Can anyone tell me exactly what the hell "WINNING" in Iraq means?

[eeyore]

Honestly. I can't for the life of me figure out what the hell all of these right wing asshats mean when they talk about WINNING!

Just heard a McCain soundbite on the radio today, and he was saying that Republicans are in this war to WIN it. What the fuck is he talking about?

What does winning look like? Will someone tell us when we've won? Do we get a prize for winning?

How the hell can anyone fall for this shit? Does the average 30 percenter really think that there is a goal line that we are trying to reach with this occupation? Do they really think we are still fighting the war on terra over there? And do they think it will all be over if we just bomb Iraq back to the fucking stone age?

Please help me understand the mentality of these whackjobs.

What the fuck do they mean when they talk about WINNING THE WAR?

Country Joe McDonald must be REALLY confused now.
"One, two, three - what are we fighting for?"
Sorry, Joe, none of us really have any fucking idea! Not even the sorry lot that supported this shit from the beginning!

:crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

[flyingfysh]

1. It means getting their oil

What else could it mean?

[eeyore]

4. Is that what it means to the average 30 percenter?

Do you think that the average pro-military person really thinks that it's worth continuing this for Haliburton oil profits? Or do they think we are fighting a just battle for dominance over oil that rightly belonged to someone else?

I think that for many at this point it is a point of pride, and that they have no idea what it looks like to win this. Kind of like a stumbling drunk looking to fight every last person in the bar for his right to drive drunk.

[jtrockville]

19. More specifically: foreign control of their oil revenues.

...

Many in the U.S. and Baghdad express fears that the draft oil law says little about sharing oil revenues among Iraqi Shias, Sunnis and Kurds, and a lot about setting up a framework for investment that would benefit foreign companies and harm the Iraqis over the long term.

... more: http://www.aljazeera.com/news/newsfull.php?newid=8371

Cheney's greed knows no bounds.

[malaise]

28. Ding ding...we've got a

winner.

[Vincardog]

30. IT means continuing to fight and die until jr is evicted and they can blame the Democratic Admin

[corkhead]

2. when we get all those flowers and chocolates we were promised

[SammyWinstonJack]

3. When every last tax dollar is extracted and safely tucked into the

bank accounts of bu$hco,inc and friends.

[eeyore]

8. Okay, but what does that get the average military family?

What do they think we are fighting to win at this point? Why do they think their sons and daughters are still there? Seriously, they think there is something left to win. What the hell is it?

[Stanchetalarooni]

5. Go ask the Apache, the Sioux, the Cherokee, the Erie, the...........

They know the answer you are looking for.

[The_Casual_Observer]

6. In a nutshell:

An Israel friendly, oil pumping & flower throwing little piece o' heaven in the Middle East.

[Binka]

12. Ding Ding Ding

There you have it!

[eeyore]

21. Binka, you have a son in the military, right?

Can you tell me what the soldiers think they are trying to win? Not the disillusioned ones who get it, but the poor souls who are still on fully on board with this crap.

What does the average Republican soldier think they are trying to win? Do they really think there is a point at which we will win it? Do they even think about it at all? Seems like a goal is pretty basic to a military mission, so they must have one in mind as soldiers. Something beyond get through the day alive.

[Binka]

27. From What Ben Says NOBODY Is On Board The BullShit Bus Anymore

The psychopaths still want to kill brown people but the average GI Joe thinks the whole thing is A cluster-fuck.

[eeyore]

34. Well, I guess that's sort of refreshing to hear...

Sort of refreshing to know that people don't buy this bullshit, but actually just really sad that they get it and are still stuck there risking their lives.

Thanks for the info, and truly hope your son is safe!

[Binka]

39. Ben Is Getting Out In A Few Weeks

He is safe and with his girl in 29 Palms as we speak.

[eeyore]

46. I'm happy to hear that he is safe, Binka!

Congrats to you and him!

:toast:

[eeyore]

14. That's what a Republican military family is looking to win?

Honestly, that is likely what McCain wants to win. But what the hell do the lower/middle class pro-military Republicans think we are there to win?

[The_Casual_Observer]

43. Those would be it. It implies no more bad guys too.

[pocoloco]

23. They are going to have to bury the Iraq to Israel oil pipeline mighty deep!

[Disturbed]

7. Winning means that the Iraqi Govt. completes the Oil Deal.

Once the Oil is secured for the Multi-Natls success in Iraq will be accomplished. The US Troops will be drawn down by half. The US Troops will be down sized and will defend the Green Zone and the Oil Fields Mercs will also remain to protect the Oil.

[SammyWinstonJack]

13. O.I.L Operation Iraqi Liberation.

oops. :yoiks:

[slowry]

9. Being victorious

Isn't it obvious?!!?!?!?!?!?

[Midlodemocrat]

10. Duh. Killing them all and taking their oil.

[eeyore]

25. Is that what the soldiers think winning means?

Seriously. What do soldiers and their families think they are risking their lives for at this point?

I can only assume that a large portion of the people who still support the war are in it, that's why I ask.

[Selatius]

11. Every Iraqi male between the ages of 14 and 65 are dead.

Because then there would only be women and children left to use AK-47s, RPGs, and IEDs. This is how Serb paramilitary forces dealt with the Bosnians and Croats. They rounded the males up and summarily executed them, dumped their bodies into mass graves.

[Bluerthanblue]

15. war never has a 'winner' no ...

..one "wins" when wars are waged.

Someone said something like "war doesn't answer who is right- only who is left, alive".=

I think the answer to your question as it's been answered when i've asked is:
"a safe, stable, democratic Iraq"- or some such mutation of this concept- Not very likely i'm sad to believe. I don't think this story has any kind of "happy ending".

;(

[coco77]

16. Well, from what I hear from rightwinger it is...

bomb them into submission and then go on to Iran.

[eeyore]

22. Why?

What are they hoping to achieve? Are they hoping that we'll kill all the Muslims? Do they think that we can take on half of the world and win?

[Selatius]

37. They think the World War 2 model of total war is the best solution.

Y'know, carpet bombing entire cities to rubble for 5 years killing several million until there is no will left to fight.

[coco77]

51. Exactly.

these people are crazy they really believe that they can take on the whole world because we have nuclear weapons. The military is being destroyed and they really want a draft. I say IMPEACH.

[Double T]

17. There is nothing left of the country to win.

[spanone]

18. it means junior & comrades leave office before it ends....there is no other win

[markk]

20. 50% of the oil profits for the next 50 years?

[cui bono]

24. You can't win an occupation.

We need to get rid of some language. Start with replacing war with occupation. That eliminates the win/lose language, and allows us to redeploy our troops without saying they've lost.

[eeyore]

32. I rarely hear Dems talk about winnng...

It's always Republican politicians, old white guys, who bandy about this notion of winning. And they never lay out exactly what the hell it is they mean. I often feel like the people who still support this tragedy are very similar to football fans who are blindly loyal to a team that will never win. They'll sit out there in the cold and snow, freezing and yelling, and somehow holding on to the belief that they can come back from a 42-0 score int the last five minutes of the fourth quarter.

[cui bono]

35. That's because the Dems just want to cut and run.

;)

Yeah, but the Dems need to counter it EVERY TIME someone uses those terms. And they aren't calling it an occupation, they're still calling it a war.

[eeyore]

41. That's basically what McCain was saying that set me off...

Dems = Quitters
Repukes = In It To Win It

I agree that they need to be called on this form of bullshit rhetoric, and Dems really do need to stop talking about this as a war.

[mzmolly]

26. Uhm, finding the "nukluar weponz?"

Indeed, what the F IS winning?!

[youngdem]

29. Nothing ruins a Republican's day more than being forced to think their policy's impact through

They fight it like a child with medicine.

[piedmont]

31. My version:

1) An Iraqi gov. that can provide basic services to its people (security, clean water, electricity, etc.) AND make decisions that are in the best interest of the Iraqi people.
2) An Iraqi army/security force with the necessary loyalty, manpower, equipment and leadership to ensure the safety of Iraq's people and government.
3) Reducing U.S. combat deaths in Iraq to zero per year, preferably done by eliminating any need for U.S. troops in Iraq.


In 2003 I think these were all reasonably feasible. Now, #1 and 2 would take a miracle (or dividing Iraq) and #3 may only happen as a colossal defeat.

[eeyore]

33. How is that winning anything for us?

I understand what you've laid out, though I disagree that any of that was ever achievable. What I don't get, however, is exactly why the average person thought that doing any of that was a war worth losing people to WIN?

Did people really think that we were going into some sort of Nazi occupation situation? Did they really buy the notion that Iraq was suddenly after us, just coincedentally right after 9-11? I know that there are still many, many people who think that Iraq had something to do with 9-11, but do they still think that's why we are fighting over there?

[piedmont]

42. Stability in the region, security of our oil supply and our ally Israel.

I'm not saying that it was worth going to war for, but those would be legitimate gains from replacing Saddam Hussein with a democratically elected government.

[Zavulon]

36. Winning means awarding no-bid contracts to buddies and being able to

dump the aftermath into the lap of the next occupant of the Oval Office.

[AnotherMother4Peace]

38. I wonder the same thing every time I hear that sound bite. What does it mean?

[damntexdem]

40. Taking over and eliminating the religious enemies.

Oh, you mean winning for the U.S.! Sorry, there is no such thing.

Of course, not really for Iraqis, either.

There's only how bad everyone will lose -- and the longer the U.S. stays, the worse it will be.

[NNN0LHI]

44. For this mercenary his idea of "winning" in Iraq is 160 grand a year tax free

http://www.paloaltodailynews.com/article/2007-7-9-pa-cole

20-year vet of local force to provide security, train Iraqi police

By Banks Albach / Daily News Staff Writer

A month from now, 52-year-old Robert Cole returns to Iraq, where he will train local police, guard high-profile people and even provide backup for U.S. troops.

Though the former East Palo Alto police sergeant's uniform looks like a conventional soldier's outfit - helmet, goggles, flak jacket, khakis and semi-automatic rifle - it comes from a different source: DynCorp International, a defense contractor on the State Department's payroll.

He said he's one of about 20,000 private security specialists operating in Iraq. Cole spent a year there in 2004 and 2005, running projects in Baghdad and Tikrit, and Kirkuk and Sulaimaniyah, cities in the Kurdish north. Cole also spent a year with the United Nations peacekeeping mission in Haiti.

Cole retired from East Palo Alto in 2003 after 20 years with the department. He said his law enforcement experience was crucial in obtaining the private security work.

Cole doesn't like the word "mercenary," but with a $160,000 annual salary, patriotism isn't the only thing drawing him back into the crosshairs of suicide bombers and improvised explosive devices.

[nadinbrzezinski]

45. Oil Sharing Agreements

that is what winning means

Read Palast's book... armed madhouse... it is clear as oh well day.

[zbdent]

47. It means being able to convince the public that Democrats are

unpatriotic ... it has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with actually achieving peace in Iraq or defeating terrorists ...

[Beelzebud]

48. It means their emperor will board an aircraft carrier and officially surrender.

You know. Just like Japan did in World War II. /me pukes.

[Hubert Flottz]

49. The Baghdad Derby?

[treestar]

50. I debated this with several RWers and could only conclude that

1 - they really believe (in spite of everything changing after 911) that there will be a final armistice in which Al Qaeda surrenders, and or

2 - this war really is for their personal psychological benefit - the U.S. has to "win" or they will feel personally like "losers." People can die, and that's OK, so long as their feeling of victory over others is going to be there for them. But they don't know what winning would mean - but when Chimpy tells them we've won, they'll believe it.

[Javaman]

52. Well according to moron* it means...

bottom of the ninth, bases loaded, you are down 3 runs and your best hitter is up.

Ohhhhhhh you mean iraq. He* doesn't have a clue.