Today, I met a soldier, just back from Iraq

[Ian David]

I was with my daughter buying a milkshake, when a young man-- he couldn't have been older than 23-- approached me, pointed at the sign on the door of my car...



And he said, "Yes, that's right. I'm glad people get it this time, that it's not the troops' fault."

Standing there, holding his son's hand, he told me that he'd been in Iraq for over a year, and it's been getting worse and worse.

I let him know that only minutes ago, John McCain was standing on the floor of Congress, trying to say that things are getting better, the "surge" is working, and we should stay the course.

And that right now, Democrats were trying to pass a bill requiring that all troops get time at home at least equal to the amount of time they spend over-seas-- double-that for the Guard and Reserve.

I suggested that he go home, turn on C-SPAN, and phone-in to the discussion line when they start taking calls.

"We've all got to speak-out," I said.

"Well, being active duty and all, I'm limited to how much I can say," he told me.

And that's a shame.

He said he's glad that people "get it this time" and don't blame the troops.

I told him, "This time, everyone knows who to blame. We've all worked at jobs where the boss was an idiot, and we had no choice but to do what were told."

I gave him a couple ImpeachBush.org bumper stickers, and told him that I could never do what it is he's done.

He should be proud of his service no matter what.

The people fighting and dying over there-- the ones who signed-up to "protect our freedoms" have been railroaded into an endless, pointless, nightmare.

Not only do our troops believe they are unable to truly speak their minds, the Republickers add them to caging lists so we don't even count their votes.

We need to let our troops know that we here at home are fighting for THEIR freedom. They signed-up to protect ours. We all need to protect theirs.

Our job is much easier, but no less important.

Speak-up for them.
Bring them home.
And take care of them when they're back.

At least, put on a bumper sticker or two or...



... or fifty-three.

[merh]

1. thank you

:patriot:

[LisaM]

2. What are the options for conscientious objection?

I know someone who formally did this during Vietnam (of course, there was a draft then) but what about someone who is signed up now, but objects to the Iraq invasion?

[Ian David]

6. A conscientious objector has to object to ALL wars, not just this one.

That's my own, personal understanding of it.

You can read it here from Selective Service:

CONSCIENTIOUS OBJECTION AND ALTERNATIVE SERVICE
A conscientious objector is one who is opposed to serving in the armed forces and/or bearing arms on the grounds of moral or religious principles.

More:
http://www.sss.gov/FSconsobj.htm


And on Wikipedia:

A conscientious objector (CO) is an individual following the religious, moral or ethical dictates of his conscience that are incompatible with being a combatant in military service, or being part of the armed forces as a combatant organization. In the first case, conscientious objectors may be willing to accept non-combatant roles during conscription or military service. In the second case, the objection is to any role within armed forces and results in complete rejection of conscription or military service and, in some countries, assignment to an alternative civilian service as a substitute for conscription or military service. Some conscientious objectors may consider themselves either pacifist or antimilitarist. This is not to be confused with 'Persistent Objectors', which are nations whose persistent stance against a particular rule exempts them from that rule under customary international law.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscientious_objector

Any views expressed above are my own, and not on behalf of any other organization.

[LisaM]

8. That's actually very interesting

because in my humble opinion, there can be just reasons to fight, and unjust reasons to fight. I don't think it's right that our military would not allow its members to try and make that distinction.

[Ian David]

19. That's the law as it's written and enforced. Any changes might have to come from legal challenges.nt

[truedelphi]

9. There were over 8,000 GI's who stayed in Ireland

Rather than return to Iraq. (Last time I looked, some year or eighteen months ago)

You don't have to file for CO status - though it probably helps to know computer skills (Ireland currently has a techie economy.)

[jwirr]

11. CO is a touchy issue when you are already part of the military. For

one thing to qualify you need to be able to say that you do not believe in the use of violence or force in any situation. That is very hard to prove if you have been training in the military for any length of time. Back in the Vietnam era one of the questions you were asked was "If you or your family is threatened would you use violence as a defense?" So if someone is holding your child hostage at the point of a gun would you fight back?

I actually found myself in a situation like that and I did not fight back but not so much because I didn't want to but because it would have placed my child in further danger. Finally by talking, the situation just mellowed out and the gun toting lady backed down.

[Ian David]

13. Personally, I believe that if Bush is still pResident after January 20, 2009...

In that case, I do not think it would hurt to receive military combat training on the government's dime, whether you are an objector or not.

My own, personal opinion.

[jwirr]

15. I agree. Was only explaining how hard it is to get CO status.

[Ian David]

17. And it's not like you get to stay home and play Nintendo if you're a CO anyway.

In the event of a military draft, for example, many COs may be put into camps to support the war effort by working for Halliburton.

That's my own, personal opinion.


See also:

Treatment of the Conscientious Objector Under the Selective Service Act of 1940
John W. Masland
The American Political Science Review, Vol. 36, No. 4 (Aug., 1942), pp. 697-701
doi:10.2307/1949979
http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0003-0554(194208)36%3A4%3C697%3ATOTCOU%3E2.0.CO%3B2-2


Conscientious Objectors
A History of National Service in America, Peter Shapiro, Ed. (Center for Political Leadership and, Participation, 1994.)
"Conscientious Objectors" is excerpted with permission from A Call To Civic Service: National Service for Country and Community by Charles C. Moskos (The Free Press, 1988)
http://www.academy.umd.edu/publications/NationalService/conscientious_objectors.htm

The Catholic Peace Tradition - Google Books Result
by Ronald G. Musto - 2002 - Religion
Conscientious objectors faced the prospect of unpaid service in isolated work camps, doing forestry and other “labor in the national interest. ...
http://www.academy.umd.edu/publications/NationalService/conscientious_objectors.htm

[jwirr]

29. I had two friends who went to prison rather than go to war.

[Ian David]

16. My personal understanding is that a CO can experience a moment of conversion...

... a life-altering moment when they became a CO.

For example, maybe seeing a buddy die on the battlefield and suddenly deciding that war is bad and you no longer want any part in it.

However, deciding that THIS war is being run by an idiot intent on bringing on The Apocalypse, and you'd rather sit this one out and wait for a better war (or better Decider-in-Chief) does not a CO make.

That's my own, personal opinion on the matter.

[uppityperson]

26. You can't sign up for or even ask for CO status with selective service.

They won't let you do this until they start the draft.

[Posteritatis]

3. I Approve of that car. (nt)

[otohara]

4. Thanks For Sharing

we need more soldiers coming forward and refuting this nonsense from "Lieberbush" and others saying things are getting better.

[aquart]

5. Love the Coexist!

Not sure what the FSM with the eyes and legs is.

[Ian David]

7. That is Our Noodly Master, The Flying Spaghetti Monster.

[ceile]

10. OT-What is the "i" in Coexist?

I love that sticker!

[YOY]

12. A line with a pagan star for a dot

[Marrah_G]

14. I thought that car looked familiar!

Sure enough you live not to far away. I am pretty sure i've chased you down on the highway just to finish reading them all!

[Ian David]

20. Thanks! That's what I'm there for!

The other day, I spotted another car with a Carl Sheeler for Senate bumper sticker...



It's not very clear, but it's there on the silver car.

[babylonsister]

18. Ian, I LOVE you, your compassion, and your car!! Rec'd! nt

[Ian David]

21. Don't thank me. Thank the soldiers who are serving right now. And thank them by speaking out. Also..

here are some worthy causes:


http://www.iava.org/


http://www.operation-helmet.org/mission-complete.html



http://www.sldn.org/templates/index.html



Also:

Homes For Our Troops
Their mission is to build specially adapted homes for our severely disabled soldiers and their families. Since they started this organization, they have had an outpouring of support from all across America including monetary donations, donations of building materials and equipment, and fundraisers being hosted in their benefit.
http://www.homesforourtroops.org/

The Wounded Warrior Project
The "Wounded Warrior" project seeks to assist those men and women of our armed forces who have been severely injured during the conflicts in Iraq, Afghanistan, and elsewhere around the world. Many of the injuries are traumatic amputations, gunshot wounds, burns and blast injuries that will retire these brave warriors from military service. These wounded soldiers will return to civilian life minus one or more limbs, or with serious wounds or disfiguring scars, and will face greater challenges today obtaining assistance and finding opportunities that would enable them to provide for themselves and their families.
http://www.unitedspinal.org/pages.php?catid=211&pageid=575

Coalition to Salute America's Heroes
The Coalition to Salute America's Heroes is a non-profit, non-partisan 501(c)(3) organization, created to provide a meaningful way for individuals, corporations and others to help our severely wounded and disabled Operation Enduring Freedom and Operation Iraqi Freedom veterans and their families rebuild their lives.
http://www.saluteheroes.org/

Click here for more links to support the American soldiers and the people of Iraq.
http://www.michaelmoore.com/links/index.php?linkType=How%20to%20support%20the%20American%20soldiers%20and%20help%20the%20people%20of%20Iraq

[formercia]

22. Why the GOP cage the military vote:

Because the troops know the truth and will vote accordingly.

All overseas military votes should be sent by Registered Mail with signature required and a return receipt.

[Ian David]

24. The ballots were received alright but they were CHALLENGED and nullified

There was no question the ballots arrived to be tabulated.

What happened was the GOP just said, "Don't count these votes. They're frauds. I sent them a letter in the mail at this address, and it came back non-deliverable. So, just don't count those votes."

That explains why I got a Platinum Membership Card to the GOP in the mail-- they were trying to cage me!

If that letter had "bounced," they would have challenged my vote.

How many people here have posted things like, "Why the hell does The GOP keep sending me questionnaires and requests for money?"

Because they KNEW you were a Democrat, and were hoping the mail would come back to them marked non-deliverable.

[REACTIVATED IN CT]

23. I hope he rethinks his position on no calling in to CSPAN

I know that active duty can't speak out publicly - but calling in anonymously to a TV or radio discussion should not be a problem, should it ?

[bdamomma]

25. oh, that is great you spoke to this soldier, just to give him

peace of mind, I think we common folk are working harder to get these guys back than our own elected officials.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[alcibiades_mystery]

28. Huh?

What a bizarre thing to say.

[proud patriot]

30. Thank You for sharing this

Makes it all worth it , doesn't it ..

These exchanges in parking lots with Soldiers, and their family
members have kept me going these past 4 years .

:loveya: Thank You for speaking out :patriot:

[in_cog_ni_to]

31. HEY! We have matching cars!

except, mine is blue.:)

[Ian David]

33. Very Kewl! n/t

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

32. What saddens me most is,...we are ALL in a war waged against us,...

,...this administration has waged a war AGAINST our own well-being within a state of democratic resolution. This administration has no respect for either us or our democratic system. To the contrary, IT has waged war against both.

[Tulum_Moon]

34. Glad to see how much you do support

our troops.