What's up with the Gore '08 but Joe Liebermann is Satan people here?

[Exiled in America]

Did Gore not choose him as his VP in 2000? I'm not sure I understand why Gore is considered by a noticeable number of DUers to be the poster child for the true democrat and proud liberal. His platform in 2000 was very centrist and Gore found himself in policy agreement with Bush on more than one issue.

Do people feel that after his burn in 2000, Gore had a kind of "come-to-jesus" and has been reborn a different man than he was six years ago? Or what?

[madokie]

1. time to pull up a chair and have a sit

there's nothing wrong with making a mistake as long as a lesson is learned

[Exiled in America]

65. I totally agree - I was wondering if that's what most people felt happened.

[Zensea]

2. This question does not even deserve a reply. n/t

[Name removed]

3. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[GeorgeGist]

10. Your reply ...

tells me something.

[Zensea]

11. That I have a low threshold for ignorance at the moment perhaps?

:evilgrin:

or possible flamebait?

[NoPasaran]

59. This reply does not even deserve a rejoinder n/t

[Exiled in America]

67. Why not? I don't understand. The same people who praise gore trash liebermann (I trash him too)

It seems kind of odd since they were part of the same ticket. Has Gore ever made any public statements that say he made a mistake or would do things differently?

[churchofreality]

4. Because he is Satan.

[Exiled in America]

69. If he means Joe, I agree. And I voted for Gore too. But I'm uncertain what people think about ...

...the connection between them.

[H2O Man]

5. By using this

same substitute for logic, how in the hell could these DUers have liked RFK in '68?

[Jackpine Radical]

7. You mean, just because he was a McCarthyite?

[H2O Man]

15. I think

he ran against McCarthy.

[Jackpine Radical]

52. That's not exactly the McCarthy I had in mind.

[H2O Man]

58. I know.

It was a tiny attempt at humor, though it failed.

[Jackpine Radical]

62. No it didn't. I understood what you were about.

[Horse with no Name]

6. Take time to educate yourself on the machinations of the DLC

and then you will understand why Lieberman was the VP pick.

[LSparkle]

14. But I think Gore DID have a "come to jesus" moment about the DLC

after 2000. He was handled to death, he was saddled with Clinton's baggage, he didn't get his environmental programs pushed because Big Dawg didn't have the political capital after Monica ... I really, truly think that he's returned to his roots, which were far more liberal than Clinton. My dad always used to say he liked Al Gore, Sr. better than junior -- Sr. was against the Vietnam War, while his son served (albeit as a journalist). Like so many of us, we become our parents as we age (which in Gore's case is a good thing).

[Horse with no Name]

16. Yes he did

and I will admit that I didn't understand how evil the DLC was back then either.
We have all learned some hard lessons.

[Exiled in America]

70. See this is what I thought too, but I didn't know if I was just smoking crack.

Does anyone remember his final "concession" speech after the courts gave the election to bush?

It was inspired... and he wrote it himself. It sounded like he really had a soul. :)

[Alexander]

8. Where have you been the past 7 years?

Look at the two men, and everything they've done, since the 2000 selection.

[Exiled in America]

71. I know, I know! :) But Gore also isn't running for anything.

What makes anyone think that if he was running for president he wouldn't again look exactly like Gore2k ?

I honestly don't know what to think. I know that people can say a lot more of what they think when they aren't in politics. I'm not sure if he would bring something new to the political scene if he ran (mainly candor and honesty) or if he would just turn back into the...with all due respect... puppet figure he was in 2000.

[Liberal Veteran]

9. Joe hadn't quite got fitted for his asshat in 2000.

But why tilt at his windmill now?

Oh, wait...nevermind....I know the answer to that.

[Exiled in America]

72. That's a fair point. I can't remember if it was as clear what a conservative nutjob he was.

[hfojvt]

12. Hello, McFly? Anybody home?

Have you been paying attention since 2000?

Al Gore has given a number of speeches, written a couple of books, done a movie on the environment. He hits most of our major themes.

1) Spoke out against the war before the war began.
2) spoke out against Abu Ghraib and other lapses of American ideals and constitutional government.
3) Has been pro-environment since "Earth in the Balance" (early 1990s?)
4) Has written about the decline of reason in our public discourse.

And so on.

Also, I do not remember his campaign being so centrist. Here are some snips from his acceptance speech in 2000:

"Together, let's make sure that our prosperity enriches not just the few, but all working families. Let's invest in health care, education, a secure retirement, and middle class tax cuts."

"But my focus is on working families - people trying to make house payments and car payments, working overtime to save for college and do right by their kids… Whether you're in a suburb, or an inner-city… Whether you raise crops or drive hogs and cattle on a farm, drive a big rig on the Interstate, or drive e-commerce on the Internet… Whether you're starting out to raise your own family, or getting ready to retire after a lifetime of hard work.

So often, powerful forces and powerful interests stand in your way, and the odds seemed stacked against you -- even as you do what's right for you and your family."

Taking the side of working people against powerful forces. That sounds kinda Marxist to me. What more do you want?

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/election2000/demconvention/gore3.html

As for Joe Lieberman, although he sucked bad in the debate against Cheney, it was not known what an evil toad he was until the Iraq war was started, and Gore endorsed the anti-war Howard Dean in 2004.

[Exiled in America]

73. Totally. I love post-2k Gore. However, post 2k Gore isn't RUNNING for office.

What makes you think he would still speak and act like post2k Gore if he was?

[Bluebear]

13. Do you purposefully try to find the hottest questions to ask just to stir people up?

[assclown_bush]

19. That does not answer the OP. Why not try a proper response?

Or is Gore above reproach?

[Bluebear]

20. Begging your pardon, maybe I thought this WAS the proper response

to this poster.

Good luck to your candidate Hillary, but picking on Gore for his 2000 selection is a bit odd. Did Lieberman reveal himself to be the Republican he is in 2000?

[assclown_bush]

22. It's not and it doesn't.

n/t

[Bluebear]

23. Go pick a fight elsewhere.

[assclown_bush]

27. You are the bellicose one. I simply find you amusing.

n/t

[Bluebear]

28. My life is much simpler since I expanded my ignore list. Welcome to it.

Your agenda is crystal clear, ever since you started with your anti-Gore campaign the very day of LiveEarth.

Ciao! We won't be running into each other again!

[uppityperson]

77. Did you notice the..

n/t in the message?

[LeftishBrit]

55. Lieberman got elected senator as a (relative) right-winger in 1988...

The National Review supported him, and he was regarded as being to the right of his Republican opponent.

However, I don't see that this necessarily means something bad about Gore. As I understand, presidential candidates often deliberately choose a running-mate from a different faction of the party.

[Exiled in America]

74. I am purposely not afraid of any question.

I don't like insulated circle-jerk groups that bathe in group-think and march in lock-step.

I don't think Democratic Underground fits that label. But I think it most certainly will if certain people are allowed to scream "troll!" and "flame bait!" every time someone asks a difficult question that challenges the prevailing dogma.

I think questions in my mind and I don't feel afraid to ask them here. I've had my mind changed many times as well. My concerns about the presentation of information in SICKO? Remember that thread? Totally turned me around on that one. Lots of good points were made by reasonable people, even though I had to sift through all the asshole dick head comments to get to people willing to have a discussion.

DU will become a waste of space unless its members get over their hyper-obsessiveness with who is a "troll" and who isn't and continue to be willing to engage people who claim to have honest questions with honest, sophisticated, mature, intelligent discourse.

I ask the questions I have. No more, no less.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Alexander]

18. Gore's work since 2000 has been 180 degrees from Lieberman...

And you are living up to your screen name quite nicely, I see.

:eyes:

[assclown_bush]

21. What does my screen name have to do with it?

Is an ad hominem attack the only way you can reply to a post?

[Alexander]

31. You can't refute my argument. Just admit it, it'll be okay.

"Is an ad hominem attack the only way you can reply to a post?"

At least I addressed your point.

Admit when you're wrong and go home.

[assclown_bush]

50. What that Al Gore chose Joe Lieberman as his running mate?

That he felt Lieberman was the best man for that post? The finest running mate he could find? Is that what you are squawking about?

[Exiled in America]

76. I agree with you - but I've been pointing out that he's not running for anything.

So a lot of people want him to run in 2008. And at least some of those people want him to run not because of who he was in 2000, but who he's become since 2000.

My question / concern is, why do people think that if Al Gore ran again he wouldn't revert right back to the Al Gore of 2000? It's much easier to be more "radical" when you're outside of politics.

And of course, that begs another question - not everyone had a problem with Gore's platform or campaign in 2000, so if he ran again and represented the same al gore he was in 2000, would that be ok with you?

There's no right answer here...I just learn by hear other people's opinion.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

24. Gore picked Lieberman to balance his ticket.

So he made a mistake.

What, you think your own shit don't stink?

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[demgirlamerica]

25. i like joe lieberman

we have honest disagreements on the war, but he is a solid liberal on every other issue. gore reminds me of a medicine show huckster.

[Bluebear]

26. "Lieberman Touts Endorsement from Anti-Gay Religious Leaders ..."

A group of New Haven Latino clergy known for virulently opposing gay rights measures threw their support behind U.S. Sen. Joseph Lieberman's reelection campaign Thursday in a speech that focused on family values and faith. The group said the senator’s opposition to gay marriage contributed to their endorsing him: "We will not support a candidate that will go against the values of the traditional family as we know it and the Bible teaches us."

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=lieberman+gay+marriage&fr=yfp-t-501&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8
====


Yeah a real solid liberal.

[demgirlamerica]

32. you are off base

i think if the liberal population of massachusettes had been allowed to vote they would have voted down gay marriage.

[Bluebear]

35. YOU are off base. Human rights are nothing to "vote" on. Even in "massachusettes" nt

[bicentennial_baby]

37. Bwahahahaha!

You obviously don't know MA! :rofl:

I think it is *you* who are off base!

[AllieB]

40. Civil rights should never be up for a vote

If you know ANYTHING about what happened in MA, many of the signatures on the petition were proven forgeries, and it showed how little the opposition to gay marriage understood about the Constitution.

[Alexander]

42. You sound exactly like a freeper.

[Puglover]

57. Spells like one too. n/t

[sniffa]

43. when massachusett(e)s was in sodimites' hands

Let my peopLe vote
straights oppressed so hard they couLd not stand
Let my peopLe vote

go down kris mineau
way down in homosexachusett(e)s
teLL those activist judges
Let my peopLe vote


if onLy you Lived in our state and knew how to speLL it, you couLd have been one of the bigots to sign that petion.

[AllieB]

45. Hahaha

:rofl:

[bicentennial_baby]

48. ....

:spray:

I love you.

[JackBeck]

46. Do you think that sex discordant couples of different races should be allowed to marry?

I'll point you to the 60's if you need some help.

Way to tout talking points. Sometimes y'all don't even know how to hide, yet think you are so clever.

[Puglover]

56. Let me guess.

You're sharing your wisdom and knowledge of "massachusettes" from Dogpatch? :hi:

[NMMNG]

64. Is that you Kris?

:shrug:

[uppityperson]

78. I think you don't know what you are talking about, you assume untruths to be true.

[Richard Steele]

81. My, what fascinating opinions you express.

[Alexander]

33. Then what are you doing here?

Lieberman is not a Democrat, and he is not a "solid liberal".

I think you either belong elsewhere or you need some information regarding Holy Joe.

[assclown_bush]

36. Lieberman has given us the small majority in the senate...

I don't like Joe Lieberman now and I did not like him when he ran with Gore...I think we should be grateful that Lieberman still claims to be a Democrat or we would not control the senate.

[Blue Belle]

39. Lieberman gives US the majority in Senate???

Lieberman??? Who Votes along Republican lines 99.9% of the time? I guess you and I have a different definition of majority.

[Alexander]

41. If you *don't like* Lieberman, why respond?

I took issue with another poster's comments where they said "I like Joe Lieberman".

Since you obviously do not, why respond? We agree on this.

[JackBeck]

51. He may caucus with the Dems

but how often does he vote with them?

[uppityperson]

80. He calls himself an Indi-Dem, but votes Repub. How is that a Dem majority?

Unless you mean something different by "us".

[Cha]

38. Boy do you have a wrong

number.

[Cha]

30. Good Grief! You've been on

DU since 2005..surely you've been paying some attention since then?

Gore has evolved since 2000(and he wasn't so bad then) on the other hand..lieman has devolved and he is now satan's fucking brother. Fucking warmongeringwhore.

[Exiled in America]

79. I've actually been on DU since 2000. :) RE: Gore evolution:

regarding Gore's evolution since 2000, I have certainly seen it and loved it.

But I've been posting this reply to several different respondents. I think a lot of that change has to do with the fact that Gore is not in politics now. He is much more free to say anything he wants without pressures from outside. Do you think that he would still look and sound like he looks and sounds now if he decided to run for president in 2008? If yes, would he have any shot at the nomination? If no, would he be worth supporting for the nomination?

That's the catch-22 that I perceive.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dinger]

49. "King Gore" = Flamebait

In my opinion anyway.

[undeterred]

44. Joe Liebermann is Satan.

[Cha]

47. Jeebus, I thought lieman

was satan's brother joe?

[Matsubara]

53. A lot has changed in 7 years.

And a LOT of us thought that Lieberman was a terrible choice even then. He should have picked another southerner or midwesterner. Having a conservative on the ticket alienated a lot of voters, someo fo whom already thought Gore was too far right. Having a jew on the ticket undoubtedly hurt him in southern states, where some voters may be anti-semitic, or may just associate a Jewish name with yankees and liberalism. Believe it or not, there are millions of voters who don't study the issues at all and actually vote on superficial shit like that.

Anyway, 9-11 seemed the catalyst for a shift even further right for the already-conservative Lieberman (who you may remember, trash-mouthed Gore soon after the election loss), while Gore took a sabbatical and went about finding a new purpose.

I'm not pro or anti-Gore. His movie was good, but to be honest, I would not vote for a candidate based on one plank, and I would need to know what he is going to do to make sure that poor kids get fed and educated, and that there are more and better jobs for working class and poor people. Even if it means half of Florida under water, that would STILL be my number one priority.

[rec_report]

54. Because LieberBush *is* Satan. n/t

[mwb970]

60. What on earth are you talking about?

Your post makes no sense to me.

[charlie]

61. Another transmission from planet X-Z1L3D

Mysterious world, shows enticing signs of being rich in obtusium and flatucite.

[mmonk]

63. Read his new book.

He's sane while others have lost their minds.

[Exiled in America]

66. I'm sorry for not being able to get back to this thread until now.

I work a lot.

But I'll check out the responses. :)

[Nutmegger]

68. Gore has moved to the left.

LIARman has moved to the rabid pro-war wing of the right.

[karynnj]

75. Gore is not responsible for everything Leiberman did post 2001

Gore has shifted since 2001 - to be even more credible than he was in 2000. Leiberman has moved in the opposite direction on foreign policy.

As to the choice - look where they had issues in common. Leiberman was very well reguarded as an environmentalist - he had a life time LCV average of 92 (second to Kerry's 96). He was highly regarded on civil rights. We may not like it here - but Leiberman and Gore were reasonably close on economic issues. There were also no obvious differences THEN on foreign policy. Leiberman was slightly more liberal, but close to Gore on issues important to Gore.

There was no way to anticipate 911 and Iraq - they were not on the horizon beack in 2000.

[Socal31]

82. How dare you question The Gore on this board!

That is like questioning if the earth is round!

:sarcasm: