I heard Sanjay Gupta apologized recently on CNN

[Halliburton]

blaming his producers for screwing up some of the numbers, but still took a shot at Moore. Did anyone else see this?

[htuttle]

1. Did he say something like, "It's not my fault -- John Stossel gave me all the information"

[senseandsensibility]

2. I did not hear an apology.

He admitted to one factual error in a grudging way.

[redqueen]

4. Did he say that? "Factual Error"?

How is that different from a LIE when the facts are so easy to find out?

UGH!

[senseandsensibility]

11. Yes, or I got one fact wrong

He definitely admitted that he was wrong about the figure he used for spending per person on healthcare in Cuba, and implied that it was a transcription error.

[knight_of_the_star]

3. That's not an apology

That sounds like a five year old saying, "I'm sorry" so they don't get whacked for putting firecrackers in their cat's butt.

[Katherine Brengle]

18. That's a DUzy right there!

lmao

[JDPriestly]

5. Sanjay should apologize personally to Michael Moore

They may disagree on some of the precise numbers, but obviously Sanjay cannot question that universal health insurance is essential in order to ensure that Americans live healthy lives. Any doctor that believes that a person who cannot pay for healthcare should be denied the healthcare should be denied the license to practice medicine.

I remember growing up in small town American where the doctor helped the poor because they needed help even though they could not pay. I also remember that professionals in small town American accepted pay in kind on occasion -- a chicken, some vegetables, what people could give. Professionals, doctors and ministers and teachers were considered to be a part of the community and to care about the community. What is wrong today?

[RaleighNCDUer]

6. What is wrong today?

Nixon, and Kaiser Permanente.

[wryter2000]

8. I work for Kaiser

Kaiser's not the problem. Kaiser is non-profit and doesn't pay obscene salaries to anyone.

The idea of a Health Maintenance Organization was perverted by the for-profits. They turned HMO into CC -- cash cow.

[RaleighNCDUer]

12. OK, explain the difference between a not-for -profit and a for-profit.

They both take the decisions out of the hands of the doctors and patients, and put them in the hands of the actuaries.

Have you seen Sicko?

[northzax]

19. every system does this, to some extent

single payer would do the same thing, you know. the only time decisions really remain 'in the hands of doctors and patients' is when you pay cash.

[wryter2000]

21. No, I haven't seen sicko yet

Doctors run our hospital, medical group, and health plan. I'm not saying the system is perfect, but we don't make a profit off people's health care, and we don't deny them treatment if it's medically necessary. (We don't cover experimental procedures, though.) A doctor will tell you these days that they'd rather be at Kaiser than out in the for-profit world.

If something isn't available through Kaiser, we'll send patients to non-Kaiser facilities to get it at Kaiser's expense.

A question...just a question because I haven't seen the movie...I know Kaiser was brought up as the beginning of HMOs. True. What incidents of neglect and abuse on Kaiser's part were brought up?

(I should admit that I'm in Northern California and can't really address Kaiser in other states.)

I should add that my husband died at Kaiser after two long hospitalizations. Nothing had to be approved. It cost me a total of $20, and the only paperwork I had to fill out was a consent for treatment. Yes, one 0. Other plans have bigger copays. Earlier, he had a psychiatric hospitalization at a non-Kaiser facility. Kaiser paid for everything, and again, no paperwork.

[wryter2000]

28. A bit more information about Kaiser

http://www.docguide.com/dg.nsf/PrintPrint/21B4E7EBC1B0D59F85256430007B5507

"Kaiser's screening regime is saving lives. In a 1994 subset of 32,000 adults screened by sigmoidoscopy, Dr. Selby noted 42 cases of early stage cancers which were cured with surgery. More significant, 684 advanced precancerous polyps were detected and removed by gastroenterologists with colonoscopy, preventing as many as 164 future cancers from developing in this screened group. This translates into 75 lives saved in this subgroup alone.

"From 1993-95, Kaiser Permanente invested $3 million dollars in start-up videosigmoidoscopy equipment for CoCaP. The program costs $5 million dollars per year to operate. "The up-front costs of this program are high but the value of prevention is well worth it to our patients and to us," said Palitz."

Our doctors voted whether or not to implement this screening system. They were told that it would eventually show a savings in treatment of colon cancer, but not for 10 years. In the meantime, it would cost a lot of money. They voted to do it, and now our members have lower rates of colon cancer than non-members. We're also doing strong preventive work with heart disorders, with similar success.

http://www.leftwatch.com/archives/years/2002/000019.html

The British Medical Journal concluded that, overall, Kaiser does a rather better job than the British system for providing access to health care. (You'll see at the bottom that one of the reasons is that we have fewer people hospitalized, which is expensive, so that may be mixed in that in some cases people would rather be the hospital than taking care of themselves at home.)

Kaiser invented the HMO, but it was perverted by for-profit insurance companies. As far as I'm concerned, insurance companies are some of the worst blood suckers in the universe.

BTW, I got the information about colon cancer from a PBS special called "The HMO with a heart" and the British Medical Journal study from hearing it on the radio. Kaiser catapaults its propaganda, but you also hear it in other places. :)

[Mojorabbit]

9. My husband still does this

Last week he took a box of garden tomatoes as payment for a visit. I have been dicing them and freezing them. He courts the pharm reps to get free samples for his patients with no insurance and makes house calls on some of his elderly patients who are homebound.
Still as a family practice doc he is low on the totem pole re income as far as docs go.

[JDPriestly]

24. He is a hero. You must be very proud.

This is great news. The poor in cities generally don't have the means to give in kind compensation. We do need universal access to healthcare. Your husband would be much better off if we did. I did not mean to disparage doctors. I intended to point out that, because conduct like you husband's is rare and maybe impractical in today's society for the most part, we need to fill the gap with a different system of making healthcare available.

[Mojorabbit]

27. He totally agrees

As I mentioned in another thread. He had a heart attack at age 44 8 years ago and had a stent put in. Otherwise he is healthy as a horse. His insurance company left the state and he has not been able to get insurance from anyone. If something happens to him we could lose everything. It is a big worry for us.
And on edit, I am very proud of him.

[Selatius]

15. We're simply less communal than before. We're more atomized than ever before.

When people don't know each other, when there is no sense of community, chickens and vegetables don't count for much as payment, but money still is still universally trusted and accepted.

[yardwork]

17. Lots of doctors still accept pay in kind - or no pay at all.

I've worked all my professional life with primary care physicians struggling to help the poor and uninsured. The physicians are not the problem, and neither are the hard-working people with jobs (sometimes multiple jobs) but still no health coverage.

The problem with our healthcare system is greed, but not greed on the part of those who provide care, or those who need it. Greed on the part of corporate CEOs and stockholders who just have to squeeze blood out of every penny. Greed on the part of elected officials who have good health coverage for life. Greed on the part of the self-righteous and sanctimonious who spread lies, like Sanjay Gupta.

[JHB]

7. Was it really an apology, or more of a "better cover my ass from that libel charge" thing...n/t

[shadowknows69]

10. Slander on the airwaves I think but BINGO!

[KharmaTrain]

13. Kyra Phillips: "Stay Tuned If You Can Stand It"

That babe needs to be sent back to Iraq. A right wing mouthpiece who doesn't have the sense to shut off the damn mike when she goes to the bathroom. Ah...CNN...the most trusted name in flushes. :rofl:

[LiberalFighter]

14. Since he joined CNN he hasn't practiced medicine?

Why is that? He couldn't make it or handle it in the medical field?

[Catherine Vincent]

23. Yesterday, Wolf mentioned that Gupta was in performing surgery that day.

Unless he was lying. :shrug:

[LiberalFighter]

25. Probably lying

[KAT119]

16. i Emailed CNN this AM re Gupta's FALSE FACTS & lack of sources etc.

Gupta is a shill for CNN Drug advertizers/big Pharma who want profit - greed screw the people status quo!!

Mentioned that CNN "News" as much an oxymoron as "Army Intelligence" & as BushCo Propagandists they are not only complicit/guilty in ALL Bush crimes, but deeply treasonous to the American people!

[Sparkly]

20. Did he admit that Moore did not "fudge facts," or say what facts were "fudged?" nt

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

22. It's all a big dumb publicity stunt.

Turn CNN off.

[churchofreality]

26. You'd think a doctor would be happy someone was exposing healtcare

But he works for CNN so he has to attack liberals.

[lovuian]

29. I think the scariest thing Moore said was people should

turn off their TV's this is very scary for the propoganda machine