Wrong time for impeachment hearings.

[Flabbergasted]

During Thom Hartmans radio program this morning on AAR he talked of a interview with Bernie Sanders who said: "Impeachment would be a Rove wet dream for it would give Republicans shelter to support Bush instead of jumping ship like they are doing now."

Impeachment hearings on Cheney may be a much different story?

[Elspeth]

1. I agree with Sanders' assessment here.

Cheney's a better target but there might be some kind of boomerang effect there too.

[marions ghost]

49. the rats are gonna leave the sinking ship

either way...

Why would they look any worse dumping him during impeachment than dumping him without inpeachment?

I'm not getting the point.

[onenote]

2. me too. but I wonder if others will now label Bernie a DINO

Or I guess he'd be an INO.

[corkhead]

3. It shouldn't be a political issue, it is a matter of justice and accountability

[goddess40]

7. Thank you for stating what should be obvious to all

but isn't. When a law is broken it needs to be addressed - this is what the republicans mean when they say Democrats are weak on crime and they laugh all the way to the bank and the White House.

[Flabbergasted]

8. The Republican Party is collapsing. In this case we can get far more done by just letting them.

We may even be able to change the course in Iraq. Bush fears this the most.

[John Q. Citizen]

16. Yes, it's why opinion polls are the lowest in history right now for the new Dem controlled congress

People like them so much that when they are polled the say they disapprove. Especially independents.

I know it's confusing but I'm sure you will come up with a rationalization that will explain it to yourself.

[Flabbergasted]

20. On the other hand if enough republican congressman crossed the aisle...

and a true change of course in Iraq were seen it would raise democratic polling numbers and put Bush further in the tank.


You're dead wrong.

[John Q. Citizen]

28. Are you saying I'm wrong that the Dem controlled congress #s are lower than they were

before the people gave the Dems control? i heard this on NPR just two or three days ago.

Don't ever underestimate the Dems abilty to screw themselves by being clever. It's happened over and over.

Right now, there is overwhelming support among Dems and independents for impeachment. So of course they won't do the right thing and start criminal investigation into Chaney. And when they lose congress (one or both houses) in 08 they will wonder why?

Watch and see. And then start scambling for an excuse that points the finger somewhere else. Maybe resurgent religion, or sunspots, or Hugo. Just watch.

[Flabbergasted]

30. Read post 25.

[frylock]

36. shit, we've got plenty of time for that..

don't hold your breath waiting for that to happen.

[jpgray]

11. Most important things shouldn't be political issues. But they all are

[John Q. Citizen]

18. Yes, and the new Dem controlled congress is getting the lowest pulic approval #s in history

Especially among independents.

That's why their stratedgy is working. Right?

[jpgray]

29. Having an almost evenly divided Congress ensures that very little gets done

Having the previous majority leave as many messes as possible for the incoming slim majority exacerbates that even more.

[John Q. Citizen]

35. Hey, that's a great excuse. Write it down so when the Dems lose one or both house in 08

they won't have to even think about the fact that impeachment is tremendously popular among Dems and independents and if they don't do it people are going to be pissed.

You know, the Dems had the Senate from 1996 until 2002 Then the Repos had a slim majority in the Senate until 2008. For some reason, they passed a shit load of very bad legislation from 2000 until 06, got a shit load of bad appointments through, and never once whined about their slim majority.

We have a pretty good majority in the house right now. They should use it to start criminal investigations into Chaney - aka Impeachment.

[jpgray]

37. Great. Instead of opposition that goes too slowly, we will have no opposition at all

But we can complain about it!

[Individualist]

22. I'm glad the campaign to dissuade people from supporting impeachment is a miserable failure.

[Flabbergasted]

24. Its been extremely successful. nt

[Individualist]

26. That's what * says about the Iraq war.

[wakeme2008]

4. I am against impeachment NOW

If Cheney was impeached or retired, Bush could pick his choice for the 2008 Presidential run. A sitting VP normally gets the parties nod.

[John Q. Citizen]

45. bush has to get his VP nomination approved by congress. He can't just put in anybody he pleases.

[partylessinOhio]

5. Bush/Cheney picked the time when they did the crime.

Don't think too much - just follow the Constitution.

[Mass]

6. I guess that Sandy is also a traitor and a corporatist neocon.

:sarcasm:

I am just saying that because I expect all the DUers who have been attacking in the threads concerning senators proposing something else than impeachment to jump in this one and attack Sanders.

[John Q. Citizen]

14. Senators can't propose impeachment. Read the constitution and get back to us.

[Mass]

17. I know - It seems many Duers dont.\nt

[nosmokes]

9. Let 'em rally round shrubco. FCOL his numbers are in the tank.n/t

[Flabbergasted]

10. It would kick their base into high gear as well. nt

[Exiled in America]

32. They don't have much of a "base" left.

Much of the big machine has been dismantled by this administrations colossal failures and crimes.

[ThomWV]

12. I'm supposed to care if Replican Leaders stand behind Mr, 29% Bush?

I'm supposed to care that they are backing a loser and in doing so will become losers themselves?

If I can't stand Bush and you tell me you support him then you are just so much worthless shit to me - the same will happen to anyone who stands with him - let them have their numbers fall as low as his and see if they can get reelected.

[Flabbergasted]

15. Bush would gain support from impeachment hearings.

[John Q. Citizen]

23. You are aware, of course, that the new congress has the lowest approval ratings

in history right now as we type, right?

Lower than bush.

Especially among independent voters.

It that because people are happy that impeachment is off the table?

[Flabbergasted]

25. NPR: Iraq War Sinks Congress' Approval Rating

Congressional approval rates tumble amid the country's sour mood stemming from the Iraq war. Democrats took office in January with a 43 percent approval rating, which has now dropped below 30 percent. The biggest drop is among Democrats. The most disaffected are independents.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=11823643

[John Q. Citizen]

40. Cokie is almost always wrong. She was hyping "values" after 04 and we know

that was a load of crap.

She doesn't say where she gets her info or how she knows it's about the war. I imagine that a lot of it is, but it's more complicated than that. She also doesn't say people are pissed because they know that Pelosi or Reid could have blocked the supplemental just by not scheduling a vote. They don't say a lot sometimes. In fact they say stuff like, "The slim Majority blah blah blah," they don't say big majorities of Dems and independents favor impeachment for instance. Impeachment starts in the House where we have a lot larger majority and no filibuster.

Impeachment means a criminal investigation first. Then a vote as to whether there is enough evidence to support an indictment.

I believe the country is in favor of a criminal investigation.

[Flabbergasted]

41. "....in favor of a criminal investigation": You wish it were so; but you know it is not. nt

[John Q. Citizen]

44. Here is the poll Check out Dems and independents and average those

who are against impeachment. It's small like like 26% are opposed. If the undecideds break even, that puts 60% of independents in the impeach Chaney catagory.

http://americanresearchgroup.com/

And check out the Chaney numbers in particular. Chaney needs to be impeached first. Impeachment means a crininal investigation.

I don't think many Repos are going to vote Dem if the Dems refuse to impeach

Question:
Do you favor or oppose the US House of Representatives beginning impeachment proceedings against President George W. Bush?

7/5/07 Favor Oppose Undecided

All Adults 45% 46% 9%
Voters 46% 44% 10%

Democrats (38%) 69% 22% 9%
Republicans (29%) 13% 86% 1%
Independents (33%) 50% 30% 20%

3/15/06 42% 49% 9%

Based on 1,100 completed telephone interviews among a random sample of adults nationwide July 3-5, 2007. The theoretical margin of error is plus or minus 3 percentage points, 95% of the time. Of the total sample, 933 interviews were completed among registered voters.

Question:
Do you favor or oppose the US House of Representatives beginning impeachment proceedings against Vice President Dick Cheney?

7/5/07 Favor Oppose Undecided

All Adults 54% 40% 6%
Voters 50% 44% 6%

Democrats (38%) 76% 24% -
Republicans (29%) 17% 83% -
Independents (33%) 51% 29% 20%

Based on 1,100 completed telephone interviews among a random sample of adults nationwide July 3-5, 2007. The theoretical margin of error is plus or minus 3 percentage points, 95% of the time. Of the total sample, 933 interviews were completed among registered voters.

[Flabbergasted]

52. The near even split in regards to Bush Impeachment would lead to a huge...

partisan bickering contest which would ultimately benefit Bush, motivate the Republican Base, and give R congressman cover. A Cheney impeachment may work well however.

[PetrusMonsFormicarum]

13. Impeach YES! Why?

The importance of getting impeachment proceedings going lies not in the swift removal of these anal sphincters from office, but rather to virtually insure that the next 18 months are as unproductive as the first six years. Believe me, it goes against everything that I believe a government should do for its people, but the alternatives (Cheney dragging us into Iran, Bush recovering in the polls and actually becoming popular again, our precious rights eroding further, another "terrorist attack") are unbearable.

I have to say, though, that impeachment proceedings against Cheney alone will be most effective. Shooter wants out of the job anyway. With him out of the way, W would truly be alone, and the thought of him getting lost in the halls of the WH and whiling away days doodling on WH stationery, just makes me happy! Yay schadenfreude!

[goodgd_yall]

19. Repugs jumped ship with the immigration issue already

It's not beyond them to jump the USS G.W.*. Impeachment will be a citizen-driven issue, and if they know what's good for them as far as the election goes, they will not be running to *s defense.

[Flabbergasted]

21. The media would frame it as a dem vendetta. nt

[frylock]

39. well in that case, lets not do jack fucking shit..

heaven forfend if the librul media were to lash out at the Dems.

[Flabbergasted]

42. Much is accomplished while doing nothing nt

[conscious evolution]

34. Great reply.

Reveal the true nature of his crimes and other pukes will desert him faster than rats on a sinking ship.

[JDPriestly]

27. Impeachment hearings should take place closer to the 2008

elections. We are only beginning to see the inner workings of this administration. I want impeachment, but this is not yet the time.

We Americans need a clearer view of what is and has been going on. The Cunningham matter and the lies to go to war are one and the same underlying massive scandal. That scandal has been going on for a long time, and, I hate to say it, but the "bad behavior" involves a few Democrats. We need to make it clear once and for all that the people of America with one voice reject corruption regardless of the party, regardless of the individuals involved. We want an impeachment that is supported by all honest Americans. It simply isn't quite yet that time.

Michael Moore's statement on CNN put Wolf Blitzer on notice that he and the rest of the media need to quit the news business or start giving liberal news figures and news items more respect and more time. I dropped my cable subscription long ago because I couldn't stand the one-sidedness of the the conservative MSM. The reaction of the MSM to the Supreme Court's appointment of Bush to the presidency totally disgusted me. The silence of the MSM regarding that crime against our nation and our democracy will reverberate through history.

Eventually the MSM will get the message. We are giving them the message right here right now on this website as are the many bloggers who completely surpass the MSM in their ability to ferret out corruption and publicize what they find. Americans are not stupid, and ridiculing anyone with an IQ over 130 as being the "elite" will not silence intelligent people of conscience forever. We will speak out. We will be heard. The facts, the corruption of the Bush administration, demand explanation. If the MSM doesn't take it upon itself to speak out, the MSM will lose along with the rest of us. They are human, and wealthy as they are, they cannot escape the fate that awaits every human on this earth if we ignore the viewpoints of liberals.

As we see in Iraq, military toys do not ensure power and authority anymore. Integrity and caring about others are the only reliable bases for power and authority in today's world. The Bushies have destroyed the basic integrity that gave rise to America's authority and power. We need a really good government made of people devoted to democratic ideals to rebuild what the Republicans have destroyed over the past 50 years since Nixon was elected.

Wolf Blitzer and his ilk should resign in shame. They are liars. They have facilitated the liars in the White House. They should leave room for honest, enlightened journalists.

[GeorgeGist]

31. Well then ...

we should expect the Republicants to move for impeachment any day now.

[terrya]

33. I agree with Senator Sanders' assessment.

He's absolutely right. It would be "rally around the President" time for the Republicans.

[snappyturtle]

38. Lemmings. n/t

[VP505]

43. Personally I think

Sanders is completely wrong on that issue, that might have been true last year, but not now. Sure the hard core 25% may well get worked up over impeachment, but that's why starting with Gonzo and Cheney is a must. Once everything Gonzo has done and Chaney's crimes and shenanigans are exposed it will be very difficult for Rove/Bu$h to turn that into a positive, after all Bu$h sat there and allowed Gonzo and Cheney to do whatever they wanted. I think that the Republics in the House and Senate will all be thinking about their re-election and that Rove wet dream will turn into a dry nightmare.

[marions ghost]

50. Ditto

yep.

[wiggs]

46. For those with that perspective, why is it that they don't say

that there certainly ARE impeachable offenses...and this is what they are...and congress was given the power of impeachment for just this kind of administration...and that he hopes that indictments will follows these guys for years after office...

...BUT the timing isn't right

I don't know...it seems that those who argue against impeachment never square with the facts and never come right out and say that these guys are criminals but are dug in like ticks. I believe wholeheartedly that impeachment should be pursued but I would respect arguments against impeachment more if I heard these guys really, REALLY lay out an honest, thorough enumeration of misdeeds. I still feel like they are pulling punches and I don't agree with that.

having said that, I'll say that the times I've heard Sanders he sounds forthcoming.

[Swamp Rat]

47. Impeachment would be a Rove's worst nightmare... BRING IT ON!!

[sampsonblk]

48. Landscape will change when Congress does its job

Its time to start talking about specific crimes. Its time to start investigating them as such.

Then the political landscape will change.

Of course its not time for impeachment hearings. Its like trying to pick a proper sentence for a man who hasn't been charged yet, and hasn't been shown to be guilty as sin.

[mmonk]

51. I respectfully disagree. When the spot lights shine, the roaches

scatter. I do agree Cheney would be an easier path to impeachment.