There are no words. Atrocious gang rape in Florida led by 14 & 16 year old...(graphic)

[Bluebear]

WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. - Two teenagers were accused of gang raping a woman and forcing her 12-year-old son to join in the attack, then beating him and pouring cleaning solution into his eyes.

Authorities allege Avion Lawson, 14, and Nathan Walker, 16, were among a group of about 10 masked suspects who forced their way into the woman's apartment in a crime-ridden housing project the night of June 18.

The two were being held without bail Friday on suspicion of armed sexual battery by multiple perpetrators, sexual performance by a child, armed home invasion and aggravated battery. Both were arrested this week, but formal charges had not been filed. Authorities said the two would be charged as adults...

According to the police report, a man knocked on the woman's door at about 9 p.m. and told her he had a flat tire. The mother and son, whom police have not identified, went outside and were ambushed by a group of gun-wielding suspects. The victims told police they were forced back into their home and beaten and sexually assaulted. According to authorities, the men raped, sodomized and beat the woman, then forced her son to participate in the assault at gunpoint, making him have sex with his mother in front of them.

The boy was then beaten and had numerous household cleaning liquids poured into his eyes, according to the police report. The suspects also stole a few hundred dollars worth of cash and jewelry, White said.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070707/ap_on_re_us/gang_rape_teens

[shadowknows69]

1. Um, this look a litttle too much like "A Clockwork Orange" to anyone else?

Burgess was a prophet to be sure.

[Bluebear]

2. My little droogies . . . nt

[liberaldemocrat7]

95. This story reminds me of A Clockwork Orange. The rapists should get 30 years no parole.

The rapists should get put away 30 to 35 years no parole.

The punishment should fit the crime and in my view no parole should apply and 30 to 35 years away will give the 10 rapists a long time to stay out of society.

If the woman got killed, yes then put them away for life with no parole. In my view the just sentence should involve 30 to 35 years with no parole.

[bicentennial_baby]

115. Some call Rape the 'Living Death'....

So I say life w/o parole, no questions asked.

[liberaldemocrat7]

135. Hi bicentennial baby. I love that cat.

As for the sentence you would give, I respect your opinion.

[Klukie]

3. OMG!

This is beyond words:cry:

[hobbit709]

4. Taking them out back and shooting them

would be like killing a rabid animal.

[graywarrior]

5. Florida.

[trumad]

10. Florida?

and where are you from....?

[graywarrior]

15. I live in Florida.

I read the papers here and watch the news.

[trumad]

16. Point is... this kind of crime happens anywhere....

[graywarrior]

21. Yabut, when you live here it seems like it's constant and unending

It just seems that the freakiest things happen in Florida. Having lived in NH for so long, it kinda blows me away to see it all happening here. Florida is a big place, but a small place at the same time.

[Edweird]

24. It IS constant and unending.

What general area do you live in? I'm between Ft Lauderdale and Miami.

[graywarrior]

27. Nokomis--between Sarasota and Venice/Ft. Myers.

Child abuse, animal abuse, sick demented crimes.

[Odin2005]

66. "it seems like it's constant and unending" Naw, that's just what the MSM wants you to think.

Not trying to belittle the victims of this disgusting act, but the MSM sensationalism and "if it bleeds it leads" journalism makes things seem more prevalent then they actually are. Remember how the MSM went on and on about the "summer of the sharks" a few years back when a few kids got killed by sharks? there was actually LESS shark attacks during that summer then the year before.

People complain that kids are not spending enough time playing outside. They seem to forget that often the parents keep thier kids inside because the MSM tells them there are murderers and perverts on every street corner.

[DawgHouse]

109. I believe the "summer of the sharks" was 2001

and then Sept 11 came and the sharks mysteriously stopped their killing spree.

[Edweird]

122. Um, no. It really is constant and unending down here.

[ikojo]

106. The other day in North St Louis a 12 year old boy

stabbed a 13 year old girl to death. He then stabbed her mom, who survived.

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/stlouiscitycounty/story/0299913DC247318E862573110013032E?OpenDocument

[Mike Daniels]

140. Your point?

A housing project doesn't seem to be an area where one finds people who are likely to be voting Republican in this century.

[dsc]

6. They should be put under the jail

Simply despicable. The most chilling part is that evidently there are even worse things since the video mentions other tortures but didn't say what they were.

[Edweird]

7. There were a total of 10 participants. It's out of control down here.

[WinkyDink]

12. And nothing to stop this from happening elsewhere. Out-source MORE jobs, America!

[acmavm]

8. Somehow I see very little redemption ever coming from these bastards.

Things, people, are just getting so damn corrupt and evil I don't know where we're gonna end up. We can't keep going on like we are, but in order to prevent so many of these crimes it takes effort and resources that this country just isn't willing to commit.

Parents need to take a damn good look at their kids and figure out what they're up to and how they need to change the situation. Parents and society needs to look at some of the basic reasons we have such a problem anymore with kids killing homeless people, their parents ands siblings, total strangers, and some poor homeless schlocks just sleeping on the streets. PREVENTION is called for here. Be that in the horrific poverty in which millions are allowed to grow up, facing no hope in their futures, or the arrogant entitlement some kids feel because they come from 'money'.

Whatever the f**k it is, we'd damn well be getting on this problem because in case no one's noticed, it ain't getting any better. And these little darlin's are the future of our country.

[Dhalgren]

17. "21st century schizoid man."

The center cannot hold...

We are not who we think we are. I wonder if we ever were. These are American kids who did this - ten of them. Someone suggested that they be "put down", but what of the other groups of ten or twelve, or five or eight roaming about out there? Put them all down, before or after they commit atrocities? If these "kids" were in uniform in Iraq, would there be folks on this board who would try to downplay their culpability? Would these "kids" be "heroes" if they were in uniform in Iraq? Would we "support" them? We, as a society, are rotten to the core. We neglect, discard, throw away those most in need, then incarcerate and execute those who don't magically become "good" citizens. I don't know what the answer is, but I know that we all share in this problem. It isn't "us and them", it is just "us"...

[Bluebear]

19. That is what distresses me so.

This act would be outrageous enough committed by one man, but you could explain it away as psychosis, evil, whatever, anything to say the perpetrator is not one of us. but when TEN youths...youths!!!...do this, I ask how? What can explain this? Who are they? Who are we????

[AngryAmish]

29. They are a manifestation of their debased culture

Culture that praises violence and abuse of women.

[mzmolly]

38. Exactly! From the father of one participant:

Walker made a first court appearance on Friday, after which his father, also named Nathan Walker, spoke briefly.

"My son has a good heart," the elder Walker said outside court. "I can't believe my son would do something like this. I don't teach my son violence so I don't understand."

[mitchum]

58. Walker Sr has been arrested 8 times

[mzmolly]

59. I wonder what for?

Yikes.

[Edweird]

123. Ruby Nell Walker, has been arrested nine times on charges that include aggravated assault

with a deadly weapon and assault with intent to do bodily harm. His father, also named Nathan Walker, has been arrested eight times.

[mwb970]

144. The "good heart" comment was almost as outrageous as the crime.

Parents always say stuff like this. Usually the phrase is "good kid", as in "my son (who just held up a 7/11 and killed three customers) is a good kid". At least this guy showed some creativity. But my answer is still: "Sorry, no. Your son does not have a 'good heart', and saying so is an insult to those of us who do. A normal person can barely stand to even read about what your good-hearted son has done. You may not have taught him violence, but it doesn't sound like you taught him non-violence either."

Dick Cheney's victim apologized to him. I hope these victims experience a different outcome.

[monmouth]

57. One kids mother showed up in court with a shirt saying "Your boyfriend wants me"

She looks like a hooker from what I can see. Also, one of the offenders lives in a very nice, upper middle-class neighborhood. Go figure..

[mzmolly]

61. Good grief.

:puke:

[butterfly77]

78. Where can I go to find the pictures of the mother in court...

or others involving this case...

[monmouth]

116. I saw a picture in the Local section of the Palm Beach Post

www.pbpost.com. She has a red wig on and the boys father is to her right...

[Lydia Leftcoast]

33. Mob mentality

All it takes is one sociopath who has a charismatic hold over a group.

Remember Charles Manson who convinced all those nice middle-class 20-year-olds to break into two different houses and kill a total of ten people for no reason?

[mzmolly]

41. We are also directing the glorification of violence against women to our youth via video games,

music, etc. on a level we've not seen before. These kids are an unfortunate product of our society. We have to recognize that our founding fathers did not intend free speech to involve hate speech.

[acmavm]

62. I agree with you. Take my word for it, I've said the same thing pretty much

before. And did I get a tongue lashing.

Let's see how you do.

[mzmolly]

63. As have I,

but my big mouth trumps my desire for peace at times. ;)

[Akoto]

64. Okay ...

Overall, I agree that society is having a negative impact on the way kids think.

That said, as someone involved in game design, I can assure you that nothing I've ever worked on has glorified gang rape (or rape of any kind). My colleagues are some of the nicest people I know, and we're all equally disgusted by the very thought.

Sorry. It just irritates the hell out of me when my trade and the professionals involved in it are demonized at every opportunity. There are violent games, yes, but those aren't the only ones out there (and even among those, I know of none glorifying anything like this incident).

We have different genres, rating labels and age-for-purchase laws for reasons. Parents have to meet the developers halfway.

[mzmolly]

71. Oh heck not everyone in your profession deserves scorn.

I'll be sure and better clarify in the future. :hi:

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

91. Why the restraint? Go all the way and blame Alan Turing for it. -nt

[mzmolly]

130. Mr. Turning make video games/music where women are violently raped, beaten, murdered.

So, I won't hold him accountable.

[Edweird]

124. They are NOT "societies" fault. They are their PARENT'S fault.

[mzmolly]

129. Bull frikken crap!

You're saying ten kids who happened to meet all had the same kind of parents? My back side!

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

151. Sociopaths gravitate towards one another.

People, generally, are capable to find others who share the same interests within a large group (school for instance). You make it look like they met randomly at the street.

[mzmolly]

153. Sorry, ten sociopaths of in the same age group in the same community

= a societal problem.

[ikojo]

110. Please, I'd be surprised if the "parents" of these kids are

even 30 or if they are 30, then they are in their early 30s. There is a woman (X) here in St Louis that I know, she has a 19 year old daughter who has FOUR kids and is pregnant with her FIFTH child. I say give that girl a tubal NOW! All five kids have different dads and none of them are involved. The kid, her kids and her mom live in the same section 8 apartment.

I asked another friend, if this friend's daughter knew what caused pregnancy? I was flabbergasted when my other friend said X's daughter was expecting ANOTHER kid!

No, the 19 year old does not work. How could she really, with four kids? When this woman is 30 her oldest will be 15 or 16.

The mind boggles!

[Toots]

9. Sort of reminds me of what is happening in Iraq

Except I believe Iraq is even worse. They forced a father to sodomize his own son and crushed a little boys testicles to make the father talk..and Inhofe is "Outraged by the outrage" over it...

[kurth]

11. Put them down

[NMMNG]

13. Put the little bastards away for life

I don't care what kind of sob stories they come up with.

[blondeatlast]

14. ...

:cry::cry::cry:

[Edweird]

18. The parents of Avion Lawson, 14, and Nathan Walker, 16 need to go to prison as well.

Parents are liable for the actions of their minor children, much like how I am liable if my dog attacks a person or another dog.
The parents of these punks failed society as a whole. The need to be held to account.
Too many parents are raising sociopaths.

[Bluebear]

20. "My son has a good heart"

"My son has a good heart," the elder Walker said outside court. "I can't believe my son would do something like this. I don't teach my son violence so I don't understand."

==

Somehow, I don't doubt the elder Walker and believe he is just as stunned as we are.

[theHandpuppet]

22. Wake up, Mr. Walker

You obviously don't have a clue what your son is doing at night or who he's hanging out with. He's 14 years old and running the streets. What did you think would happen?

[ikojo]

111. Reminds me of a story from 2001, a TEN year old

kid was mauled to death by a pack of wild dogs in North St Louis. His name was Rodney McAllister. His mom was a crack addict and she didn't even know her TEN year old kid wasn't at home the night before until the cops came to her door to let her know he was dead. This "family" was so poor that it was Rodney's teachers who bought him a winter coat and gloves. When one teacher gave him a pair of new gloves, Rodney kept on looking at them and turning them over again and again. When asked why he was doing this he said he had never had a new pair of matching gloves before.

We need a license to drive but any one can have sex and create a child. Oy vey! At the very least parenting classes ought to be mandated.



http://www.thecommonspace.org/2005/01/editor.php

[Edweird]

23. Well then, Mr. Walker just needs some time to think about where things went wrong.

I think 10-15 years oughta do it.

[malaise]

25. Probably a case of like father

like son.

[Dhalgren]

26. Where was that "good heart", Mr. Walker, when he was pouring drain

cleaner in that boys eyes? Or when he beat that poor mother unconscious and then raped her? Your "good-hearted" boy is a monster, Mr. Walker, and we need to know how he became one and we to know fast...

[mzmolly]

43. Parents are only one element of influence on kids. There were ten boys

all of whom had different parents. I am personally not puzzled by this given we have a culture that encourages violence against women. Mr. Walker may very well be a kind and good Father.

[Edweird]

121. There were 10 males. 2 were minors. Parents are liable for the actions of their minor

children. The adult males know what to expect.

[mzmolly]

126. The parents wont do jail time, so I'm not sure what you mean by "liable" in this case?

Parents are part of the problem/solution, depending. They are not the "end all."

[TahitiNut]

37. No, Mr. Walker, your son is a sociopath. You trained him in what to SAY, not in what to DO.

You rewarded lip service. You did not nurture conscience. You most likely modeled the "don't get caught" pragmatism rather than acts of conscience. Cheat "just a little bit" on taxes? Speed "just a little bit" on the highways? Have a radar detector? Show that "might makes right"??

Did you ever volunteer, along with your family, at a homeless shelter over a holiday, Mr. Walker? Did you let your kids see you perform any community services, Mr. Walker? Did you elevate such models of human compassion as Gandhi or Mandela to your kids? I doubt it.

[dailykoff]

47. Because Jebster says so?

You really think this is just another lucky V-tech distraction from Junior's latest crime? Like Jose Padilla, the Sears tower plot, and those terrorist hijackers attending "flight school" down in FLA?

Come on. :eyes:

[Dhalgren]

52. You must be replying to the wrong post, tahitiNut said nothing

about this being a distraction of any sort. Mix-up in posts?

[dailykoff]

73. I'm disagreeing that it's a) lucky and b) true.

What annoys me is that this idiotic story hit me in the face when I was opening my web-based e-mail (dumb new feature) and after six years of watching chimpolini cavort I know his shit when he throws it at me.

[Dhalgren]

113. I think that you've still got your posts mixed-up.

TahitiNut didn't say anything about "lucky" or anything about "true". I have no idea what you are talking about...

[dailykoff]

118. The point is that I think it's a load of crap

based on other bogus news from that state, which seems to pretty reliably produce sensational garbage at times convenient to the Neocons.

Hope that helps.

[TahitiNut]

77. This is a bizarre reply to what I posted, to say the least.

(1) Jebster? As in Jeb Bush? Since when does Jeb run the police and DA in West Palm Beach? He's not even the governor anymore.

(2) Since the story is based on a police report filed by the victims - both victims - I have a hard time thinking that the alleged atrocious actions of the teenagers were intended to distract from the corruption in D.C. or deaths in Iraq. To regard any attention paid to other events and atrocities, some of which can be ascribed to the increased impoverishment of the poorest in this country, as a distraction from the abominable corruption of the right wing seems far too tinfoilish even to me, a charter member of the Grassy Knoll Society.

(3) Whether anyone likes to think so or not, the REASON we have such a corrupt regime in D.C. is BECAUSE of a nation where ignorance is regarded as some kind of virtue and hatred as a pastime. Cheney/Bush is a SYMPTOM, not a cause.

[dailykoff]

119. Where have you been for the last six years?

Florida is the backlot for Neocon reality TV, starting with the 2000 election and continuing through 9-11 (My Pet Goat) to the present.

[TahitiNut]

125. Where have I been? Well, not living the 'Truman Show' for sure.

Imagine. The entire state of Florida produced and directed for the sheer purpose of distracting the nation.

Well, that's a firm grasp on reality, isn't it? :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

(Cue 'Twilight Zone' theme. Enter Rod Serling.)

[dailykoff]

28. Hey it got us to forget about Libby dinnit?

Just another dispatch from Tomorrowland.

[cherokeeprogressive]

32. Why don't you ask the mother and son if they're part of the media misdirection?

I'm sure they are...

[dailykoff]

46. You think Junior gives a flying fig about ANY mother and son?

Whatever happened to them couldn't have been pleasant but I doubt very much that this or any other sensationalist crap boiling out of Jeb's toilet is true.

[cherokeeprogressive]

138. Whatever happened to them couldn't have been pleasant but I doubt very much that this... is true"

Fucking hello. Couldn't have been pleasant? Do you have hatred in your heart so deeply ingrained that the most intense feeling you could have in this situation is that the HORRORS that these HUMANS were subjected to rises only to the level of "couldn't have been pleasant"?

We are not only NOT on the same page, I'm certain we're not even reading the same book. Your post was cold, heartless, and showed that your hatred is more important to you than your compassion.

Nice post.

[Balbus]

36. When you're having sex,

do you call the person you're having sex with "Libby"? Or is that person a GOP distraction also?

[Bluebear]

68. Yes, everything is a "distraction" from what you want accomplished

Tell the kid with the Windex in his eyes that he's a distraction.

[dailykoff]

75. Let's find out who's lying before we hang anybody.

Remember uber-terrorist Jose Padilla, also from Florida? Well he's still in prison and there's still no trace of any of his sensational "crimes."

[Bluebear]

76. Quite a leap to Padilla but OK. nt

[LeftishBrit]

30. The poor woman and poor child - that is unbelievable

I hope the boy's eyes are not permanently damaged. Sadly, his mind will be.

Just horrific.

[cherokeeprogressive]

31. NO WAY should they be tried as adults. It's UNFAIR! They didn't know what they were doing! n/t

[aikoaiko]

67. If found guilty then life in solitary confinement without parole

would suit me fine.

[Name removed]

139. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LeftyMom]

152. When you make pro-rape comments, you create the the society where these things happen.

Rape is never an acceptable punishment.

[bobbolink]

34. Poverty is going to erupt more and more.

Some of us liberals have tried to make that point, that if "liberals" don't start paying attention to poverty out of compassion, it's soon going to erupt enought to MAKE them pay attention.

We're so crisis oriented, and so willing to turn out backs on the suffering of poor folk, that I fully expect it will be riots and this kind of criminal behavior before "liberals" GET IT.

[TahitiNut]

39. "Nothing left to lose" is a very dangerous state in which to place MILLIONS.

It's appalling that one must address the "pragmatic" negatives of poverty. Sadly, even such warnings don't deter those who merely seek ways to profit from such conditions. Privateering of the prison "industry" - and prison "industries" as sources of cheap labor. The wealth being accumulated by "security" industries. When self-centered people find ways to profit from misery and violence, they tend to perpetuate the very conditions that breed misery and violence.

[trashcanistanista]

45. "Nothing left to lose"

is another phrase for terror. It's what we have in Iraq and what we are seeing here at home. Horrible story.

[bobbolink]

155. ON target, as usual. The rest of the replies tell me that it's going to keep happening,

because most don't want to see the reality of what happens with oppression.

I really don't care to keep trying anymore.

I hope your words have an effect of getting some to THINK.

[mzmolly]

44. So is violence against women unless we address it as an issue that

deserves our attention. Women are raped at times, by wealthy people too.

[cigsandcoffee]

69. Many, many poor people don't force sons to rape their mothers.

There is a deeper societal ill at play here.

[AngryOldDem]

85. Don't hang this atrocity on poverty.

There is no excuse, except maybe sociopathic depravity, for the hell this mother and son went through.

[Mike Daniels]

141. Yep, poverty played no role in the rape and mutilation of two people

I find it amazing when people want to point at cases like this and say this is the result of poverty.

What this is is the result of a bunch of sick twisted individuals who shouldn't ever see daylight again except from the cracks of their prison cell.

[Edweird]

120. This isn't about rich/poor or black/white. It's about respect for fellow human beings.

Rich kids can be sociopathic scumbags, too. Just look at the white house for proof of that. I've known plenty of decent and honest poor people. Yeah, poverty sucks. I know from experience. But it's no excuse for rape or murder. Or any crime for that matter.

[LBJDemocrat]

35. How can you be forced to rape someone?

Isn't it kind of difficult to get an erection in that sort of situation?

Does anyone know if the kid will be blind from his injuries?

[ncabot22]

40. From what I understand...

Some men can get erections during times of high stress. I suppose if this kid thought he was going to be killed, he could force it. Remember, some rape victims also experience orgasms but that doesn't mean they enjoyed it. Here's a link I found interesting.

http://www.rvap.org/pages/for_male_survivors/

I hope this kid and his mother gets the help he needs.

[RockaFowler]

54. Another Sad story on this . . .

They had to walk to the hospital. It was around 3 miles from their house to the hospital. She had to be in just an awful state the entire walk over there.

[ikojo]

107. How sad. I'm sure she was weeping

all the way to the hospital. No one pulled over to see what was wrong?

[derby378]

70. When the Japanese sacked Nanjing, China before WWII...

...Japanese soldiers committed many atrocities on the cityfolk, including one documented case of forcing a grown man to rape his own mother at bayonet-point while both of them wept in mental anguish.

Being forced to take part in a rape is very possible if you're afraid the consequences for refusing to take part will be much, much worse.

[mzmolly]

51. Rape involves many scenarios, intercourse needn't be among them.

:shrug:

[Yupster]

100. A similar thing happened about 10 years ago

in Kansas.

Two brothers were on a crime spree. Attacked a random place that had 5 20-something ex college friends vacationing (I think they were vacationing).

They robbed them, had sex with the women, then forced the men and women hostages to have sex with each other while they beat them with golf clubs. After that they were driven naked to a school football field where they were each shot in the head execution style and then run over. One woman miraculously survived though shot in the back of the head when a brooch in her hair slightly deflected the bullet.

She staggered to a house for help.

The brothers I believe are now on death row.

The survivor got herpes from one of the brothers.

Check "Wichita Massacre" for details. One of the male hostages was training to be a priest and did have trouble getting an erection. I think if you are hit enough times in the head with a nine irn, you'll be able to do it.

[pnwmom]

42. The older boy must have raped before -- police already had his DNA.

That is how he was identified.

So why wasn't he in prison?

[RockaFowler]

50. Actually, he was questioned by the police

and they asked him to give a DNA sample. They were able to get his fingerprints from the house as well. This story really makes me sick to my stomach.

[RockaFowler]

48. This story made me cry when I heard it

I work for a local TV station and the reporter who covered it came back to the station crying her heart out. West Palm used to be a great place to live, but all has changed in the last 7 years. There are the haves and the have-nots. West Palm has plenty of have-nots. There is no place to live here that is under $300,000 unless you want to live in the area that this woman lives.
My husband and I left the area and moved to St Lucie County. A little better, but it could go the way of West Palm Beach as well if they don't watch it.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

49. I want to vomit. eom

[mzmolly]

53. Indeed, horrible beyond words.

:(

[mitchum]

55. Put those monsters down

[Cleita]

56. Doesn't stuff like this go on in our American sanctioned POW

camps in the Middle East, Ubekistan and elsewhere? Why the sudden outrage when it hits home? Sorry, but maybe we need to extend our moral outrage worldwide. America has become one sick puppy and these are the symptoms of a vast rotting disease.

[Bluebear]

74. 'Sorry, but maybe we need to extend our moral outrage worldwide.'

It's not "sudden outrage" because I am horrified that a child was forced to have sex with his mother and cleaning solvents poured into his eyes. Believe me, I have plenty of outrage to go around :)

[Truthiness Inspector]

60. Heartbreaking and sick

I'm against the death penalty, but stories like this test my resolve.

[LisaL]

65. They are underage.

They would not be eligible for the death penalty.
I at least hope they are tried as adults, cause if they are not tried as adults, I think even if convicted, the punishment will be light.

[BreweryYardRat]

72. Kill the sons of bitches. All ten of them.

This is why I like the death penalty. We just need to speed the process up in cases like these where the perpetrators are obviously guilty, so it doesn't waste the state's money.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

79. I'm sorry to inform you that crimes commited while under 18 can't get the DP.

No, wait, I'm not.

Let them get life in prison. That'll be just.

[BreweryYardRat]

83. Depends on the state. I think Florida can give minors the needle.

It did twice back in the '40s. A quick Google didn't turn anything up saying otherwise, but it did say that the death penalty is currently suspended after the botched Angel Diaz execution.

If I have to, I'll settle for life in prison for these bastards. Because someone may kill them there.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

90. Ahem.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A62584-2005Mar1.html

Again, sorry (not actually) to be the bearer of bad (not actually) news.

[BreweryYardRat]

92. Ah, thank you.

We may disagree, but I appreciate you citing your sources.

[Nutmegger]

132. Incorrect

Thankfully the Supreme Court abolished that.

Edit: Sorry, I noticed that you were notified about this in a reply to your post.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

134. Murder Is The Only Crime In Florida Eligble For The Death Penalty

I think it's that way in all fifty states per the Supreme Court...

You can get the DP for treason in federal court...

[jgraz]

80. Luckily, we don't have to worry about them getting punished

They're poor, young and black, so we really don't have to stress too much about them spending the rest of their lives in prison.

Can we now go back to talking about the rich, old white guys who are getting away with even worse atrocities?

[Missy Vixen]

96. Does it occur to you that to this family,

nothing that can be perpetrated on them by the "rich, old white guys" can be worse than what they've already gone through?

It is hard for me to believe that the parents of the perpetrators of this horrific act are involved or even care what their kids do when they're not around. I think punishing them as well would be appropriate.

Julie

[Name removed]

136. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Missy Vixen]

147. So, they have no responsibility at all?

>Bringing the parents in gets uncomfortably close to some far-right talking points<

I absolutely disagree.
If these children are minors, their parents are absolutely responsible for their behavior. If they are not, then, WHO IS?

BTW, if you are concerned about supposed "right wing talking points," you may want to review the site rules.

>one group of poor black children cannot hope to approach the horror or quantity of atrocities<

The mother and son victimized by this group of "children" will never be the same. Just the thought of what they went through would turn the average person's stomach. I'd also submit that there is no possible rehabilitation for anyone who would commit a crime of this nature.

Julie

[jgraz]

150. And those folks in New Orleans really should have left before Katrina hit

You could make a credible argument for parental responsibility had this been a group of suburban white kids, but to make that statement about kids raised in a housing project betrays a fairly high level of ignorance about the realities of growing up poor in an American city.

I'm no expert myself. I've only been in two housing projects in my life -- Cabrini Green and Ida B Wells -- and that was more than enough for me. No one who has ever seen one of these projects up-close would ever ask what their parents were doing or why the kids weren't supervised. For one, there are likely no "parents", just "parent" for each kid. And that parent was probably on her way to/from her third job when these kids did what they did. Also, that parent more than likely grew up in the those same projects, was exposed to drugs and vlolence from an early age and had her child (children) before she was old enough to vote.

You ask who's responsible? How about you? How about me? How about all of the people who have been shown again and again for the past 25 years the concentration-camp conditions in which poor children are raised and have chosen to ignore it and do nothing?

The only thing shocking about this crime is that it isn't happening every week. Hell, it probably is. This one just happened to catch a week when Paris Hilton wasn't doing much.


Oh, and if you think my post violates DU rules, feel free to alert it. I'd be interested in seeing if the mods agree with you.

[Bluebear]

97. 'even worse atrocities' - this ain't bad enough???

Come ON!

[jgraz]

131. My taxes didn't pay for this crime

They did, however, pay for this:

http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Seymour_Hersh_shocking_new_Abu_Ghraib_0617.html

Also, the people who perpetrated the acts described in the link are outside of any US law and immune from punishment, according to our justice system. While the boys in Florida will likely never see the outside of a prison again, the torturers and rapists of Abu Ghraib will be walking our streets and living in our neighborhoods.

[Elspeth]

112. Weren't the victims also poor and of color?

Don't they deserve some notice?

[jgraz]

133. Not really my point

My actual point is that this is a single horrible crime for which the perpetrators will almost certainly pay a dear price. Why aren't we calling for the deaths of the people responsible for thousands (or hundreds of thousands) of similar crimes?

At least this crime wasn't done in my name using my tax dollars under some bogus banner of "freedom".

[Horse with no Name]

81. Our society is sick

This particular act is heinous, but we have made torture acceptable.
It's not pretty when we see what we have created.

[Mike Daniels]

142. Oh give me a fucking break

People have committed similar acts of violence in the US well before we started torturing people in Iraq.

The number of excuses or reasons I've seen people put up that somehow tries to assign some other source of blame (poverty, Iraq, etc...) for these fuckers' actions is unreal.

[RockaFowler]

82. Here is an update from the Palm Beach Post

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/localnews/content/local_news/epaper/2007/07/07/s1b_juvenile_0707.html

Charges could net teen life sentence

WEST PALM BEACH — — A 16-year-old in chains and a jail jumpsuit sat in juvenile court Friday, with his mom and dad by his side, to face charges that could put him in prison for the rest of his life.

Nathan Walker is the second teenager charged in the June 18 gang rape at gunpoint of a 35-year-old woman and assault of her 12-year-old son at their Dunbar Village home.

SNIP

The victims, who kept to themselves in the crime-ridden complex, have since moved out of Dunbar. Their apartment is boarded up. They are trying to recover.

The victims were active in their church, and several members of the large Haitian congregation have tried to reach out, said the woman's pastor.

"She's not doing well, but she's tough," the pastor said. "She believes in God, and she hopes that God will take care of her and her family."

[AngryOldDem]

84. This story just about made me physically ill

There are just no words. My heart goes out to the mother and son.

[Anwen]

86. This makes me sick!!!

I wish I hadn't read it :(

[etherealtruth]

102. That is how I feel ...

:puke:

[MrSlayer]

87. And many will call me barbaric for suggesting they be executed for it.

Which is clearly what they deserve. There is no place on the planet for "people" like this.

[rug]

88. I'll start.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

93. Ah well, I'll have to settle for second. -nt

[Bluebear]

89. Our being one of the few countries that have the death penalty should give you a clue

Execute them, wait for the next one, execute them too, cheapen life, rinse and repeat.

This cycle has to stop somewhere. Let them fester in jail for 60 years thinking about what they did.

[mwb970]

145. They won't last 60 years in prison!

Certain kinds of crimes, like this one, result in those convicted being killed in prison by other inmates (remember Jeffrey Dahmer?). I'm not in favor of the death penalty, but these guys deserve it, whether they are executed formally by the state or informally by a prisoner.

[mitchum]

105. I certainly won't do that...

those monsters have given up any claim to human mercy or pity.

[Mike Daniels]

143. Yep, these fucks will brag and strut around for the rest of their lives in prison

about how "bad" they are.

People like this only feel bad that they were caught.

[Ghost in the Machine]

117. I won't call you barbaric.. I agree with you 100%

Animals like this are what makes me support the death penalty. They are totally unfit for society and paying to keep them in prison for the next 60 years is just a waste of taxpayer's dollars that could be spent helping a family or families that deserve it.

Life in prison ISN'T a punishment to some people because it gives them something they never had in their lives before... structure and discipline. They get a stable home, they get fed every day and they have free medical services, as well as access to educational and occupational training. Sure, they may not be able to leave the confines of the prison, but they can still live a reasonably normal life inside, hanging out with their friends they've made, their prison gang they joined, or whatever. The same can't be said for many of their victims.


I'll go one farther on you.. I support TELEVISED public executions.. show the criminals that we mean business. Justice needs to be swift and sure...

[Rabrrrrrr]

94. Ah, the benefit of forcing the impoverished and hopeless to squeeze in together into shitholes

:eyes:

[Xenotime]

98. Why does everyone have to come down on these two boys?!?

What they did is horrible, yes. But, where is your compassion?!? This wasn't * who did this. This was somebody so young. For them to do something like this, they must be hurting. What circumstances brought them to do these terrible acts?

[Bluebear]

99. You have got to be fucking kidding me. Is this some kind of parody of liberals?

[brentspeak]

101. I echo Bluebear: are you freaking serious?

:wow: :wow:

[Bluebear]

103. This must be one of those "Look what I found on DU" posts.

"See? See how soft the liberals are on crime?" :crazy:

[BlooInBloo]

104. Your concern is noted.

[mzmolly]

127. Is Bush the only person who is to be held responsible for his actions?

:crazy:

[fishwax]

128. are you saying you're outraged at the outrage?

:crazy:

[IndyJones]

137. Gosh, I don't know.

Let's get the 10 of them together and lock them in a room alone with you and the weapons they used on the mother and child and come back in a few hours to see if you still think we should give them compassion.

[mwb970]

146. My God. What would they have to do to lose your "compassion"?

The questions you raise are interesting, and should be discussed after the perpetrators have been executed.

[frogcycle]

148. whatever the circumstances that caused them to be sociopathic monsters

they are irretrievably damaged and the responses are spot on

should we be concerned that we live in a society that can produce these defectives? you bet! should we regret that they did not manage to survive as human beings; that they were turned into vicious sociopathic monsters? Sure. Just like we would regret all the people turned into vampires if the Dracula myth were to be true. But we'd be damned well driving stakes through their hearts.

[Rex]

108. What can be said?

Hello America, how are ya?

[BulletproofLandshark]

114. The liberal, law-respecting side of me wants these guys to receive due process

But my more vengeful side would like to see these monsters just get put down in the street.

[Forkboy]

149. At least you're capable of recognizing it for what it is...

Vengeance,not justice.

It's cases like this that make being against the Death Penalty very,very tough for me.I understand where you're coming from.

[RockaFowler]

154. Here is another update from the Palm Beach Post

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/localnews/content/local_news/epaper/2007/07/08/s1c_DUNBAR_SCENE_0708.html
Security measures added but residents still fearful

DUNBAR VILLAGE — By the time a 35-year-old woman was gang raped, robbed and beaten in her home, the sight of police tape and patrol cars were as familiar as clotheslines and headlights.

During the year leading up to the attack on the mother and her 12-year-old son on June 18, police responded to Dunbar Village 717 times, an average of about two times a day.

That amounts to more than three police calls a year for each of the 226 households in this West Palm Beach housing project.

All those cop calls to 17 acres surrounded by green bars. In one year, 15 stolen vehicles, 64 disturbances, 21 assaults, four shootings and four stabbings, according to police calls for service.

But then there is the one rape, believed to be committed by up to 10 of the community's children and their friends, hoodlums no older than 18. So far, two have been arrested: Avion Lawson, 14, and Nathan Walker, 16.

This crime shined a light on this community, not far from Palm Beach Lakes Boulevard and Australian Avenue.

"I haven't seen anything so targeted and brutal. People will try to intimidate by shooting - we have that down there - but this is completely different," said Laurel Robinson, executive director of the West Palm Beach Housing Authority. "We had to battle drug dealing. We had to battle shooting. The mind-set behind this is coming from a place I've never seen before. It becomes more of a terroristic activity than a criminal activity. It's beyond the beyond for me."

more at link . . .