Steve in LA to Michael Moore on HuffPo Chat: Tell Gupta we're not looking for "Health Care Utopia"

[BurtWorm]

Steve in Los Angeles: Michael,

Can you please explain to Dr. Gupta that in the world that most
Americans live in, we're not looking for "Health Care Utopia", and
having to wait in a doctors office to be seen is something of a luxury
many of us can no longer afford. His comment that in countries with
free health care there is a long wait-time to see a doctor and it takes
months to schedule elective surgery is laughable. That's like telling a
starving person "don't bother with the free food, there's a line to get
in and service is just awful." Are you joking?

I'm a self employed carpenter with no health insurance. None. I can't
afford it. I go to work everyday knowing that one slip of the saw, and
I could be choosing my fingers or sewing up my own leg. That's my
reality. Everyday I go to work and listen to the cartilage in my knee
CRUNCH when I climb a ladder, and the only thing I can do is pray it
holds out for just a couple more years. Everyday, I am one misstep
away from bankruptcy.

I've been living with a degenerating knee injury for YEARS because I
can't afford to do a god damn thing about it, and you think having to
wait in a Doctor's office for free treatment is something I care about?
If I could schedule a simple arthroscopy, free of charge but it's
going to have to be in September, do you honestly think I'm going to
say "no, I'd rather wait until arthritis completely debilitates me and
I can no longer work?"

Come live in our world for a while, Doctor, then talk to me about
"wait-time".

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-moore/exclusive-huffpost-live-c_b_55659.html

[BurtWorm]

1. kick

[silverweb]

2. Exactly.

Heartfelt and eloquent, articulated in a way that can not be misinterpreted.

"That's like telling a starving person 'don't bother with the free food, there's a line to get in and service is just awful.' Are you joking?"

[aquart]

3. Al qaida is NOTHING to the terror of injury or illness. NOTHING.

I have contempt for al qaida. I have nightmares about getting sick.

[Lisa]

18. AQ couldn't even pick off 1 in 1000 Americans ... but EVERYBODY gets sick

Every single person in the country ... actually, in the world .... is going to have to worry about at least one of the following during his/her lifetime: infections, broken bones, cancer, circulatory problems.

[melnjones]

4. One of my dogs has had health insurance for almost two years now...

Today I just called a different insurance company. I'm switching my one dog and adding my other dog and my cat onto a plan. An awesome health plan with a ridiculously small deductible, 80% coverage for illness, injury, accidents, and wellness/preventative care, including even flea treatments and annual dental cleanings. That plan for my two dogs, a lower plan for my cat, for $114 a month. But I can't afford health insurance for me...can't even come close to affording health insurance right now, with my pre-existing conditions. (my animals, by the way, two of them have pre-existing conditions, but since it's more than 6 months since they were treated for them, they no longer count against them. Amazing.) I'm going full time in two weeks at my job, so 30 days later I will FINALLY have health insurance for the first time in years. I just find it sad that my dog has been insured for 2 years now, helped me pay for her knee surgery, and I am left avoiding doctors like the plague and praying I don't get sick or injured b/c it will ruin me financially. I honestly wish I could just go to my vet to treat me...

[glarius]

5. Gupta's a disgrace to medicine....he's pushing the for profit style of health

care and trying to make Universal care like Canada's look bad. What kind of a doctor is that? His interest sure isn't that of his patients. He keeps trying to say Canadians wait unreasonable amounts of time for urgent care. This is untrue! If things are so bad here, why do 93% of Canadians want to keep our system?

[Lisa]

19. I have 3 relatives who are physicians -- they're all sticking with our system!

The oldest, now retired, needs dialysis a couple of times per week. And he gets in line like everyone else -- he says that it's fairer than people "jumping the queue" because they have money or connections. By the way, he remembers losing his youngest sibling to a burst appendix, back during the Depression, when the family couldn't afford to pay a doctor. That was before medicare came in.

[mzmolly]

6. I also want to know if Gupta considers - road repair, fire service, police

protection "free?" I do, but I know intellictually we pay for these things with our tax dollars. To suggest that Moore was misleading when he used the term "free health care" is absurd.

[eridani]

16. Always add "at the point of service"

Repeat it often enough and the CNN cretins might eventually get it.

[me b zola]

20. Thanks for making that point

I was saying the same thing during the show.

[Lex]

7. Exactly. I'm so tired of Doctors with their heads up their asses.

nt

[prolesunited]

8. What were missing is the utter selfishness of Gupta

and others like him who have premium care. What they are really saying is "Screw you. I have mine" mentality. They don't want to be inconvenienced by ensuring that others do not die or suffer from lack of care.

For many in low-quality plans, like many HMOs, they already have long wait times, restrictions in choice and have many elective procedures routinely denied. So even having insurance, unless it's gold-plated, is no guarantee of care.

[Zodiak]

10. Many insurance companies routinely deny necessary treatment

I used to work for a health insurance company as a cube rat who just happened to have a lot of medical background from school/past work. They put me on as a "silent" member of the med. review board and I saw some unbelievable horrendous treatment of legimitate medical claims done purely for the cynical reason of seeing if the insuree would fight the decision.

Those people should not be allowed to make quality or sanctity of life decisions...they should be in jail.

Blue Cross Blue Shield of Kansas, by the way. They asked me to f$%# over patients....buyer beware.

[crappyjazz]

9. Remember in Sicko, the old Reagan record that people

could play about scary socialist medicine? Gupta was right back there with the why would we want a precious commodity like healthcare being run by the government? I cannot stand that argument for so many reasons.

Using our system in Canada as an example, the government does not dictate medical care. There is no bureaucrat that descends on a hospital waiting room to approve or not approve that MRI you're waiting for. The government's involvement is to PAY for the care doctors decide to give or prescribe.

Also, it assumes you Americans are all stupid enough to believe that even though many of you can't afford health insurance, it's better to have none at all then to have some that you might have to wait a bit for. The only Americans that can believe that is the ones that can afford healthcare and don't have to worry about ... like Gupta. What a freaking asshole.

This guys' comments above are so spot on. This issue outrages me. I'm babbling, sorry.

[Zodiak]

11. you're not babbling

you're making perfect sense to me.

Gupta can go f$#$ himself.

[Canuckistanian]

15. I agree 100%

We have a wonderful system, it gets absolutely no complaints from me.

I know we have problems, it isn't perfect, but that's not the point. It's BETTER than the Hell the Americans have.

I think all Canadians should see SiCKO, just to remind them that single-payer health care is a thing to be cherished, not discarded for a few to make obscene profits.

[BurtWorm]

23. American physicians by and large are clinging to the notion that the free market

is more "rational." Apparently it's irrational to believe that every human being should have exactly the same access to health care, regardless of income and ability to pay.

[Stephanie]

12. K&R

awesome response. I did like when Gupta was confronted with the dilemma of having to get pre-approval to treat his own patients and he said it was "shameful", but he clearly has no idea how people with no insurance get by.

[alarimer]

13. We already wait

We wait hours in emergency rooms because they are overused and understaffed.

Waiting a few months for elective surgery does not strike me as much of a burden. I assume that for regular checkups you make appointments in advance anyway, just like here. And there is no waiting in Canada or anywhere else for emergency treatment.

[HeeBGBz]

14. That's so true

Keep going til you drop.

[K8-EEE]

17. Gupta seems to think people who watch him are IDIOTS

I literally couldn't believe him acting like a difference per year/capital in Cuba was like $45 different depending on what stats you used, when IT WAS CNN THAT MISQUOTED MOORE'S FILM BY RUNNING $25 INSTEAD OF $251!! Then he's all like, numbers are important Michael...

Just trying to distract from the point that whether it's $6,000 U.S. & $229 Cuban OR $7,000 U.S. & $251 THE FACT REMAINS WE SPEND A HELL OF A LOT MORE TO BE ONLY ONE SLOT ABOVE THEM!

Man, I couldn't believe it....distraction, distraction, distraction, that's what CNN is all about. Fox is more about actively misinforming but CNN takes the cake on dumbass distractions and purposely losing the point.

[Emit]

21. Watching and listening Gupta just irritated me to no end

Notice how he kept saying, "Michael..."? That was so condescending, as if he were the "parent" talking to the "child." "You have to concede this point, Michael, that you're trying to lead people to believe ... that it is free..."

[BurtWorm]

22. kick

[churchofreality]

24. I wonder who's payroll Gupta is on?

Either that or he was conforming to the CNN bash liberals mantra. He couldn't have been more condescending or arrogant. What an asshole.