Why isn't Biden #1 in the polls? I'm listening to him now on cspan.

[napi21]

He's right on everything he says, and he's got more experience than any of the other candidates!

Don't give me the crap about the bankruptcy bill either! There was only one problem with that bill, and that was that it didn't give an exemption for medical related losses. The basis of the bill was needed.

I would love to see a President Biden!

[Webster Green]

1. Ralph Nader is right on everything he says too!

I would vote for him before Biden.

[pinto]

9. I wouldn't. But back to the OP's point. Biden's doing a good job,

imo, and is speaking to the issues primarily from a legislative POV, as a Senator. I think he has a good voice in our mix.

[mucifer]

11. Why nader and not Kucinich?

Kucinich has much more political experience being a congressman and a mayor and he has stood up to big business. Why does nader need to run?

[Webster Green]

25. I voted for Dennis in 2004, and I will vote for him again this time..

I did vote for Nader in 2000. I live in a "safe state" (CA), and I think we need more than the two major parties, but third party voting is very dangerous without some sort of instant run-off system.

Biden is a slick talker with his ear to the wind, but I don't trust him. I go with my gut, and there's something about him that gives me the willies.

[merh]

2. Maybe because he is seen as the same as what is

for me, it is his separatist shit for Iraq, dividing it into 3 zones. As if it is our right to do that against the will of those who are trying to unite Iraq as a democracy that can funtion.

.

[frogcycle]

7. listen to his explanation

I saw the CSPAN thing - he nailed it.

And, by the way, NOBODY but gwb is even pretending to try to "unite" iraq as a democracy - what the HELL are you smoking????

[RufusTFirefly]

23. How are we ever going to unite those Protestants, Catholics, and Jews....

... into an American democracy?

Do you actually know anyone from Iraq? Inter-marriage between these "mortal enemies" is fairly common.
Imagine if someone invaded our country and kicked all the Protestants out of power and replaced them with Catholics.
Think there wouldn't be some resentment between the Protestants and Catholics? Think it wouldn't escalate to the level of a civil war if the stakes were high enough? Know any Protestants who are married to Catholics, or vice versa?

There you go.

[frogcycle]

24. yes, I know several people from Iraq

and you just described perfectly what created the mess
now that you've gotten them all fighting, your solution is...?

[merh]

27. See post 26, it would seem that the Biden fan isn't informed

as to what has actually been happening in Iraq and how there is an effort to unite Iraq and protect the nation's interests and not sell them off as quickly as US Big Oil would like.

The only benchmark this admin cares about is the oil distribution legislation and the nationalists (for a united Iraq) are trying to see that Iraq doesn't trade away it's profits and rights.

.

[merh]

26. Do some damn reading as to what is going in the Iraqi

parliament. Educate yourself, would ya. Read more than what is easy, do some research to find out what is going on in Iraq as reported by other nations and as reported beyond what it is our politicians whant us to know. Here are few articles to start with.

Feb 28, 2007
THE ROVING EYE
US's Iraq oil grab is a done deal
By Pepe Escobar

"By 2010 we will need 50 million barrels a day. The Middle East, with two-thirds of the oil and the lowest cost, is still where the prize lies." - US Vice President Dick Cheney, then Halliburton chief executive officer, London, autumn 1999

US President George W Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney might as well declare the Iraq war over and out. As far as they - and the humongous energy interests they defend - are concerned, only now is the mission really accomplished. More than half a trillion dollars spent and perhaps half a million Iraqis killed have come down to this.

On Monday, Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki's cabinet in Baghdad approved the draft of the new Iraqi oil law. The government regards it as "a major national project". The key point of the law is that Iraq's immense oil wealth (115 billion barrels of proven reserves, third in the world after Saudi Arabia and Iran) will be under the iron rule of a fuzzy "Federal Oil and Gas Council" boasting "a panel of oil experts from inside and outside Iraq". That is, nothing less than predominantly US Big Oil executives.

The law represents no less than institutionalized raping and pillaging of Iraq's oil wealth. It represents the death knell of nationalized (from 1972 to 1975) Iraqi resources, now replaced by production sharing agreements (PSAs) - which translate into savage privatization and monster profit rates of up to 75% for (basically US) Big Oil. Sixty-five of Iraq's roughly 80 oilfields already known will be offered for Big Oil to exploit. As if this were not enough, the law reduces in practice the role of Baghdad to a minimum. Oil wealth, in theory, will be distributed directly to Kurds in the north, Shi'ites in the south and Sunnis in the center. For all practical purposes, Iraq will be partitioned into three statelets. Most of the country's reserves are in the Shi'ite-dominated south, while the Kurdish north holds the best prospects for future drilling.

The approval of the draft law by the fractious 275-member Iraqi Parliament, in March, will be a mere formality. Hussain al-Shahristani, Iraq's oil minister, is beaming. So is dodgy Barnham Salih: a Kurd, committed cheerleader of the US invasion and occupation, then deputy prime minister, big PSA fan, and head of a committee that was debating the law.

But there was not much to be debated. The law was in essence drafted, behind locked doors, by a US consulting firm hired by the Bush administration and then carefully retouched by Big Oil, the International Monetary Fund, former US deputy defense secretary Paul Wolfowitz' World Bank, and the United States Agency for International Development. It's virtually a US law (its original language is English, not Arabic).

Scandalously, Iraqi public opinion had absolute no knowledge of it - not to mention the overwhelming majority of Parliament members. Were this to be a truly representative Iraqi government, any change to the legislation concerning the highly sensitive question of oil wealth would have to be approved by a popular referendum.

~snip~

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/IB28Ak01.html

Majority of Iraqi Lawmakers Now Reject Occupation
By Raed Jarrar and Joshua Holland, AlterNet. Posted May 9, 2007.

More than half of the members of Iraq's parliament rejected for the first time on Tuesday the continuing occupation of their country. The U.S. media ignored the story.

On Tuesday, without note in the U.S. media, more than half of the members of Iraq's parliament rejected the continuing occupation of their country. 144 lawmakers signed onto a legislative petition calling on the United States to set a timetable for withdrawal, according to Nassar Al-Rubaie, a spokesman for the Al Sadr movement, the nationalist Shia group that sponsored the petition.

It's a hugely significant development. Lawmakers demanding an end to the occupation now have the upper hand in the Iraqi legislature for the first time; previous attempts at a similar resolution fell just short of the 138 votes needed to pass (there are 275 members of the Iraqi parliament, but many have fled the country's civil conflict, and at times it's been difficult to arrive at a quorum).

Reached by phone in Baghdad on Tuesday, Al-Rubaie said that he would present the petition, which is nonbinding, to the speaker of the Iraqi parliament and demand that a binding measure be put to a vote. Under Iraqi law, the speaker must present a resolution that's called for by a majority of lawmakers, but there are significant loopholes and what will happen next is unclear.

What is clear is that while the U.S. Congress dickers over timelines and benchmarks, Baghdad faces a major political showdown of its own. The major schism in Iraqi politics is not between Sunni and Shia or supporters of the Iraqi government and "anti-government forces," nor is it a clash of "moderates" against "radicals"; the defining battle for Iraq at the political level today is between nationalists trying to hold the Iraqi state together and separatists backed, so far, by the United States and Britain.

The continuing occupation of Iraq and the allocation of Iraq's resources -- especially its massive oil and natural gas deposits -- are the defining issues that now separate an increasingly restless bloc of nationalists in the Iraqi parliament from the administration of Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, whose government is dominated by Shiite, Sunni and Kurdish separatists.

By "separatists," we mean groups who oppose a unified Iraq with a strong central government; key figures like Maliki of the Dawa party, Shia leader Abdul Aziz Al-Hakeem of the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq ("SCIRI"), Vice President Tariq Al-Hashimi of the Sunni Islamic Party, President Jalal Talabani -- a Kurd -- and Masoud Barzani, president of the Kurdish Autonomous Region, favor partitioning Iraq into three autonomous regions with strong local governments and a weak central administration in Baghdad. (The partition plan is also favored by several congressional Democrats, notably Sen. Joe Biden of Delaware.)

Iraq's separatists also oppose setting a timetable for ending the U.S. occupation, preferring the addition of more American troops to secure their regime. They favor privatizing Iraq's oil and gas and decentralizing petroleum operations and revenue distribution.

But public opinion is squarely with Iraq's nationalists. According to a poll by the University of Maryland's Project on International Public Policy Attitudes, majorities of all three of Iraq's major ethno-sectarian groups support a unified Iraq with a strong central government. For at least two years, poll after poll has shown that large majorities of Iraqis of all ethnicities and sects want the United States to set a timeline for withdrawal, even though (in the case of Baghdad residents), they expect the security situation to deteriorate in the short term as a result.

That's nationalism, and it remains the central if unreported motivation for many Iraqis, both within the nascent government and on the streets.

While sectarian fighting at the neighborhood and community level has made life unlivable for millions of Iraqis, Iraqi nationalism -- portrayed as a fiction by supporters of the invasion -- supercedes sectarian loyalties at the political level. A group of secular, Sunni and Shia nationalists have long voted together on key issues, but so far have failed to join forces under a single banner.


http://www.alternet.org/story/51624/

Iraqi Lawmakers Pass Resolution That May Force End to Occupation
By Raed Jarrar and Joshua Holland, AlterNet. Posted June 5, 2007.

While most observers are focused on the U.S. Congress as it continues to issue new rubber stamps to legitimize Bush's permanent designs on Iraq, nationalists in the Iraqi parliament -- now representing a majority of the body -- continue to make progress toward bringing an end to their country's occupation.

The parliament today passed a binding resolution that will guarantee lawmakers an opportunity to block the extension of the U.N. mandate under which coalition troops now remain in Iraq when it comes up for renewal in December. Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, whose cabinet is dominated by Iraqi separatists, may veto the measure.

~snip~

http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/53230/

Sadr bloc joins Sunnis in rejecting Iraq oil law
by Joseph Krauss
Thu Jul 5, 8:25 AM ET

BAGHDAD (AFP) - Followers of Iraqi Shiite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr on Thursday joined a growing chorus of Sunni Arab, Kurdish and Shiite opposition to a draft oil law backed by Washington.

His opposition, apparently motivated by anger at the idea of US and British oil firms snapping up contracts after their countries invaded Iraq, promises to feed a fierce debate but will not necessarily derail the legislation.

"You cannot have both the Kurds and the Sadrists on the outside," said Joost Hiltermann, Iraq analyst at the International Crisis Group. Nevertheless, "the oil law is one of the benchmarks that has a chance of success. It may not require the agreement of the Sadrists if there is agreement between the Supreme Council, the Dawa Party, and the Kurds."

"This is the same coalition that has essentially ruled Iraq since January 2005," Hiltermann added, referring to the Supreme Iraqi Islamic Council, a powerful Shiite party, and Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki's Dawa party.

<snip>

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070705/wl_mideast_afp/iraqoileconomy

Here is a great site to check from time to time http://www.iraqupdates.com/p_articles.php/ln/1/page/1

Oh and having a different opinion than your's does not equate to smoking, it just may mean I read different sources and have considered different sides to the story.

:hi:

[frogcycle]

36. sorry - seen all that

my point was not that they like our occupation, but that they are not about to actually form a "democracy that can function" as you put it. Like the one in Afghanistan? That's really working out. Some sort of self-rule? of course. Some sort of oligarchy. Or devolve into a dictatorship, or an islamic state. A coalition? maybe, but not likely

we need to get the hell out and let them solve it politically. if we can do that by just walking away and the madness calms (which I think it just might) then Biden's approach is overkill. but if walking away leaves the wackos whacking away and the nascent government cowering powerless to stop it, then we should have facilitated some damned means of sending everyone to neutral corners before walking. You have a lot of confidence in those reports, and "Great Expectations" for a successor Iraqi government to succeed. I fervently hope you're right. Bosnia/Serbia/Croatia is the model Biden is basing his approach on, and it worked out pretty well. The killing stopped, the parties were separated, and now, ten years later, they are reuniting. One additional factor is indeterminate levels of continuing outside mischief-makers aside from the US trying to assure that it does not calm down. If the ten year cooling-off is not needed in Iraq, well, great.

[merh]

38. You didn't read it, the nationalists are gaining strength and

have evolved from "non-binding" resolutions to "binding resolutions" -- they are uniting their nation, despite efforts of the US which Biden supports, to separate them, divide them. Their largest union, the Oil workers union, is behind the nationalists, what the hell does that tell you. The nationalists want timetables and want us out of their nation. The only comparision that can be made to Afghanistan is that our government backed and is backing the current Afghanistan government that is failing, you know the same folks backing the separatist in Iraq are backing the Afghanistan government. What's that tell ya?

It is their nation and they have the right to govern it as they please, as their majority dictates. It is not our place to tell them how to govern their nation. IT IS NOT OUR PLACE TO TELL THEM HOW TO GOVERN THEMSELVES. The mischief makers are there, trying to make it fail because WE ARE THERE. We built it and they came.

Good God almighty, it is not our place to tell the Iraqis how to live and it is not our oil.

[frogcycle]

49. we are in violent agreement on your last sentence

and if the hints of progress are real, I am thrilled

the old "first do no harm" ship sailed a long time ago. Now we need to get the fuck out of their country whilst doing the least additional harm

Despite your disagreement with what will best do that, what Biden described, thoughtfully and reasonably, with obvious concern for the citizens being most hurt by the situation, was a means that worked to deal with a mess we actually did NOT create in the former Yugoslavia.

The thing our 30-second-sound-bite campaigns do not provide is an opportunity to actually get to know the candidates, understand how they think. Some of them, unfortunately have come to just think in 30-second sound bites. In ~ two hours last night Biden showed me he is a thinking, caring person who wants to get it right. That, more than anything, is what I am looking for in a candidate. A sound bite can be appealing, or it can be objectionable. I want someone whom I can at least hope would not be a zealot for a position if shown its fallacy. You seem to have concluded because he proposes "further meddling" to bring it to an end, that he supports the imperialist aims that started it. I think that is far from the truth.

[merh]

51. Then I suggest BIden go talk to the leaders of the nationalist party

and find out the real poop and not simply believe what our State Department is dispensing (gosh, wouldn't that be a surprise, that they were giving out false or biased intel?) - From all I have read, the nationalists want to unite the nation and the citizens have faith in their own army and their police.

The last article seems to prove that they are uniting against what we want and for the good of their nation.

BAGHDAD (AFP) - Followers of Iraqi Shiite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr on Thursday joined a growing chorus of Sunni Arab, Kurdish and Shiite opposition to a draft oil law backed by Washington.

Biden supports the separatist that is opposing the nationalist, it is that simple.

What will best help the Iraqis? The US must leave and stop telling them how to govern. If I own a bar and if you come in with your friends and trash my bar, I expect you to pay the damages, not stick around to tell me how to fix it.

The UN is involved in Iraq, if we left, the UN Peace Keeping forces could help the Iraqis if the need the help. I'd venture to guess that other nations would provide troops that are not involved in Iraq today, some folks have real problems helping the invading continue to occupy the nation it illegally invaded and occupied.

The Iraqis have the right to govern as they deem fit, we do not have the right to tell them how to govern. Should all this shake out and they chose a dictator, that is their business. They are not our colony or our child, we don't own them and they are smart people that know their own people better than we do.

We need to leave and from all I have read, the nationalist seem to be willing and anxious to unite their nation for the good of the nation. That is opposite what Biden suggests, no matter how eloquently he states his plan, if it is not the will of the people then it suxs.

.

[merh]

54. A new development to add to the silly notion that the Iraqis

do want to govern, without our interference.

Iraqi lawmaker quits energy panel over oil law
Sat Jul 7, 2007 10:04AM EDT
BAGHDAD, July 7 (Reuters) - A member of Iraq's parliamentary energy committee quit on Saturday in protest over a draft oil law, which Washington hopes will help ease violence between Iraq's warring Shi'ite and Sunni Arabs.

Usama al-Nujeyfi told a small news conference that the proposal would cede too much control to global companies and "ruin the country's future". He vowed to work to defeat the draft in parliament.

~snip~

But al-Nujeyfi, a Sunni member of the Iraq National List, headed by secular politician and former interim prime minister Iyad Allawi, said the proposal would cede too much to foreign firms eager to rebuild Iraq's oil industry.

"I call on my lawmaker brothers and sisters to confront this law which will ruin the country's future and will be in the interest of large global companies at the expense of Iraqis," he said.


http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSKHA742545

Discussion in LBN here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2907623

Seriously, Biden needs to find out for himself what the Iraqis want. The entire notion of supporting separatists over nationalists appears, on its face, dishonest if one is supporting a democratic and unified Iraq.

[merh]

57. here is a new development

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2908039&mesg_id=2908039

[Robbien]

3. Biden and the bankruptcy bill both huge gifts to corporate elite

If you like the bankruptcy bill, you will love love love Biden.

[Selatius]

10. He's a credit card/banker company whore.

Even Joe Lieberman voted against the bill.

[napi21]

16. I've personally experienced the bad side of bankruptcy.

I went to court in persuit of a creditor of the co. I worked for. I was standing in the hall outside of the court room when I heard the guy who was the creditor say "I know we'll get protection today. I already have plans to open several new stores in two months. If they fail, no big deal. I'll just file bankruptcy again. What a deal!"

Sorry folks, if that doesn't bother you, that's too bad! It sure bothered me! Yes I did support the bill!

[Robbien]

21. That is because store owners did get protection in the bankruptcy bill

the only people who did not get protection was the individual.

So you hate the little guy who got hurt by the bill because you hear the store owners got bankruptcy protection. What kind of blame the victim game are you playing?

[napi21]

40. I don't understand the bill that way. Individuals who have small

incomes (under $35,000) still can claim bankruptcy under chapter 7. The only individuals that can't, and have to repay their bills are those who can. No I don't think $35,000 is making a lot of money, but it's not poor either.

[Robbien]

42. Bankruptcy under chapter 7 means liquidation of all your assets

and have to start over again with nothing. Businesses can declare bankruptcy, keep their assets and keep right on going.

Look, the bankruptcy bill ins and outs have been discussed over and over again. No sense in repeating it. The bill kept all the old protections for businesses and made sure the individual got hit and hit hard. I volunteer for a help center and can tell you endless stories about the increase in volume and devastation this bill has caused the lower/mid end of the working class and those who have been hit with huge medical expenses.

Your original question is why don't people like Biden. Biden and his support of the bankruptcy bill are exactly where they should be, eating dust at the back of the pack.

[bread_and_roses]

59. exactly. and I hope he chokes on the dust (n/t)

[KT2000]

34. But Obama voted against

the 30% cap on credit card interest according to a article in 12/06 Harper's.
Why did he do that?

[Robbien]

44. Don't know but it doesn't surprise me

Obama is very lobby friendly.

[maximusveritas]

53. Because that cap is not as good as the one his state already had

and it would have over-ridden it. Other Democratic Senators from states with better caps voted the same way. Harpers was probalby too busy doing a hit piece to bother finding the reason.

[KT2000]

55. Thanks for the info

that has been bothering me.

[trumad]

4. LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sM19YOqs7hU

[JI7]

17. did you catch is Obama is an articulate clean black man line ?

[frogcycle]

22. yeah, it was stupid but not malicious

[RufusTFirefly]

30. Yeah, and it's a good thing he mentioned "clean"

Otherwise, we'd be focusing on the all-too-common, incredibly offensive "articulate" line.

[TheFarseer]

5. I don't mind Biden

I don't think he is populist enough for me but he does make alot of sense on foreign policy. He's the only candidate that has a real plan for Iraq. IMO he was forced to vote for the bankruptcy bill because alot of his constituency works for a credit card company.

[mucifer]

6. Biden sure can yell in congress

I have insomnia and sometimes turn on cspan to help me sleep. One night I fell asleep and woke up an hour later to someone screaming "MR PRESIDENT HOW CAN YOU DO...?" I really don't remember what he was yelling at bush about I was half asleep. But, it was Biden. Everyone else just puts me to sleep.

Actually, I think Kucinich is a better candidate. Single Payer Health Care, a new department of peace. end the war now, etc. But, I probably DID sleep through his speech.

[frogcycle]

8. listen to Biden on health care

its in the CSPAN town meeting from Monday in Iowa

he makes TONS of sense. A plan to actually get there, not just idealogy

[eridani]

14. Right. Like Clinton in 1993

Leave private insurance in the mix so they can keep denying our claims.

[frogcycle]

19. no...

I repeat: listen to him

[Jane Austin]

12. Because he is beholden to all the credit card companies and huge corpoerations

that are headquartered in Delaware.

He knows a lot about foreign relations, but I hold him partly responsible for confirming Alito by hogging the microphone with stunts when he had five minutes to nail the guy as a radicaol.

He doesn't keep his eye on the ball.

[frogcycle]

13. see my comments when I watched it earlier:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3361286&mesg_id=3361286

[melody]

15. I like what Biden says ... I just wish he walked the walk a little more n/t

[RufusTFirefly]

32. Exactly!

There's a serious chasm between what Biden says and what Biden does.

This points to the value of a voting record. Even Gov. Dean (whom I supported) could say that he opposed the war in Iraq. And yet, he never had to cast a vote on the floor of Congress either way.

[Carolina]

50. Touche

He's all talk. Following the Democratic Debate/Clyburn Fish Fry weekend in SC, Joe was asked what he would do if Bush didn't sign the budget bill with the benchmarks included. Caught on camera, Biden assured the questioner, he'd ram it down Bush's throat.

Course he was later mute and voted for the second bill ... ya know, the one without benchmarks.

Biden likes attention, being before cameras and being part of the Washington elite.

He talks a good talk. PERIOD.

[RufusTFirefly]

18. Just a guess but...

...maybe it's because he's a publicity seeking blowhard, who occasionally asks tough questions (loudly) but ultimately, inevitably knuckles under and votes with the status quo.

Then again, I could be wrong.

[frogcycle]

20. go watch him sitting down with the G/L group in Iowa

and talking with them, listening to them, explaining positions, and you might just do a doubletake

I did

[U4ikLefty]

28. Well he IS "clean and articulate"...LOL!!!

couldn't resist.

[RufusTFirefly]

31. Yes, but how's his rhythm? n/t

[U4ikLefty]

35. LOL....prolly not as good as Obama's....did I say that???

Luckily, I'm not gonna be Pres anytime soon...just like Biden.

[funflower]

29. Biden has no integrity. He is screaming about the Libby business

because that's where the wind is blowing right now. "Call the White House" my eye. Like the White House gives a damn about a few phone calls.

[TahitiNut]

33. Leans to business instead of jobs.

Rated 83% in 2005-6 by Campaign for America's Future on energy legislation when 100% was easily met by Clinton, Kucinich, Dodd, Lieberman, and Obama.

Just a bit "shy" on Civil Liberties ...

Senator Biden supported the interests of the American Civil Liberties Union 92 percent in 2005-2006.

Senator Biden supported the interests of the American Civil Liberties Union 86 percent in 2003-2004.

On the votes that the American Civil Liberties Union considered to be the most important in 2001-2002, Senator Biden voted their preferred position 60 percent of the time.

On the votes that the American Civil Liberties Union considered to be the most important in 2000, Senator Biden voted their preferred position 57 percent of the time.

Senator Biden supported the interests of the Concerned Women for America 60 percent in 2000. (I regard anything over 40% as disgusting with this right-wing front group. Dodd:20, Lieberman:33, Kennedy:20, Kerry:0, Collins:60, Snowe:60, Hagel:60)

He's a bit weak in his Government Reform (i.e. anti-corruption) ratings by a group I respect highly ...

Senator Biden supported the interests of the U.S. Public Interest Research Group 82 percent in 2006.

Senator Biden supported the interests of the U.S. Public Interest Research Group 77 percent in 2005.

Senator Biden supported the interests of the U.S. Public Interest Research Group 85 percent in 2004.

There's more at http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can_id=53279
Other sites and organizations can offer similar rating summaries.


Don't get me wrong ... he's no DINO and far better than Lieberman ans very slightly better than Clinton. I prefer Kucinich and Edwards, and put Biden about equal to Richardson.

[mtowngman]

37. why isn't he #1 in the polls may have something to do with him

being an insider. he's accumulated some baggage over the years, put his foot in his mouth more than once. I even remember a plagiarism rap against him years ago. His credibility is questionable and as a result, may not be one to unite the party. Some Dems even consider him a Lieberman-like not really democrat.

[RufusTFirefly]

39. Will Neil Kinnock endorse Biden?

Inquiring minds want to know.

And we can be sure that Biden won't land the highly coveted so-called "Slurpee Voters":

"In Delaware, the largest growth in population is Indian Americans — moving from India. You cannot go to a 7-11 or a Dunkin' Donuts unless you have a slight Indian accent. I'm not joking." -- Joe Biden, July 2006

[Horse with no Name]

41. He says all kinds of progressive stuff

Then votes with the Republicans.
That's what's wrong with Biden.

[asthmaticeog]

43. Once he overcomes the whole "he fucking totally sucks" problem, he'll shoot right to the top!

:patriot:

[Richard Steele]

48. Thomas Jefferson by 8 points, post-resurrection!

[elocs]

45. Damn! I thought it was Kucinich who is right on everything. I can't keep up. n/t

[provis99]

46. Biden's ok, but that hair has to go...

[Bluebear]

47. I will never forgive him for his supporting that odious bankruptcy bill nt

[Matsubara]

52. Because he's a hair-plug havin', war-supportin', sold-out corporate whore asshole?

Because his biggest contributor, MBNA, in addition to buying his vote for the middle-class-crushing bankruptcy bill, put his son on a 6 figure retainer to do next to nothing, right out of college?

Because he's smarmy and insincere?

Because he's run over and over again since the 80's and everyone's sick to death of him?

Because he does that annoying thing where he shmoozes people he's supposed to be grilling?

"I like you, you're a straight shooter."


How's that for a start?

[Vinca]

56. I'm sorry . . . it IS the bankruptcy bill. Not only did he not make

exception for medical expenses, he allowed the thieves to have carte blanche to charge whatever usurious rate they can bleed out of the people and charge whatever extra fees they can dream up. In addition to that, I don't necessarily want a president who responds with the phrase "Thanks, man."

[fishwax]

58. I don't think the bankruptcy bill was needed

and it's certainly a big part of why I haven't been able to fully get behind him.