The 'take the Cindy campaign elsewhere' meme was manufactured to cause strife here.

[Swamp Rat]

And it is working.

Already many good DUers have been roped into it and have begun attacking their long-time DU colleagues.

Also, please notice that there are a few well-known trolls and DLC sycophants egging it on.

The gratuitous Cindy bashing is embarrassing for DU and for me, someone who really cares about her.

Does DU want to lose some more good people this week?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. No kidding.

What a bunch of bullshit.

[conscious evolution]

161. I agree 100%

Divide and conquer is one of the oldest political strategies there is.It blows my mind that some people still actually fall for it.

[Swamp Rat]

164. Good thing I just re-read Machiavelli's "Il Principe" the other day.

;)

It had been a couple of years, but then I saw it gathering dust as I was cleaning. I immediately put it on the 're-reading list' along with the U.S. Constitution, the Declaration of Independence, Articles of Confederation, et al for my 4th of July reading.

Now, I am really glad I did!! :D ;)

"The British are coming... the Bushlers are coming!!" :D :kick:

[conscious evolution]

169. I need to re-read it myself

The only part I remember is this-"There is no undertaking more hazardous then attempting to change the established order."
I learned this the hard way before I ever read his book and I see no signs that that fact will ever change.

[kenfrequed]

247. Impeach Bush

A nonsequitor is the only response we should be giving to weak kneed divisive DLC types or Re-pug-nik moles that lurk about pushing these threads the extra few inches of text.

[kenfrequed]

249. but...

Yeah Swampy I agree with you, this one should never have gone this far.

[MuseRider]

2. SwampRat

:loveya:

You are the best!

[Swamp Rat]

8. And so are you!

:hug:

[King Coal]

292. Can you bring me up to speed!

What is the essence of the 'take the Cindy campaign elsewhere' occurrence?

[sandnsea]

3. 39% favor impeachment

Change minds to change votes. Beating Nancy up doesn't change a thing. Cindy's wrong. It is possible ya' know.

YOUR thread isn't helpful either. You're doing the same kind of bashing you're complaining about.

[PDJane]

9. I don't believe Cindy's wrong, but that's not the topic......

The topic is that bashing the hell out of a wonderful woman with an opinion and spine isn't going to make anyone feel better.

Accept differences of opinion in these two women, stop worrying about placing blame, and work to improve the situation as best you can in your own sphere. Getting the criminals out of washington should be a priority, not beating one another up about the methodology.

Enough, already. The OP is correct in this; I don't really want to read those things here either.

[sandnsea]

Some comments were ridiculous

But it's equally ridiculous to complain about the bashing while saying anyone who disagrees with Cindy is a troll.

[rurallib]

13. Sorry, but I see nothing wrong with competition and primaries.

Sometimes it gets issues out into the public that some folks do not wish to speak of. This is still America.
I personally could give a crap if Cindy challenges Pelosi. But she is entitled to do so as a citizen. There is nothing wrong with discussing impeachment.

[sandnsea]

46. And others can think she's wrong

Where would the democracy part of elections come in if people can't say she's wrong?

[1monster]

19. Cindy doesn't have the right to run for a Congressional seat that she thinks she can do better?

Wow. I guess the Great Experiment really is dead.

I thought that anyone who had a calling to run for Congress had a right to. Period.

[sandnsea]

48. It's a waste of time and energy

And the Great Experiment is really and truly dead if people aren't allowed to say so.

[Bluzmann57]

73. Read the post again

I believe the gentleman stated that Sheehan has the right to run against Pelosi if she so chooses. She is a citizen and as such, certainly can give it a shot. My personal opinion is that Sheehan has no chance whatsoever, but if she can bring some issues out, then she will be doing some good. Any republican challenger Pelosi may have is probably real happy right about now though.

[Imagevision]

268. What r u serious?!! Deputy Dawg can do better then pelosi, she's a phoney!!

all talk no results!!

[OzarkDem]

23. More like 52% favor impeachment

According to the latest Zogby Poll. DC Dems need to get in touch with public opinion. People are fed up and frustrated.

http://www.democrats.com/bush-impeachment-poll-2

[Poiuyt]

36. That's an old poll

From July 5, 2007

45% of all adults favor impeaching Bush, and 54% favor impeaching Cheney

http://www.americanresearchgroup.com/

[John Q. Citizen]

242. Overwhelming support among Dems, Clear majority among independants,

but I guess some people won't be satisfied until bush and chaney jump on board and come out in favor of impeaching themselves:rofl:

[Geek_Girl]

307. LOL

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

[sandnsea]

39. consider...if

No, that does not say 52% of Americans favor impeachment. Considering something is a looooong ways from favoring it.

"to consider impeaching President Bush if he wiretapped American citizens"

Today's Rasmussen has 39%, 46% is the highest I've seen, with 45% against.

[GOTV]

101. That's a very old poll and far outside the average of most polls.

Why do so many people cling to the one or two polls that say what we want them to say? We wouldn't buy that from a conservative.

[sandnsea]

150. It also says CONSIDER impeachment, not FOR impeachment

I can't figure out why people can't read.

[GOTV]

156. It's so hard to make progress when people willingly disregard the evidence n/t

[Zodiak]

37. It's 49% now

There was a poll this weekend. The MOE might even put it in the majority.

You need to bring your number up-to-date, and yes, it is a strongly-positive trend.

For the rcord, Bush's supporters are now the 26%ers, formally known as the 30%ers and the 28%ers.

[sandnsea]

42. That's today's Rasmussen n/t

[KAT119]

Contact N. Pelosi at:http://speaker.gov/contact and tell her

that we (THE PEOPLE) who pay her office salary/taxes to run the country etc. WANT IMPEACHMENT OF BUSH/CHENEY NOW!!! Before these nuke happy monsters nuke Iran or USA!!

[sandnsea]

148. Hey, YOU get her the votes

And I'm sure she'd be thrilled to impeach. Why is the concept of VOTES so fucking difficult for the left to get through their heads?

[jgraz]

217. The problem is it doesn't look like Pelosi is capable of getting the votes

or that she's even trying. As long as she keeps impeachment off the table, putting the votes together will be an uphill battle.

Hell, if she doesn't want to do the heavy lifting herself, the least she could do is get the fuck out of the way.

[tblue37]

290. She may well be trying--we don't know what goes on outside the glare of

publicity.

[PassingFair]

312. She has "cleared the table".

Doesn't SOUND like she's "trying" ....

[John Q. Citizen]

251. You want a done deal, the left wants accountability. Independants

want accountability. Why is a done deal important? Why am I even discussing this with you?

No sense in having an election, unless you got a black box machine and you KNOW you have the votes?

No sense in bringing OJ to trial. What if you don't have the votes?

Why bother with anything unless it's a sure thing?

I think you are setting the bar a bit high here. Why?

Meanwhile The Dems are sinking in the polls. Congressional aproval is at it's lowest ever, and lower than before the Dems took back control of Congress. It's lowest among independants. You know, the people who voted for the Dems last election?

Is it because they moved on Impeachment? No. It's not. It's because they took impeachment off the table and because they gave bush his supplemental. The voters don't buy funding an illegal occupation and they don't buy waiting for the votes.

But that's a little too advanced for you.

When the polls for the Dems go up, let me know. But they won't, until they defund the war, and put impeachment on the table. Don't believe me? Just watch. Just watch what happens to our slim majority. It's going to evaporate because people don't want crooks getting away without at least attempting to kick out the bums!

The left has been in favor of impeachment for years now. All the movement in the polls is from independants. Take the Repos out of the polls and you have overwhelming support for impeachment. Do you think if the Dems don't impeach, the Repos are gonna vote for 'em?

Note- I'm not saying removal, I'm specifically saying impeachment. Removal is a crap shoot. Might never happen. So what? If you want to lose congress, don't impeach. It's pretty clear.

[cui bono]

277. Re: going to trial

It's my understanding DA's won't try a case if they don't think they have the evidence to convict.

[John Q. Citizen]

282. We have the Downing Street Memo, and the State of the Union address, both

prima facia evidence of lying to congress to go to war.

We have the evidence already. Lots of evidence.

And impeachment isn't a trial, it's an indictment .When you hold impeachment hearing into crimes, there is no executive privledge , because you are investigating a crime. So you can compel witnesses as well as compel the release of documents.

If the house finds grounds for impeachment, then the trial takes place in the Senate.
Take it step by step. Will the House find the evidence for an indictment? We will never know unless they start impeachment. If they do indict, will the Senate convict? We will never know, unless they start impeachment.

Lots of defendents are found not guilty every year in the US. So the DA may think they have enough for a conviction, but that's up to the jury. In otherwords, if you don't investigate for a crime, how would you know if you have the evidence or not. The impeachment process is invetigative, and then, assuming there is enough evidence, it's sent to trial.

If DAs never opened a grand jury invesigation there would be no indictments and no trials, and no convictions or aquittals.Impeachment in the house is simular to a grand jury investigation.

[cui bono]

284. I agree, I was just taking issue with that point in the post to which I responded

I thought you were saying that regardless of whether or not there is a known result one should plow forward. Still leaves the issue of having the votes for impeachment though. I'm for it. He won't get indicted anyway and the only reason I wouldn't want to impeach is that I don't want one of the R candidates getting in there and running as an incumbent. Especially because I think they would turn around on the war and be hailed as the person who got us out of Iraq and steal the Dem's "thunder" (I know, I know... what thunder...).

I might be the only person who has backed off of strong impeachment feelings. :wtf:

The only reason being what could happen if both are actually removed from office. But then I'm terrified of what will happen if they're not!

[John Q. Citizen]

285. Chaney first. If Chaney is removed, the Senate must confirm whoever bush

Nominates. But I have my doubts as to whether the Repos in the Senate would vote to remove Chaney. We'd need at least 16 or 17 Senate Repos. If they don't though it will only leave them weaker and open to attack in 08.

Then bush. And the same as above.

[Hippo_Tron]

115. Ras consistantly has Bush's approval 10 points higher than it actually is

So I'm inclined to say that it's higher than what Rasmussen says it is. Probably in the mid 40's.

[sandnsea]

149. Mid 40's isn't a majority

Change minds, change votes. That needs to be the focus, not some self-indulgent bashing campaign.

[conscious evolution]

162. Pointing out the obvious is not bashing.

[orleans]

210. don't forget: 54% favor impeaching cheney.

and the numbers for bush? 46 PERCENT:

http://www.americanresearchgroup.com/

"Poll: 54 percent favor Cheney impeachment.According to a recent poll taken by the American Research Group, “54% of American adults want the US House of Representatives to begin impeachment proceedings against Vice President Dick Cheney, including 76% of Democrats, 17% of Republicans, and 51% of Independents. The same poll found 46% of voters in favor of the same thing for President George W. Bush, including 69% of Democrats, 13% of Republicans, and 50% of independents.”

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/07/06/poll-54-percent-favor-cheney-impeachment/

[Swamp Rat]

212. ... and the numbers are rising by the nanosecond.

:)

[ProudDad]

260. Where did you get that bogus number?

"January 16, 2006 New Zogby Poll Shows Majority of Americans Support Impeaching Bush for Wiretapping

By a margin of 52% to 43%, Americans want Congress to consider impeaching President Bush if he wiretapped American citizens without a judge's approval"


This was more than a year ago!!!!


It's much higher now...


Now it IS true that back in mid '05, only 36% of voters IN THE RED STATES IN THE SOUTH favored impeaching bush...


But it's not '05 and even the South aren't that ignorant any more...


As of July 6:

"Nearly half of the US public wants President George W. Bush to face impeachment, and even more favor that fate for Vice President Dick Cheney, according to a poll out Friday.

"The survey by the American Research Group found that 45 percent support the US House of Representatives beginning impeachment proceedings against Bush, with 46 percent opposed, and a 54-40 split in favor when it comes to Cheney."

[conscious evolution]

306. Don't expect an answer.

ss avoids questions like yours like the plague.
Asking for links to back upfacts or giving indisputable facts to ss is a sure way to see nothing but asshole and elbows.

[City of Mills]

4. I agree

I wanted to post something snarky to 'that' thread, but thought better of it. Why encourage people who post that type of flamebait??? We're all in this together...

[Swamp Rat]

7. No need to post snarky things.

That is exactly what these disruptors want. ;)

We are, indeed, in this together. :grouphug:

[Occulus]

12. I just slap 'em on Ignore

They're all Usual Suspects, anyway. No big loss.

[Moochy]

24. Anyone know the upper limit

for posters on Ignore? I may be reaching that limit. :blush:

[Binka]

185. Moochy Baby I Have 112 People On Ignore

The sky is the limit. :loveya:

[sandnsea]

50. Oh but you can

and just completely ignore the fact that you did it.

[helderheid]

5. K&R

:yourock: :hug:

[libnnc]

6. K&R

The Cindy bashing pisses me off to no end. I had to stay out of those threads. I've got a short fuse anyway...as some here can attest. LOL

[conscious evolution]

163. No shit

Someone lit my fuse this morning and sent my snark level through the roof.Needless to say my posy has since been deleted.

[Moochy]

10. Activate Mole #2938u2e codename "LibrulsRoolRepukesDrool"

<Insert random sexist rant calling Cindy an "Attention Whore" who should sit down and shut up./>

:kick:

[OzarkDem]

11. I noticed

thank you for pointing it out, Mr. Rat. :*

[IChing]

14. How dare you

post something that makes sense.:) :toast: :thumbsup: :hi:

[Moochy]

18. The New Swamp Rat??

I for one welcome the new text-based Swamp Rat! :D

[Swamp Rat]

54. If only you saw all the text books I have all around me.

At least 500+ in my bedroom alone! ... not counting the thousands and thousands of sheet music. :D

[LoZoccolo]

15. Lame.

Troll paranoia is a cowardly tactic. Here's a message I received, which I submit as an example of such cowardice:

I Just finished reading the flame fest that you started on a thread posted by REDACTED. I have to say, your comments in that thread were some of the most ridiculous and uncalled for that I have ever read here.

I sure as hell wish the mods had exercised better judgment and tombstoned your sorry ass. Folks like you contribute little and your fucking pointless flaming just gets worthwhile threads locked and taken out of circulation. But, having read your posts I now fully assume you are a worthless little freeper troll in the category of folks like Cuban-Liberal. That leads me to assume that getting threads locked IS YOUR AGENDA.

Just be aware, I know who the hell you are now. The site rules are quite sclear on disruptors. I will be watching you like a freaking hawk. I will be alerting on any post that sounds remotely snarky. Keep this type of crap up and we'll see how long it is until you get the big fat banning you deserve.

I have a short list of likely disruptors. You just got added. I'll see you around you little troll bastard.

I am still here. He is not. Who is the disruptor now?

[EFerrari]

57. How is trying to maintain civil discourse in GD lame?

And why on earth are you posting this garbage in this thread? Hijack, anyone?

[LoZoccolo]

59. Who's trying to maintain civil discourse?

All I see is a witch hunt over something that Cindy Sheehan, not anyone on DU, started.

[EFerrari]

61. Okay.

[Name removed]

158. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TheBaldyMan]

196. he's not the meanest but he is the most adherent to the party line.

I think LZ is really a robot programmed to toe the party line on everything. I would advise the ignore button rather than reporting him to mods, it works for me.

[Danger Mouse]

255. what a stalker-tard.

we're better off to be shut of him.

[Forkboy]

287. Troll paranoia is sad,I agree.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=3362469

[LoZoccolo]

303. That is not the same as troll paranoia.

I do not argue that the people do not belong on YouTube, only that they are after me in an organized fashion. I did not even delete any comments from the video page.

[Mz Pip]

16. Gratuitous Cindy bashing

is no more offensive than the endless Nancy bashing. After 6 months in office she has not been able to end the war, never mind that there weren't the votes; Impeach the President, nevermind that there aren't the votes, so she somehow deserves all this scorn. Geez.

Like all of this will suddenly change if Cindy is a freshman congresscritter.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[Mythsaje]

28. I don't think anyone actually expected her to succeed

instantly. But they DID expect her to take a stand against it rather than instantly taking impeachment "off the table" and publicly kissing Bush's ass. That's not going to make her any friends among the anti-war crowd. It's one thing not to be able to affect a desired change. It's quite another to be unwilling to take any of the steps necessary.

Whether Cindy's right or not isn't the issue. The issue is whether Nancy Pelosi is doing what she can to oppose the Bushco agenda. And it doesn't look as though she is.

[truedelphi]

76. I know I expected a stand or two

And if they won't take a stand, and they won't put impeachment on the table, they
should consider their place at that table precarious

[creeksneakers2]

188. They put contempt on the table today

I'd call that a stand. I wish all the effort directed against Nancy Pelosi would go to trying to convince members of Congress to vote for contempt.

[creeksneakers2]

186. The news says the Bush White House is panicking

GOP support for the war is collapsing. I'd say Nancy has been playing this very well and great progress is being made. Did Nancy, or any other Democrats ever promise that a Democratic majority would bring an instant end to the war?

[Geek_Girl]

308. Congress' Poll numbers are down as well

http://www.pollingreport.com/CongJob.htm

I don't think she's playing this well at all. By not taking a harder stand against the administration she is basically sinking the party.

[WindRavenX]

17. It's predictable and beyond lame.

And honestly, can people do a little more thinking than "X isn't a D but Y is, so I'm supporting Y!" ? Is that a little too much to ask?

[Freddie Stubbs]

20. Or perhaps Sheehan is running as an independent to cause strife in the Democratic Party

[LoZoccolo]

Exactly.

[Virginia Dare]

72. Perhaps, it certainly looks that way...n/t

[EFerrari]

159. There's nothing in Sheehan's background that supports

such a silly notion.

[creeksneakers2]

190. She's attacked Hillary Clinton and Dianne Feinstein too

Cindy's been against the Democrats as long as I've seen her.

[frylock]

208. two of the largest corporocrats in congress..

they should be attacked, or are you party before principle?

[creeksneakers2]

211. They are great friends of the left

They aren't corporocrats.

Do you think I don't have principles?

I think throwing away positive outcomes to make meaningless gestures is unprincipled. I think helping the enemy while disposing of allies is unprincipled. I think expecting the impossible is unprincipled.

[EFerrari]

226. Feinstein is a war profiteer and Clinton's funding doesn't bear

inspection. Please.

[creeksneakers2]

243. If you send Hillary a few bucks and she takes it

will that make her one of whatever you call yourself? Why do donations from wealthy people mean she's in their pocket?

[EFerrari]

245. That's an excellent question. n/t

[cui bono]

278. You don't really think large donations from corporations aren't

made to ensure that they are taken car of at voting time do you?

Why do you think people like Murdoch and major corporations contribute to both parties? They're covering all the bases.

[creeksneakers2]

296. Donations buy access and probably influence

That's not all bad. There are times we can find common ground with corporations.

I don't believe Hillary insured anybody at voting time.

[cui bono]

300. So you're for buying off politicians. Good to know.

:eyes:

[frylock]

244. they are also great friends of the status quo..

pay-to-play.

[ProudDad]

261. I'm on the "looney left"

and I used to live in DiFi country...

And she AIN'T my fucking friend...


As for Hillary as soon as she says something substantive or posts something substantive on her website, I'll make up my mind about her but so far -- zilch, nada, zippo. All sound bites and no substance.

[proud2BlibKansan]

280. Which left?

Cause the left I belong to certainly doesn't see either one of them as "great friends"!!

[creeksneakers2]

297. The left the great majority on the left belong to

that elected a majority of Democrats to Congress. Can you name one friend your left has who is in office and getting any results?

Most of the time, Hillary is on our side. If you expect perfection from your friends, you'll have no friends.

[Freddie Stubbs]

223. Voted for Bush in 2000? Repudiated the Democratic a few weeks ago?

:shrug:

[EFerrari]

227. I just don't see that she has a history of party politics.

:shrug:

[mzteris]

189. I thought Cindy hated Democrats now

well - today anyway. This week? - uh - I lose track.

Didn't she just call us all slave holders and war mongers responsible for starting every single war in the 20th Century?

Didn't she recently "retire"?

Didn't she recently say she hated DU'ers?

Didn't she threaten to run against Feinstein, too?

Didn't - oh never mind.

What she says will change tomorrow. Or today. whatever. :shrug:

[ProudDad]

262. Well

"slave holders" - Democrats in the South -- Ding, true...

"war mongers responsible for starting every single war"
WW one -- Wilson (D)
WW Two -- FDR (D)
Korea -- Truman (D)
Vietnam -- Truman (D)
Gulf I -- bush I <--- Ok, you GOT HER!!! Only 4 out of five "major" wars...

'Didn't she recently "retire"' <-- from the "organized" (circular firing squad) anti-war movement

"Didn't she recently say she hated DU'ers?" <-- Some DU'ers, the Haters -- and you know who you are..

"Didn't she threaten to run against Feinstein, too?" <-- As an ex-Californian I sure wish the FUCK SOMEONE WOULD get rid of that egregious DINO....that damn Ultra-rich-fuck lover of corporations and the military-industrial complex.

Everyone is entitled to change their mind.

Still in her grief, she wants to end the war that took her son...

[mzteris]

294. wow every single war....

not just the major ones, note.

And while there probably was some contributing factors on the part of Wilson, FDR, & Truman in the aforementioned "major" ones - they didn't START them. Does Hitler ring any bells for ya?

The Democrats of today are not the Democrats of slavery. Just like the Republicans of Abraham Lincoln are most definitely NOT the Republicans of today.

You can try and parse and spin it all you want. Her words make her sound a wee bit out of touch and completely un/mis-informed. Who would want THAT for a "Senator"? It's a joke. A bad one. She would never in a million years get elected for anything behaving the way she has been.

If you want to be taken seriously, you need to behave seriously. Not like a flake without a clue.

Look - lots of people lost sons and other loved ones. She doesn't get a pass from irrational behaviour because of it.

I know lots of fundies from living in the deep south. Some of them have lost kids. Are you going to champion their right to claim Bush is the messiah on DU because they're a "grieving mother?" eh? I didn't think so.

I want the damn war to end. Most people do.

She doesn't speak for me, nor indeed, most Democrats, DLCRS, Dinos, Moderates, Lefties, Righties - what have you. There are some - SOME- who cling to her - a small minority.

But understand she isn't doing herself or OUR party any favors by her recent behaviour. Whether she's "crazy" as some have claimed - is really immaterial - she's PERCEIVED as "crazy" by the majority of Americans. Left, Right, Middle, and in-between.

And if OUR party - isn't YOUR party anymore, then I ask you, wtf are you doing here?

[Bolo Boffin]

21. There shouldn't be any Cindy bashing.

I agree with you there. It should be a simple statement. If she's running as an independent, her supporters in that endeavor should do it elsewhere. If she's challenging Pelosi in the Democratic primary, then let the debate (not the bashing) continue.

[Swamp Rat]

35. Exactly!

;)

A lot of good DUers have been roped into this, but I hope they will cool off and realize what has just happened.

[malaise]

22. Good post Swamp Rat n/t

[PVnRT]

25. There you go

Heap the blame on those not on Cindy's side. Way to build bridges, fella.

[stillcool]

26. There are times...

when the negative aspects of this joint far outweigh the positives. At that point I need to remove myself from the carnival-like atmosphere. I come here to find information and reasoning, not to engage in name-calling, self-aggrandizing, and various other adversarial child-like game playing...got way better things to do.

[EFerrari]

27. Good call, Swampy. Let's not take the bait.

:applause:

[WindRavenX]

29. here's the other thought I just had

When are the crimes of this administration going to be held accountable? Even if the votes aren't there for a straight-up impeachment, why not proceed with it anyway? What does Pelosi have to lose? She hasn't done anything worthy of being outvoted, but for goodness sake, can't we all agree that this administration has never had or will have any respect for the constitution and the law?

When is the Democratic party going to do the right fucking thing--polls/politics be damned? This is reaching a level of CRISIS.

[creeksneakers2]

191. Losing isn't the right thing

Look what would happen if the GOP wins an all powerful executive branch in 2008.

If an impeachment attempt fails the GOP will conclude that the executive branch is unstoppable. I'd rather wait and build toward a successful effort.

[Truth2Tell]

279. Impeachment is not a political loser.

The first of the top tier candidates to support Impeachment wins the nomination.

And the General.

Hands down.

[creeksneakers2]

299. Its not a ripe issue. That's why

nobody is jumping on what you say is a great opportunity.

[Truth2Tell]

302. Not ripe?

It's been ripe so long it's starting to rot.

[hiphopnation]

30. K&R

thanks swamprat

some needed lucidity this a.m.

regarding those egging it on, you (and we) know who you are

please find something better to do with your time...i hear starbucks is hiring.

[Marrah_G]

31. In turn I would say the "Cindy is our savior" meme is here to cause a rift in DU

If you want to support a third party candidate running against a Democrat them by all means create your own forums.

[WindRavenX]

38. Can we do a *little* more critical thinking than this?

Honestly, if a liberal independent, who was more in line with democratic ideals than the other canidate, ran again Miller or Lieberman, would you still be insisting this?

This type of thinking is just lazy-- the "D" next to one's name doesn't automatically a good democrat make.

[Marrah_G]

43. If I wanted to support an independant over a Democrat I would do it on another site

[WindRavenX]

45. So, you'd support Miller and Lieberman.

Nice. :eyes:

[Marrah_G]

You might want to re-read my post

If I wanted to support and campaign for a third party against the Democratic challenger I would not do so on this website. Skinner owns this site. He makes the rules for his site. I respect those rules.

[creeksneakers2]

194. We supported a Democrat against Lieberman n/t

[Virginia Dare]

65. I'm thinking critically here..

and Nancy Pelosi does not compare to Zell Miller or Joe Lieberman by any stretch of the imagination.

[hiphopnation]

what's more

is it possible that this is a tactic being used by sheehan, considering her far reach in the MSM, to keep the "I" word in the mouths, eyes, and ears of the general public?

talk about the lack of critical thinking skills, yeesh.

:eyes:

[hiphopnation]

71. what's more

is it possible that this is a tactic being used by sheehan, considering her far reach in the MSM, to keep the "I" word in the mouths, eyes, and ears of the general public?

talk about the lack of critical thinking skills, yeesh.

:eyes:

[rosesaylavee]

192. I think you got something there...

That was my take on it when I heard the news. Whether it will have the desired effect of moving Pelosi off the fence remains to be seen.

[Hippo_Tron]

118. Miller and Lieberman aren't Democrats

Lieberman is now an independent. Miller while still technically having a D after his name severed all ties to the national party and started sitting in on the GOP caucus meetings while he was still in the Senate. DU rules forbid supporting an independent candidate if there is a Democrat in the race. Zell Miller and Joe Lieberman have no loayalty to the Democratic Party and therefore Skinner would probably allow support for a third party candidate (unless a real Democrat was running against them simultaneously).

But if you're talking about Ben Nelson, Mark Pryor, or Mary Landrieu, it's a totally different story. They may be conservative on many issues but they are loyal Democrats and therefore advocacy for a third party candidate would not be allowed.

[Swamp Rat]

145. THEY aren't even human!

:D





:D

[ellisonz]

168. But it's not Miller or Lieberman...

It's the liberal, first woman ever, Democratic Speaker of the House...who for all her "political posturing" has done, and continue's to do an excellent job of both conveying the Democratic message and managing the United States House of Representatives.

[karlrschneider]

47. Yep.

Exactly.

[LoZoccolo]

70. It was Cindy who picked the fight; no one here was being divisive. n/t

[EFerrari]

140. Since when do progressives stifle dissent?

That's just wacky.

[LoZoccolo]

144. Who here even has the power to stifle it? n/t

[EFerrari]

146. You're right. It doesn't work. n/t

[Forkboy]

178. Says the flame bait master!

[LoZoccolo]

184. Ralph Nader's entire campaigns are flame bait.

I am only responding to his tactics by meting out equal and/or greater force. It is he who is the master baiter, not me.

[EFerrari]

113. I haven't seen the "savior" posts. Is there a link?

[ProudDad]

264. Do you have a link to that post ?

the one where someone says "Cindy is our savior" by running against Pelosi?

[babylonsister]

32. Swampie, don't let anyone deter you

(I know you won't)-those of us that support Cindy need to keep lending our voices. She's doing a helluva lot more than most, and I for one will never trash her for that, or anything!

[Swamp Rat]

44. Thanks babylonsister

:hug:

A lot of good DUers have been roped into this 'bash Cindy' meme. I hope they step back and see what has transpired, and realize they are being manipulated by a few.

1. There is no need to repeat the rules over and over to long-time DUers, yet I see this happening.

2. If Cindy runs as an Indy, then her campaign will be supported elsewhere. Period.

3. This is can only become more and more polarising if it continues.

[rodeodance]

313. she put the face on the antiwar movement. I read her letter posted on Randi

Rhodes website. Weird to say the least but I am not about to trash her.

[BuyingThyme]

33. You're wrong.

I started attacking my long-time DU colleagues long before this.

Go Cindy!

:hi:

[EFerrari]

40. Take it to GD!

Oops! :blush:

[Swamp Rat]

49. LOL!

I am so vewy vewy wrong!! :D :hi:



:grouphug:

[Robbien]

34. This thread needs to be pinned at the top of GD and GDP

In garish colors and bright flashing lights.

[tritsofme]

41. I don't see why someone who seeks to unseat the first Democratic Speaker of the House

in 12 years, should get any more respect than if her opponent was a Republican.

The challenge has no merit or credibility with me.

[karlrschneider]

51. Some DUers are guilty of the same thing they deprecate in others:

The desire for instant gratification.

[ProudDad]

265. What part of

get Pelosi's attention don't you understand?

Cindy Sheehan would be the first to admit that her chances of beating Pelosi are slim to none but, unfortunately for some, the laws of the nation and the state of California allow her to try...

Politicians (allegedly) bow to the wishes of their constituents, and try to help them. The better question is "does Pelosi owe allegiance to the 90%+ of San Franciscans who voted her into office to END THAT FUCKING WAR or does she owe allegiance to the military-industrial-bush complex that seems to have defeated her so far?"

If Sheehan can get Pelosi to respond to her constituents, the people who voted for her to end the war (and remove corporate control from our lives, etc.), it's a good thing. If not, it's still worth trying...

[tritsofme]

317. So the whole thing is just a publicity stunt?

nt

[Madspirit]

52. You Know I love you Swampy

I wish someone would tell me how we are actually supposed to do this since it is EXPLICITLY against Skinner's rules for the board...to support ANY candidate running against a Democrat.

Maybe we should ask Skinner to change that? I would be OK with changing that rule.

Lee

[Swamp Rat]

75. Way'at Madspirit!

:hi:

Cindy is not yet running for anything.

My point is that DUers have been distracted and divided... and it continues.

Btw, did you notice a tinge of misogynism in a few of the anti-Cindy posts? :shrug:

[Madspirit]

79. Oh Yeah

I notice misogyny all over this place. Cindy is just an "attention getting whore, grieving, divisive, hysterical" etc. Most of these terms would NEVER be used against a male.

Personally, I wish they would tweak that rule to "support Democratic candidates WHEN they are actually the most progressive candidate". I would be all for a rule change like that.
Lee

[EFerrari]

112. Isn't that the truth. n/t

[devilgrrl]

53. It is silly isn't it?

Then again, I went off on Nader this morning.... but he's a dick!

[Cleita]

55. I agree Swamp Rat.

Cindy is a very brave woman and we should all be as brave and as effective as she has been. I hope she ignores the trolls and continues with her quest. If she decides not to run against Nancy Pelosi, she can run as an independent in my district against the Republican corporate asslicker I have. I believe an independent would win in my district where a Democrat can't because of the stubborn Republican rancher's vote. It would give Congress one more progressive seat in their caucus. (Think Bernie Saunders.)

[Swamp Rat]

78. Obrigado

Gracias Cleita. :hi: :hug:

Estoy un poco triste que muchos amigos aquí estan peleando sobre nada. Lo que acaba de passar es algunos aquí estan tratando dividirnos, y los otros estan engañado por la táctica. :(

edit: :D

[acmavm]

56. Out of curiousity, what makes her so special that no criticism is

allowed? Also, if she's making noises about running against Pelosi, how's she gonna do it? As a dem (which party she publically said she was through with) or as an Indie in which case what happens to the "this is a democratic site so get off here you rat bastards if you can't support the democratic party" line of thought?

Has this woman become the 'face' of the entire party? Is it mandatory to worship at her feet? Would there be no party or anti-war movement without her?

Don't mind me, I'm just pissed because I missed the coronation.

[EFerrari]

58. It's not that. It's just that, this is exactly the kind of situation

that some parties exploit to cause havoc in GD. I don't think Cindy is the Queen of anything AND I appreciate bouncing ideas around here. Let's get back to that part. :)

[Swamp Rat]

66. Thank you sfexpat2000.

Many have fallen for this divisive tactic today, but we shall survive it. ;)

:grouphug:

[EFerrari]

69. I love DU. Let's stay mindful. Thanks for this thread, Swampy.

:grouphug:

[Swamp Rat]

81. Gracias!

:D Solamente estoy tratando ayudarnos. :grouphug:

[EFerrari]

96. And you are doing a great job.

'Way to go, Swamp Rat!

[Swamp Rat]

60. Nothing. I don't know. No. No. No. No. Ok.

I answered all your questions. :)

[PVnRT]

64. Exactly

You've echoed my concerns in a far more tactful way than I can muster anymore.

[Zodiak]

62. I support you Swampy

and I support Cindy. I don't give a rat's patoot which DUers disagree with me or want me run off because I am not afraid to say so. I didn't come here from lock-step thinking, and I'll be damned if I start with it now.

[Swamp Rat]

68. Thanks!! And I support you.

:hug:

Too bad we have been diverted by this divisive tactic, but we'll get past it. :grouphug:

[Zodiak]

80. Ah don't sweat it Swampy

We have seen rhetorical campaigns by these usual suspects before. We have destroyed their recent memes so completly that they are left with the 2000 talking points....and so they are running with it. Heaven forbid a little bit of self-reflection and course-correction are in order....that would take actual work and soul-searching.

Long-time DUers know this is just a typical campaign by the 20% of DU crowd and no more. Probably the 30th one this year.

When Skinner gives the word, I will act accordingly (but think on my own). Until then, I am not going to pay heed to authoritarian entreaties to follow "just because".

[donkeyotay]

92. Any one notice how Bush has not been held accountable?

Any one notice how Bush has not been held accountable for starting this war? Pelosi is to blame for not ending it. Sheehan is to blame. The Democrats are to blame. The Iranians are to blame. The Iraqis are to blame. Just don't hold W, the Popular Wartime President and his Mighty Wurlizer, the people who voted for him, and the Republican Rubberstamp Congress accountable.

[Zodiak]

252. They are the most accountable

But at the same time they are the most incorrigable. Many are through talking about that issue because these knuckle-draggers cannot be swayed.

But our representatives can be swayed, and they are not doing their jobs.

Don't think for one second that for every ounce of criticism of Democrats expended on this site, the critic doesn't feel bucketloads of raw, blood-red rage for the WH and their right-wing supporters.

There is plenty of anger, hurt, and betrayal to go around.

[Bentcorner]

63. I thought this was Demicratic Underground, not Independent Underground?

Cindy wants to run as an Independent, not as a Democrat.

[EFerrari]

Right. But we don't need to turn into pretzels over that or lose

longtime DUers over it, do we? And maybe Cindy can be persuaded to run as a Dem.

[Swamp Rat]

86. "maybe Cindy can be persuaded to run as a Dem" - Brilliant sfexpat2000!!

So simple and not at all divisive. :applause:

Wouldn't that be a better use of our energy? :grouphug:

[EFerrari]

91. I sincerely think that would be a better strategy for her. n/t

[Marrah_G]

95. I think that would definitely be the better idea

[EFerrari]

105. I think I'm going to try to write to her on this point. n/t

[Swamp Rat]

116. There's another GREAT IDEA!!!

See, instead of in-fighting, we could support Cindy's efforts to keep impeachment on the table while at the same time calling her back in to the Democratic fold. Calling her names and attacking won't keep her in the Democratic Party.

You know, if I had lost my son to the war, and had endured what Cindy has dealt with over the last few years, I would be getting a little impatient with my own reps too.

Hell, I am still VERY PISSED how we were and are still treated in New Orleans! ... and I am yet a Democrat, which is an amazing thing, considering I still have to living in a damaged home, have no job, no health insurance (I have untreated, painful injuries), have to endure an out of control crime wave, and corrupt politicians (Jefferson, Nagin, et al)....

[rodeodance]

315. I do think she is in need of some good advisors-------Go for it.

[Bentcorner]

114. The last I heard, she left the Democratic party and became an Independent

Until she comes out and says that she has rejoined the Democratic party and will try to win the Democratic nomination, we shouldn't be voicing support for her here on DU.

[EFerrari]

119. I leave it to the mods and the admins to make those decisions

and will take my lead from them.

I am fully behind Cindy's activism to end this "war". Desperate time, desperate measures.

She hasn't filed yet. Nothing is set in cement. Do we really need to attack each other over something that hasn't happened? It's complicated but I trust DUers to sort it out. :)

[Hippo_Tron]

120. One way of looking at it is if your goal is to get Democrats elected...

It doesn't matter what her issue positions are, she is no better than a Republican because she is hindering getting Democrats elected. I don't take that view entirely, but many people do.

[EFerrari]

126. I agree with Skinner that there are significant differences

between Democrats and the Thuggery. First off.

And/but, challenging our Democratic reps doesn't seem to me to be a bad thing. It's hard enough to get them to attend to us because of the way campaigns are funded.

And, she hasn't filed yet. Maybe she can be persuaded to run as a Democrat? I don't know.

But can we please not bloody each other over this? :)

[Madspirit]

131. "And maybe Cindy can be persuaded to run as a Dem."

Sfexpat is so brilliant! :woohoo: Now that's an idea I can embrace! I love it.

Lee

[EFerrari]

133. Seriously, let's court her!

:hi:

[Madspirit]

139. I will absolutely write to her and show support and make the suggestion...n/t

[Swamp Rat]

187. oi

Please let us know what she says if she is able to respond.

:kick:

[datasuspect]

67. it's like how cockroaches exploit little holes, kinks, and grooves

to find what they want. so they can eat and survive.

plus they thrive in the darkness.

[rinsd]

74. So you will calm the strife by calling people who disagree with Cindy trolls and sychophants?

[EFerrari]

77. Is that what you get from the OP? I get, let's slow down

and remember the rules and not allow ourselves to be manipulated. :shrug:

[Robbien]

82. Yup. The best thing to do right now is to click hide thread

on each and every one which is provoking dissension on the issue.

[EFerrari]

83. Agree. Let's freak out the mods and show some restraint!

:rofl:

[rinsd]

84. I don;t see how this thread will do anything about the strife when it insults one side

Here's the subject header

"The 'take the Cindy campaign elsewhere' meme was manufactured to cause strife here"

It is my understanding that Cindy plans to run as an independent against Pelosi, not in the primaries. The rules here are fairly explicit abotu advocating 3rd party runs against Democrats in general elections.

My problem with those threads is

a) She has yet to declare.

b) there is already considerable strife here about Sheehan.

All those threads and this one here do is flame that shit up again.

[EFerrari]

87. Really? I think Swampy is just trying to calm things down

and retain people who might be a little too passionate about this issue. I support that.

We can manage that, can't we?

[Swamp Rat]

90. Right. I am not 'one a side'. I am for ALL DUers.

Well, not the disruptors and dividers.

:grouphug:

[Marrah_G]

94. But calling a large portion of posters either trolls or easily manipulated doesnt calm things down

If they did mean what you interpreted then perhaps they could clarify, because frankly it just came across as another flame-bait title.

[EFerrari]

100. I don't believe that was the intention. Damn English!

:)

[Swamp Rat]

102. "calling a large portion of posters" - I did no such thing. n/t

[Marrah_G]

106. You post seemed to insinuate the following (at least to me)

Anyone not on Cindy's side was either:

A) a DCL troll trying to cause strife

or

B) an easily manipulated person incapable of independent thought.

As I said to another poster, if you were just trying to say 'calm down, slow down, let's not let this tear DU apart" then I am completely with you. However I did not get just that from your post.

Perhaps it is simply how each person interprets a post, since we do so without audio tone or facial expression.

[EFerrari]

109. The OP's aim seems to be to remind us why we're here, together.

Whether we agree with the premise or not, we can probably agree that we needn't slash and burn GD over this. That's the bigger frame, imho.

[Swamp Rat]

110. But it did not.

"Already many good DUers have been roped into it and have begun attacking their long-time DU colleagues." - I am concerned about my friends and colleagues here. That is all.

"Also, please notice that there are a few well-known trolls and DLC sycophants egging it on." - This is a fact and I stand by it. Some of the comments about her border on misogynistic and it disturbs and embarrasses me.

I hope this clears things up for you... us. ;) :hi:

:grouphug:

[rinsd]

97. I hope cooler heads prevail if that is what you are asking.

I think the OP could have used a little more tact in their wording but all in all I agree with the OP in hoping that. people will just calm down.

[EFerrari]

103. It's hard to be tactful in a room full of screaming people, lol!

Let's slow it down. :)

[Swamp Rat]

108. OK.

I believe I was sufficiently tactful in addressing this hotly 'debated' topic, but you are free to disagree. :hi:

:grouphug:

[Marrah_G]

85. I didn't get that at all

I got "Cindy is right and anyone not with her is a DLC troll just causing dissension or just naive enough to be manipulated." Either choice is insulting.

But then again, I guess it's all in how your own views cause you to interpret a post.

I agree with YOUR statement of "let's slow down and remember the rules and not let ourselves be manipulated" That statement is one that does not infer one side is is "good" and the other "bad"

[EFerrari]

89. Exactly. Let's look at the long term, Marrah. n/t

[Madspirit]

93. It Would Be Nice

It would be nice if the people who do not like Cindy actually...oh sometimes maybe...on rare occasions, perhaps, disagreed with her policies, her tactics maybe...INSTEAD OF ALWAYS ATTACKING THE WOMAN IN WAYS NO ONE WOULD ATTACK A MAN. People here who disagree with Cindy, make horrible statements about her rather than just disagreeing with her.

Personally, I think she is Right On. I think it's time to stop being the lapdogs and the butt monkeys of the Right Wing of the Democratic Party.

However, as someone who also runs my own groups, I know that Groups have rules and that Groups would immediately disintegrate into cacophony and trollish constant behavior if they didn't have rules. Not supporting third party candidates who are running against Democrats is one of the rules here. It no where, however, says that it's OK to make trollish, misogynist attacks on third party candidates.

Lee

[LoZoccolo]

117. This is disingenuous.

It would be nice if the people who do not like Cindy actually...oh sometimes maybe...on rare occasions, perhaps, disagreed with her policies, her tactics maybe...INSTEAD OF ALWAYS ATTACKING THE WOMAN IN WAYS NO ONE WOULD ATTACK A MAN.

People attack Ralph Nader for essentially the same thing.

[EFerrari]

123. Yes, feminizing your opponent is a predictable tactic. n/t

[Madspirit]

137. Beep...wrong.

No they don't. YOU are disingenuous. Swampy was the one who actually asked about the misogyny and sfxpat and I, both agree.

I've never heard anyone say Ralph just holds his positions because he's a grieving mother, or hysterical or even use the word "whore" when speaking of his giant head and narcissism. The terms used against Cindy are usually terms reserved for women.

Plus, "disingenuous" means hypocritically insincere. I am not. I meant every word I said.
This place is OFTEN floating in misogyny, racism, homophobia and xenophobia but of course, you wouldn't notice. YOU only notice when someone complains about it. That says a lot.
Lee

[Danger Mouse]

258. I'm critical of Cindy and I've never once made such remarks about her.

Put down the broad brush. There are others like me.

[yardwork]

88. Very good points.

[KAT119]

98. Contact N. Pelosi at:http://speaker.gov/contact

and tell her we want impeachment of Bush/Cheney Now, before they destroy and kill more of everything we hold dear!!

[Swamp Rat]

111. Now there's a GREAT IDEA!!!

:applause:

[Catherine Vincent]

99. Anything to keep Impeachment in the air is alright by me. n/t

[Swamp Rat]

104. Me too!

:hi:

[Individualist]

107. Well said, Swampy

The only thing worse than a neocon is a neocon enabler.

[MagickMuffin]

121. Excellent post Swampy

I haven't responded to any of the Sheehan threads (with the exception of this one) for the very reason you posted this thread.

It is A LONG LONG way until the elections. Perhaps Cindy will run as an indy, perhaps she'll have a change of heart and run as a Democrat, or perhaps she won't run at ALL....

So, why get so damn worked up over it. There are a lot more important things we should be focused on than whether Cindy is going to run.

I try real hard to be an independent thinker and usually don't express to much of my personal feelings on forums. And as a general rule I express myself through my art, which takes up a large percentage of my time.
Hence my low thread count.

But you know me well enough to know that there are better things to do than bash each other, because what does that accomplish in the long run?!?!?!?!?!?!?

[EFerrari]

122. We contribute to Ben-Gay sales?

lol

[Swamp Rat]

124. Great pic!

:applause:

It happens every so often that we are distracted this way. When someone points it out, there are usually few knee-jerk posts, then things calm down. ;)

:grouphug:

[Jed Dilligan]

125. 25th R

and a :kick:

Because this is such a clear-eyed assessment.

[Swamp Rat]

129. Thank you Jed Dilligan.

I will not be deterred by knee-jerk responses. ;)

There are a few among us desperately trying to divide us and send others away. It will not succeed.

:grouphug:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

127. No Sympathy For Anyone That Would Actually Condone Cindy Defeating Nancy. If They Leave, Too Bad.

There is something monumentally disturbing about Cindy wanting to take on our House leader. There are so many things logically and rationally wrong with that. If some here are actually going to embrace such ridiculousness, then they absolutely are open for strong criticism; especially on a DEMOCRATIC board that is here to support DEMOCRATIC candidates.

So if some doing so get fed up and leave? Too bad, so sad, we're probably better off for it.

[Madspirit]

143. delete because it was unnecessary...n/t

[EFerrari]

160. Wow. I wonder why you are so easily disturbed?

She hasn't even filed yet. Geezus. Let's get a grip here.

[JerseygirlCT]

175. All of that, and a great big dose of naive, too

As if, should she unseat Pelosi, she could actually make anything more happen.

There is a huge, long list of people waiting to be unseated before we'd want to look at Pelosi. And if Sheehan is serious, it's my opinion she could be more effective in another way.

Her right to run, of course. But no requirement that all on DU should think she's right, or doing the right thing by doing so.

[Forkboy]

179. Now I know why lions eat their young.

[ProudDad]

267. You want the truth?

You want the truth?

YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!


Chill. Chill. :hi:

Cindy probably cannot beat Pelosi. Sheehan doubtless knows that...it takes GOBS of money to beat a corporate candidate.

But if she can force Pelosi to address the issue of impeaching the war criminals in the White House and ACTUALLY ending this war it would be a good thing.

[Mythsaje]

128. Here's my two cents, for what it's worth...

Cindy is a highly visible public figure who is not connected to the establishment. She can say and do things that others can't. Her main cause is the war--she's certainly never pretended otherwise. But this has also led her to comment on several connected issues, and she's called just about every one of them in pretty much the same way as most DUers.

I wrote a post just after the election that said that THIS Democratic congress would suffer from far closer scrutiny than ANY before it, and that they'd be very wise to pay attention to what the watchers (bloggers and those of us at DU) had to say about the issues. It says a lot that the first thing that Pelosi said was that "impeachment was off the table." A LOT of people here and elsewhere were furious about that. Still are.

It doesn't so much matter whether it can succeed as much as people think that it's past time for the Democrats to take a solid stand. Together. Half-hearted measures aren't going to impede Bushco's rush to whatever the hell they're rushing for, and it can't be done with a handful of Dems standing in the middle of the tracks about to get run over by the Krazy Klown Train because they've been left there by those who are ostensibly their allies in Congress.

Cindy's applying PUBLIC pressure, by whatever means she has at her disposal. She is, in a way, becoming OUR public voice. While it would be better for her to stay within the Democratic Party to accomplish this, we all know that people outside the established order aren't exactly welcomed by the party as a whole. If nothing else, she'll help drag Pelosi more towards our positions just to counter Cindy's accusations.

I can see the anti-Cindy position well enough here, but I'm not sure everyone's seeing the big picture. Success or failure isn't nearly as important as the DEBATE surrounding it.

[Swamp Rat]

134. Excellent post

You are a great writer Mythsaje. I look forward to reading your posts. :thumbsup:

They are trying to divide us because they are scared. ;)



:grouphug:

[EFerrari]

147. Yes! It's the airing out that really matters.

:thumbsup:

[nolabels]

130. Man, Swampy, as long your here we got all the good people we need

(snicker)

Really though, after have been a troll at DU for so long it would be hard for me to figure out who is who anymore.


Opps, did i just say troll :yoiks:

[EFerrari]

135. LOL!

Kudos to Swamp Rat for putting the good of the community far above a squabble.

:loveya: and thank you.

[Swamp Rat]

138. I am receiving a lot of help too... it's a joint effort.

:loveya: :hug: :grouphug:

[Swamp Rat]

136. LOL!

Yes you did! :D



:grouphug:

[Madspirit]

132. I Almost Forgot...k&r for Swampy!...n/t

[Swamp Rat]

141. Glad you didn't!

:D :hi:

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

142. It's surprising that so many people here at DU feel so threatened by Cindy. K&R

As if the whole Democratic Party is about to crumble because of what one woman does or says.

[EFerrari]

151. Maybe it's the moon.

:)

[MzNov]

152. Did they take stuff like Edwards' hair off DU?? Noooooooo

but someone, not a moderator, is giving orders on what and what cannot be posted here relating to Cindy?? :shrug:

:hi: :hi: :hi:


We need to focus on other important issues and events. Leave the policing to the owners and operators of the Democratic Underground.

:raspberries:

[guruoo]

153. If only people would make their criticisms more constructive.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3364888&mesg_id=3364982

[EFerrari]

155. We're a project under construction.

:)

[guruoo]

172. Received...

and understood. :hi:

[guruoo]

173. Received...

and understood. :hi:

[LWolf]

154. #31.

:hi:

:grouphug:

[me b zola]

157. k&r

:yourock:

[Usrename]

165. We have to stand together against the evil Republicans.

You know how those Republicans like to keep impeacment on the table?

Evil bastages.

[walldude]

166. But we won't...

I'm not welcome because I voted for Nader and I'm not happy with the Dems 1st 6 months in charge of congress, not to mention I support Cindy and her actions, so I'm supposed to shut up and take my little "tantrums" elsewhere. Lately I have been, I pop in here once a week or so to see what the people I respect have to say but those people have become fewer and fewer lately as well. I expect I'll be weening myself off DU entirely soon, it's become a pointless exercise of one-upmanship...

[Swamp Rat]

167. I 'd hate to see you go.

That is exactly what a few people are trying to accomplish.

Instead, invite all your progressive friends to come here. ;) :D

[walldude]

170. LOL... well, that would make 2 of you...

And this has been going on for awhile, in spite of the fact that the admin and mods want to think this is just another "phase", DU has changed much since I first started coming here. The debates are nastier, most people show little respect for others opinions and many threads seem to be started just to "call people out". People like you, Nance Greggs, sfexpat2000 and a few others are becoming the minority here. Most of my progressive friends have stopped coming here. Having a think skin is one thing, needing to wear head to toe asbestos chain-mail is another. I just get annoyed with people whose main argument is "You're a retard".

[EFerrari]

171. Don't fall for the GD drama. We'll be fine, walldude.

:hi:

[walldude]

222. Hiya kiddo, yeah I'd love to "not fall for it"

But after this post today:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1286608#1288021

I think I have had about enough. Today was the first time in awhile I came into GD and now I know why I have been avoiding it.

[EFerrari]

224. Holy cow.

:(

[Swamp Rat]

225. Nevertheless, I'm glad you are here.

:hug:

[Forkboy]

288. You definitely should NOT leave because of that poster.

That is all. :)

[Madspirit]

177. I agree with Swampy

Invite more progressives to come over here. We have way too many RWers in Democrat's cloths.
Lee

[chknltl]

180. I second Swamprats suggestion: bring your friends here walldude

The bfee is all about Divide and Conquer. They certainly did that to America, We The People lost and the bfee won. I strongly suspect the entire division(s) ongoing in Iraq are orchestrated by the bfee as well. Their goal has been the oil all along, they do not REALLY care about much else with the exception of all the $$ being made for the puppeteers.

I have NO doubts that the Democratic Underground and other similar forums are a HUGE thorn in the side of the bfee. If they could, they would shut us all down in an eye-blink! That would literally be the end to Democracy in America. Keeping us divided is likely the next best thing in their book.

I welcome ALL here to the DU, I do not care if they are Independents, Democrats, Republicans or even freepers. As long as they follow rules of civility I want them here. I STRONGLY want to be able to communicate with my fellow Americans, (and everyone else throughout the world too). Communication is key! When we are divided, when we are shouting and screaming at each other, we no longer communicate. In essence "bush wins". This may be what the freepers want and at this point what some Republicans want BUT most of America wants what is best for America. Let me repeat that: MOST OF AMERICA WANTS WHAT IS BEST FOR AMERICA. That statement does not reflect what the bfee wants. The bfee wants what is good for their puppeteers PERIOD!

Most if not all of those "shouters and screamers" here want what is best for America too. Knowing this eases my discomfort level with them if that helps. Sometimes, like Swamprat is attempting here, I try to calm them down a bit too. I do NOT want those I disagree with to go away mad or go away, I want them to stay put. I want the opportunity to say my say and bring them around OR maybe I'll be brought around to their point of view. We have the same ultimate goals.

Communication is where it is all at my fellow DUer. DEMOCRACY REQUIRES AN ENLIGHTENED ELECTORATE! Enlightenment comes through many ways but communication is likely the most essential. Please reconsider staying and please consider bringing your friends here too. Leaving, imo is tantamount to caving in to what the bfee wants: Closing down lines of communication within the Democratic Underground...in essence, your leaving is a small win for bush! Stay and fight with us, perhaps even follow Swampy's lead here and spread a little calming oils on the turbulent waters. The bottom line is we all want the same goals, we can achieve those goals far easier COLLECTIVELY than divided. This struggle is much MUCH larger than the Democratic Underground or partisanship. It is about reclaiming our country.

Let me remind all who read this: "We must all hang together or surely we will......" :patriot:
(edited for a spelling error)

[Swamp Rat]

182. Excellent post and thank you!

[chknltl]

200. You are quite welcome and thank you...

For a most EXCELLENT thread! It reflects much of what I love about DU. I was about to say as much when I came across walldude's post here and felt the need to reach out. The DU especially needs folks like him and you and hopefully me too! :grouphug:

[walldude]

253. Wow great post...

Thanks for all the support, sometimes I let people get to me, and I shouldn't. Fustration is at an all time high, thank god for this D.C. Madam scandal, that should lighten things up a bit.

[robinlynne]

174. Thanks swamprat. We're ignoring them.

[shadowknows69]

176. I haven't really said shit about this whole Cindy/Nancy thing yet but I should

SHIT!


Way'at Swampy!!!

[MrSlayer]

181. It's all rather silly isn't it?

I'm avoiding those threads because I don't see anything good that can come out of them.

[LittleClarkie]

183. Manufactured by who?

Skinner? They're his rules?

So if I disagree with you I'm only manufacturing a meme to cause strife? So much for discussion of opposing ideas.

[salib]

233. "by whom" actually

[Dinger]

193. Excellent Post My Friend. Sad Too: (

I don't know how you felt about Cynthia McKinney, but I miss her too. I hope Cindy runs, but again, maybe not, if that means pelosi will introduce articles of impeachment, among other things. Something Cindy & Cynthia do have in common, IMO, is that they both made comments that suggested 9-11 was an inside job. Rosie too, & look what happened to her. There are probably more that I have neglected to mention.:-(

[kineneb]

195. Now everyone: take a good, deep breath

then let it out.

So what? Let us all wait and see what really happens. It is not as if 'we' can actually do anything about it.

The next several months might be a wild ride.

There is so much more passing by in the undercurrents... this is a mere distraction. Yes, there is the political end of things, but I really think that "interesting" economics will determine our future. The politicians may be beat at their own game by forces larger than them.

Watch the dollar vs. Euro and other currencies.
-If the dollar tanks, all domestic political bets are off.

Watch the forclosure stats.
Watch what China does with all the dollars they hold.
Watch the prices of oil, nat. gas and gold.

In the meantime, don't forget to have canned goods and cash on hand... they might come in handy.

And don't forget to breathe. Humans don't look good when they are blue.

[rosesaylavee]

197. If I were closer SR

I'd give you a whistle to strap around your neck. Good call. :hug:

Breathe people. Breathe. Let's not be manipulated. This place will only get hotter in the next 500 days. I hate seeing good people get TSed because their anger/frustration got the better of them. Why give the trolls something to gloat over?

[opihimoimoi]

198. Its so simple: Together we win...Divided we get our ass kicked in...

K and R'd

Good call SR

[rosesaylavee]

199. I like that - say it again... TOGETHER WE WIN!

[Swamp Rat]

205. Way'at opihimoimoi!

Me go to Hawaii someday. You me go blue water get big fish... houla girls, pig roast, drink, smoke, we give republican to Pele, have great time! :D :9

[opihimoimoi]

220. I don think Pele would like them Pubs...distasteful lil POS's

I like the other things tho...

Come, we go fish for Marlin...those 1,500 pounders...forget those tiny ass Bush fish...friggen wimp would die to land a small tuna 200 lbs...

[Swamp Rat]

202. I have my samba whistle, but my surdo is a bit louder... it moves air instead of cutting through it.

That's why Brazilians call it "surdo" (large bass drum) which means "deaf" in portuguese because it is so loud. During Mardi Gras parades and peace marches you can hear me way before you can see me. :D

Oh yeah, BREATHE people... :grouphug:

[rosesaylavee]

219. I can hear it!

[Swamp Rat]

221. More like this:

Oba! :D

[LittleClarkie]

201. So those who disagree with you and point out the rules of the board

are disrupters, sycophants and causers of strife?

That assumes alot, methinks.

I merely look for an even handed application of the rules. I don't want their application to depend on whether we like the Independent in question. Lieberman supporters = bad, Sheehan supporters = good. That would be bogus and make a farce out of the rules and the moderation for that matter.

Does saying so make me a meme spreader and a strife causer?

[salib]

231. Quit whining!

[ProudDad]

269. Continue the comparison

lie-berman = war lover

Sheehan = end war

Which of those are representing Democratic values and which not.

That IS the point as far as I'm concerned.

For instance, I'd take Pete McClosky over DiFi any day of the week.

His values are more congruent with mine (and traditional Democratic Values) than DiFi's pro-war machine stance.

http://securingamerica.com/ccn/node/4106

"I believe human-caused global warming is a real threat. I regret the Bush Administration’s steady erosion of the regulations supporting clean air, clean water and wilderness. I support stem cell research, a woman’s right of choice and the Oregon “Death With Dignity” law. I regret that our national energy policy has been organized in secret by my former House colleague Dick Cheney, in consultation with energy industry leaders whose names we have not been allowed to even know. I favor a minimum of secrecy in government. The President’s refusal to provide the names of White House staff dealing with Abramoff is not a good thing for restoring public faith in our Government. I believe the President’s actions that failed to comply with the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act were in excess of his powers. I favor Marine Corps veteran Jack Murtha’s position for a measured and honorable withdrawal from Iraq within a year. Only Iraqis can determine whether they will have a civil war and what kind of government will ultimately evolve. I do not believe we can long act as an occupying power in order to build new nations on the Asian continent, nor should we work through our CIA to overturn duly-elected leaders in Latin America. I shuddered when the President embraced the Reverend Pat Robertson, a man his father rightly had reason to detest in 1988 when Robertson ran against him, and even more so today. We are a Nation under God, but with a constitutional freedom of religion and from religion. I have served as a Ruling Elder of the Presbyterian Church, but I would not want to impose Presbyterian views on Catholics, Buddhists, Muslims or even Episcopalians." Pete McClosky...

When I joined DU back in '01, it was a forum for survival and commiseration and exchange of PROGRESSIVE ideals. It seems to have devolved but, damn, sometimes it gets tiring -- all the bickering.

I've been guilty of it too. Sorry... Sometimes my irony and sarcasm are misunderstood -- sometimes not -- ooops. :spank:

Primarily I want my views tested by reading other opinions but I hope that my views and experience may be read in the same spirit.

Thanks for this thread. It's refreshing to take a deep breath and then have at it again... :hi:

[Swamp Rat]

272. And thank you for being here.

and thank you for your contributions in this thread - I've read every one. ;) :hi:

[KittyWampus]

203. "Well-known trolls and DLC sycophants"? You forgot "Poopie-heads". But you won't leave DU

you need the audience for your constant barrage of graphics.

Myself? I won't leave but spend less and less time.

Who the fuck needs to spend a lot of internet time with reactionary screamers who like to think they're so informed but really just like to bitch and moan about yesterday's news.

Oh, and wanting DU'ers to move their cheerleading for Cindy as Indie running against a Democrat isn't trollery. It's abiding by stated intent of this site.

[Vidar]

204. Great post, Swampie. Recommended.

[lonestarnot]

206. Not loosing me.

Me being nice. :P

[Swamp Rat]

207. LOL!

:hug:

Me too! Me bite tongue. Me not take advantage... :D



:grouphug:

[HughMoran]

209. Hear! hear! Swampy

Tell it like it is - the "concern trolls" are not a force for good here or anywhere. They are too often plants.

[Swamp Rat]

213. LOL!

Your avatar... :rofl:

[Mutineer]

214. DU should be an open forum

we should have healthy debate. No one should tell anyone to shut up or move it elsewhere unless they're a moderator and close a thread for a good reason. Diversity of opinion and not agreeing with someone's opinion is not a good reason to try and shut them down.

[jgraz]

215. Dead on right, swampy

:applause:

[TreasonousBastard]

216. So I'm a troll and disruptor? Maybe I didn't...

start this Cindy shit but I'm sure not at all interested in Cindy waltzing into San Francisco and pulling a Nader getting attention by talking about unseating one of the most unseatable Democrats in Congress.

As far as I'm concerned it's just more political theater and Cindy trying to get another 15 minutes after her first shot flamed out.

No, I don't have anything against Cindy, and I certainly admire the whole Camp Casey thing and what she has managed to do. But, if she can't keep it going without stunts, then why should we support those stunts? Particularly when those stunts hurt what's already our own.

Trolls didn't start any rift here-- we started it ourselves by agreeing with Cindy when she trashed the Democratic Congress just like so many here have been trashing them.

I will ask, as others have, just who the fuck is Cindy Sheehan that she is now the savior of Democracy, the American Way, and apple pie?

[salib]

230. Give it up!

[EFerrari]

237. I must have missed those claims. And maybe you should come out here

and talk to Nancy's district and decide for yourself how "unseatable" she is.

[ProudDad]

271. Then why are you afraid of her exercise?

of her rights as a citizen?

"Cindy waltzing into San Francisco and pulling a Nader getting attention by talking about unseating one of the most unseatable Democrats in Congress."

Pelosi's unseatable...you said so...

Why worry?

[ruggerson]

218. So anyone who thinks she's an idiot is a "troll" eh?

Uh, ok.

[salib]

228. Give it up!

[ruggerson]

234. The best album Bonnie Raitt ever did n/t

[salib]

235. Best thing I have heard you say. So far.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

229. Cindy Sheehan is definitely smarter than most and K & R. She's probably smarter than you.

:-) MKJ

[WillyT]

232. Yeah... But You're Still Pretty Darn Cute !!!

[EFerrari]

236. We cannot stop ourselves, can we?

lol

[ruggerson]

238. and why do I get the one with the lavender hair?

:)

[WillyT]

239. Only One I Could Find ???

:hi:

[unkachuck]

240. thank you Swamp Rat....

....Cindy's a true patriot; she will always have my love and respect....

[Old and In the Way]

241. Maybe Cindy would consider running as a Republican?

Just thinking outside the box here!

Seriously, Mrs. Sheehan can do whatever she damn well pleases and raising the impeachment heat doesn't bother me in the least. Ultimately, it would be silly to seriously consider swapping out Pelosi for Sheehan, but Ms. Pelosi should (and I suspect is) prepared to support a bill of impeachment. But, realistically speaking, it has to be driven from the bottom up through the House. She may well be the last person to sign on. Why? Because she'd be in line for the Presidency if bills are enacted, voted on, and the Criminal Twins are removed from office. So as Speaker, she can't be leading this without actually damaging the chances of its success. Seems like 2 weeks ago, the only place the word Impeachment was being discussed was on the internets....now the spillover is definitely into the mainstream. The more people are talking and arguing about it the more momentum it gains. But there will be no impeachment before its time. At the rate the Republican Party is sinking, they may be begging Nancy to get a bill out of committee before the Fall. I'm betting Ms. Pelosi's a pretty darn good cook and when impeachment is served, it's going to be well prepared and thoroughly cooked.

[Swamp Rat]

248. Then set the table Nancy!

:D

[Octafish]

246. It's how they operate.

Divide and Conquer.
Divide and Conquer.
Divide and Conquer.
Divide and Conquer.
Divide and Conquer.
Divide and Conquer.
Divide and Conquer.
Divide and Conquer.
Divide and Conquer.
Divide and Conquer.
Divide and Conquer.
Divide and Conquer.
Divide and Conquer.
Divide and Conquer.
Divide and Conquer.
Divide and Conquer.
Divide and Conquer.
Divide and Conquer.
Divide and Conquer.
Divide and Conquer.
Divide and Conquer.
Divide and Conquer.
Divide and Conquer.
Divide and Conquer.
Divide and Conquer.
Divide and Conquer.
Divide and Conquer.
Divide and Conquer.
Divide and Conquer.
Divide and Conquer.

Repeat.

Then there's only you and me left.
And we wouldn't be able to agree on that,
if we weren't brothers,
no matter what.

[Swamp Rat]

250. ¡Órale compay!

:thumbsup: :hi:

[IChing]

256. Octafish

the battle for truth when it is revealed
will always be tried to make those that
speak it disenfranchised.

The attacks will get worse, the ones that defend
Katrina, and the rape on this planet are being called
accountable. At least I hope so.

What I see is that time and consciousness
may meet the goals of 2012 one day that we may have a
change that meets the goals of this planet with human participation..

My friend you I support you

[EFerrari]

263. That's right.

[Danger Mouse]

254. There's a disturbing trend among some DUer's...

that seem to think Cindy Sheehan is above any criticism and equate people that do criticize her to being freeper trolls. Yes, some people take it too far, stooping to vulgar personal attacks, but many people have politely and in a civil manner expressed their disagreement as well. I'm sorry, but I don't support Cindy Sheehan. I'm not going to stoop to name calling, either. But I don't like her and I don't agree with her actions. Maybe at one point I did.
But no longer.
Just my h.o.

[Swamp Rat]

257. Thank you

for politely disagreeing. :hi:

[Danger Mouse]

259. She IS on our side...calling Ann Coulter a dumb piece of shit is one thing...

noone on DU likes Ann Coulter. I don't like Cindy, but a lot of DUer's do, so hurling insults at her just inflames people and lowers the bar. So I'd rather not do it. However, the flinging of mud is coming from more than one angle in this situation. I started a thread where I basically said that, like it or not, DUer's have the right to criticize public figures. One of the colorful posts there insinuated that 'i only said that so i could justify holding my stupid opinions.'
I'm sick of the nastiness from cindy supporters AND cindy haters.

[nolabels]

273. I wish a hundred or a thousand just like her would just stand up and say NO

They got her son murdered as part of ante so they could play their perverse politics. I would not try estimate what that is like but i especially also wouldn't want to be the one pointed to as being responsible for.

She and all others who have lost loved ones or had them damaged or maimed need as many of us that could be found to stand up to these animals that are destroying our country and running our government into the ground.

I am not saying you should agree with anything but wondering if you have enough compassion to put yourself in their shoes for a minute. How would that really feel :shrug:

[Danger Mouse]

305. So...because I don't agree with her you say I'm lacking in compassion?

I work with kids whose lives have been warped and who have suffered pain comparable to cindy sheehan before even hitting puberty. You know what? As much as their lives suck, they still have to be held accountable for their actions. It's easy to give them a free pass because you feel sorry for them. Cindy Sheehan is no different...she has suffered greatly, but that doesn't give her carte blanche to do as she pleases...she still has to have responsibility for her actions, and by making herself a public figure, she is subject to criticism. Anyway, I have plenty of compassion, trust me. I have to.
I have compassion for her, and I think it's good that her and others like her are trying to bring the war to an end. However, I don't think that going after Nancy Pelosi is the answer, and lately, I just don't agree with her actions. It's not a lack of compassion for her, or thinking that she should just shut up, it's me simply thinking that the way she's going about 'helping' our cause isn't helping at all.

[nolabels]

311. Their is a lot of things i don't like but know the equilibrium of life dictates that.

Thank you for showing your compassion and understanding, especially with them children your helping. A moment of compassion is the best place i have found when i get angry with something. Somebody that is hurt, wounded and tired will often become angry too. I personally think it's kind of a brilliant move on Cindy's part as far as it gives her a real goal that is possible to accomplish. I'm guessing they may both get a little nicked up if something doesn't give but i am also guessing both sides will be the better for it. This would not be a challenge of persons but of wills. To the point it dilutes efforts of others, well like they say, no pain - no gain.





Btw, i really don't really think there is much possibility for either party's mind to be swayed that much but i do understand with time these things have a way of working themselves out. Like many other things in politics, only that time passing will ever be able to tell. And thanks again, for at least thinking how it might be if you were in the shoes of the other party

[Imagevision]

266. At the rate Pelosi is going? she'll have to be replaced by some damn body, all talk no action, excep

when she bitched because her plane wasn't big enough.. anyone in DU. been to Crawford to call out Bush while on his vacation last year, then follow the prick back to DC.?? huh, anyone!! well, Cindy amongst others did GD. it!!

[zehnkatzen]

270. I'm no tabula rasa

Marc Maron said it best: the big philosophical question today is "who's using me, and am I okay with that?". And on some level I agree.

What I truly dispise, though, is this pervasive idea that I am no more than an empty vessel waiting to be filled by someone's opinion. It seems these days that if you conclude that the Iraq war was in error, the government is dishonest, and health care and the economy are both broken, you didn't come to that conclusion on your own; someone cajoled you into it.

So, when it's time (yet again) to smear Cindy Sheehan over her desire to have one single question answered, why am I not surprised that it may well be because a group of people decided I didn't have the right opinion and needed to be swayed?

Why aren't some people just willing to accept that I think she's right and that they're not going to change my mind? And then to go smear people again–there was a time in America that we didn't gratuitously do that (at least I think there was).

For the edification of anyone who thinks I'm The Enemy (I'm speaking editorially here, not j'accusing anyone), here's what I believe:

– The Iraq war was wrong, it was promoted on a bed of untruth, and it will be a stain on our national soul for lifetimes.

- Cindy Sheehan isn't a drama queen trading on her son's loss.

- Given the truth and a convenient lie, any given Republican will lie to me, even when they don't have to, just for the fun of it.

- The worst lie a liberal ever told has more truth in it than a Republican or "conservative" fact, and has done far less damage on the country. People aren't perfect.

Moreover, I'm not anyone's mind slave, I don't credulously swallow everything I'm told by those I agree with. I arrived at my opinions not, as some do, by adopting "talking points" that happen to agree with the way I feel about things, but by looking, seeing, and reasoning.

I think for myself. That's why I'm a liberal.

[Swamp Rat]

275. Nice to meet you

:hi: Your graphic design work is top notch! :applause:



www.swamp-rat.com

[zehnkatzen]

283. Likewise...

Back atcha, Swamp Rat.

Your art is...disturbing. But for all the right reasons. Well done.

[NuttyFluffers]

274. i'm gone 2 weeks and i've seen nothing has changed then....

still hysteria du jour, usually divide and conquer stuff, and again about cindy. it's almost comfortingly reliable, but still sad.

anyway, i had a wonderful east coast (virginia to massachusetts) vacation, a whirlwind historical tour, and found it most enlightening. did you know that the nation was roughly 50/50 whether to split from britain in the revolutionary war? it was also around 50/50 for the civil war! it was brother against brother in both. but y'know what, there were people who were brave enough to get up and stand up and do the right thing anyway. it was bloody, it was horrible -- but it needed to be done. why? because it was the right thing to do, nothing more, nothing less. it was such an enlightening lesson. you don't need unanimous approval to do the right thing, you just need to courage to follow your principles...

anyway, i still think DU has more potential to do the right (productive) thing. i think DU should be scouting out for fragile GOP seats all throughout the country for dems/progressives to snap up, even if the positions are just on school boards. it would produce far more tangible results than all this pointless bickering and dividing. love GD and all, but i still think we need a Viper Pit where we can all play not-nice, get it out of our system, and then go back to GD and actually do or discuss something pro-active. i mean, we "debate" about things like this as if our very next 5 minutes of breath depends on it, where maybe barely 8% of the population even knows or cares. SF is a progressive and aware city, but even here i can't imagine the energy and friction produced at local bars and coffee shops that could rival the firestorms we regularly weather in GD. sometimes i think people need to get a grip and go on a vacation....
:7

[Imagevision]

276. Cindy does have San Francisco going for her, the money talks bullshit walks crowd...

[ClayZ]

281. Yay Swamp Rat! K and R

[Zensea]

286. Nobody needed to manufacture anything to cause strife here

This place has been the same for years.
Every week there is some version of this strife.
It's an endless recurrence & it's always about the same type of shit, the only thing that changes are the news items causing the strife & even those don't change that much.
& there are always these worries about DU losing people.
Well DU has "lost" a lot of people.
Anyone remember the primary wars?

Doesn't seem to me that anything is being "manufactured." It's part of the territory of this place right from the beginning. The whole concept of something being "manufactured" strikes me as being rather silly (and I am not being naive about this). Sure there are trolls and sycophants involved, but there are also plenty of others and the same thing would be going on (though perhaps to a lesser degree) without the trolls and sychophants. It's just another manifestation of the Democratic party eating its own.

[bonito]

289. Well done! K&R!

:thumbsup:

[brentspeak]

291. Clue: It's not Nancy Pelosi who the concern trolls are advocating for

[EFerrari]

295. That's right. It's DU. Have a problem with that?

We haven't had an argument yet this week, brentspeak. lol :hi:

[Danger Mouse]

304. concern trolls...

there's a hearty old chestnut. :eyes:

[brentspeak]

309. Yeah, and just as timely and true as ever

[Danger Mouse]

310. Let me put this out there...

I don't support Sheehan.
But concern trolls...do enlighten me on this subject.
I hear it all the time, it gives me a headache, I think I've even been called one.
What is one?

[mike_c]

293. agreed 100 percent....

:thumbsup:

[me b zola]

298. This thread needs to be back on page 1

:kick:

[Swamp Rat]

323. Ok

If you say so. :D

[Cha]

301. Yeah,

as someone so astutely pointed out Yesterday on DU..zell miller has a d after his name. Not saying Nancy is a zell out but if Cindy can bring some debate about impeachment/getting outta Iraq TO THE FUCKING TABLE then I'm all for her Answering The Call.

Thanks for this thread Monsieur Swamp.

[sleipnir]

314. I thought she quit politics because of name-calling on message boards?

How is she going to run for a major public office?

I think she should stick to her advocacy, as her previous actions haven't demonstrated the ability to survive in the current political verbal and mental knife-fight.

A public servant is not always a good politician. I think Cindy would make a fantastic public servant and I think there are many venues in which she can demonstrate her strengths.

[sanskritwarrior]

316. SO.................

I'm supposed to sit back and take it, when someone is gunning to unseat a female Democratic Speaker of the House? I'm supposed to sit back and take it when the woman calls my party "the party of slavery"? I'm supposed to not criticize this woman when she says that my party started every war in the 20th century, a claim that doesn't hold true in any history book every written?

I'm sorry this is Democratic Underground, not Cindy Sheehan Underground. Her time is up, she is an embarassment to our party and the sooner she fades into the sunset, the better for serious people that want to solve our nations problems without a deranged unhinged woman who blames the Democratic party for all 20th century wars all the while as she uses the party to further her own personal ends...............

[seemslikeadream]

318. Nancy Pelosi should IMPEACH

THE CRIMINALS IN THE WHITE HOUSE

[seemslikeadream]

319. Goddam DINO traitor enabler Democrats!!!111

I didn't say it Will Pitt did :P

So it's OK

[seemslikeadream]

320. "GB is a lovely man, from a lovely, patriotic family" N. Pelosi

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=1213004

[seemslikeadream]

321. I love you Cindy

What is the Noble Cause, Nancy?


I have a broken heart

I will work my butt off to have you impeached

http://www.ericblumrich.com/vigil.html

[seemslikeadream]

interesting poll in GDP

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3370121&mesg_id=3370187

[seemslikeadream]

322. interesting poll in GDP

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3370121&mesg_id=3370187