70-Year Old Grandma Arrested For Not Watering Her Lawn. In Utah.

[DeSwiss]

Woman Arrested for Not Watering Lawn

KSL.com NewsRadio
July 6th, 2007 @ 10:00pm
By Sam Penrod



Orem, Utah - A widow and grandma spent the morning in jail, arrested for refusing to give a policeman her name when he tried writing her a ticket for failing to water her yard. The woman hasn't watered her lawn in more than a year, and the condition of her yard violates an Orem zoning ordinance. Tonight, the woman says she is traumatized and shocked that she was hauled to jail, just because she says she can't afford to water her lawn.

Betty Perry says, "I never thought they would ever do anything like that to a person that is 70 years old. I've never bothered anybody, I've never hurt anybody." She says the policeman who brought her home tonight was very courteous, even held open the door for her. But there were no gentlemen there when she was taken from her home this morning and booked into jail.

When Betty Perry heard a knock at her door and saw a police officer standing outside, she never imagined she would end up in jail. That's what happened, though, when the officer tried enforcing Orem's nuisance ordinance against neglected yards. "I didn't want to tell him anything until I talked to a lawyer or my son. I wanted to see what he'd tell me to do. I've never had any experience before with the law, ever in my life," she said.

As the enforcement officer started writing her a ticket, she tried going back in her house. That's when the officer tried to handcuff her for refusing to give her name and resisting the ticket. She tripped on the steps, scraping up her nose and elbows, leaving blood on her door, her porch and her clothes. Perry was handcuffed, fingerprinted and put in a jail cell, where she sat for more than an hour. "I laid down in there. I never seen the inside of a jail before. I didn't know how it looked, I was really scared," she says.

more: http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=1444771

What. In. The. Hell. Is. Wrong. With.
These. Stupid-Ass. Police???

[TheBaldyMan]

1. and Dubya just used up this year's clemency ration on Scooter

no reduction of sentence will be on the cards for her.

[SeattleGirl]

3. No kidding. And she has the additional strike against her of not

being in the Bush "inner circle".

What a load of crap!

[DeSwiss]

4. After the JACKASSES Lt. found out what they did, they let her go....

...the damned numbskulls.

I guess they've got all the crime pretty well under control in Orem if they're down to arresting members of the AARP...

:mad:

[SeattleGirl]

7. Good!

I bet she's still pretty shaken up, though.

WTF is the matter with people????

Bush is yelling "terra terra terra" but the ones who get in trouble are people who can't afford to water their lawns?????

We have definitely fallen down the rabbit hole. :grr: :grr:

[SeattleGirl]

2. What the hell is wrong indeed? And what is it about "I can't afford

to water the lawn" do they not get?????

Jeebus Christ on a stick! :grr: :grr: :grr:

[DeSwiss]

6. Oh, and they let the "Officer" go home too....

...on paid administrative leave.

Jackass. :mad:

[SeattleGirl]

9. Of course they did!

Mistakes were made. No harm was meant to this woman. A memo was misplaced. Yada yada yada.

I'm so sick of this shit.

Despite my conviction that Bush is completely playing the terra terra terra card, there ARE people who need to be looked at, followed, caught, etc., who could pose a genuine threat (and I don't necessarily mean al Queda), and they waste fucking time and money on THIS?????

God save us.

[SpiralHawk]

46. This is the republicon mind set. Poor people are Evil Doers. Rich are good.

The republicon perversion of all

[lligrd]

5. Arrested For Conserving Water

Just great.

[DeSwiss]

8. Yeah I got that too....

Hey! We live in a DESERT state buddy!!!

Someone needs to spank that punk.

[SeattleGirl]

10. But, but, that punk is saving us from terra terra terra!!!!!

:sarcasm:

[shimmergal]

109. We live in a desert too, and

when people move out, leaving their houses up for sale, they typically turn off the watering system.

Despite Homeowners' Assoc. rules, I don't know that anyone has tried to pursue them on this. Much less the police!

City govt. tends to worry more about watering outside your allotted times and days, and thus wasting water. I haven't heard of any arrests over that either, but they do run a lot of public service announcements.

[LostinVA]

38. That's what I was thinking too

Around here, they give you violations FOR watering your lawn if the water tables drop too much.

I don't get the whole "lush, green lawn" obsession thing in this country. I remember when that man killed the teen last year for walking across his lawn -- some DUers hold this obsession very close to their hearts.

[Kingshakabobo]

60. Yeah. FOR watering? I thought it was a typo. WTF? n/t

[Zookeeper]

67. And you're in VA. In MN people get tickets for watering...

during dry spells. And yet, the DESERT town is committed to keeping lawns green?!?!

What is wrong with those people???

[LostinVA]

117. Exactly -- weird

[dkofos]

56. In the desert no less!!

[ellisonz]

11. WTF!!!

Fuck the police.

[libnnc]

12. WTF kind of dumbassed zoning ordinance demands that people water their lawns?

Who the hell would endorse that? Keeping people from having rusted out '75 Novas as lawn ornaments I can understand...but legislating watering the lawn??? Insane.

[SeattleGirl]

13. If they're gonna legislate it, then they outta pay for it!

Or pay for the groceries that a person can't buy because the money went to the water bill.

[LaurenG]

44. Yes! or put in xeroscaping for all who want it.

Water is a valuable commodity and should be used for crops and people not lawns anyway, imo.

:hi:

[Robbien]

16. My area does legislate lawn care

I can see the lady getting fined. I've gotten a couple of warnings when being lazy let the grass get to about six inches.

But jailed? No. They send warnings. Then more warnings. Then I guess a fine.

I really expect the lady was arrested for not cooperating with the police.

[libnnc]

18. I can understand getting ticketed for letting

your grass get too high. That becomes a public health issue...rats, snakes and such. But for not watering? Personally, I think watering a lawn is a waste of water.

[SeattleGirl]

19. Amen. Especially when it costs a lot of money to do so.

We have a large yard, and do keep it mowed. But watered???? No way. We don't currently have enough money to take care of that. Even my neighbor, who takes a lot of pride in his lawn, has not watered it for the past several years. He keeps the landscaping up, keeps it mowed, but otherwise, forget it.

I'm sorry, but some things really ARE a luxury, and not a necessity. This is one of them.

[Robbien]

23. If one does not water in dry climates, grass dies and weeds grow

which is also a health issue from a hay fever standpoint.

Her lawn must be in really bad shape or people wouldn't have even noticed a non-watering problem.

I agree with you that watering lawns is a waste of clean water. We collect our almost clean slightly used household waste water and water our lawn with it.

[SeattleGirl]

24. Now that's a good idea.

Is it a lot of work? I ask just because the woman in question is 70, and who knows what kinds of health problems or physical limitations she may have that would prevent her from doing more.

[Robbien]

25. Lugging around gallons of water isn't easy

A bit of exercise. We do it because it hurts to see all that good water just going down the drain.

Really, I expect this lady has a real problem neglected lawn where a bit of water will no longer help it. Otherwise no one would have complained to the authorities.

[SeattleGirl]

26. Unless there are some mighty uppity people in her neighborhood.

You know, if you ARE able to do things around your yard, or pay from someone to do them for you, that's great.

To be honest, I'm thinking of my 71 year old mother, who has had a number of health problems. She's no Lazy Lucy by any means, but there are many things that her body just won't let her do anymore. My siblings who live near her do a lot for her, which is more than some people can count on.

I love the look of a well-kept lawn and landscaping, but if it is a hardship for the person living in the house, I will take their wellbeing over the look of a nice lawn any day of the week.

[Robbien]

32. It is really interesting reading the comments left by local posters

at the original story site.

Seems as if the police in the area have a tendency to be obnoxious (waking you up at 2am to tell you the garage door is left open). Basically most of the local people are outraged and feel the neighborly thing to do is chip in and help the lady. People driving past the place thought the place was abandoned and very unkempt.

Appears the cost to water a lawn in that area is about $50-100 a month. Geeze.

[Matsubara]

116. That's a lot of money to a lot of people.

She should definitely get a xeriscape. I hope the neighbors and some charitable lanscaper will pitch in to do it for her.

50-10 buck a month for a lawn that nobody is going to play on anyway is a waste of water and money.

I'm not anti-lawn, but for many people, there is no reason to mantain one.

[KatyaR]

48. I would bet you it was the code enforcement team and not the neighbors who turned her in.

In the suburb I used to live in, there was a "code enforcement team" who did nothing but drive around town and find "problems" like unmowed lawns, fallen fences, etc. You could get a huge fine if everything on your property wasn't perfect.

[Mojorabbit]

27. I want weeds

I plant dandelions and they will not grow. I have loads of plantain and clover. My damn grass crowds my good edible weeds out. I keep bees and am also going for edible landscape. But I live in Florida and we are finally in the rainy season.
On edit, I looked at the pics on the site and the yard does not look bad at all, just brown.

[Robbien]

30. Can't even image not being able to grow dandelions

I expect it may be the heat in Florida. Our dandelion season is early spring and then they are dormant until about fall when they come back in all their dreaded yellow splendor.

[dipsydoodle]

34. Out of curiousity

are able to mail you seeds from the UK ? Could mail you our strain of dandelions.

[Mojorabbit]

114. Thanks

I would love to try some in a pot and see if they take!

[sandnsea]

Our entire town lets our grass die

The way much of the rest of the country lets theirs die in winter. It's only dry 2 months a year, the rest of the year the rain keeps it green. It doesn't cause any health problems at all, that's a bunch of bullshit. The only reason to water a lawn is if there is a fire hazard. Oh, and it's just too ugly for the fucking uppity goddamn snobs to look at.

[Connie_Corleone]

47. Maybe one of her neighbors should've offered to water her lawn for her.

[Occulus]

52. Why the fuck do you keep apologizing for this shitty pig behavior? n/t

[LostinVA]

40. Agreed

[ChairmanAgnostic]

62. but birds and healthy insects love longer grass

I never water my lawn, but both neighbors on either side do. Funny, even after a dry may and june, mine looks just fine.

[Truth2Tell]

81. Puuulease. A public health issue?

Rats and snakes? Rats and snakes can live just fine in short grass. Or bushes. Or under houses. Or in wood piles.

These ordinances are designed to enforce other people's aesthetic sensibilities. That's it. Let's at least be honest about it.

Disclosure - I've had this fight in a former neighborhood - other people choosing to tell me how I should maintain MY property - because, god forbid, they have to look at it. But where does it end? What if I don't like the look of my neighbor's kitschy troll statues? Or the color of their house?

And this crap inevitably affects the poor and the elderly and the disabled more than the rich, who can just hire some Mexicans to keep up the garden.

If you're going to try to rationalize this elitist BS, at least use the "property values" meme. But rats and snakes? That's a good one.

[LostinVA]

39. Not cutting the grass is one thing -- my HOA has that, too

It's trashy looking and gives vermin a place to hide. But not having a green, lush lawn? Whatever.

[Truth2Tell]

82. I thought Romney was taking care of the Vermin problem? n/t

[Eurobabe]

14. She saw more jail time than Scooter, pathetic. n/t

[TheFarseer]

51. lol - great point. Welcome to Bushamerica n/t

[oldgrowth]

15. Some local Landscaper needs to give he a load of rock

And a few local plants that need no watering,I bet there's no law that you have to have grass but if you do you have to water!!!

[SeattleGirl]

20. Cannot agree with you on this one. If it comes down to a choice between

feeding the lawn, and feeding my family, the family wins out.

[provis99]

17. Why are there even lawns in Orem?

Its a friggin' desert. The only thing growing in the front yard should be a cactus, for chrissakes. If the twits that passed this ordnance want lawns, they can move to a non-desert. Does Las Vegas have a lawn-watering requirement too? Wouldn't surprise me too much.

[Hekate]

35. My son moved to Vegas.There are serious water restrictions for landscaping there now.

As for coastal California where I live, we get drought in cycles. Live here a few decades and you get it. Right now we're headed into another one (actually, are already in it, but haven't felt the full effects yet) so expect water restrictions quite soon. At that point, one's neighbors start viewing the neighborhood greenery with a jaundiced eye.

There are usually city ordinances about using household grey-water on your landscaping, with hoops to jump through before they permit it. I think that's what my son is up against regarding the tree in his front yard that died. Other than that, I have read that Las Vegas has started subsidizing homeowners who want to rip out their lawns and replace them with desert landscaping.

Orem Utah sounds like a city in utter denial of its local ecosystem.

Hekate

[shimmergal]

110. That's true. There are rebates for

changing from grass to xeriscaped landscaping. There are rules about the hours and days you can water (never in high-heat hours of the day in summer--it just evaporates). Swimming pools aren't discouraged, though; it takes less water to maintain a pool than a lawn in the same space, because with proper treatment the same water stays in the pool for several years, and pool covers cut down on evaporation.

Don't know about the used-dishwater restrictions. However, nothing can stay alive here with just the water you give it thru hand-watering. Either an automatic sprinkler system or drip irrigation is necessary.

Some varieties of trees take very little moisture; in the areas where these have had time to mature there's lovely greenery and much-needed shade. However, the city's been growing so fast that many areas have only starter trees. I miss the nice shade trees we had effortlessly in the Midwest!

[Hekate]

111. The Central Coast has been variously called a "coastal desert" and "Mediterranean"

At the best of times we don't get much rain, but anything will grow here if you water it. (Then of course there's the years where rain comes all at once, and that's when the hills slide out from under the houses.)

I moved into my house 24 years ago. The plants that have survived with no care are: philodendron, bird-of-paradise, raphaelepsis, nandina, Cape Honeysuckle, and geraniums. I was thinking of xeriscaping, but when I looked around I realized that with no effort I could actually achieve a semi-tropical look, as long as I was willing to give up the grass, which died anyway. You just can't kill that gigantic philodendron. There are many more listed in "Tough Plants for California Gardens."

I would not try this in Orem or Las Vegas, however. The Central Coast at least gets good doses of fog, which inland deserts don't. In those places, I would xeriscape. I don't know what the city fathers of Orem can be thinking, but then it's hard to see clearly with one's head where the sun don't shine.

Hekate

[freeplessinseattle]

36. I think I've heard that LV has laws against watering lawns

when there is a drought. which is often. I think they also discourage washing cars and conserving water in other ways. 'course this may evry be at the request of the casinos so they can have water aplenty.

[KT2000]

21. Brown lawn here!

The water goes to the farmers and stays in the river for salmon spawning grounds. Some people who draw water off for lawn watering but there are more and more who want the salmon to survive.

[SeattleGirl]

22. Mine is on it's way to brown-dom.

And that's fine. To water my lawn well would take a LOT of water, and I'm cool with it turning brown. Still has a bit of a way to go until it get's there, and when it does, I'll just hang on to my memories of early spring when it is naturally green.

[sandnsea]

29. Be green again in Sept

So who cares. I don't understand these people and the cork up the ass over the goddamn lawn. Who gives a shit, close your fucking eyes.

[KT2000]

31. LOL! No kidding

So right about September - all of a sudden it's green again. Amazing.

[knitter4democracy]

76. Here too.

And we're in Michigan. The church on the corner's not watering their lawn, and many of our neighbors aren't either. Not enough rain this summer so far.

[orleans]

28. i hope whoever has that cop for a gandson kicks his ass!

and doesn't send him a birthday card with money in it this year!

[Kingshakabobo]

64. LOL. Best post in the thread! Grannies unite!!!! n/t

[orleans]

79. hell's grannies...?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CStfT8gCrjM

[piedmont]

33. What a god-damned bunch of water wasters.

If grass won't grow in an area without being watered, then it's not appropriate for use in the yard. I can't imagine how much good, clean water is being wasted by Utahans pretending to be Floridians.

[LostinVA]

42. What you said

[Odin2005]

37. Jailed for WHAT?!?

In UTAH of all places, where people shouldn't be having lawns. :banghead:

Heads better roll over this! :grr:

[WindRavenX]

74. dude...you have no idea here

In the rich suburbs of SLC, the amount of time and money spent on "lawn wars" is just mindboggling...it's pathetic, it's wasteful, and it's just flat-out idiotic.

Sending someone to jail over this...I really don't have words for it.

[Elspeth]

77. One of the old lady's neighbors:

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=1444771&comments=true
Hello
Report Commentby Pamela J. @ 1:13am - Sat Jul 7th, 2007

Cabbie is right. I live in the same neighborhood as this woman. I did not complain about her yard, but I am aware of some of the circumstances that most of the commenters here do not. Ms.Perry owns the house but doesn't really live there. She is "out of town" most of the year. She has some friends and family in Orem but doesn't really like her neiborhood as I have found out when she gets in the mood to gripe about something. When she is here she lives in the motorhome behind her house. I don't think she should have been taken to jail, but she needs to come to terms with a house that is in need of care and responsible ownership. Most of her neighbors are in apartments and are not in a position to be able to help her, it is a low income area. Some neighbors (me included) have helped her with her yard, but we cannot make water come out of her hose when she is in Florida or Hawaii. There are alternitives to old run down homes with yards, take my word for it this house has problems, I wish she would consider these options instead of ignoring her neighbors feelings and the city ordinances. She doesn't have fond feelings for the house and neighborhood so moving shouldn't be a problem for her. I usually like and believe KSL but I sure don't appreciate the spin they put on this story. They just stirred up a lot of bad feeling that wasn't necessary.
(show comment)

[marions ghost]

41. this is exactly what's wrong with this country

This never should have happened.

OK the woman's grass is not watered, or doesn't look good or whatever.

A. Couldn't one of the neighbors find out what's going on and help her out?

B. OR if the neighbors were just content to complain to the authorities, couldn't the authorities figure out a way to help her get some attention to the yard? Maybe IF they had ever thought beyond fines and jailing people around there, they might think a person living alone could use some assistance or at least figure out a way to make her yard easier to manage. What about the option of working WITH, instead of against. We are so adversarial in this country.

C. Out in the desert, there ought to be grass-free yard options that make sense.

-----------------

What this is about:

NO FLEXIBILITY, NO VISION, NO CREATIVITY, NO BASIC HUMANITY, not to mention overzealous cops and too much authoritarian BS.

[LostinVA]

43. Some local landscapers need to give her a load of mulch

And spread it for her. That way, the local cops don't need to look at her "distasteful" non-green grass, and teh poor lady doesn't need to worry about her money.

[entanglement]

45. DU badly needs a "jackbooted cops" or "thugs in uniform" forum

[Occulus]

53. AND an apologist subforum

I'm getting really, really, completely, blow-my-lid-off fucking SICK of cop apologists and authoritarians on this board. They've come out of the woodwork lately, they're obnoxious as all get out, and they're NOT progressive by any stripe.

They don't belong here, but I can't say that to a donor with over 1000 posts. But they're here, in the open. Some of them seem ot be very longtime posters, too.

Interesting, that.

[slampoet]

87. As the son of a cop I find it offensive how there are a posse of screwheads who defend cops.......

...even to the point of dissing old widows and little children.


You jerks who defend force at any cost need to read "The Scapegoat Generation"


I am just waiting for there to be a case where a cop decides to quarter British Troops in some poor person's Home without permission.


You know there would be at least Five idiots defending that cop as having a hard pressure filled job and that it's not a part of the constitution worth keeping.


Essetially the cop defenders are quoting Bush, "IT's HARD WORK."


i hope they like the company they keep.


I had a legitimate post erased because it was part of a deleted subforum on this thread.


These defenders make the bad cops last longer. They do nothing for good cops. No good cop is affected by anything online. Only bad cops.

Good cops have better things to do.

[Canuckistanian]

49. Why do these "suspects" always "fall down"?

I've seen this so often.

A quiet, but confused suspect is being arrested for some ridiculous reason then - they "fall down", usually injuring themselves.

Or the cops use far too much manhandling and end up injuring them.

Or even worse, just whip out a taser.

With violent crime on the decline (generally), why are the cops resorting to force so often, even when it's totally inappropriate?

[slampoet]

89. It is because the US let cops do that to drug dealers and "Communists" for 40 years....

...and once the cops figured they could treat anyone like a drug dealer and NEVER face the consequences.

None of the older generation defended accused drug dealers when the DEA came in and shot them dead, even when it turned out that the person was not a dealer and the warrant wasn't even for that house. This has happened once every three or four months since 1986, as far as i can recall, and not a single thing has been done by the "GOOD" people because the "GOOD" people don't want to stand up for "Criminals", and dead people can't stand up for anybody.

In any just society that would have gotten the death penalty or life in prison for the offending officer.

But instead the officer gets off with a suspension or even scott free.

Then that officer transfers to a different area and maybe even starts to train other cops in Special Tactics.

There are now police on the force of many small towns who have killed someone in a larger city and had to leave the force in that city. They are now practicing police officers in other states or just towns too small to care or check until it happens again and some innocent American is killed or stripped of the freedom that cop broke a promise to protect.

BTW this "Washed up in the big city, hired in a small town" syndrome seems to happen with priests and teachers too.


Imagine if it happened with PILOTS?

[Robb]

50. Per the Orem city website, water rates:

A 1-inch meter base rate of $22.59 per month, plus 50 cents per 1,000 gallons.

Doesn't seem particularly onerous. Not saying she should've been arrested, though.

[book_worm]

54. poor 70 year old grandmother=1 hr. in jail. rich convicted felon (Scooter)=zero jail time

Welcome to Bush's America.

[DemGa]

55. Not surprised at all

I mean, things like this are bound to happen.

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/LAW/04/24/scotus.arrest.03/

[Joe Chi Minh]

57. There seems to be an awful lot of malevolent retards in your police

forces over there - and a police uniform just seems to bring out the worst in them.

[Toasterlad]

58. Sure. It Was a Power Thing; It Had Nothing to Do With the Lawn

Unfortunately, a large number of policemen (and women) dig the power (real and implied) that comes along with their uniforms a little too much. Seems to me the cop didn't like her trying to go back in her house - effectively, dismissing him - so THAT's when he decided she needed to be arrested. Cops on a power trip can really make life hell for people if they get a mind to...and a lot of them seem to get a mind to do it often.

Any cop caught abusing his authority like this should be fired.

[Joe Chi Minh]

65. Yes. It's a certain kind of mentality. I dare say it's failry common among

prison warders. All those kinds of jobs. I don't mean they're all like that, of course - though I suspect that particular police stations can be more prone to it than most, simply because of the malign influence of one or two individuals.

Some blokes even masquerade as police officers just for the kick they get out of it. And yes, he should be kicked out and made to sit a psychiatric test at his own expense. If you fail your driving test in Zurich more than two or three times, you have to sit one!

[slampoet]

93. I will do you one better. Any cop caught abusing his authority like this should be......

....charged with the crime they are falsely arresting someone for. I'm not talking about a charge that doesn't stick. I'm talking about proven conspiracy.


if you falsely arrest someone for petty theft or a joint you serve their 60 days.

If someone you arrested is on death row falsely due to your actions as a police officer?


Well, you get the picture.

Maybe this in unwieldy, but even serving a quarter of their sentence doesn't seem like much.

After all, what do the Good Cops have to hide?

[HowHasItComeToThis]

59. Send your comments to Salt Lake Paper right here

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_6319911

[Vinca]

61. It's official: the universe has turned upside down.

Grandmas in jail for not watering the lawn, perjurers given presidential commutations. You can't make this stuff up.

[rateyes]

63. Here in GA, you'll get fined and have your water turned off..

if you DO water your lawn. I haven't watered mine in a year, either. The rains have finally started to fall, and the grass is turning green.

Conserving water, wherever you are, should NOT be a crime.

[tblue37]

66. Two things going on there:

1. Cops are often just power tripping. They like being the boss, and they hate when you don't bow and scrape to them and jump immediately when they tell you to.

2. And their real job is to enforce the mandates of the wealthy and well-connected. Those are the kind of people who find it a "nuisance" that an elderly woman can't afford to water her lawn to make it look pleasing to them. They are also the kind of people who find it offensive when poor and homeless people are fed in public spaces by charities. It offends their delicate sensibilities.

[blues90]

68. Untrained cops , the height of insanity

[smoogatz]

69. I'm surpised he didn't taser her ass and charge her with resisting arrest.

That's usually the MO with cops who think they have to assert their authority over the unarmed and non-violent. I hope she sues the city of Orem back into the 1800's.

[The Straight Story]

70. That old bat had it coming

Imagine her bringing down property values and making other people suffer - we need to regulate our poor people in this country cause what they do affects me.

Poor folks in bars/restaurants too, have you seen that crap they wear, I bet she does not even carry a coach purse - it makes it harder for the rest of us to pick up chicks cause the good women won't go into places with people who dress in non-designer clothes.

Their fashion sucks, their yards suck, and it all just makes me scared - we need laws to protect me...

:sarcasm:

(just wanted to get it out there before someone else does....)

[Blue_In_AK]

71. Excuse me, but aren't they having a drought in the west...

It would seem to me that the lady is performing a civic service by not wasting precious water on her lawn.

[chaska]

72. Stupidity knows no bounds. Derrick Jensen is right, our society is literally insane.

[Elspeth]

73. Read this comment by an actual police officer

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=1444771&comments=true

You are so wrong
Report Commentby J Bear @ 11:25pm - Fri Jul 6th, 2007


As a police officer myself this case makes me sick! Zoning enforcement officers ARE NOT police officers! They have not completed the required training to be law enforcement officers, nor do they have arrest powers! They only have citizen arrest capability the same as security guards. Most zoning enforcement officers are young people hoping to obtain a career in law enforcement someday, but that last thing this state needs is an over zealous pig!

I think what happened to the lady was horrible and wrong. I would be furious if this had happened to my grandmother.

The zoning officer needs to be fired and possibly charged with assault.

I would love to help zeroscape the woman’s yard because it would make me feel alot better. Orem should pay for the bill too.

[northzax]

80. this is a good point

and one that should be repeated. The guy who 'arrested' her is not a POLICE OFFICER, he is a zoning enforcement officer. I spent some time as an environmental inspector for a city, and while I carried a badge, and had the right to issue summons for violations, I did not have the right to arrest anyone. just like parking enforcement officers, they can write tickets, but that can't arrest you (Any more than any other citizen can arrest someone) The woman in question, and the report, have only good things to say about the police officers actually involved, they were courteous, polite and helpful, once the issue was brought to their attention, they solved the problem. this isn't about police, it's about a jackass enforcement officer who didn't know the law, or his own limits (And certainly will never become a police officer now, if that was his goal)

[slampoet]

85. What's the difference? If the cops didn't charge him with False Arrest then they are accessories.

The fact is these cops allowed this to continue by not arresting the Inspector.

In a way this is worse. It means that they really are the Army of the Rich and Establishment.

If the inspector took her to the station he should be charged with attempted kidnapping and an attack on the elderly (with added penalties) if he cuffed her.


This would happen to any ordinary citizen who tried to arrest someone for a fictional crime.


Frankly If she needs a lawyer to sue this inspector I know someone.

I think she should settle for the inspector coming to her house and personally watering the lawn at his expense for the rest of His (not her) Life.

[Name removed]

75. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Jed Dilligan]

78. Vid for everyone to watch

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x38872

She might have been able to avoid going to jail if she'd followed these steps. Then again, this cop seems like a dangerous sort and it may have been best not to assert her rights (except maybe the 2nd Amendment...)

[nolabels]

83. I have watered the trees in our yard by hand for twenty years but never.....

felt that much of desire to have a lawn. Arresting grandma for not hosing down the lawn, you fucking fascist Nazi's, you muthers are going to pay for your shit in the end x(






P.s. sorry just needed to vent a little :shrug:

P.s.the P.s., If you FUCKING FASCIST NAZI PIGS who want to call yourself police know what the hells good for you then you will stay well away from innocent grandmas, especially ours :grr:

[treestar]

84. What is wrong with the people who voted for the people who

passed that law?

The cops sound like they are just enforcing the law.

I think it was Lincoln who said the best argument againt a bad law is to enforce it.

All laws should be enforced. So the people can take Responsiblity. Enough of passing feel-good laws and then blaming the police/prosecutors/lawyers. You, the people, let this law pass. If it's enforced, you have no valid whine against the cops/prosecutors/lawyers.

[slampoet]

86. Wow. you are soooooooo White.

Lucky for America, Jimmy Carter, the person in your sig line, doesn't share your opinions.

[treestar]

88. Like what are you talking about?

Why blame the cops for enforcing the passed laws?

It's letting them get passed that is the problem.

In fact they would be wrong not to enforced the enacted laws.

[w4rma]

90. Yup. The problem is the law in Utah, not the cop. (nt)

[slampoet]

94. You'd rather blame 2,233,169 Americans rather than one cop, (who wasn't a cop but pretented to be?)

The fact is that the police could have arrested the inspector who performed the citizen's arrest. They could have charged him with kidnapping and assault on the elderly.

The police chose not to obey the law. They had more choice than the woman who couldn't afford water.

They didn't enforce the law and you are defending them for that.

[w4rma]

99. He wasn't a cop. I missed that when I read. It was a citizen's arrest. My apologies. (nt)

[slampoet]

100. Yet you went in defending the cop from the start.

Maybe you need to stop.


Take a breath.


An consider if you want to be an American, or if you are just here because you want to have a good job and "Feel safe".


Sorry if i am kicking you while you are offering an olive branch. ( I admit that I am)


But this defending cops who do evil is a SICKNESS in America. it needs to stop if America is to survive.

[w4rma]

101. Okay now I'm done apologizing and it's you who needs to apologize. There was no cop to defend. (nt)

[slampoet]

102. You didn't sit back did you? and you didn't read my other posts....

The police chose not to arrest the person who kidnapped, assaulted and falsely arrested this person while possibly impersonating a police official (or at least giving the impression).


That is what you are defending by saying it is up to Utah to change rather than up to the Police Force to change.


I'm sorry i didn't spoon feed it to you.

[w4rma]

103. The "inspector"/citizen apparantly had the power to arrest. If you want that law changed then take

it up with the people who allowed the law on the books.

[slampoet]

91. You are naive. Lawmakers don't listen to anyone who has been in jail even if they are innocent. WHY?

BECAUSE THEY CAN'T VOTE!!


Therefore the cops in arresting someone take away ALL THEIR OPTIONS FOR REDRESS!!


I mean, please think about this, before you post.



Also watch the Movie "Dazed and Confused". It is about a normal right of passage that has been harassed out of existence (for better or worse) in America.


Count the jailtime and tell me if those children would be better off arrested.

[dysfunctional press]

105. huh?

the only time you lose your right to vote is after certain felony convictions- and even then, most states allow you to petition to get the right back.

[slampoet]

95. Treestar? Did you even READ the article? The Widow was arrested by a CIVILIAN!!

The fact is these cops allowed this to continue by not arresting the Inspector.

In a way this is worse. It means that they really are the Army of the Rich and Establishment.

If the inspector took her to the station he should be charged with attempted kidnapping and an attack on the elderly (with added penalties) if he cuffed her.


This would happen to any ordinary citizen who tried to arrest someone for a fictional crime.


Frankly If she needs a lawyer to sue this inspector I know someone.

I think she should settle for the inspector coming to her house and personally watering the lawn at his expense for the rest of His (not her) Life.

[dysfunctional press]

104. where does it say that it was a civilian...?

the article i'm reading says that it was a police officer that came to her door.

[slampoet]

106. Funny but i am reading that now too.

I was reading the story at this link.

http://www.heraldextra.com/content/view/228029/4/

and i could have sworn that it said "An officer of the Neighborhood Preservation Unit" which i then looked up and found that the NPU didn't have an official connection to the police and therefore assumed the "enforcement officer" was instead a civilian.

Now most articles read "An Orem police officer assigned to a Neighborhood Preservation Unit"


So this may be an actual police officer.

All we have is the police department's word and a few posts here have said it was different. The fact is that in any town this job usually falls to that of zoning inspector.


But It seems I have gotten it wrong and that it should be a police officer who is charged with assault. This is my screw up. my bad.


It also seems that more details are in this Herald story about the actual assault. It actually makes me feel worse if a cop did this.

check this out, the difference in the two stories.
---------------------------------------------------------------


"I'm very distraught over all this. I can't believe this happened. Do you ever just wish you could start your day over and it would all be different?" Perry said.

Orem police spokesman Lt. Doug Edwards said the woman fell after she pulled away while the officer was trying to arrest her. He also said she rolled onto her stomach and put her hands underneath her body to keep the officer from handcuffing her.

Perry said she was accidentally hit in the face with a handcuff while the officer was trying to arrest her, giving her a fresh bruise on her nose.

"He had one loose on my arm and he was trying to get my arms back and of course, you know, I'm resisting. I don't know what he's doing. I said, 'What are you doing?' And he hit me with those handcuffs in my face," she said.

Perry, however, said she was not resisting arrest.

"No, I tried to sit down and get away from him. I wouldn't be doing anything like that. He's just trying to cover his tracks, as far as I'm concerned. He really abused me ... to get me to go to jail and put handcuffs on me," she said. "For what, because I didn't give him my name? Because I wanted to call my son and see what I should do because I've never had anything like this happen to me in my life?"

[dysfunctional press]

108. and it did say that when the police brass(i.e."Andy") found out about it she was let go...

and i would hope that Barney was given more than a stern talking to.

[Cobalt Violet]

92. Nice "ownership society" we got, eh?

:err:

[Th1onein]

96. The Lawn Gestapo!

You know, if a cop comes to my door, I DO NOT OPEN IT, unless I, myself, have called them. I had one knock on my door early in the morning, one time, looking for my daughter, for traffic warrants. He INSISTED I show him an ID and threatened to "cite" me if I didn't. The entire time, I kept my door locked. I told him to go F#$% himself, get off of my property. And, I called the sheriff's department on him (he was from a town down the road). When the sheriff's deputy arrived on my front porch, I told him to get the asshole off of my property and get himself off, too. They both left.

Do NOT mess with me before my first cup of coffee in the morning.

[AnotherDreamWeaver]

97. Palmdale Calif. passed a law you had to water your lawn

My folks used to live in Idaho for the summer and had to hire a neighbor to water and mow the lawn. They left Palmdale a couple of years back.

[Raine]

98. Disgraceful

what they did to her and that there even is an IDIOTIC law like that!!! :mad:

[johnaries]

107. This is why I refuse to live in the Suburbs or Fascist Developments.

I live in the woods, where I let my property grow naturally.

GOD: Frank, you know all about gardens and nature. What in the world is going on down there on earth? What happened to the dandelions, violets, thistle and stuff I started eons ago? I had a perfect, no-maintenance garden plan. Those plants grow in any type of soil, withstand drought and multiply with abandon. I expected to see a vast garden of colors by now. But all I see are these green rectangles.
ST. FRANCIS: It's the tribes that settled there, Lord. The Suburbanites. They started calling your flowers "weeds" and went to great lengths to kill them and replace them with grass.
GOD: Grass? But it's so boring. It's not colorful. It doesn't attract butterflies, birds and bees, only grubs and sodworms. It's sensitive to temperatures. Do these Suburbanites really want all that grass growing there?
ST. FRANCIS: Apparently so, Lord. They go to great pains to grow it and keep it green. They begin each spring by fertilizing grass and poisoning any other plant that crops up in the lawn.
GOD: The spring rains and warm weather probably make grass grow really fast. That must make the Suburbanites happy.
ST. FRANCIS: Apparently not, Lord. As soon as it grows a little, they cut it -- sometimes twice a week.
GOD: They cut it? Do they then bail it like hay?
ST. FRANCIS: Not exactly, Lord. Most of them rake it up and put it in bags.
GOD: They bag it? Why? Is it a cash crop? Do they sell it?
ST. FRANCIS: No, Sir. Just the opposite. They pay to throw it away.
GOD: Now let me get this straight. They fertilize grass so it will grow. And when it does grow, they cut it off and pay to throw it away?
ST. FRANCIS: Yes, Sir.
GOD: These Suburbanites must be relieved in the summer when we cut back on the rain and turn up the heat. That surely slows the growth and saves them a lot of work.
ST FRANCIS: You aren't going to believe this Lord. When the grass stops growing so fast, they drag out hoses and pay more money to water it so they can continue to mow it and pay to get rid of it.
GOD: What nonsense. At least they kept some of the trees. That was a sheer stroke of genius, if I do say so myself. The trees grow leaves in the spring to provide beauty and shade in the summer. In the autumn leaves fall to the ground and form a natural blanket to keep moisture in the soil and protect the trees and bushes. Plus, as they rot, the leaves form compost to enhance the soil. It's a natural circle of life.
ST. FRANCIS: You better sit down, Lord. The Suburbanites have drawn a new circle. As soon as the leaves fall, they rake them into great piles and pay to have them hauled away.
GOD: No fooling? What do they do to protect the shrub and tree roots in the winter and to keep the soil moist and loose?
ST. FRANCIS: After throwing away the leaves, they go out and buy something which they call mulch. They haul it home and spread it around in place of the leaves.
GOD: And where do they get this mulch?
ST FRANCIS: They cut down trees and grind them up to make the mulch.
GOD: Enough. I don't want to think about this anymore. St. Catherine, you're in charge of the arts. What movie have you scheduled for us tonight?
ST. CATHERINE: "Dumb and Dumber," Lord. It's a really stupid movie about....
GOD: Never mind. I think I just heard the whole story from St. Francis.

[Pushed To The Left]

112. You would think that conservatives would really be against this as well. What about the property

rights of the woman? I know that a lot of conservatives were upset when a neighborhood association tried to keep a homeowner from painting his house a certain color. There was sort of a protest where the house was painted red, white and blue! I think this was in the mid-90s. As a liberal, I feel very strongly about personal freedom, and I think some of these code enforcement/homeowners association rules are a violation of personal freedom.

[silverojo]

113. I'm not surprised--we had a similar situation

While we were caring for my dying 75-year-old aunt (in hospice care here at home), we were too exhausted and financially drained to keep up our front yard, so we started having a problem with weeds.

Two months after she passed away, we received a letter from the city about this, which threatened her with a fine, jail, and probation if she didn't take care of the problem. Mind you, the city was already aware of her death, because they had called her for local (city) jury duty, and we sent them a copy of her death certificate.

Thank God we had a kind landlord who took care of it for us, but it's just the idea....

* They sent a warning to a dead person

* If she had still been alive, they sent a warning to a 75-year-old woman on oxygen 24/7

* She could have gotten jail AND probation, as well as a fine of $2500 per DAY, even though she couldn't afford to hire anyone to take care of the yard (and the rest of us in the household were too weakened and ill to do it for her).

So, yeah, I can totally believe this shit happened in Utah. :mad:

[Matsubara]

115. Maybe some neighborhood folks can pitch in to help her rock over her yard?

Rock or gravel yards are a great alternative to grass in arid climates...





At least that's what everyone did in El Paso when I lived there...



Oh, yeah, and arresting a little old lady for something like that is RIDICULOUS!