I'm beginning to think that Al Gore is now bigger than RFK was to my generation in 1968.

[Seabiscuit]

Seriously. My generation of activists were ecstatic when RFK threw his hat into the presidential race ring in early 1968. Until then we were working for Eugene McCarthy, the only anti-(Vietnam) war candidate on the horizon. Once McCarthy trounced Hubert Humphrey in the New Hampshire primary (Humphrey was Lyndon Johnson's VP and a consistent apologist for Johnson's war), RFK finally realized the country was ready for him, and he declared his candidacy. RFK was our hero far more than JFK had ever been. And they killed him for it, paving the way for a Nixon defeat of Humphrey, as Nixon falsely presented himself as the "anti-war" candidate, saying he had a "secret plan to end the war" while portraying Humphrey as the pro-war candidate he was.

And now we have Al Gore. The guy the media labeled as "wooden" in 2000 while labeling that Bush scumbag as "the guy you'd like to have a beer with".

Al Gore has proven himself not only as worthy of our enthusiasm as a presidential candidate as RFK did in 1968, he has eclipsed anyone and everyone I can think of in history as possessing the experience and human qualities neede to lead this country out of the hold the neocons have dug us.

OK, some of you may want to slam me for sounding like John Lennon when he stepped off the plane in NYC and told a reporter the Beatles were "bigger than Jesus", or some such thing. Fine. Flail away. I'll flail right back, mind you...

[WCGreen]

1. You got your history a little mixed up...

McCarthy came in a strong second to LBJ in New Hampshire and LBJ, seeing the handwriting on the wall, went on national TV and told the country he had decided not to run for a second full term...

[Seabiscuit]

2. You're right.

Humphrey entered the race after Johnson made his "I will not seek" the Presidency speech, two weeks after RFK declared his candidacy.

[aquart]

3. I was NOT ecstatic when that SOB declared.

We went thru fire to get our McCarthy slate elected and that piece of work just waltzes in and grabs for it all?

Spoiled, entitled brat. You worship him if you want. I wanted to slap him silly.

[Seabiscuit]

4. I don't get it.

"Spoiled, entitled brat"?

That's the kind of thing they say in freepervill about RFK. Unlike McCarthy, RFK had been doing battle with Johnson for years over Vietnam, both in the Senate and in the press. He publicly embarassed him. He was afraid to run because his brother had been assassinated and he blamed himself for going after the mafia, etc., as JFK's Attorney General. He didn't steal anything from "Clean Gene". He just refocused everyone's energy.

McCarthy was no saint any more so than RFK. So what?

[aquart]

6. Refocused, my ass.

He let us do all the work and then he walked in and grabbed.

And our energy was very well focused, thank you.

If he was such a bloody savior, why didn't he declare at the start, instead of letting other people clear the way for his sweet little entitled ass.

"He didn't steal..." Oh, is that what his supporters tell themselves. Goody. You're nice and whitewashed and nobody remembers the man with the guts who did the real work. Hollywood isn't rushing to do Gene McCarthy movies. I was there. I don't know where the hell you were.

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[aquart]

41. Why does my gender matter?

Unless, of course, you treat people differently based on gender.

Why did you even look?

[murielm99]

14. I was there.

I resented the hell out of Humphrey for getting the nomination. But I came from a politically active family. We campaigned for Humphrey because he was our nominee.

McCarthy sat out the election season. He should have campaigned for Humphrey. I remember going door-to-door and hearing many people say they were not going to vote, since Bobby had died. McCarthy could have gotten some of those people to vote.

He resigned from the Foreign Relations Committee, which I think did real harm. I remember a friend of mine handing me an article about it, and I could not believe it. His voice and vote on that committee could have continued to be effective.

And he did not run for the Senate seat in 1970. To me, he seemed disgruntled. I didn't like him much any more, after the 1968 election. He still had time to do some good, but he walked away.

Gore walked away from politics, but found a way to be a positive force. McCarthy did not.

[Seabiscuit]

15. Very good points about McCarthy. RFK wasn never like that.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

22. Wow Just Wow

Hollywood isn't rushing to do Gene McCarthy movies because he didn't take a cap behind the ear... I'll make you a deal... Take back the fucken movie and give me Bobby...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

29. "You're nice and whitewashed and nobody remembers the man with the guts who did the real work"

Yeah, we rememember the father of ten who knew running for president would entail great physical danger to himself, and got a cap in the ear for his efforts...

[Toasterlad]

46. Aquart...Just Where WERE You on June 6th, 1968, Around 12:15???

:tinfoilhat:

[DefenseLawyer]

50. Of course Gene had no chance to win

a general election, but so what, right? The more things change the more they stay the same.

[Hippo_Tron]

13. McCarthy had zero chance of getting the nomination

The party insiders would've never allowed it. Kennedy would've had the ability to use his name and his connections to get the insiders to begrudgingly accept him. He also had far more appeal to African Americans and working class people than McCarthy did. The bottom line is that Kennedy could've become the first person to be elected President while opposing US involvement in a war and McCarthy couldn't have.

Yes, Kennedy absolutely had unfair entitlements that allowed him to walk all over McCarthy. But you have to respect the fact that he would've used those entitlements to end the Vietnam War, help poor people, and advance civil rights. George W Bush is a perfect example of what most people with those kinds of entitlements use them for.

[murielm99]

17. But did Kennedy have a real chance

to get the nomination? I have always wondered.

Humphrey was not going the primary route. He was going around, calling in his favors and collecting delegates the old-fashioned way, the way power broker way. I think it is possible Humphrey would still have gotten the nod.

Johnson was sitting back, thinking that the party would call on him at the last minute to come back and run again. He was so unpopular by then that that was unrealistic. As someone who had been a real powerhouse in the Senate, Johnson should have known better.

To this day, I am not convinced that Bobby was a shoe-in.

[Hippo_Tron]

18. Not a shoe-in, but he stood a very good chance

Remember that Kennedy ran his brother's campaign in 1960 and they beat Johnson on the first ballot. So he wasn't exactly a novice at the kinds of politics needed to secure a nomination through the convention process. Given how the dynamics of the '68 convention with the anti-war protesters it would've been one hell of a sight to see Kennedy face off with Humphrey for the nomination.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

23. Who Knows?

The primary process was a lot less transparent in 68... And where does the 15% Wallace vote from the general election go... In 72 it all went to Nixon...

So many variables...

[WinkyDink]

37. You're joking? Hello? California?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

38. The Nominating Process Was A Lot Less Transparent Back Then...

It would have been a Hell of a convention fight...

And what happens to Wallace in the general election... A Kennedy-Nixon Two would have been something to watch...

[WinkyDink]

56. Wallace was an Independent in 1968.

[Seabiscuit]

52. "Entitlements"

*may* be "unfair". Certainly we think of Bush as "unfairly" entitled because he abuses them.

People like FDR and the Kennedys used their "entitlements" for the good of the country.

Entitlement is not in and of itself an ugly or evil or even "unfair" thing. Some people earn them, some inherit some of them while earning the rest of them, some, like Bush inherit them it all and squander and abuse the privileges given them.

[Hippo_Tron]

55. Well, I can understand McCarthy supporters being resentful...

I'm okay with McCarthy supporters resenting Kennedy because he was able to jump in after McCarthy made it safe for him to do so and walk all over McCarthy because of his connections and his last name. It certainly was unfair to McCarthy, but if life usually isn't fair and politics is never fair.

It is important to recognize that no matter which of them you supported, they both would have done great things as President.

[melody]

19. Spoiled, entitled brat? God, I wish we had more spoiled, entitled brats like him instead of shrubby

George Bush, the alcoholic, drug-addicted, brain-addled fortunate son? I'll take "spoiled, entitled brats" like
RFK over that loser any day.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

20. Why Don't You Go To Arlington , Disinter Him, And Slap Him

Unfuckingbelievable...

[aquart]

40. Not to worship Bobby Kennedy?

Good heavens.

Wrong to be upset when he barged into the race after the McCarthy people had done all the legwork?

Gracious me.

He didn't become a saint because he was assassinated. Or did he?

You sound like you think I danced and gloated when he was killed. How ridiculous. How black and white.

My mom woke me with the news. Like everyone else in the country, we were stricken. Carried a radio to work and didn't wear my McCarthy button that day, because gloating was the last thing on my mind.

Everything changed after the murder. I worked McCarthy rallies at the Felt Forum (MSG) before and after and the difference was frightening. McCarthy was the first person who made me understand the meaning of the word "charisma." He went up to people, shook hands, looked into their eyes...and touched us. Lotta denial of that here, I notice. But there weren't any empty seats at those rallies. Were they really filled only with white college students?

But the difference after the murder: McCarthy was ringed by Secret Service agents. They kept him at a distance. He wasn't allowed into the crowd or to touch anyone. There's actually a photograph of me that appeared in the NY Post with a caption about an exhausted volunteer. They shot that picture the second I realized that it was over for McCarthy. That keeping him away from the people altered the dynamic so badly we had no chance. It wasn't exhaustion they captured. It was loss of hope.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

32. I am without words.

Let's just say I'm placing this reply here for future reference. :wow:

[WinkyDink]

36. Politics ain't tiddlywinks. Bobby touched the masses; McCarthy, though

he had the collegiate "Clean for Gene" youth, didn't.

[aquart]

39. Well, I was one of the thousands of college students

Who worked our tails off for McCarthy while Kennedy sat on his ass.

So sorry to interfere with the idolatry here. Me, I don't refer to the American people as "masses," however. I guess because it sounds superior, separatist, and condescending.

Go worship Bobby. In my family, we never forgave him for working for the other McCarthy.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

42. Eugene McCarthy Catered To Elites..

His support was non-existent in Latino, African American, and working class white communities...

[WinkyDink]

57. Well, in 1968 I was one of those college students who wanted Bobby to win. And I was an English

major.

So YOU can go on in your idolatry of the Poet-Politician. So sorry your family can't get over Bobby's early stint. It wasn't noble, but he wasn't the same in 1968. As for McCarthy: "In August of 1964, McCarthy supported the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution...." http://www.ncs.pvt.k12.va.us/ryerbury/wes/wes.htm Can't have everything.

As for my use of "the masses", I'm using it in the sense of "humanity". You know, as in the ones who lined up on the railroad tracks to say farewell to the usurper.

(FYI: The "condescending" term is "folks".)

[nini]

43. why didn't Mc Carthy get the nomination after Bobby was killed then?

:shrug:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

44. Because He Was A One Issue Candidate With Narrow Support

eom

[glitch]

48. I am shocked at the ugliness of your statements. nt

[Seabiscuit]

5. OK, time to refocus on Al Gore, which this thread is really about - not RFK.

[AlGore-08.com]

8. I can't comment on RFK Sr since I was a kid during that time

But I agree, Gore is definitely in a different class than any other leader on the world stage.

[Seabiscuit]

9. Let's put it this way:

I don't recall seeing such overwhelming enthusiasm for anyone in the political arena since RFK's presidential candidacy in 1968 until yesterday's concert, essentially sponsored and mc'd by Al Gore.

[girl_interrupted]

12. Seabiscut ... Before my time too... But I do know this

Once RFK Sr was assassinated, Eugene McCarthy then had the chance to continue his campaign, which he did and it was not successful. Democrats nominated Hubert Humprey instead. There was a split between anti war democrats, who first had asked Kennedy to run and he initally refused, then Eugene McCarthy. Kennedy was asked to run again, because it was thought he had the best chance to win the election. Here's a very interesting footnote to Eugene McCarthy, in 1980 he endorsed Ronald Reagan for president. Go figure!


Anyways I agree with you about Al Gore, and after attending the Live Earth concert in NJ...I wish Al Gore would "waltz" in & "steal" the 2008 nomination!

I was so impressed with Robert Kennedy Jr too! It gave me chills just listening to him.

I still haven't come down to Earth, what an amazing experience. That Gore could arrange all that....well it just shows how much we could have had, if he had taken his rightful place in the 2000 election!

Now here's hoping he will in 2008!

[Seabiscuit]

16. Thank you for your insights and I share your hope!

[Chipper Chat]

10. Yesterday when Melissa introduced Al Gore

I actually got goose pimples when he walked out on the stage.
And I'm a very stoic, reserved, and crusty old fart.
Has Mr. Wooden become Mr. Charisma?

[Seabiscuit]

11. Yes, the MSM got it all wrong. Mr. Charisma was never quite Mr. Wooden. n/t

[DemocratSinceBirth]

21. Please...

I respect Al Gore... I campaigned for him... I met him when he came to Orlando...Tipper kissed my mom who's confined to a wheelchair... But he's not Robert Francis Kennedy... I don't even think Al Gore thinks he is... Bobby Kennedy had a magical ability to connect and to empathize that is rare in a politician....

[Apollo11]

24. Al Gore is this generation's Al Gore

Let's all find ways to show our support for Al Gore! :patriot:

Sign the Live Earth Pledge: www.liveearthpledge.org

Then ask all your friends and family to sign it too! :-)

Visit Al's site www.algore.com and read his blog http://blog.algore.com

Sign the petitions at www.algore.org and www.draftgore.com

:kick:

[H2O Man]

25. Lennon didn't say that

when he stepped off an airplane. It was something he said in an offhand way to a reporter in England, where the comment went practically unnoticed.

When RFK did get into the '68 primaries, he split the support of the younger generation with McCarthy. He did create a great excitement with a large portion of the country, that included older progressives, many in the anti-war and civil rights movements, and the younger generation. The circumstances were different, but both men are examples of an inspirational type of leadership. Both men focus on the positive potentials of our society.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

26. Except There Was Almost Zero Excitement For McCarthy

among African Americans, Hispanics, and working class whites...

I can still rememember seeing Bobby Kennedy campaign with Cesar Chavez and in predominately African American communities...

I don't like to pit one Democratic leader against another but none had Robert Kennedy's ability to empathize...

[H2O Man]

28. Right.

Good point. I remember this infamous exchange:

A McCarthy campaign worker asked Eugene's daughter, "How's the Senator this morning?"

Mary replied, "Oh! Alienated as usual."

Even those closest to him -- perhaps especially those closest to him -- were frustrated by McCarthey's emotional detachment, and his attitude was clearly one of a man who felt he was doing a real favor to people by allowing them to work long, hard hours for him.

RFK's brief campaign had an energy and held a promise that no other presidential campaign has ever had. Though it didn't mean much at the time in the context of actual votes, RFK had the support of traditional Native Americans. Towards the end of his wonderful book on RFK, Arthur Schlesinger Jr quotes some of the Indian people who contacted Ethel after Robert was killed. "We loved him, too, Mrs. Kennedy. Loving a public official for an Indian is almost unheard of, as history bears out. We trusted him. Unheard of, too, for an Indian. We had faith in him," a Seneca wrote.

In what Arthur described as "a fine sentence," Vine Deloria noted that RFK "could move from world to world and never be a stranger anywhere." He wrote that Indians "saw him as a warrior, the white Crazy Horse." (pages 853-54)

[DemocratSinceBirth]

30. I Remember When Bobby Won Indiana Thanks To A Huge African American Vote

and Ethel said " I wish all the voters were black"...


I don't want to make Robert Kennedy into a cardboard saint because we all know there was another side but he had grown so much as a person by the time of his death that he was as close to a saint that this political system can produce...

[H2O Man]

31. There are times

when I see a clip of him speaking from '68 (or at the '64 convention) when I still get choked up.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

33. Here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPYNb4ex6Ko

[Gabi Hayes]

53. Thanks, as always, H20 Man. though I remain somewhat ambivalent about RFK, due to his

earlier incarnations, I think he may have grown/evolved, as did his brother

what really got to me was an interview with David Talbot, whose new book posits that RFK was ASSASSINATED because he was going to reopen the assasination of his brother

according to Talbot, the man (can't remember his name) who was physically closest to RFK as he took his final breath say his last word was "Jack"

can you stand that?

some ahole on another thread said that quote is a lie, btw.

I'd like to find out who the person whose name I can't recall is, and find out if anyone else hear it

[murielm99]

34. One of the things few seem to remember

is that a lot of us working for both men were not old enough to vote. We had to be 21 to vote then. That left out many of the college kids.

I remember all those Keep Clean for Gene kids at the convention. I think many of them were under 21. I was 20 during that election, unable to vote until the following Presidential election. I was still working.

[H2O Man]

35. Good points.

Both men offered young people an opportunity to be invested in the political process. The McCarthy forces showed how well organized and energetic the under-21 forces could be. It is interesting to consider how different it might have been if 18-year olds had the vote.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

27. Small Correction

Humphrey wasn't on the ballot in the 68 N H primary...Johnson beat McCarthy 49% -42% as a write in candidate... That close victory was rightfully perceived as a loss for an incumbent president... Johnson shortly withdrew from the race:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Hampshire_primary


I was only at the time but my mom was heavily involved in politics and I followed the campaign with as much acumen as a ten year old can muster...


My autographed picture of Bobby Kennedy still sits on my dresser drawers after all these years...


PEACE

[Toasterlad]

45. Let's Hope Things Work Out a Little Better for Al than They Did for Bobby.

[OneBlueSky]

47. a Gore/RFK Jr. ticket would win in a landslide . . . n/t

.

[RestoreGore]

49. Oh, so he wasn't worthy before?

And I think he would be the first to tell you that this isn't about him. He hasn't done any of this to be bigger than anyone else. He did it to awaken us.

[Elspeth]

51. You know, if I drank beer, I'd have one with Al Gore

But I only drink white wine with dinner.

[MrMickeysMom]

54. I'm inclined to think even more so...

Some of my thoughts come from also being a reader of Joseph Campbell. I see Gore's role as that of THE real "hero's journey".

Mellisa Ethridge put it square during her set at Live Earth when talking about him. Gore entered the field of politics, then he discovered af few things, then he stepped back at a moment he could (many say should) have done something predictable to turn around the (stolen) election in 2000. However, what decided to do at that point was to step back and examined his first set of goals which made him come into politics. He realized coming full circle he had a much large picture.

The whole world's at stake. He's frankly bigger than Jesus to me at this point.