Northern "blue" state? Southern "red" state? Not much difference between the two

[brentspeak]

Every now and then, some idiot, moron, fool (take your pick) will make a disparaging comment about the South and/or "red" states, usually for the sole purpose of disrupting the boards, to pi$$ off people, try to alienate members, what have you.

Yet these same idiots never seem to point out the countless Bush/GOP supporters that the Blue states have. Here in NJ, there is no shortage of "Bush/Cheney 2004" bumper stickers; no shortage of Hummers; no shortage of "support the troops" yellow magnets (everybody supports the troops; just not empty slogans manufactured in China); no shortage of "Rush is Right" bumperstickers, etc.

2004 Presidential Election results for New Jersey: (taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_of_the_U.S._presidential_election%2C_2004)

Kerry: 1,911,430
Bush: 1,670,003

That's one million, six-hundred-and-seventy-thousand Bush voters in the "blue" state of New Jersey.

So much for the morans who attempt to denigrate the red states.

[Bluzmann57]

1. It's a great big country

and obviously, there are Republicans as well as Democrats everywhere. So Blue State, Red State, we're all still Americans. Are Democrats in Nebraska any worse than Democrats in New York? I don't think so.

[wildhorses]

2. thank you for this

i truly appreciate it.

[brentspeak]

77. You're welcome.

:)

[rudy23]

3. Right there with you. I meant for this to be a response to the Vermonter who was making fun of N.O.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3367189&mesg_id=3367189

[Frances]

4. You make a good point

I live in a blue state (CA); I also live very near the coast which is the blue part of this blue state. Yet my town is Repub. So are the majority of the people who live in my townhouse development.

[supernova]

5. Thank you brentspeak

from another purple stater. :D

[brentspeak]

76. You're welcome.

:)

[NoodleBoy]

6. Ironically, New Jersey has been the destination for some migration from the South

Especially Virginia, such as Woodrow Wilson's family.

Anyway, I think the whole color state thing is pretty stupid, and it's a cop out for some people-- "I'm not politically active in my community because I live in a red state."

It's also used by pretty arrogant pricks to make sweeping, stupid statements about politics, such as right after the 2004 election and a few mouth breathers were trying to say that the amount of acreage in "red states" meant that Americans were somehow overwhelmingly conservative. Some on our side do something of the same thing, insisting that anyone who lives in a "red state" is an ignorant racist who shouldn't be allowed to vote.

[monmouth]

18. I'm a Jersey girl living in a red state but thankfully, a lot of Jerseyites

and New Yawkers are down here with me. If I could afford it I'd be back in Jersey (at the shore) in a heartbeat. This red state is slowly turning purple (Florida) and bet it will be entirely blue by the time of the'08 elections. Repukes getting disgusted...

[TahitiNut]

7. How many of those 1,670,003 speak with a drawl?

:evilgrin: :hide: :hide:

[brentspeak]

8. Not many. But a lot of us speak with poor man's Brooklyn accents

As I used to, up until age 10 or so. ;)

[jdlh8894]

9. Doesn't matter

Our individual votes on a national level don't count.(as per 2000)

[jwirr]

25. This I understand, I lived most of my life in Iowa, a perpetually red

state. Only recently has the Democratic Party been able to hold their own, probably starting with Hughes back in the 70s. My family registered pug because that was the only way that you could have something to say about local officials, who often ran unopposed in the general elections. Most of us Democrats knew each other and worked together but we did not win many state and fed elections.

I realize that the labels red/blue do not reflect much of anything except which way the state voted in the last election.

However, when it comes to why social programs/or schools do not work I retain the right to criticize the attitudes toward these issues on a north/south basis. In the north there is a strong union background that reflects the idea that we work together for the common good. In the south there is an equally strong tradition of individualism that reflects an everyone for themselves attitude. Social programs do not work very well under the latter. When I say this about these two areas I do not mean that every northerner/southerner is part of the problem but that there is a prevailing attitude in each area. Right wing religions have a lot to do with the attitudes.

[Tigress DEM]

65. Then it should more properly be called a "red state attitude" because people can choose an attitude.

And if we focus on the attitude and not the entire population it allows us to talk about the growing trend toward sanity where people aren't as much blue or red as fed up with corruption and looking for real answers.

[jwirr]

113. Agreed.

[bryant69]

10. all i know is I'm tired of the South

But indifferent to the red states in the Midwest and West

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[rudy23]

13. The South is tired of people who make sweeping judgements about all people in one geographic region

Especially when Bill Clinton, Al Gore, John Edwards, Stephen Colbert, etc. etc. are among the Southerners who are being lumped in with your version of what a Southerner is.

[bryant69]

17. I live here - and the people you noted, and others besides, are the exception, not the rule. n/t

[rudy23]

20. You're talking about the difference between 4 in 10 Bushies and 6 in 10

I'm not saying there's not a difference at all, I just think it's exagerrated. All these "blue states" have plenty of red in them.

Still, a city is a city is a city. Some of the cities down here are Purple to Red, but it's mostly how it is in other places. The young, urban people are more progressive, the older crowd who doesn't work in the liberal arts fields are mostly uptight conservatives.

I will say that I am pretty insulated from the bible belt here in Southern Louisiana. Some of those places are pretty different from anywhere else in the country.

[RaleighNCDUer]

40. You know what? That 'little' difference is what put Bushco in charge.

I'd say that makes for a pretty big difference.

[rudy23]

51. Yes, and maybe if people like you laid off the South bashing, that little difference would vanish.

I'm sure of it.

[RaleighNCDUer]

60. And I can say, just as catagorically,

bullshit.

People don't vote against their own interests because of other peoples' dislike of them. It's because of their own dislike of the other people.

It is the south that is still fighting the civil war. People come down here from up north for the first time and are amazed to find that it is not ancient history. It's a scab the south keeps scratching, not the north.

[Tigress DEM]

70. I don't know a lot about the south, but I know people. You define one type of person only.

You said:

People don't vote against their own interests because of other peoples' dislike of them. It's because of their own dislike of the other people.

I think that is a perfectly fair assessment of many people you know in the south. I am not disputing that. Nor the ancient history aspect vs the confederate flag on proud display. My husband's aunt is a born & bred northerner but lived in Greensboro & Arkansas for a time and came back with a much less open mind.

However, even if that is the case, the BIGGER problem is education. Many people don't THINK they are voting against their best interest until they get the facts. And if we have the facts, we are the people they need to hear from whether they like it or not.

And we NEED them to listen because they COULD be allies. If we all just got together and really fought for what is good for America and cut out the name calling and such, it couldn't hurt.


THE POWER MONGERS in the South aren't voting against their own interests because all this lying and cheating is filling their pockets big time. We need to target them and their behaviors specifically just like a hanging judge with a full on non-partisan hell fury against lying and cheating.

If we can break the power mongers down by getting convictions for them breaking the law one after the other, then the klan way has no one to feed it what it needs to attract members. Problem is right now, many of them ARE the law (cough- jeb bush).

[Clark2008]

86. Ummmm... fuck no.

I hear entirely more about the fucking Civil War on this board than I ever do in my many conversations with fellow Southerners. Y'all are OBSESSED with believing we're obsessed with it - when we're not.

I'm sorry, but you're full of shit.

[RaleighNCDUer]

96. I didn't say that southerners are obsessed with the civil war -

though I have met several who are. I said, it is not ancient history. It is as if it has been absorbed on a molecular level. The physical signs, the flags, the monuments and of course, the battlefields are everywhere. They don't exist in the north. In the south you see reminders on practically a daily basis. On top of that, state history is emphasized much more in schools, and more of it deals with the civil war - tho from my conversations it would seem the information is slightly slanted and to a degree incomplete - too often there seem to be doubts that the war was, fundamentally, over slavery. (To be fair, most histories in the north tend to gloss over such things as Lincoln's violation of Habeas.)

Face it, nobody thinks a thing of someone moving from Texas to North Carolina. But someone moves from Massachusets to NC, that person is a foreigner, a yankee, an outsider, and will remain so indefinitely. To a huge proportion of southerners, northerners are, if not exactly the enemy, certainly suspect. Yet, turn it around and move from Texas to Michigan, nobody thinks twice about it.

So where does the onus lie?

[Alexander]

111. My cousin in GA sports a Confederate flag in his room...

And sadly is not at all comfortable around black people.

It's the way his mother brought him up. Most Southerners I know aren't like this, but there are still folks re-fighting a 140 year-old war.

[Tigress DEM]

68. That and Diebold in his pocket.

Still I think there is room to allow former "red states" ways to save face and make decisions based on facts rather than party and try not to reinforce the stereotypes and push people away.

I think people are people and if we got rid of the electoral college and voted directly we would find a lot different make up of the red & blue balance anyway.

[Tigress DEM]

67. Still if you label them "all" as flawed what incentive to join if they'll be judged anyway?

To me, the main point is if we are true DEMs then it's up to us to not be judgmental and make sweeping generalizations that are diplomatically stupid. The whole bi-partisan movement during the Clinton years built on what we have in common and what is really best for the country vs hanging on to grievances.

If your worst enemy walks up beside you to help build the dyke that will keep the river out of both of your back yards, it isn't the time to point out political differences. Maybe a time to form a little respect and build room for future dialog.



When I watched clips from the Red State Road trip it was amazing how people were speaking the talking points but when you asked what was important to them it was obvious they were voting against their own values and to their own detriment by going with the rethugs.

http://redstateroadtrip.com

Education and patience help. Labeling doesn't.

[Tigress DEM]

63. So it would be better to talk about a "Deep South Mentality" instead do you think?

It's more the way people think and act and try to hang on to the prejudicial type of life that used to be the law in the deep south until civil rights broke through.

That happens everywhere.. just look up where the KKK is established. They are EVERYWHERE. Recently I am hearing of minorities joining with these groups and committing crimes against their own race because they want to fit in.

Look at Condi or Gonzales. So driven to pursue power that they are lackeys and scapegoats for the most evil president ever. Risen to the rank of overseers but still slaves non the less.

It's the mentality, not the geography.

[Clark2008]

85. Don't forget Wes Clark - the ONLY person actually talking about

Iran these days.

[BlooInBloo]

11. lolol! Keep trying to ignore it, folks! Maybe it'll disappear on its own! rofl!

[rudy23]

32. Keep living in your oversimplified, binary world ROLTFL!

Good to see that prejudice and sweeping generalizations aren't confined to one party.

[raccoon]

33. He just proved the OP's point. nt

[BreweryYardRat]

106. Y'know, I was reading this before I logged in.

Do what I did a long time ago, and put that asshole BlooinBloo on ignore. I'm pretty sure he's a Republican infiltrator, here to give us all a bad name.

Or he's my high school economics teacher, who was the biggest jackass I've ever seen call himself a liberal.

One or the other.

[Ian David]

12. I have no problem with "The Red States"

But fuck the red COUNTIES!

Yeah!

WWW.FUCKTHEREDCOUNTIES.COM











:SARCASM:

[rudy23]

15. Getting warmer nt

[Warpy]

14. Like I keep trying to tell them, the south is purple

and trending more blue-violet every day. The Baptists have a lot of folks down there voting against their interest, but the religious folks aren't fools for long and they're realizing that this is the most immoral gang that has ever seized control of the country.

I also mention that the real moron corridor in the last two elections ran from Texas all the way up to the Dakotas, but that even they are getting quite purple these days. Only Utah, Idaho, Wyoming and part of Nebraska are being recalcitrant, and that's because of a kneejerk reaction against anything with a "D" attached to it that has lasted over a century.

As millennial fever fades, expect the insane religiosity to fade with it. The south will never be progressive, the culture is against it. However, they can be pragmatic. Condemning them as a region of inbred, unreachable morons is a losing proposition. Convincing them that their economic self interest lies in voting Democratic is a winning proposition.

[rudy23]

16. It would be so much bluer if Democrats stopped looking down their noses at them.

That is the only thing keeping the Republicans in control down here.

Believe it or not, there are plenty of the most stereotypically conservative Southerners who are FED UP with the GOP. The only thing that keeps them from voting for a Democrat is the idea that Democrats see them as mentally deficient children.

[Warpy]

22. Right, and that's the main reason I favor both Edwards

and Richardson. Those guys know better. Plus, they've been out of DC long enough to gain a little perspective from outside the beltway.

[RaleighNCDUer]

27. Which attitude proves them to be the mentally deficient children

they are.

[rudy23]

30. No, it proves they're self respecting people who don't take crap like you're spewing

Are you on the right forum?

What about all African Americans? All gay citizens?

[RaleighNCDUer]

34. "The only thing that keeps them from voting Democratic..."

I don't know what the fuck you're talking about. All African Americans? All gay citizens? What the fuck does that mean?

I'm talking about the morons who vote against their own interests because great-granddaddy fought under the Stars and Bars. The morons who think that all yankees are faggots or communists or, better yet, communist faggots.

Are THESE the people who are "fed up with the GOP and would vote for a Democrat..."?

Or are they really closet liberals who refuse to vote for Democrats because some Democrat somewhere once said something they didn't like?

"What about all African Americans? All gay citizens?"

Where the fuck did that come from?

[rudy23]

38. It's not some Democrat just once. It's people like you who say it every day.

That's far more important to most swing voters and fed up Republicans than the Civil War. That's exactly the kind of cartoonish stereotype that drives these people to vote against their own interests, policy wise--to vote for someone who doesn't make them feel like dog crap every day--even if they cheat and steal like a "typical politician".

I think many people down here will vote for politics as usual, over someone who outright hates them because of where they live.

[RaleighNCDUer]

44. It's not where they live.

I happen to live there, too. I suspect you do, as well, tho that can't be verified because your profile is disabled.

It is not where they live.

It is what they do. And keep doing. Year after year. Decade after decade. Putting religion before reason. Putting southern patriotism before national patriotism. Clinging to a mythical golden age of their father's father's day, which never existed. Ignorant, and proud of it.

And it's not because the blue states hate them. It's because they hate the blue states. Think about it. Is it conservatives or liberals who are tolerant of other lifestyles? Did 9 of 10 lynchings happen (and still happen) in red states or blue states? Which want to put god into the constitution and the government into the bedroom, liberals or conservatives?

It is not the region that is the problem. It is the narrowmindedness, the insularity, the reflexive defensiveness of people who do not want to confront their own demons.

It's not the region. It's the people that make the region red.

[rudy23]

48. Correct, but you're talking about the difference between 60% of the people and 40% in "Blue States"

My recent trips to Ohio, New England, and Chicago have shattered my illusion of a Blue State utopia away from all those horrible values.

[RaleighNCDUer]

61. Well, in case you haven't noticed, 60% makes for a majority.

:eyes:

[fishwax]

93. they buy into cartoonish stereotypes of their own

Some northerners may look down on southerners, sure, but plenty of southerners look down their noses at northern dems as well, buying into the convenient meme that the democratic party is filled with/lead by volvo-driving, latte-sipping, sushi-eating liberals who couldn't possibly understand them or their problems :eyes:

[Tigress DEM]

84. ALL Southerners and ALL Africans or ALL Gays is an over generalization.

You have every right to look at specific actions of Southerners and say those actions are totally fucked. AND you would be right.

But to move from that into saying "all southerners ... whatever" is the kind of over generalization that keeps us at war with people who we could easily work with just fine if we let ourselves get to know them.

Realize that the klan indoctrinates people whenever possible to believe that if you get in with those high brow DEMs, they're just going to judge you as being a stupid hick. For years and years that worked for them and I doubt they've given up on it.

DEMs or people who would like to stand up for themselves are SURROUNDED by the very people you lump them in with. If strong DEMS can stand WITH them and say, "I may not agree with everything you believe, but I stand WITH YOU and AGAINST this rouge government that is trying to take our rights away." THIS is the kind of shit that can change the world.

It took a lot of education on both sides to make people understand not to lump all blacks or gays together.

But I'm sure you wouldn't feel right accusing a random black guy of a crime just because it happened in his state. How can you accuse a random Southerner for something they may be fighting against, just because it happens in their state?

It's going to take MORE education to get the North and South to finally, really stop fighting this war.

If you feel you need to keep making slurs against the whole South because of a select group of morons, then YOU are keeping the WAR going as much as THEY are. UNFORTUNATELY, since we are the ones who want PEACE, that means WE LOSE.

[HardRocker05]

37. yep; they demand to be constantly told how superior they are, or else they'll pout and be very diffi

difficult.

[rudy23]

39. No, just not inferior. Nice strawman, though. nt

[nealmhughes]

28. Indeed, nothing pisses off people more than to assume that any area is a monolithic bastion of any-

thing! The South is only a bastion of heat, humidity and sweet tea.
Do Yankees assume that everyone in the South is a racist fat old white man who has a pickup with 2 coondogs and a shotgun over the back of the cab, works in a garage with many forays into the swamp to trap nutria, then go up into the mountains to hunt possum and then dance to Zydeco and C and W music at a honky tonk before going to snake handlings and trying to get his tobacco/cotton/sugar cane crop in for the fall and never leave the same county?
Good Lord! Cities are divided and clearly culturally distinct from neighborhood to neighborhood throughout the nation, much less in the South!
When one has a book that describes how the South can be written off and given serious endorsement and not merely reviewed critically, one has the makings of a "See, they are evil and need to be punished" mentality.
I have lived in New England, on Long Island,the Gulf Coast, in Florida, in Europe, and even for a short time in Idaho. However, the Tennessee River Valley will always be home, without regard to where I happen to be, and I have some charming memories of all of them. Friends made and then left with great reluctance, local foods and accents that I hear on the TV or radio and say, "They must be from the West Bank of NOLA!" or "Obviously from Goose Creek or Hanahan SC -- or Kittery, ME -- Providence RI -- or the Clydeside!"
What I have never done is make assumptions of cultural superiority in any area in which I have lived, worked or studied. I wish that the regional bashing would go the fornication away!

[Tigress DEM]

74. Did Foxworthy help or hurt, do you think?

He made it possible for people to laugh at themselves and not feel bad about it. (ie: being a redneck)

And I think it made the North a little less prickly about it. (ie: conversing with rednecks as people)

But did he reinforce that the whole redneck lifestyle needs to be preserved and defended?

I think changing party affiliation takes a whole lot out of a person and I don't think lifetime DEMs really can understand how much more effective we are when we walk the walk about being open to ALL types of people.

We'd never talk like this about Africans from Darfur trying to salvage their lives and lump them in the same pot as their oppressors.

We'd never put a closeted gay in the same pot with people who would beat him to death if they found out.

But we take a whole state of individuals and blame them for the sins of their ancestors and current idiots in charge.

[fishwax]

92. it's a two-way street, though, and southerners looking down at northern or coastal dems is just

as common, using "hollywood liberals" or "east coast elites" as punching bags.

I lived in a very red state for quite a long time, and I understand and sympathize the isolation southern dems feel, as well as the frustration of seeing an entire state or region smeared by the actions of the few.

But at the same time, in my experience they give just as good as they get, and are just as quick to buy into stereotypes of other regions as those who bash the south on a site like this.

[Ian David]

19. I still think we should give Texas back to Mexico, and Utah back to the Indians.

I think the rest of the country can be reasoned with.

All our Progressive, Texan and Utahan bretheren can come crash on my couch if they want to leave before the hand-overs.

[rudy23]

21. See, you're missing out on a progressive movement in Salt Lake City

Why not encourage more movements like this, and resist the urge to climb on that "blue state" high horse?

[Ian David]

24. We can build walls around progressive cities and airlift supplies to them. n/t

[Tigress DEM]

91. That must be a BIG Couch. lol

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rudy23]

31. How bout a more relevant map?

[BlooInBloo]

46. I'll play along, and pretend it's *truly* relevance you're interested in...

You're welcome to google "diffusion cartogram" if you're interested in what additional information this gives. I suspect, however, that anything that disagrees with "there's nothing especially wrong with the south" will be ipso facto be declared irrelevant.

[rudy23]

49. I don't think there's not much wrong with the South, I just think the North has the same problems

in their rural areas, too.

My point is this--there are moderates in the South who are ready to start leaning Democrat. This brand of condescension and stereotyping is a huge part of what drives them away. I don't blame them--after the way you've addressed me on here, even I almost want to just vote the opposite way you want me to.

I don't see any difference between South bashing, racism, sexism, or homophobia. Some of us live here for other reasons than politics, like family, or being close to nature.

[BlooInBloo]

52. People who knowlingly vote for what they know to be wrong simply because....

... they don't like how this-or-that private citizen speaks to them (or looks "funny" at his pristine daughter, or...) deserve all the derision they get.

And if such people are more concentrated in the south than in any other geographic region, so much the worse for that geographic region. And if there are historical reasons behind the who shebang, then doubly so.

[rudy23]

56. We hear from people like you everyday. It adds up. It's not just this or that person.

You're reinforcing the idea that Democrats think Southerners are inferior by nature.

Do you apply those same generalizations to African Americans? Women? Because people use the same arguments you are using to justify your judgement of a large group of citizens, to judge those groups of citizens.

[BlooInBloo]

57. The "by nature" bit is all your own nightmare, tiger.

[rudy23]

59. Some people live in places for other reasons that cultural and political

I'm not going to let a bunch of ignoramuses tear me away from my family and friends down here.

And again, many people who make the same sweeping generalizations about women and African Americans will try to shield their prejudice with statements like that. "It's not their nature, it's just a problem in the culture".

Anything to make your world a series of 1's and 0's.

We could have been ruling the country for the last 8 years, if 700 fewer Floridian moderate voters hadn't believed that Democrats saw them as inferior.

[Name removed]

62. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rudy23]

64. Have fun antagonizing an entire region just because they're 60% Repuke instead of 40%

Thanks for showing everyone exactly what I mean. If you can put off Democrats like me, imagine how moderates feel when they hear this kind of stuff every day.

[BlooInBloo]

69. (shrug) When they feel the urge to fix their landslide-majority, rather than blame me....

... I'll be the first to offer my assistance. Until then, they can rest secure, knowing that we simply don't need them.

[GeorgeGist]

54. It is a tangled web ...

those red streaks weave. Is the cackling head in Idaho?

[Tigress DEM]

78. We need to add purple to our flag!

Still a lot more 100% reThug than I think is accurate, considering Ohio was rigged.

[loser_user]

43. Comparing the two maps isn't really fair

At least for New Mexico it isn't...

[BlooInBloo]

47. (shrug) Sometimes the truth is like that.

[Tigress DEM]

80. Except that, election results that include fraud don't paint a true picture.

However, you do make a good point about how these areas that were open to slavery have still maintained enough people with enough motivation to steal elections to create the fraudulent results.

It's just not an accurate reflection of how people really feel and vote if their votes were miscounted.

[rudy23]

26. I promise that bashing Red State-ers costs us at least 10 times the # of votes than Nader ever did.

If for no other reason, lay off the South bashing for strategic purposes.

You know, the South is home to some of our most beautiful natural scenery in the country. Some of us want to live near it, and don't let the more conservative culture stand in our way.

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rudy23]

50. That votes Democrat? Okay, fine. Lose those people. Stay in the minority for the next 8 years.

Nobody's asking you to kiss ass, just stop doing the opposite.

You're no better than a racist in my book, if you judge me for the state I live in. People live in places for other reasons than politics.

[Kingshakabobo]

81. "That votes Democrat"......we say "Democratic" in these here parts, pardner. n/t

[rudy23]

108. "Vote Democrat" is not the perjorative term--"Democratic" isn't always correct, pardner

Why be condescending and prove my point in such a crystal clear way? People say "vote Democrat" all the time.

"Democratic" isn't always the correct term. Saying "vote Democratic" sounds redundant--aren't most votes "Democratic" in a Democracy?

[Tigress DEM]

82. No one ASKED for ass kissing, just less name calling.

The person you dis because they come from a red state could be slaving for the DEM cause and facing heat from both sides.

It's cool to stand up for what's right and a lot of what the South stood for wasn't right. But things are changing and we are in a position to walk the walk as DEMs by being open minded and judging people by what they DO not where they happen to live.

You'd never blame an innocent gay man for the beating death of another gay just because he lived in the same city. It would be your last thought. Even if they were romantically involved, you'd want to see proof before rushing to judgment. Your first thought would be hate crime and reasonable suspects.

Even during MLK's time there were people in the South who stood up against injustice. You think those people had no children? You think that desegregating the schools didn't produce ANY changes, bring forth ANY new balance in community's thought patterns?

Why would you lump everybody in the South into the same category for the sake of maintaining self righteous slurs?

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

29. the problem isn't only with Northerners bashing Southerners

I live in Arkansas, and have been told by locals that they would never vote for a Yankee, no matter what their platform was. I think this is one of the reasons Bush tries to hide his New England roots and come across as a cowboy, complete with fake accent.

[RaleighNCDUer]

36. THANK YOU!

Why is it that the problem lies with blue-state/northern/Democrats who are, by their personal choices and inclinations, tolerant, accepting and open to change, and NOT with the red-state/southern/Republicans who are, by their personal choices and inclinations, conservative, intolerant, and resistant to any trend toward progress?

We all know that there are progressives and Democrats in the red states. We also know, just by looking at the maps and watching voting patterns, that the intolerant, conservative, racist, homophobic and republican demographics predominate in the South.

Why is that hard to understand?

The south is a different country. I can honestly believe that for many, flying the confederate battle flag is 'heritage, not hate' because even as they post here about their Democratic values and ideals, if the civil war broke out again they'd be on the front lines if any damn yankee set foot in Georgia (example only), by gawd! Southern patriotism takes precedence over the realities. And the republican strategy has been to exploit and exacerbate that, ever since Nixon.

The reflexive defense of the south is much like the "we're being picked on" Christians - not surprisingly, they come from the same demographic.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

41. Not just Southern Republicans

I was talking to a Democratic Committee chair in 2004 who told a group of new political activists that his Committee would not support the nominee, Kerry, because he was a Yankee. We took out ads for Kerry and basically did the work of the Democratic Committee that they refused to do. And yes, our group was made of "newcomers" not "natives". We were made to feel very uncomfortable and unwelcome to try and challenge the local power structure.

[DawgHouse]

94. That is so weird. I lived there 34 years and never heard

anyone say the word "yankee" unless they were making a yankee pot roast or something.

[AndyTiedye]

42. Are There Any Red States Left?

Seems to me that most of the formerly red states have turned blue, if recent opinion polls are accurate.

[GreenPartyVoter]

45. Yep. We're a nation of purples.

[SIMPLYB1980]

53. Thank you.

:yourock:

[brentspeak]

75. You're welcome.

:)

[lumberjack_jeff]

55. Has anyone read "Whistling Past Dixie"? nt

[rudy23]

58. Don't you think that author alone costs us more votes than the 700 Gore needed to win in 00?

Even if the arguments in the book are sound, the title and premise are so insulting.

[lumberjack_jeff]

90. Making clear the differences between Republicans and Democrats

Will earn more votes in the midwest than pandering does in Alabama.

[Name removed]

66. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tigress DEM]

71. Southerners marched with MLK, so don't lump allies in with the yahoos with slurs against the South.

If you have DEMs hanging on in the South dealing with the shit you described on a daily basis and probably with more fury if the yahoos know you and expect you to be with "them" because you're from here.. people who may have had the shit kicked out of them for having a "Yankee" attitude because they couldn't just get on a plane and ride away.

You have good solid DEMs who just want it to be acknowledged there IS A DIFFERENCE between a DEM who stands up for civil liberties and some yahoos in a bar trying to bring back slavery.

HOW DIFFICULT IS IT TO QUIT over generalizing? Do you not know how? IS it beyond your brain chemistry?

I doubt it. I'm sure you could if you wanted to, but like a mirror image of the yahoos in the bar you would rather cling to your resentment of the whole South in tact rather than have to give up your position of superiority where you can look down your nose at a whole group of people.

[Name removed]

72. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[brentspeak]

73. That's funny, I don't see much "victim complex" talk on the part of southern DUers here

Nor do I see any "The South will rise again!" rhetoric. I also don't see any "Southern racist apologists" on the boards.

Also, if you noticed, I, the OP, am not a southerner: I'm a northerner. Do I have any of this "resentiment"?

[alcibiades_mystery]

79. You don't see a massive imbalance of

"stop Southern bashing" threads to actual "Southern bashing" threads? You must be fucking blind. There are ten "stop Southern bashing!" posts for every southern bashing one, as far as I can tell. But maybe I'm wrong, since I do not fucking care about the South, and do not consider it a particularly useful or important social category.

Whether you have any ressentiment is another thing. I'm commenting on the endless victim complex that is an obvious social fact.

[rudy23]

83. Well, Nietzsche Wannabe, it started with the post where the Vermonter gave it to N.O. over Vitter

with the most condescending diatribes about Red Staters. This was pointed at a NEW ORLEANS paper (one of the bluest cities in America)

It got 16 recs within minutes, and a lot of "good one"'s. Not only bigoted, but ignorant, too.

Notice that no Democrats are really doing anything for New Orleans? I wonder why?

[Name removed]

88. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rudy23]

89. Hear that Southerners? Vote for the people who want you to kill yourselves!

Do you really think responding to these kinds of statements we hear day in and day out amounts to "victimhood"?

Besides, my main concern is that it's costing us votes. To hell with feelings. I think it's hurting the Katrina rebuilding effort, too, but what do I know.

[brentspeak]

97. The OP's post is pretty stupid, I agree, but even he wasn't saying that

Democratic politicians "want (southerners) to kill themselves". I'm not sure how you got that from his stupid comment regarding Faulkner's character.

[rudy23]

98. The guy above me had his post deleted

My response would make more sense in that context.

[alcibiades_mystery]

100. Brent clearly read the deleted post

Just sayin'...

[DemGa]

87. Great post, lol, and thanks for pointing this out

The south also gets a bad rap for that "drawl" thing but the "thickest" accents are found in the poorest sections of anywhere in the country, not just the south.

[goodgd_yall]

95. What's the point? The majority of Jerseyites are democrats.

That's what matters.:shrug:

I see lots of Hummers, */Chainy stickers, yellow ribbons, etc here in California, and it has its Red pockets, but overall its Blue. I have a friend who lived in a red state---NV---and it was hell for her. Now she's in NM and it is sooo much better.

[autorank]

99. Hey your timing is terrific. Just out of nowhere this comes into your mind.

What a foolish post based on an "Every now and then..." Well when was it that provoked this
missive.

I live in a red state. I think that the Republican party in my red state is dreadful. I do not
think people who voted for Republicans are somehow bad. I think they need an education, which is
hard to get in any part of this country given the media lock down.

This post, the timing and the content, make no sense.

[rudy23]

109. It was the post on the Greatest page where the arrogant Blue Stater got pats on the back for socking

it to New Orleans for voting in David Vitter.

Just like San Francisco is a Republican city for voting in Arnold Schwartzenegger.

[LittleClarkie]

101. Are you talking about your fellow posters on DU

are those the people you're calling idiots and morans?

[Iris]

103. I think he's standing up for those of us who live in red states who are frequently

berated by fellow DUers.

[LittleClarkie]

104. He probably shouldn't have called them idiots and morons though

if that's the case. He could have made his point without getting insulting.

[Iris]

105. That's a lot less offensive than people suggesting some of us leave our homes.

Honestly, "idiots" and "morons" are just words that are overused. How about someone suggesting you leave your family, including in-laws in their 80s - or just accept being lumped in with all the red state freaks you come here to get a break from?

[rudy23]

110. Thank you. Sometimes I feel like Southerners are the only acceptable prejudice for some Democrats

so all the latent ones are displaced onto us. Same arguments the racists make...same exact arguments--mostly of the "well, am I wrong? Stereotypes are there for a reason.", etc.

[Iris]

112. but jeez - do you really have to be from the South just to "get it"?

This one is mind-boggling to me. I mean if we met the stereotypes that we hear, why would we even be on a board like this?

[Iris]

102. damn! I live in Georgia and I've NEVER seen a "Rush is Right" bumper sticker!

I'm not joking!

[otherlander]

107. Sectionalism...

This shit is so 19th century...