A response I got from someone who sent me a canned jingoistic email

[devilgrrl]

Here's a post I made yesterday regarding a supposed incident involving an ungrateful immigrant. Several of you were kind enough to post an article from snopes which then sent back to the person who emailed the "story."

Here is that person's response:
For me the authenticity isn't the importance. I just hear so many that respond negatively about our country, our people and others not holding citizenship in the US etc, that don't appreciate some of the basic freedoms we have. It isn't a perfect world we live in and neither are the people. I personally hold that if you don't like it here, please return to wherever you resided prior to entering the US. My grandparents originated in Russia, lost everything during the Bolshevik revolution and my grandfather often commented to the effect of 'what spoiled people the US citizens are'. He knew the differences and lived it first hand. So I pass the email as a reminder to keep our country free. I do not out of promote invading another's land or medling with another's government because some little man such G. Bush who enacted this war deemed it politically correct.

This calls for a reply, I intend on asking this person where they are hearing about these ungrateful immigrants and why a fake incident should be viewed as a regular occurrence. There are so many things wrong with this, I don't know where to start.

[Hissyspit]

1. Criticizing the country and the government is not the same as not wanting to be a citizen.

It's nonsense to say that. They can't come up with any other cogent argument, so they fall back on that. Totalitarian nonsense.

[havocmom]

2. Well, I'd be tempted....

to write them that since "authenticity isn't the importance" bush eats babies and we all know it. Them inquire whether authenticity might matter after all. Then, go on and list the death estimates in the Iraq invasion/occupation, which was a war founded on information which was not authentic.

Then, adjust your email filter so any further drivel from this person will not bother you further. No point in trying to debate with someone who disregards truth when it doesn't support their narrow world view.

[baldguy]

14. No, no, no - CHENEY'S the one who eats babies

[mrreowwr_kittty]

3. So why didn't she tell her grandfather to go back to Russia?

After all, he was complaining about his new country wasn't he? "'what spoiled people the US citizens are'." Perhaps he would have been more comfortable among the sturdier people of his homeland. So she's not only basing her opinion on unsubstantiated b.s., but she's being selective about which immigrants she's going to chastise for their lack of gratitude.

[xchrom]

4. fake is fake, period. -- it's the same as a lie.

now i'm supposed to believe the story about his or her grandfather?

hmmmmph.

who is this person that they have appointed themselves as arbiters of other peoples reactions, lifestyles, attitudes, or what ever....

we have a world FULL of people telling others how they should or shouldn't live with all sorts of self righteous indignation -- in fact if it weren't for porn -- i'd say the internet was made for them.

tell this person to get the log out of their own eye before trying to get the splinter from someone elses.

[NMDemDist2]

5. my response would be

America was founded on the belief in Free Speech.

to quote a wonderful film's leading character's speech

America isn't easy. America is advanced citizenship. You've gotta want it bad, 'cause it's gonna put up a fight. It's gonna say, "You want free speech? Let's see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil, who's standing center stage and advocating at the top of his lungs that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours." You want to claim this land as the land of the free? Then the symbol of your country cannot just be a flag. The symbol also has to be one of its citizens exercising his right to burn that flag in protest. Now show me that, defend that, celebrate that in your classrooms.

Then you can stand up and sing about the land of the free.


If you want to talk fake, there you go (with a civics lesson included at no charge)

[Divernan]

6. Pure Cheney: "The authenticity isn't the importance."

Sounds like some slick operative getting paid to circulate such crap. Excellent point that her alleged grandfather was an "ungrateful immigrant" and in her own words "often" critical of US citizens.

But the basic flaw in her "reasoning" is that lying, i.e, spreading untruths, is both immoral (Commandment No. Nine - Thou shalt not bear false witness against your neighbor) and ILLEGAL (spoken untruths are slander; written untruths are libel). Playing fast and loose with the truth seems to be a basic GOP trait.

[yewberry]

7. I'd start with

the fact that authenticy does matter. A feel-good, flag-waving lie is still a lie. Look at it from the other end: if someone was promoting a nasty lie about Americans or American soldiers, wouldn't that bother you? It would certainly bother me. It does bother me.

Stories like this one portray immigrants as ungrateful and disloyal to the US, and this kind of stereotype is harmful to all immigrants, some of whom love this country and fight for her (whether or not they think that her people are 'spoiled.') Also, stories like this diminish the reality of the damage that war and armed occupation do, trivializing bombing and civilian casualties so that they neatly become a whine that can be dismissed by 'real' Americans.

I'd comment on the final sentence, but it is so jumbled and badly constructed that I am unsure of its intended meaning.

[C_U_L8R]

8. Naturally authenticity isn't important to this person

he/she was the one trying to pass this bullshit story off as true !!!

Blah blah blah... they got caught lying again. No exception.

And that's the bigger moral of this story.. Republicans will
say and do anything... especially lie and cheat... to advance
their own agenda. You should thank your friend for once again
proving that point.

[ljm2002]

9. "For me the authenticity isn't the importance."

That about says it all, doesn't it.

No reply can possibly change this person's outlook. They have already decided. And like a true Republic, they will use anything to support their position, with no regard to its truth or falsity. Because the ends justify the means in their little pea brains.

My advice is give it up. Or better yet, just throw their own statement back in their face. Just reply to them, "Thanks for acknowledging that authenticity is not important to you. I've always suspected it but it is good to have it confirmed from the horse's as... er, mouth. I will remind you of that whenever you try and hold someone else up to moral scrutiny. Thanks again!"

[knitter4democracy]

10. Wait, it only takes e-mail to keep us free?

"So I pass the email as a reminder to keep our country free." That's all it takes? An e-mail? Well, then we can surely bring our troops home, since all we have to do is send around propaganda e-mails. :eyes:

[IDemo]

11. I have "replied to all" with Snopes on two occasions

And had the same response: "Well, he (Robin Williams, George Carlin) may not have said it, but I agree completely with the sentiment."

[Bluebear]

12. 'For me the authenticity isn't the importance.' - very GOP. nt

[baldguy]

13. The truth isn't something unthinking sheep value.

It is something that the founders of this country valued. The fact is the very same people who say "America love it or leave it," don't love ALL of this this country - just their tiny little part of it: they hate diversity, they hate ideas that are different from their own, and they voted for Bush.

[Elspeth]

15. Tell this friend that a fake story destroys the credibility of both the writer and the message

Tell your buddy that, while you respect his feelings, you cannot respect the use of fake stories to support his argument. Tell him that when he has a real story, you'll be happy to listen.

[silverojo]

16. Come to the border states

You'll hear lots of ungrateful immigrants telling citizens how they should "go back to Europe", waving other countries' flags on their houses, the whole bit.

While I don't buy into the right-wing's "my country right or wrong" bullshit, I do get tired of people coming here and telling us how evil we supposedly are.

It always makes me wonder, if they hate us and our country so much, why do they come here?

Most immigrants who come here are passionately patriotic, hard-working, and generally wonderful people. But there's always that contingent of people to whom you just want to say, "Shut the @#$% up and go back home, if you hate us so much."

Sadly, they're the people giving all immigrants a bad name. :(

[Redneck Socialist]

17. I heard that the person who sent you that e mail fucks goats.

I don't know if that is true or not but since "...authenticity isn't the importance" I choose to believe it and you're un-american if you don't.

That's what I'd e mail 'em back.

:shrug:

But that's just me.

[devilgrrl]

18. My response...

I haven't sent it yet. Help me snazz it up without being too huge of a jerk about it.

Well, for me authenticity is important, very important. To say that authenticity isn't important sounds like something Dick Cheney would say. In fact, I would dare state that the lack of authenticity is precisely why this nation is in the predicament that it is. As for keeping our country free, our personal freedoms have never been so threatened as they have been for the past six years under this administration. They have done more damage to our reputation as a nation worldwide that it is no wonder people talk shit about us - they are doing this under OUR name. A lie is a lie is a lie.

Who are these ungrateful immigrants that you speak of? Here in Los Angeles, I run into immigrants all the time, I have yet to meet one that outright hated it here. And if they do, that only means that they hate LA and not the rest of the United States. That happens a lot around here.