The problem with Cindy

[G_j]

is that there are too few Americans willing to hold vigil, risk arrest etc. in opposition to this war, as she has done.

not enough loud squeaking wheels, not enough civil disobedience,
not enough serious resistance,
not enough people who remember how MLK risked life and limb to change things,

If there weren't so many chickens out there, this one person would not
be such a lightening rod.


I say this because I was involved in the Anti-war movement during the Vietnam war. I was there.
IMO. there are far too few Americans willing to REALLY challenge this war when it may cause them personal discomfort. If people really wanted to stop this war they would not be sitting around pissing and moaning about one person.

[WCGreen]

1. Cindy is a reminder, subtle be that it may, that they have no real

stake in the matter...

And that is different from the Civil Rights and Vietnam protests and marches...

All the people who followed MLK and other civil rights leaders had a huge personal stake in the outcome...

They wanted to be first class citizens...

In the war, people of an age were actually facing the prospect of having to pick up a gun and go to vietnam...

Cindy lost her son...

It makes people uncomfortable that she lost her son and won't mourn quietly, like all the other mothers who have lost their sons...

And all the other mothers who don't have their children at risk may feel an unconscious twinge of guilt...

Every time she speaks out she reminds the people that there is a real war going on not just the TV show that plays a little episode each night on the news...

Perhaps that is why Cindy is not taken seriously...

Because it would make people really have to think about what they let happen...

[G_j]

4. yes

Though I loved him, I thought Abbie Hoffman could be a bit of a bigmouth who sometimes put his foot in it. Yet, he was a vital part of a powerful, in your face people's resistance. The bottom line is that we put both feet in the water and "kept our eyes on the prize".
The war machine does not shut down willingly.

[H2O Man]

6. Right.

Abbie could be outrageous. He understood the value of a 30-second spot on the news. He was involved in a type of street theater that could seemed silly, foolish, hilarious, and risky -- often all at once.

There were also hundreds of demonstrations, some with "stars," and others with ordinary citizens, which were exercises of the Amendment #1 right to peacefully organize and lobby elected officials. And that is needed today, exactly as you point out.

[papau]

93. Yes - and no to the idea that only those that have a "stake" care - I was there in 63 as we started

the anti-Vietnam protests -drawing a dozen protesters in a city of 500,000 (Boston) that was as liberal as they come.

There were few protesting period - whether they had a stake or not - and that was also true, although not to nearly the same extent - of civil rights protests in the very early years.

But those civil rights protests were also an example, if in a different way, about "having a stake" having less meaning - or a wider definition - than might be thought at first glance. Those cars and buses to DC and the South from Boston for the Marches were full of folks that were not black - but who spent the summer protesting.

I did not ever meet Abbie Hoffman (I was lucky to have attended Malcom's Harvard speech - but I met few other "names") but it was the reasonableness of the requests - and the constant in your face requests - - and our eventual large numbers - that got things accomplished.

Cindy has the in your face down pat - and ending the war is certainly reasonable - so Cindy is extremely valuable to the cause of ending the war - but the Pelosi tactics question and attacking her personally is not something I'm about to get behind.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

41. YUP!!! Cindy was never the problem,...our society IS THE PROBLEM.

Our society is too easily manipulated by keywords like "freedom", "safety", "terror", "democracy", etc.

[Swamp Rat]

90. Too bad she isn't taken seriously by some.

Cindy has tirelessly warned mothers about what could happen to their children if they enlist in Bushler's war. I hope they listen.

[mopinko]

2. go watch this video, people.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x38640

remember what it took to end vietnam.

[proud2BlibKansan]

17. Wow what a great video!

Love it - brings back many many memories.

[mopinko]

19. idnit great?

i had to watch it 3 times.

[leftchick]

3. it takes a lot of courage to bare your soul for a cause

And courage is something sorely lacking in congress these days. She was pretty much supported here until she called the congressional democrats out for their failures. That is a big no no to the "Dems Do or Die" crowd. :eyes:


k&r G j

:hi:

[G_j]

8. why should someone whose son or daughter is in Iraq

settle for some promise of ending the war at some expedient time in the future, AFTER the 'Dems win the presidency'?
For God's sake, every single day people are being killed and horribly maimed. It must stop!

The time is now NOW, not tomorrow!


:hi: leftchick

[uppityperson]

5. Thank you for posting this. 11 recs and 3 replies

to a post talking about Cindy putting herself out there because others aren't. I have recommended and not posted many times, but just noticing the irony.

[Squatch]

7. The problem with Cindy is that she comes across as a shrill

opportunistic moonbat rather than the solemn galvanizing monolith that MLK was.

[leftchick]

9. she comes across as REAL to anti-war activists

as opposed to the mouthpieces in DC.

[Virginia Dare]

20. I guess you speak for all antiwar activists?...n/t

[leftchick]

34. interesting

you seem to imply there are antiwar activists that dislike Cindy. Care to name a few?

[conscious evolution]

35. Leftchick,like Cindy,speaks for me. nt

[Vidar]

36. Me as well.

[DancingBear]

46. And Bear makes three n/t

[guruoo]

78. But anti-war activists aren't the ones whose minds need changing n/t

[MadHound]

12. Perhaps that is in the eye of the beholder

Frankly I view her as a committed anti-war activist who is willing to lay it all on the line for the cause, and who isn't afraid to speak truth to power, no matter who, or what party that power may be.

I think that the major problem is that Cindy is holding all those who are responsible accountable, whether they're Dem or 'Pug. It was fine to hold the 'Pugs to the fire when that was all she was doing, but now that Cindy is also calling the Dems on their gross inaction, or even enabling of the war, all the sudden Cindy is demonized. Rather uncomfortable for many people around here I imagine, being against the war, but can't support the anti-war movement's biggest spokesperson all because she *gasp* speaks the truth about their party.

Frankly I remember there was little if any of this political soul searching during Vietnam. The anti-war movement was a broad based coalition that swept in everybody from moderate Republicans to Catholic priests to college students to Socialists. People didn't prioritize who or what group they would follow based on politics. The one overarching goal then was to stop the war in Vietnam, and politics took a back seat if you were pitching in. Now apparently you can't be against the war, can't get people to rally around you unless you are of the "right" political party or whatever. So much for speaking truth to power.

[G_j]

69. politics took a back seat

That is why the movement was so effective.
The goal was uncompromising and crystal clear.

[The Wizard]

79. There was a draft

and every swinging dick who didn't have money and connections was subject to it. It swept millions of the boomer generation off the streets and shipped us off to a foreign war with no chance of military or political success. We invaded, we occupied, we were eventually driven out. Never underestimate people defending their homeland. Too bad the neocons (America's enemies) didn't go to Vietnam. Every time I see that grinning idiot Bill Kristol I want to punch in his fucking face.
Fortunately for Kristol and his ilk, the body won't allow the mind to express its rage.

[DeeDeeNY]

94. Exactly

If there was a draft now, there would be plenty of protest and Cindy would not be the only one out there.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Le Taz Hot]

40. Why is it that anytime a woman

speaks out passionately about an issue she is "shrill?" Why is that? :mad:

[uppityperson]

48. That is in the eye of the beholder, is a subjective thing.

[sallyseven]

103. Yes you are right. Who advises her.

I met her in my Reps office in January and she seemed lovely but a bit unrealistic. Her son is dead and I cannot imagine if my son were killed what I would do. Running against Pelosi is not an answer. She needs to focus on the enemy the republicans. Run against a republican.

[Vidar]

10. Cindy has more courage & integrity than the entire zoo of congresscritters.

[ComerPerro]

39. she also has the luxury of not having to face election every two years

[Tom Joad]

11. the problem is that some people are more dedicated to a Party than to

ideals. A political party is at best just a tool to create what we need. What we need is an end to this war and an end to the whole idea of spreading american empire. So when faithfulness to the democratic party becomes destructive of those ends we must seek new tools, like the ones you mentioned. a mass movement that goes beyond just blind obedience to a party. When party obedience goes beyond merely using parties to achieve social justice and peace then they become idols.

We will not be content with a mere draw down of troops in iraq, with some kept there indefinitely as PROMISED/threatened by McCain/giulliuni/Hillary, and most other presidential candidates.

We do not want the US to Win in Iraq
Wars of aggression are not to be won. We must announce the DEFEAT of the US military in Iraq, and celebrate with the world that defeat.
We will NOT be getting oil wealth from Iraq, but paying reparations for decades.

The US must now tell the world we will try the criminal class that led us into this war or we will turn them over for international courts to try.

We will NOT threaten Iran with war, but will work with all nations for a real nuclear-free middle east, including Israel. We will demand real steps to rid the whole earth of nuclear weapons.

[leftchick]

14. GREAT Post!

:applause:

:yourock:

[LWolf]

22. If I could recommend this post, I would.

:applause:

[mzmolly]

25. I'm a Democrat because of my ideals.

Peace

[Tom Joad]

29. right, that does not go against what i was saying

as long as people use the party to work towards just ends.

but we can't let the party use us just to increase market share, or just to stay in power for the sake of power... or for the sake of the powerful.

[mzmolly]

32. True, but we can't use the party if we abandon it

either.

Peace - out for the day Tom. :hi:

[proud2BlibKansan]

83. I am too but my ideals are the reason I speak out about my party

when my party betrays my ideals.

[Vidar]

37. Sing it loud, Tom! Blind loyalty is the surest road to hell.

[Lasher]

98. Thanks for the warning about blind loyalty.

I will try to be vigilant.

[JANdad]

53. The US Military has not been DEFEATED!

the bullshit policy has...please get this right or the ones that died for a lie will most surely have died in vain if left to the likes of you.

As with Vet Nam, we won virtually all the battles, but "lost" the war. If we are to take this idea of Defeat and Victory to their obvious conclusions, then Defeat would mean the end of the US as we know it...whereas a Victory in Iraq could only be brought about by the complete and utter destruction of Iraq's populace...a scenario of biblical proportions which you know full well we are capable of.

So please save me your rhetoric and US Military hating bullshit and place your anger where it belongs...squarley at the feet of the PNAC folks!

[Tom Joad]

54. I do mean that the american imperialism has been defeated, and must be defeated.

It's the whole military/industrial/imperialist elite that must be defeated.
not soldiers on the field, but the bastards that send them out to bullshit wars.

[JANdad]

56. Ok...thanks for the clarification!

I'm with you on the Military Industrial complex...seems a past president warned us about that one...oh well...

[creeksneakers2]

61. You will never build a mass movement out of Cindy backers

The things that unify Cindy backers is that they make impossible demands, refuse to compromise, and if there is a difference of opinion they lead revolts against the leaders. How can you build an organization out of people like that? If you ask them to cooperate toward the greater good they'll accuse you of demanding blind obedience. Forming a Cindy group would be like forming a non-conformists' symphony, or starting a Tropical Outdoor Hockey league.

"I have also tried to work within a peace movement that often puts personal egos above peace and human life. This group wont work with that group; he wont attend an event if she is going to be there; and why does Cindy Sheehan get all the attention anyway? It is hard to work for peace when the very movement that is named after it has so many divisions." - Cindy Sheehan's resignation letter.

[nolabels]

66. You fight a war, but there is no such thing as winning a war

That is lesson that takes some a life time to learn. The war is the next battle and the battle after that, that warrior never leaves once he gets inside of you, or have you not seen :shrug:

[proud2BlibKansan]

82. You speak for me!!

Great post.

[5X]

92. Your post gives me some hope for DU.

Sometimes you gotta wonder about this place.

[liberalsoldier5]

100. I respectfully but STRONGLY disagree

with the "WE" in "We do not want the US to Win Iraq". I know A LOT of Democrats, like myself, who are depressed that things are going bad for our soldiers in Iraq and would have loved for this thing to have actually to worked out, meaning a free democracy for the people who used to live under Saddam (I don't see how that could possibly make liberals, like myself, angry).

Did I support going to war in Iraq in 2003? No, not really. Would I have prefered we stayed in Afghanistan? Absolutely. I am currently opposed to the Iraq War because it is an incompotent war that is costing our soldier's lives and not as important as other battles are in this war on terrorism.

Am I glad Saddam was taken down? You bet (no more woodchippers!); was I excited when we killed Zarqawi? Hell yes!; Am I GLAD like you are that the US is "losing" the post-war situation? No.

I'm with my senator on this one: The US military has succeeded in Iraq, it's the Iraqi government that's losing. With that said, I will never "celebrate with the world" a US defeat.

I also disagree with you on the other stuff ('reparations,' int. courts, Iran), and I know MANY Democrats who do as well. Remember, this is Democratic UNDERGROUND, and certainly not representative of the entire party of FDR, JFK, and Clinton. That said, I respectfully suggest you lose the "we" in statements like those because they definitely don't include "me."

(And as for Cindy, she's a nutjob and a liabilty to our party and our movement. GO PELOSI!)

[proud2BlibKansan]

15. I am ready to start banging pots and pans

and Cindy gives me the courage to do that.

Thanks for the inciteful remarks! :)

[Tom Joad]

31. This country should sound like Chile as it sought to rid itself of the Pinochet regime.

[BuyingThyme]

16. kcik

[paulk]

18. the problem with Cindy

is that she lashes out in all directions, often striking those on her own side.

[mzmolly]

21. Cindy can do all of the above as a Democrat.

And, I wish she would.

Indeed we are a consumer driven society that doesn't care much about the war. Melissa Etheridge stated this beautifully just days ago, it's sad.

[EFerrari]

23. Let's court her. That would be a win-win situation, right? n/t

[mzmolly]

26. I love it!

:toast: Let's!

[ClassWarrior]

71. Oh, there you go again being sensible!!

B-)

NGU.

[Phredicles]

33. That's where I am too.

A primary challenge to Pelosi would be a great way to keep her honest. I have a lot of respect for Ms. Sheehan but I wish she'd reconsider the way she's going about making this challenge.

[The Wizard]

81. Rather than creating a split

in the ranks that want and end to the war and Republican insanity, Cindy could run in a Democratic primary and force a discussion and policy change. We all have a similar objective. How to best get there is the real trick. I don't always agree with my Congressman, but he's good at playing the system to get what his constituents want and need. Getting the Devil to punch himself in the face is more effective than hitting him yourself. It eliminates much of the controversy surrounding a direct confrontation, albeit there are those occasions when a direct confrontation becomes the only method.

[Vilis Veritas]

102. Why does the party have to own her?

Why does she who represents PEACE have to be OWNED by anybody?

Why can't we unite for PEACE?

Why?

In the sixties, I did not join a party. I joined the PEACE MOVEMENT.

I asked a rhetorical question and now I will proceed to answer. She needs be owned because that breaks the chance of PEACE acting as a uniting element across the country. If PEACE is owned by and associated to only one PARTY, then there will be no concensus, EVER.

The consensus that happened in the SIXTIES was what made that movement so successful. The fact that PEACE crossed all lines - that LOVE conquered all, stopped the war.

Peace.

[EFerrari]

24. Toss in, a co-pted media that doesn't report the vigils, the protests,

the real numbers. So, most people get a skewed impression of what their community, their fellows think and do. That is another difference between 2007 and 1968.

/oops

[knight_of_the_star]

28. Tell me about it

That is the most demoralizing part about it that you make all the effort, you show up, you march, you chant, you shout and yet the only place it gets reported is in the blogs and not in the press even though you can see the damn cameras there. It almost feels like they let us do it so we can blow off steam or something.

[EFerrari]

30. Take heart. The corporate media is losing consumers every day.

They will have to change their strategy or go out of business. And, soon.

[democrank]

27. I participated in the Vietnam War protests.

Out on the streets month after month after month, no matter what. Today, far too many people seem to think protesting the Iraq War means voting to bring the troops home in a CNN poll.

[Decruiter]

38. Thank you DU and thank you Cindy for standing up for our Democracy.

IMHO, Cindy did nothing wrong here, she has given Ms. Pelosi two weeks to put IMPEACHMENT ON THE TABLE, or else. Pretty plain and simple to me. If our elected representatives will not represent us, what choices do they leave us with? I support Cindy this time.

And we will always support DU. DU is the best of the best most of the time.

[wiley]

42. The same is true with health care, civil rights, economic inequality, etc.

The way to prevent Americans from doing anything is to cut federal and state programs, and minimize the resources they have access to. The radical conservative right elitists make people think their little piece of health care or job security or education or self is the most they deserve. Cut off all access to television, cell phones and alcohol (or recreational drugs) and suddenly you would find that many people would care about the tragedy that has become of the US. Americans have been backed into corners where they are forced to fend for their own, which has exacerbated racial, social and sexual tensions. They rage like starving animals to ensure Paris Hilton gets jailed, yet say almost nothing when politicians commit treason and lie and commit crimes and get no punishment whatsoever for it.

[NoPasaran]

43. The problem with Cindy is she's bonkers

And she's surrounded by people who cheer her self-destructive behavior.

[Karenina]

45. What a DUMBASSED post.

:eyes:

[leftchick]

47. to say the least

:eyes:

[conscious evolution]

65. One of many on DU lately. nt

[uppityperson]

49. huh, I would say takes one to know one but that wouldn't be accurate.

[creeksneakers2]

62. Fantastic post! n/t

[leftchick]

44. The problem with Cindy is

too many people can not handle the truth. Including the bums in congress.

[assclown_bush]

60. And quite a number of DU'ers as well. n/t

[MrSlayer]

50. There's no draft.

That's why no one cares enough to get up and do anything. No one is being forced into the meat grinder against their will like back in the Nam days. If there wasn't a draft back then there wouldn't have been the mass scale protests and Woodstock and all that went down. If you don't have to sacrifice your life or your kids or your spouse it's much easier to ignore the whole thing or even be in favor of it. Things look a lot different when you and yours are staring down the barrel of the gun.

[RestoreGore]

51. Would she have done that had her son not gone to Iraq?

Just wondering, because I don't recall seeing her anywhere near any protests when hundreds of thousands of people all over this world were protesting to keep this war from starting. Or has that been forgotten?

[independentpiney]

55. I can't believe you haven't gotten attacked for pointing that out yet.

I guess everybody's tiring of these threads.

[RestoreGore]

59. Or there is nothing to attack because it is truth

Not meant as a slight to her, just pointing out that if she were truly against this war she should have been front and center then. I was speaking out as were many others, so I actually take offense to threads like this that try to paint one person as a saint while telling the rest of us we aren't doing anything when we are. And to be honest, I'm tiring of them too. Just wanted to express that point.

[G_j]

63. I was an organizer in the pre-war protests

the purpose of my post was not to elevate one person as a saint, but partially to ask why there aren't more people willing to take the risks of civil disobedience. Or what if a few million people refused to pay their taxes? This war is not going to end without a resistance even greater than during the Vietnam war, because this time the media has embraced a policy of deliberately censoring us.

[RestoreGore]

84. Which is why I asked where Ms,Sheehan was in those pre war protests. Can you answer that question?

[proud2BlibKansan]

85. She was speaking out and has been part of the anti-war movement since before the war began

As have many of us. But who was she before her son died? Just another American angry about the war. Like many of us.

Now kindly post links that prove YOU were speaking out. . .

Hopefully you get the point.

You expressed your point alright. And your post is one of the more ridiculous in the bash Cindy threads.

[RestoreGore]

88. Attacking me won't help your cause

But it seems to be the only thing you know.

[proud2BlibKansan]

106. Then let me rephrase

You are wrong. Cindy has been speaking out against the war since before it began.

[snappyturtle]

52. True. n/t K&R

[Madspirit]

57. k&r...n/t

[Raine]

58. Some people have

sick elderly parents and sick kids that they have to take care of plus they may be in bad health themselves it's not always just "personal discomfort".

[shimmergal]

64. Thanks, Raine.

Some of us aren't physically capable of marching in protests.

Not to mention, if they get little publicity and the regime in power doesn't care how many people protest, what good does it do? Legislative moves, even if they don't involve impeachment, at least get covered in the media. I'd say a letter to a Congresscritter is worth at least as much as participation in an anti-war rally.

In the past -- the 30s, the 60s -- the real power of marches and rallies was that the ruling powers feared they'd turn into revolts if ignored. This regime doesn't care: if protestors get too inconvenient, they're not above just mowing them down wholesale. We need to ask ourselves what do they truly fear?

A well-planned coup against them, I imagine, for one thing. Is there anybody on the anti-War left who's even capable of thinking about this possibility, if worse comes to worst?

[G_j]

67. what if millions of people staged a tax revolt?

what if thousands sat down in front of the WH and got arrested?
What if there was a national strike?

[RestoreGore]

87. See, the problem is us WORKING POOR with children need to SURVIVE

It isn't as easy and romantic as you make it out to be for everyone. So I choose to write letters, call Congress, call my representatives, talk to people to awaken them, and teach my child the truth. Does that mean I don't have GUTS? Because I won't start an "organization" to ask people to send me money so I can got to Washington DC to chain myself to a fence? Who are you or anyone to define what courage is to any individual? What did you do after the 2000 election was STOLEN? Was Cindy Sheehan standing at a protest then after having voted for Bush? Well, I WAS out there, and THAT WAS THE TIME when Americans SHOULD have been out there. Once we all let that go, our fate was sealed.

[G_j]

91. please understand

I said there were too many unwilling to risk personal comfort. I didn't say everybody was. That obviously doesn't apply to you, so please don't take offense. :-)

[proud2BlibKansan]

86. Is it too much to ask you to make a 2 minute phone call to your reps?

How hard can that be? You don't have to stand in the street to express your disapproval. But if all you do is type messages on a discussion board, you can't claim you are speaking out.

[RestoreGore]

89. So you are saying blogs are irrelevant?

Then why are you here?

[proud2BlibKansan]

107. You must be the change you want to see in the world

Blogging educates us. Contacting our congressional reps - who work FOR US - is the best way to see the change we want.

[Raine]

105. My response was to the poster who

wrote "there are too few Americans willing to hold vigil, risk arrest etc. in opposition to this war,
not enough loud squeaking wheels, not enough civil disobedience,
not enough serious resistance"

"2 minute phone calls" was not something I was referring to.

[defendandprotect]

68. With a draft, many young people aren't demonstrating -- nor families --

Also, we've let the militarization of our police enforcement go too far --
and the new attacks on free assembly go too far --

Fencing in demonstrators -- ???

Rubber bullets -- ???

Also, I think people may be tired of dragging themselves to Washington, DC and NYC --
We need to hit our home towns, local areas -- state capitols --
Go back to the 13 orginal states.

I don't get going to Washington, DC to demonstrate in front of empty buildings.

On the other hand, SOME TERRIFIC DEMONSTRATIONS BY PEOPLE RECENTLY IN HALLS OF CONGRESS!!!
*******************************************************************************************

We need some new ideas . . . . I think --
If you disagree, I'd be happy to hear it !!!

[Harper_is_Bush]

70. She has become a charicature.

[ClassWarrior]

72. No she hasn't. She's...

...just a human who makes mistakes. Go figure.

NGU.

[Harper_is_Bush]

73. yes...but still, she has become a caricature.

She needs to be aware of her value to the goals.

Challanging Pelosi without having visibly engaged her don't help things.

[ClassWarrior]

74. Do YOU become a caricature when you make a big, well-intentioned...

...but boneheaded mistake? Or only when other people demean you for it?

NGU.

[Cleita]

76. Cindy is a caricature, Cindy is batshit crazy, Cindy is blah, blah, blah.

If you are going to make statments like this then delineate the instances where she seems to be a caricature to you. Simply making accusations makes you seem shrill.

[ShaneGR]

75. So I'm supposed to put up with false insults?

I'm a member of the party who has started every war in the 20th century? (False). I'm a member of the party of slavery? Uh, what? I'm a member of the party that passed every single significant civil rights legislation of the 20th century. It's just ridiculous. I can't answer back at false criticism? I REALLY feel the pain she has at losing a son, but should I stand silent when someone just makes things up?

[ProudDad]

77. Ya' Scared me there

I thought this was going to be another Cindy hatefest...

She's not perfect. Big whoop.

I remember hearing her speak at the Green Festival when she started on this journey shortly after her son was killed. She sounded petrified up there on that stage but I was impressed with her courage and dedication to end that damned war. She's still not a public speaker, sometimes her prose isn't clear enough to defy mis-interpretation but she's still got courage and she's still dedicated to ending that damned war, and all wars.

I takes my allies where I can get them and she's one of them...She's taking the heat for a lot of us who haven't had and will never have the opportunity to get that much attention. There's a danger there, the media loves to build someone up in order to tear them down again. There's the danger of "fan" backlash.

But someone has to do it...


"If people really wanted to stop this war they would not be sitting around pissing and moaning about one person."

Or they'd all be filing papers to run against Nancy Pelosi!!!! Now that's something Abby Hoffman would have loved...

[EClark5483]

80. The real problem with Cindy is..

She, and many like her, are taking the fight to the wrong person. Or rather, the wrong group of people. The fight is not an easy fight by any means because of what is at stake in our nation... Money... not just money for the big wigs, but money 4 U and ME. I'm speaking of course, of the military-industrial complex. That is who the REAL enemy is in this whole game of war and liberation and quest for freedom and whatever bullshit spin you want to put on it. I actually don't blame the imperialistic Bush as much as I blame those who let the anti-Christ come into power (CONGRESS). Those who know history, know that Prophet Eisenhower (a respectable Republican if ever there was one) foretold over 40 years ago of the dangers of the military-industrial complex. If I have anything to say about Cindy that is positive, it would be that she at LEAST realizes that truth holds no party lines. The war is only going to end one way. People have to just say loud and clear... were not going to be the rats running the motor wheel that enables the war machine to function. But there is part of the problem. Too many lives depend on the job of keeping the war going. Cindy, and other anti war activists will get nowhere unless they crusade together with the rats and convince them to quit spinning the wheel. Good luck telling Americans in ALL 50 STATES to give up their job.

[bluedog]

95. she was on "morning joe" today

a phone..riding in a van...going to New Orleans......said she will run against Nancy if impeachment is not on the table by the 23rd of july.......waiting for the transcript..........she states the Democrats in congress ..gave bush the 1 billion dollars to continue to have our soldiers killed.(something to that effect).......didn't mention that the cons are not working to get the troops home safely.........so after the 23rd,I expect sheehan posts will be blocked......

[mmonk]

96. Yep. Cindy really isn't the problem.

[femrap]

97. K&R

You are SOOOOOOOOOOO right.

Thanks for speaking out.

[Vilis Veritas]

99. Peace unites us all.

In the sixties and early seventies, the Peace movement crossed all lines of party affiliation. That is because of the simple fact that PEACE does not belong to anyone or any party.

Peace is not a thing that can be held high above your head, while you say, nya, nya, nya and dance around protecting, YOUR PEACE.

Peace is knowing that LOVE unites us all.

Peace is knowing that happiness is the result of being LOVED.

Peace is knowing that LOVE truly CAN conquer ALL.

Peace is knowing that I will never do you harm (verbally, physically, or spritually), REGARDLESS of your BELIEFS.

Peace = Love.

Make Love, Not War. That simple mantra was the uniting element. There was music to support the mantra. There was music to unite us all.

Peace unites ALL PEOPLE.

Peace.

[losthills]

101. I'm glad Cindy is calling out Pelosi

on her lilly livered fence sitting strategy.

I used to love Nancy Pelosi, but it's time for her to step down as speaker and give the job to someone who has the courage to lead.

Cindy is not going to get elected to congress, but she is forcing Nancy to defend herself to the anti-war community and that's a good thing. That is real activism.

Some people can't handle Cindy because she's just an ordinary mom, but that's what gives here her power. That's why she is such a great example to other ordinary people, and that's why the right attacks and demonizes her so viciously...

[BonnieJW]

104. I was there too; however,

marching and protesting was the ONLY way we had back then. Did you know which phone numbers to call in Washington? Did you even know the name of your congressperson?

We have the power right at the tips of our fingers today via the Internet, via emailing our reps and getting groups together just like we are doing at this moment. I never went to a single protest in the 60's that reached as many people as DU. Every time people take to the streets now, it's marginalized. But if a senator or congressperson receives 100,000 emails letting them know how their constituents feel, it would be political suicide to ignore that. Why do you think those GOP senators are turning against Bush? Because the people in their state are marching? Nope, it's the emails and phone calls.