NYT draws a line in the sand -- "Get Out of Iraq" Sunday editorial -- this is BIG!

[scarletwoman]

The Road Home

It is time for the United States to leave Iraq, without any more delay than the Pentagon needs to organize an orderly exit. (my bold)

•

Like many Americans, we have put off that conclusion, waiting for a sign that President Bush was seriously trying to dig the United States out of the disaster he created by invading Iraq without sufficient cause, in the face of global opposition, and without a plan to stabilize the country afterward.

At first, we believed that after destroying Iraq’s government, army, police and economic structures, the United States was obliged to try to accomplish some of the goals Mr. Bush claimed to be pursuing, chiefly building a stable, unified Iraq. When it became clear that the president had neither the vision nor the means to do that, we argued against setting a withdrawal date while there was still some chance to mitigate the chaos that would most likely follow.

<snip>

Continuing to sacrifice the lives and limbs of American soldiers is wrong. The war is sapping the strength of the nation’s alliances and its military forces. It is a dangerous diversion from the life-and-death struggle against terrorists. It is an increasing burden on American taxpayers, and it is a betrayal of a world that needs the wise application of American power and principles.

A majority of Americans reached these conclusions months ago. Even in politically polarized Washington, positions on the war no longer divide entirely on party lines. When Congress returns this week, extricating American troops from the war should be at the top of its agenda. (my bold)

DO read the whole piece -- it's two pages long, so my snips can hardly do it justice.

This is rather a watershed moment -- America's "Paper of Record" is calling for withdrawal.

sw

[Ron Green]

1. Yeah, wasn't that rag complicit in the build-up to this rotten war?

I was against it from 2002. Am I smarter than the New York Times?

[TahitiNut]

2. When the Judy Millers can't find a job ever again, I'll regain some faith in the corporate media.

Until then, such stances are mere matters of convenience ... like getaway cars for bank robbers.

[anitar1]

4. I will never regain faith in corporate media. Ever. n/t

[scarletwoman]

6. Of COURSE it's just a "getaway car"! I'm not saying that this makes the NYT any less culpable for

all the crap that the Ruling Class has foisted on us. All I'm saying is that this appears to be a notable shift in that quarter. This editorial doesn't make them any less execrable, it just means that there's apparently a shift happening in the plutocracy.

[TahitiNut]

10. Thanks for understanding the metaphor. Yes, I agree it's worth noting when WORMS TURN.

They're still worms.

:loveya: :yourock:

[scarletwoman]

12. Yup. Worms. And I'm a real hungry Northern Pike.

:D

[scarletwoman]

3. Hey, LOTS of us were "smarter than the New York Times". Yet the reality remains that THEIR voice is

bigger than OUR voices.

Yes, the NYT has been one of the biggest war enablers and purveyers of propagandist crap. The thing is, taking all of that into account, the fact that they are NOW saying "get out" truly represents a major shift.

This new stance in no way exonerates them for past (and ongoing) shilling for the MIC, but it IS a significant signal the Ruling Class has turned against the Iraq project.

sw

[calimary]

17. Yes, and far less fearful. As many, many, many, many of us were.

I keep going back to that testimony that former MP George Galloway gave while purportedly facing some sort of republi-CON inquisition at the hands of smarmy normy coleman. "Everything I said about the war turned out to be right, and everything you said about the war turned out to be wrong, and 100,000 people have paid with their lives..." and he went on to mention the at-the-time 1,600 American soldiers, and all the waste and the devastation. And smarmy normy looked at him with that deer-in-the-headlights expression on his face, and shortly thereafter called the committee into recess. I don't know that they ever reconvened.

I digress.

But we were there. We knew. We tried to warn them. Better late than never. But those who add that the NYTimes is mightily influential and truly the big time are correct. That the NYTimes has come around to this, at long last, is VERY significant. Even if it's lost its luster and a lot of its credibility (which it has, thank you judy miller), people still pay attention to what it prints.

This is pretty big, alright.

[charlie]

5. It's swell and all

But it galls me when these wrong-from-the-git idjits deliver their late epiphany as solemn pronouncements from Wise Men, like here:

It is possible, we suppose, that announcing a firm withdrawal date might finally focus Iraq’s political leaders and neighboring governments on reality. Ideally, it could spur Iraqi politicians to take the steps toward national reconciliation that they have endlessly discussed but refused to act on.

But it is foolish to count on that, as some Democratic proponents of withdrawal have done. The administration should use whatever leverage it gains from withdrawing to press its allies and Iraq’s neighbors to help achieve a negotiated solution.

Who the fuck are they talking about? Who's counting on that? Name names! And who the fuck are they to lecture ANYONE about "foolish(ness)" in regard to Iraq?

[scarletwoman]

7. Good! Stay angry! Write an LTTE! I KNOW they are assholes!

All I was trying to do is to point out that even one of the WORST of the MSM assholes has apparently had enough.

I'm NOT defending the NYT, just pointing out their interesting change of tune.

sw

[charlie]

8. Oh, I know

I'm just venting. Those "we sat on the NSA spying story for a year because we didn't want to influence the election" idiots manage to steam my clams anew almost every week :)

[scarletwoman]

9. Yeah, they are SCUM -- but they are influential scum whether we like it or not.

That's why I considered this post-worthy.

[charlie]

13. Right. I agree

It's a seemingly decisive sea-change (I say seemingly, because they still couldn't resist doing that "but of course, we aren't be as naive as some Democrats" rear-guard bullshit). I'm just unable to accept much from them anymore without an eyeroll and an upraised middle finger :)

[scarletwoman]

14. I'm totally in agreement with you! Let our upraised middle fingers never flag! (nt)

[charlie]

15. Lol

Not to worry. My bird finger is as supple as Nijinsky and strong as the Hulk, thanks to the New York Times Workout^TM.

[Bolo Boffin]

11. Hot Damn!

The Times comes in from the cold in a big way.

[Decruiter]

16. Can we just DANCE! I want a happy dance all around!!

Well there isn't a happy dance for me so I tried to make a line or two of

:woohoo:
:applause:
and
:bounce: I tried to make a line or two of each, failed miserably and decided maybe it was too much energy to use.

So here it is, a :woohoo: with loads of :applause: and two or three :bounce: 's thrown in for good measure. I thought there was a happy dance around.

[Peace Patriot]

18. They want to move on to Iran. Nuff said. nt

[Hekate]

19. It's about time. nt

[TexasLawyer]

20. E&P has an article about it

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1272952

[Laurier]

21. NYT = M$M

I'm confused.

If we're not supposed to buy anything the M$M because it's full of shit, why should we buy something the M$M says just because it says something that we agree with, for a change?

[scarletwoman]

23. Your question makes no sense. There's nothing to "buy" from an opinion piece. (nt)

[ljm2002]

24. Oh for the love of pete...

...try to score cheap points much?

All of us are aware of the NYT's track record on Iraq. However, as the OP notes, the NYT is still the US's "paper of record" and has now come out very strongly in favor of immediate withdrawal. And that is worthy of note, because they still exert tremendous influence.

Now is that so hard to understand?

Sheesh.

[uppityperson]

27. You are confused. eom

[Warren DeMontague]

22. Good. Glad they said it. Now, let me say this: THANKS FOR NOTHING, FUCKNUTS.

It's like the GOP senators who "all of a sudden" realize that the war needs to end. Are those of us who were against this clusterfuck from the get-go, before it even started, going to get an apology for the mountains of rhetorical shit that were thrown at us? Some sort of mea culpa for the times we were called unpatriotic, treasonous Merka-haters? Think the Dixie Chicks could get some of those death threats retracted?

Are we even going to get a tacit acknowledgement along the lines of, "Hey- you guys were right. Maybe we ought to listen to you more often"

Not bloody likely. Thanks alot, NY Times. Good. Welcome aboard the out-of-Iraq bus. If you have trouble finding a seat, maybe it's because some of us have took ours four and a half fucking years ago.

[applegrove]

25. The NYTimes is making up for lost time. Good for them.

[scarletwoman]

26. Sunday evening kick...