansan]

112. Cindy Sheehan and 9/11 people?

Gee I am one of her regulars at Camp Casey and I have no idea what you are talking about. Got a link to that article?

[cgrindley]

118. The Matt Tiabi one in Rolling Stone (nt)

[proud2BlibKansan]

139. Gee that helps

Thanks for the link. :eyes:

[proud2BlibKansan]

141. Okay I found that story and read it

There was ONE small part that mentioned some people around a campfire at Camp Casey who talked about 9/11. Then it told about war mongers who were in Crawford who believed Iraq was responsible for 9/11. The author clearly paints BOTH groups as extreme. And when 12,000 people gather, there are bound to be some oddballs.

This is NOT a story about 9/11 conspiracy people surrounding Cindy. You can spin it any way you want, but Cindy is NOT surrounded by 9/11 conspiracy people. The people who surround her want the war to end. Period.

Damn, crap like this is why she stepped down. And instead of ignoring ignorant comments about her, I am going to speak out.

And BTW, Cindy's goal is NOT about getting Democrats elected. She didn't step up to help one party get elected. :eyes:

[spoony]

104. Nice to see you keep files like Nixon and Hoover

You must have a bunch from those teenager boards you skulk about at.

[conscious evolution]

147. Are you accusing BlueBear of pedophilia?

[xchrom]

33. there's the terrorism -- and then there is what those in charge DO

with the terrorism.

chaotic fear won't do one thing to change things.

EXCEPT to make you easily manipulated -- a whole population easily manipulated.

and right now you are looking pretty manipulated.

[Writer]

35. What we must remember - always - is that the "war on terror" did not begin on 9/11/01.

We have been fighting terror by Muslim extremists long before that - at least since 1979 and the fall of the Shah of Iran. It's always been there. Nothing changed on 9/11/01 except for a successful attempt.

And still we lived from 1979 to 2001 safely with our rights intact. And we will continue to live safely for many more years with our civil rights RETURNED.

That should be our message.

[cgrindley]

47. Finally, the voice of reason

absolutely. Yes. Return our rights, but let's not pretend that terrorism doesn't exist. Nor should we pretend that it started on 9/11

[RaleighNCDUer]

82. Nor should we pretend that every act of terror is linked to a vast

global conspiracy of Muslim radical led by Osama Bin Laden.

THAT is as much a myth as anything.

Just like every attack in Iraq being placed at the feet of Al Queda, when perhaps 5% are actually foreign fighters recruited by Bin Laden's organization.

Isn't it interesting that in the 60s and 70s all the terrorists were commies - Beider/Meinhof, Red Brigades, Red Army Faction. Now, there are no commie terrorists, but Muslim terrorists proliferate.

WE ARE BEING PLAYED.

[ixion]

130. since we're not pretending...

let's do the most important thing and NOT pretend that you can actually 'win' a 'war' on terror.

You cannot eliminate an abstraction, because it doesn't really exist. Hence you cannot declare 'war' on an abstraction. Sure, 'terror' is real. People can become 'terrified'. But it is highly illogical to say that one can actually remove terror from landscape of existence. That's just plain silly.

[haele]

146. There is one way of getting rid of a lot of terrorist activity -

Winnow down the reasons that would cause any particular group of people to gather together and inflict terror on another group of people.

But that requires actual concern with and work to correct the roots of, oh, poverty, cultural prejudices, fear for the future...

Way too much time and effort for those with the means to do so. So much easier just spreading chaos about and profiting off it.

Haele

[woo me with science]

121. Excellent post. Thank you. nt

[AzDar]

38. Terrorism, in one form or another, has existed since the beginning

of civilization, hasn't it?

I refuse to live in fear.

[cgrindley]

53. There's a difference between stoic recognition of the inevitable

and denying that anything is going on. Stoic recognition is something I can respect. This head in the sand la la la stuff is beyond me.

[la la]

85. excuse me?

EXCUSE ME??///??

la la la stuff??/??

:wtf:

signed:

la la

[ixion]

131. who is denying anything?

There was a car wreck. There is evidence there may have been malicious intent. Therefore, it is a criminal matter needing investigation. It is not, however, deserving of round the clock coverage, and a new series of unPATRIOTic Acts in order to 'fight' this new 'terrorist' threat.

[mitchum]

48. Burnout from the chimp and the poodle who cried "wolf" ?

[Joe Chi Minh]

52. You can't d anythng about terrorist attacks. It's too late. All you can do

is make sure you have a Democratic Government to protect you, prophylactically (renounce imperialist ambitions), protectively (compare Republican efforts with Democratic measures since put in place, before this Administration and in the pipeline), and remedially (re-establishment of non-imperial relations abroad and reparations for destructive acts of war in foreign countries and general war crimes).

[Fire Walk With Me]

58. Why bomb Scotland?

What did they do to anyone? They make damn fine single-malt scotch and audio gear, and I don't remember them invading any sovereign nations for oil.

[cgrindley]

62. Terrorism frequently doesn't make sense

jesus, Hamas just had their Mickey Mouse character beaten to death on a children's show in order to teach a lesson about matrydom. What do you expect?

[ixion]

132. so you call this thing Hamas did 'terrorism', eh?

hmmmmm... your definition is very broad.

[madrchsod]

80. the men wear skirts.....

[Fire Walk With Me]

81. So you're saying that terrorists are uncomfortable with their sexuality?

And hate killer single-malt scotch and Linn audio products too?

[ixion]

133. *snicker*

:rofl:

[Garbo 2004]

93. Scotland's part of Great Britain which did invade. Or maybe they hated haggis.

Seriously, it wouldn't appear to be the most logical choice of a symbolic target. A matter of opportunity? It's all rather strange. Not comparable to the July 2005 attacks in terms of sophistication and effectiveness.

[DFW]

116. Gordon Brown is from Scotland

Someone wanted to send him a little welcome message, poorly executed as it was.
Glasgow is the airport from which he leaves for London and arrives at when he
visits home.

[Joe Chi Minh]

142. Yes, they probably wanted to concentrate his mind.

[DeSwiss]

59. You ask: Why are some DU'ers downplaying a real act of terrorism?

We know there is terrorism, but the governments involved (US & UK) have lost almost ALL credibility. They've mix lies with truth too many times before....

[Raine]

65. I myself think that cheap food

and toothpaste imported from China are more likely to kill and maim large amounts of Americans than "terrorists" attacks.

[cgrindley]

70. But we're not talking about Americans

why does everything have to revolve around America all the time?

[Raine]

78. OPs true I thought you

meant Americans :blush: seriously being American I'm more worried about other dangers. I voted the correct way in the last election and keeping repubs out of office is the only way I know to fight terrorism internationally that I can do. Here in the US I don't take it real serious cause the MISadministration likes to use the THREAT of terrorism to keep the masses in line. I think the rest of the world has plenty to worry about. It's a real threat to them and nothing that should be sluffed off, made so much worse by chimp's "adventures".

[Catchawave]

66. As an Olbermann "cultist"...

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/06/04/olbermann-the-nexus-of-politics-and-terror-2/

Any questions? :hi:

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

71. It's not "downplaying" terrorism to view the act in its proper perspective.

A couple of incompetent asshats, allegedly with terroristic intent, set a car on fire. It's news, and it's something to keep an eye on in case there are other, similarly intended but more competent asshats out there.

But the fact that some guys set a car on fire in Glasgow does not deserve 24-7 news coverage, nor does it warrant the knickers-wetting terror the media seem to want to inspire in the rest of us. I do not expect to see burning Jeep Cherokees at my local airport, nor do I have reason to.

I do think it interesting that the IRA was blowing shit up in Britain on a fairly regular basis during the '70s, and our government didn't freak out about it. Of course, that was before the Bush Administration and its propaganda organ, Fox Noise, thought it useful to keep us all cringing and subservient.

[cgrindley]

73. No no no, YOU'RE keeping it in perspective, but OTHERS

are claiming that it didn't happen at all. I totally understand and commend your point of view. It's pretty much my point of view. I just don't understand the people who are denying it entirely. Although perhaps that wasn't clear in my OP.

[ixion]

134. I have not seen one -- not ONE -- post claiming that 'nothing happened'

[aquart]

72. It ain't terrorism unless you're terrified.

It only works if the population is scared shitless. Which you want us to be.

Is there any particular reason you feel the need to carry BushCo's water?

Maybe you want to sit down for a minute and think that over.

[cgrindley]

74. I don't think we need to be scared shitless

but we do need to recognize that it in fact happened and that bungled or not, it was a fairly serious attempt at doing some real evil.

[aquart]

87. A little old man with a drivers license and a stroke

Can do more damage...and has. Should we be terrified of little old men in cars? They strike without warning, you know. (Although universal national healthcare might alleviate much of that problem.)

It's just plain stupid to get hysterical over this. It happened. IT WILL HAPPEN AGAIN. We treat other nations like shit, and even if we didn't, SOMEONE STILL WOULDN'T BE HAPPY.

Or do you think I should tremble every time I enter the subway or take an elevator in a tall building?

Shit happens. So does terrorism. HURRICANES DO MORE DAMAGE. What are you doing to protect yourself against the next hurricane?

[Traveling_Home]

77. Ron Paul n/t

[madrchsod]

79. the sky is falling! the sky is falling!

[goodgd_yall]

83. My question is, Why should we assume every reported attempt at acts of terrorism is true?

Are these not used to politically manipulate us? From what I have gleaned so far about these 3 recent acts in the UK, I'm not convinced 1)all 3 were terrorist acts, and 2)if attempted terrorist acts, that they should be taken as seriously as they are, because they appear to be really inept attempts. I will change my mind if I read or hear anything more convincing. But that hasn't happened yet.

[Eurobabe]

114. My question is: who is REALLY behind these ops?

who puts "them" up to it? and why?

I don't believe anything either the UK or US govt. tells us anymore.

[old guy]

86. I have complete respect for your position.

I however approach this a little differently maybe than some. I have changed nothing since 9/11 and I do not intend to change anything I do either. Perhaps if I lived in NY or DC or some other so called prime target area I would feel differently. I don't know. There have been,are now,and will be in the future, terrorist activity in many places in the world. For that I feel bad for those affected. I do not have cable and rarely watch any TV news, so a lot of what they cover 24/7 I get to miss. So I recognize that terrorism exists and that it can exist here in our country, but I cannot do anything about it and to me it would be a waste of time to worry too much about it. As usual, I'm rambling so thats all folks!

[Alexander]

88. They didn't kill anyone, so was it terrorism?

I think if the goal was to incite fear or kill civilians, the perpetrators failed miserably.

[spoony]

105. If I shoot you, and you don't die, what's the big deal?

Failure at an intended crime is good luck, not an acquittal.

[Alexander]

122. If you shot at me, missed by a mile, and the gun knocked you on your ass,

I definitely wouldn't be as concerned as if you shot me.

These guys were incompetent. They'd probably have trouble hitting the broad side of a barn with any kind of weapon.

[ClassWarfare2008]

92. Terrorism exists, Al Qaeda doesn't.

But I doubt the IRA is back in business, so this was probably a false flag operation, meant as a "housewarming present" for Mr. Brown.

[Malikshah]

94. Why are some donning their Chicken Little Suits. Here's a cold dose of reality for the OP

Terrorism exists and will continue to exist as long as humans exist.

Define terrorism first and then see how many fit into that definition.

Find out what causes terrorism to come about among humans and fight the causes. If you only try and put out the fires as they crop up, you will surely cause more to erupt while you run around.

As to the recent events in the UK.

Wait a week or two--if we are lucky...it could be more than that with the record of the US and UK over the last six years. Maybe...if we are lucky, the truth will come out with the details.


Then, if we are lucky and the details can be proven we can assess the situation. To get one's knickers in a twist to condemn, yell, scream, rant and rave does absolutely no good. Demanding a thorough investigation of the matter and holding all, including the media and government agencies to the same level of scrutiny as we feel we should against the terrorists would put everyone in good stead.

Until then--keep calm and live one's life, seeking to make my first statement incorrect.

At this point--the constant railing and gnashing of teeth only serves to make my first statement immutable.

[AlCzervik]

95. "Some Du'ers"="Some people" Survey says-----XXX like we need you to tell

there is terrorisim in the world.

[spoony]

106. Look at the blind monkey acts in this thread

It's fairly obvious that some DUers DO need reminding. I especially love the "duh it didn't happen here I don't care" variety.

[lligrd]

96. I Hardly Think We Have The Right To Whine About A Little

terrorism while we are perpetuating even more of it.

[TwilightGardener]

98. Agreed. It's a real threat. Neither side should politicize terrorism.

I've been saying this on DU for a while. Imagine the general voting public reading DU and concluding that Democrats in general don't take terrorism seriously. That could be extrapolated to include our politicians and candidates as well--a sure loser in elections. Rudy wins!

[Rex]

99. We?

You must love throwing those stones. Arm strong yet?

[devilgrrl]

100. Because some think it's okay to hang our laundry outside to dry?

:sarcasm:

oooooooh bugga bugga bugga - I'm :scared::scared::scared::scared::scared::scared:

:eyes::eyes::eyes:

[Duppers]

113. ...

:applause:

[ima_sinnic]

123. the sky is falling the sky is falling the sky is falling the sky is fallilng

and from this point forward I will live my life from under my bed.

feel better now?

[datasuspect]

124. despite the programming of the bush cabal

terrorism is actually not the WORST possible thing.

it's been around forever.

i'm more scared of government sanctioned genocide.

THAT is truly despicable.

[Aviation Pro]

135. Because we are now in the....

..."cried wolf" mode. After watching Sicko last night I'm pretty convinced I know who the real terror faction is in this country. (Hint, it's the two fuckers and their minions who staged a bloodless coup 'd etat in December of 2000).

[Stephanie]

136. "we look like idiots and we lose credibility" "hurting our cause"

no comment necessary.

[AngryOldDem]

137. Because some just know more than others.

And I think it's a tragic waste that they apparently decide not to share their wisdom with the rest of the world, but keep it on a message board. They could make such a difference in the lives of millions.

Britain has long been a prime breeding ground for terrorists. That said, though, I suspect we'll be seeing more of this, homegrown or not, amateurish or not. Things are deteriorating that rapidly, I think.

[HardRocker05]

140. i "downplay" it because i don't care about terrorism, real or imagined. i am a lot more likely

to die prematurely from a preventable/treatable illness that i can't afford to see adoctor for than i am to die in a terrorist attack. it's pretty simple.

[libertypirate]

144. They lied to start the war in Iraq...

And historically governments have committed more acts of terrorism then any rouge disenchanted underprivileged group of fundamentalists.

If you think we can look any worse then killing a half million people, your a tool!

Oh and historically shit seems to get swept under, and if it's not in a sound bite most of you will just ignore it. Intellectual curiosity is dying because; as George Carlin said "The American dream because you have to be asleep to achieve it", which is what happens when people lack the curiosity to question everything they think they already believe.

About the roots of t-errorism...

U.K. file on Entebbe contains claim that Israel behind hijacking
Newly released British documents contain a claim by an unnamed contact that the Shin Bet security service collaborated with the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine to hijack the June 1976 flight from Israel that was diverted to Entebbe, Uganda, the BBC reported Friday.
....
"The operation was designed to torpedo the PLO's standing in France and to prevent what they see as a growing rapprochement between the PLO and the Americans," the BBC report said British diplomat D.H. Colvin wrote in the document, citing his source.
....
The document was written on June 30, 1976, three days after the hijacking and prior to the rescue operation.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/865937.html

[alcibiades_mystery]

145. It's terrorism, but terrorism isn't all the same

These clowns with their petrol bombs are not the same as the people that blew a hole in the USS Cole, or the 9/11 hijackers, or the Molotov cocktail throwing anarchist. Nor are the acts the same. The key principle here is discernment. If we smear everything with the 9/11 brush, then everything seems like a grave threat. This is nonsense. Europe, many Americans forget, has lived with 100 years of varying forms of terrorism in a number of waves, from anarchist bombers and the assassination waves of the early 1900, through the various Leftist and government false flag operations of the 1970's (the Red Brigades, etc.). Americans act as if terrorism is new, and the Number One Problem in the World. It is not. It's not even that dangerous, relatively speaking. In a society with cars, you have to deal with car accidents, as a structural necessity. In a global economy with relatively minimal checks on everyday life and marked political conflict, you have to deal with terrorism, as a structural necessity. Does that mean we ignore it? Of course not. Does it mean we downplay it? Of course not. But we also don't go all hysterical and chicken-without-a-head anytime it happens. Hysterical responses to terrorism actually feed terrorism, as we've learned. And, quite frankly, the notion that the events in Britain over the past few days requires immediate drastic action is a hysterical response, and that's the goddamn truth of it, elections be damned. And the failure to develop a nuanced response to terrorism, which - at the very least - marks distinctions in threat and sophistication between, say, the events of 9/11 and the inept "attacks" of this weekend, well, that's hysterical to, and utterly counterproductive. And that's the truth of it, elections be damned.

[Louie the XIV]

148. Excellent Post

Downplaying real terroroist attacks just feeds into the O'Lielly, Hannity liberals don't care about the war on terror bs.

[AZBlue]

149. It's their way of minimizing it so it's not as scary for them.

I've said this many times on this site - it's a scary thing to realize you can be blown apart just by going about your daily life. So, some have to make fun of it and belittle it and pretend it's just a conspiracy by Bush & Co. Certainly the Bush cabal has used terrorism to their advantage, but that doesn't mean it's not real.

Thank you for your post!

[mvd]

151. It's not like it's no threat, but it's much less of a..

threat than they are saying. If anything, it is our actions in Iraq that have raised the threat level a bit. But they still want us to live our lives in fear of something that will most likely never affect us personally. And if you believe the attackers needed help on 9/11, like I do, then foreign terrorism is less of a fear.

The latest threat in England is from a group that sounds like an Al-Qaeda wannabe group.