I live in one of the last agricultural zoned areas

[Joe for Clark]

in the San Fernando Valley. There have been more than a few developers trying their best to develope here. And there is a big fight going on now here. We have grouped together in a "war" against developers trying to come in and get us rezoned - it is a big thing here - you know - we are all "wannabe" farmers and such - and we love our animals - so you can imagine the intensity.

What you do - what we do - is we watch for the city planning meetings and we go - we file lawsuits against the city and the developers trying to pull some crap. We keep up tying their hands until it is just too expensive for them to go on.

That is how you do it.

Joe

[SpiralHawk]

1. The land must be removed from the market

And dedicated to feed the people with clean food. That's what Land Trusts are all about. That's what CSA is all about.

"Community Supported Agriculture (CSA) offers a way for every human being to be directly involved in the care and healing of the earth, while also ensuring a supply of clean, healthy food for their families and their neighbors."

http://www.chiron-communications.com/farms.html

[Joe for Clark]

4. Oh - these bastards are really smart..

What they do - they just get a few lots approved for a split - cause when they do - we fail to meet the required area to have horses. Then we are all screwed.

I have horses and that kind of thing. 1000 pound pets.

We live in the west valley - and we ALL remember what they did to castle peak. It is the promentory due west - an Icon - that we all climbed as kids. They promised to leave castle peak alone - and they did.

What they failed to mention was that they built homes all along the base of it so that it was unavailable.

Oh - we remember that.

We all are grown ups now - and they will NEVER get away with such slight of hand ever again.

They will take our animals over our dead bodies. We all protect each other.

Joe

[Joe for Clark]

6. Oh no -

we bought that land - paid hard money.

But we did so because we knew - we could keep our horses and donkeys and llamas and all that.

It is NOT public land. It is our land. And we have the right to do as we want with it.

I think - we were all looking for a Maybery - and we paid dearly for it.

And for some people to look at it as a potential money machine - well, you see the point.

If we don't hold them off here - Maybe this is the alamo. We love our animals - they are our second families. My horse - man - he is just one of my dogs to me - and I love dogs so much.

It is a strange area - many lawyers and accountants and engineers and all that - all believeing the same - it we don't or can't push these assholes off here - then we really are in trouble.



Joe

[Gregorian]

2. Thanks for what you do.

For decades I have watched as the most fertile land on earth has been paved over. Most people don't even know what I am talking about.

I think most people are in denial. How else could so many people be running around happily living out their little daily lives. I am not happy. Today I sit here watching this with great pain. In fact, I just got off Craiglist looking for property. I happened to run into this listing. Another ranch, gone. Another subdivision. Another place where a hundred more cars will make noise and fill the asphalt roads. I'm deeply saddened. I could write pages here, on what disasters I have seen. Things very few people have been able to see, working their days away in an office. They don't know. But there is damage going on. In forests, old farms, ranches.

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/rfs/371457773.html

[Ecumenist]

3. Joe, I live in the north State and considering that we're in the same state,

I don't know why you can't place that land in the Williamson Act. This Act was created for the very reason that you outline where it comes to agricultural areas. It also works to protect you from the high property taxes that often times compel folks to sell land they love but can no longer afford due to surrounding development.

Here's the link for the information:http://www.consrv.ca.gov/DLRP/lca/index.htm. I hope this helps

I have a large acreage in the northwestern Sacramento Valley and am in the placing our property in it.

[Joe for Clark]

5. I am passing this on to WANA - (that is our organization)

Maybe it will help those lawyers.

I think the money is really trying to get to us right now.

Funny thing is - maybe - a real estate downturn may be our biggest asset.

The good thing is, to us - those lawyers - they live there and they have animals there too.

This is being passed on to those people - I think they knew though.

Joe

[Gregorian]

7. By the way, I just learned something new about the Williamson act this week.

I had a place that was in it, once upon a time. It's not just agricultural. I met someone who is selling a place, and they put their property in the Williamson act. There is a provision for a "scenic corridor".

So even though it may not be actively in agriculture, you might still find a way of getting it. Although I am not sure it will keep it from being developed. My place was 180 acres that was split off of a 5000 acre ranch. So that was an example of being in the act while also being developed. Although I hardly complain about 180 acre subdivisions.

[MuseRider]

8. Been there, still there.

Our city decided to take over the county so they could tax our acres like in the city!!! We would all have had to sell our farms. They caught a lot of trouble from us then they threatened us with annexing the little land that our fire departments sat on and closing them. Then they were going to take away all the land that housed our road equipment. Man it was nasty. I had friends (?) who told me that they hoped we either burned down or died on a slick road. They really inflamed the people to try to win this one. Then they decided to have a vote on it. Well, the city has a lot more people than the county so they said that if the county did not approve it by a certain percentage it would not happen. We won but they are back to trying to do it in other ways. Too bad our county commissioners are financed by developers. I have moved 3 times to get away from that stupid city. The county is not much better but I can live in the middle of my farm and stay relatively free from having a Quick Shop on every corner.

[Joe for Clark]

9. Man - good for you.

We can fight back. When we do - they don't have a chance - they calculate we won't fight back.

Just a number in a cost projection.

You understand - fully - just how sneaky those little bastards are.

Never trust them.

We can fight them off - You keep your farm!!

Some of us are jealous that you even have a chance to keep that.

We are all looking for a Mayberry in our own way - there is a sheriff Taylor out there for us.

And I would be happy as hell to go fishing when I want.

They cannot beat us - if we all stick together now.

Joe

[MuseRider]

10. I hope you are right about that.

My little community is about 40 people, maybe. I have not counted but I think it is more than the 20 that is the common number given. Mostly really cool people. Old hippies like me, concerned with the environment. We have clean up days when we clean the one road and around the train tracks and plant stuff and clean up yards for those who can't. It is pretty cool.

I have long said that the reason there is so much trouble in rural areas with people saying they hate the government and welfare etc. is because we do it here and don't think a thing about it. If they have never lived elsewhere in a city they don't understand how different it is. Anyway, it is even better than Mayberry here and I have a 5 acre bass pond in my front yard that everyone who wants to can fish in as long as they do not use barbed hooks and they throw them back. (I really hate that but then they have been fishing this pond for years before I bought the place) I call it cowboy welfare. Ever tried to do a big project and not have about 4 neighbors show up to help?

My horses, goats, cats, dogs and future chickens like it here. We plant trees where we can spare the pasture, grow grass to feed livestock and in general try to be good stewards of the land. Somehow cement parking lots have become more important to people.

We need to get rid of the big agribusiness. Nobody depends on the farmers anymore, the few who have not been bought out. That could be such a boost to this planet to return to that time with all the new knowledge about how to farm without hurting the environment.

[Joe for Clark]

13. Boy do you have this right.

When I was little the neighbors used to go after deer - and you'd see deer hanging upside down in driveways bleeding out. They'd gut them and all that.

It is actually kind of gross.

But they lived on that meat for months.

I could never kill a mamal - but I understood why they did. It never bothered me. Cause I knew they took what they needed.

The day small farmers die out in this country - the country dies.

This country is about our small agrarian needs - that is who we are.

People who forget that fact - should go back to their law practices.

And we would all be a lot better off.

We moved to Los Angeles - but you are who you are - isn't it?? And I am just a western Pennsylvania kid.

Joe

[MuseRider]

16. It is a hard life

but I would not change it for the world. I was not raised this way. I bought this land after my family died and at the ripe old age of 42 decided to learn how to do this. All by myself I have maintained it but I guess I can't really say that. After I was there a year and they all lost out in their pool (they did not think I would last through the first winter) I have had help and advice whenever I needed it and sometimes when I did not.

If you are ever out Kansas way I can show you lots of the old ways in practice. There are not many but there are still some. :hi: Good luck and hang in there fellow critter lover.

[Joe for Clark]

17. I kind of wish I lived in Kansas sometimes.

Or western Pennsylvania.

Where ever Mayberry is.

This whole thing is a hell of a fight.

There are so many lawyers and accountants and engineers and whatever fighting this out.

And we all love our animals.

I am saying if we lose - watch out - cause we don't live in Mayberry. Not yet.


Joe

[MuseRider]

18. Now you don't hear that very often!

You would be welcome here. We sure have our problems but there is still a lot of good prairie land. Too much of it now belongs to big business ag but you can still find a good piece if you look.

I think it is like that everywhere to some extent unless you are so far away you don't have services but I still don't think that is safe. We aren't Mayberry but it sure is nice here.

I wish you the best. Good luck.

[Joe for Clark]

20. Where? -

I have looked all over California. Nothing.

My wife is Lakota - so maybe I should have looked there and I didn't.

I know west PA - and I know California.

I would sell everything and go to a really peacful place - if I could ever find it. I like fishing = a lot - even for just trout.

I really am looking for Mayberry. I have been for a long time.


The day I do find it - I am so out of here.

Joe

[MuseRider]

21. I am in

NE Kansas. Much of Western Kansas is agribusiness I think and it is pretty flat and lonely. There are lots of ranches through out. The Flint Hills area is beautiful and there are many small towns and land to be found, that is in the east central part of the state. BEAUTIFUL. North of me are some very nice areas. There is land around where I am but the prices have really gone up since I bought my place. You are used to California so it may seem very reasonable. I don't know publications that show those kinds of things but I could look around, maybe the feed store guys would know. The atmosphere is much different. Many places are like Mayberry, really. I will look around and PM you if you are really interested.

[Joe for Clark]

22. Very interested,

Joe

[MuseRider]

23. How many acres?

Land for grass and critters? Do you want to plant something different?

Do you want a house and buildings already?

Let me know when you can.

I just saw your post about your son. I can't tell you how I feel for you and for him. My boys are old enough but not there. I think about you all the time and wish you and your son peace and that he comes home as soon as he can.

[MsMagnificent]

32. Joe

check out farmanddairy.com

It's an excellent weekly paper that serves mainly the state of Ohio, but stretches into W. PA, WV, and other bordering states too.
Great articles on all kinds of farming and livestock.

I just had to move from E Ohio, one of the most beautifully rural areas I have ever been to. Sadly, most of the country people seem to watch Fox News, but most are not fools. All that area needs is a good influx of reasonable people to discuss the principles behind what is happening in this country, to cover up Fox's bombast. Then I think there will be a change. Since 2004 Ohio is already more blue than red, but that's hardly a surprise what with King George's antics, is it?

Someday, hopefully soon, I will get back there.

Good luck with your struggle! The American Farm was and still is the backbone of this nation,
and what's a farm without horses? :D

[formercia]

29. Even trout are getting hard to find

not those hatchery reared ersatz trout, but real wild maine piranhas. I know a few places, but with the warming and bass fishermen illegally stocking fish, it's a longer drive every year.

[InvisibleTouch]

11. I wish you well in your fight.

Another possible option - can you get "grandfathered in" so no one can threaten your animals? A friend of mine has a kennel that had been in the same spot for decades when she bought it, so it's safe even if zoning should change. Now if she were to close it and then re-open it a few years later, they might be able to force her out, but as long as it stays active from an earlier time, she's okay.

[Joe for Clark]

14. You would think so -

We got sold down the river once though.

If they tip the split - zoning balance - they can prevail, technically - but we know now.

Man. they did us all once.

This is a very sophisticated neighborhood - and I am saying we are a warning - if they do manage to get us - you better watch out.

That is what I am trying to say


Joe

[Sanctified]

12. Hope your Local Government does not implement Eminent Domain.

Since our Supreme Court seems to think it's A-OK to take private property from citizens and give it to developers since the land is worth more in tax revenue.

[Joe for Clark]

15. It is a fear -

We know - the property taxes would be greater for the county. It would.

This is a real fight. Can they really take our rights awawy?? Can they??

Man that stupid horse is my fourth son - I like the damn thing.

And it shits all over the place. Really.

But they are NOT taking that damn thing away. I like her. ( not a gelding or stud - though she acts like one).

This is a real fight now - and if we lose - we all lose.

Joe

[Joe for Clark]

19. You know their problem right -

Nobody votes in city counsel elections - hell, I don't either.

But we could.

That is why they are taking us seriously - and they better!

Joe

I think.

[susanna]

24. Joe, keep on fighting.

I will never forget this as long as I live - a true story:

My husband and I want a small (10 acre) farm in mid-lower Michigan (relative farm country) where we'll grow all-natural (eventually organic if they don't screw all the requirements) fruits and vegetables. That's my retirement dream, and my DH is just cool enough to go along with it. Long story short: we're 10-15 years out of retirement, and want to buy the property while we're still working. Pay the payments, pay it off before the time comes, you know? So, we find the perfect property. We go to get a smallish mortgage. We have good credit, we're really simple when it comes to everything like that. Not a lot of debt, and I'm grateful for that.

So we're finishing up the application paperwork when the loan officer asks the zoning of the property. I say (because I know via the county website) "Residential-Agricultural." The LO pulls back as if hot grease spit in her face. "AG-ricul-TUR-al?" she intones. I say, "No, Residential-Agricultural."

The LO then gets on the phone to call someone (smarter than her, presumably) to ask: "can we GIVE a loan on property that's part AGRICULTURAL?!"

I kid you not. The answer, according to her: "OK, I guess we can help you, but only because of your excellent credit." We told her "thanks, but no thanks" and went with an agricultural (read: non-development) lender.

[NMDemDist2]

25. When I was in college in Stockton CA in the late 70s my biology professor

RANTED regularly about paving over the land. He must be gone now, he was in his late 50s then, but knew what he was seeing and tried to educate us 30 years ago to fight the blight we see today

:hug:

[OnionPatch]

26. We are in the same situation here

Out here near Banning and Beaumont, there is a little town called Cherry Valley, where every house has an acre and a horse out back. (Or chickens or even llamas!) This area has been growing by leaps and bounds. Housing subdivisions and shopping centers are popping up everywhere. Beaumont and Banning are constantly trying to "annex" us into their towns. As soon as that happens, zoning will change. Already lots are being subdivided. Soon these "urbanites" will be complaining about the smell and/or the "road apples." People here are very worried that our lifestyle will change dramatically if we don't fight back.

We have a good group here, CVAN (Cherry Valley Acres and Neighbors) that tries very hard to keep this from happening. They attend all relative meetings and file lawsuits, etc. like you said. I support them as much as I can. They get bashed by the local news media constantly as "elitists." I guess if you own an acre in these parts you're an "elitist" although most of us are just hobby farmers.

I wish you luck in your fight. Wish us luck with ours!

[MuseRider]

27. Hey Joe

I hope you were able to rest last night.

I should have told you, as an amusement, that just south of me there is a little place on the road called Hooterville. Not Mayberry but still. It is about 6 miles south and is actually a garden center complete with a resident pig. Arnold the pig died in 2000 but they now have a rescue pig. Now this would really be nothing of consequence except that 20 miles to the East is a place called Green Acres. Just for fun. I should probably check and see if there is a Mayberry in Kansas. :) I really will let you know if I find a publication that offers an idea for farm land in Kansas. I am certain there must be one.

[NotGivingUp]

28. They want control over all of our food and water...they've stolen our land...they are killing us.

We must stop them.

[Tsiyu]

30. I tried to outrun developers

but they are like cockroaches.

They tax the local infrastructure, raise value so that people can't afford the taxes on family farms and are forced to sell. Then they sell the land at obscene markups and make 'covenants' so most locals are priced out.

Not to mention what they do to the natural beauty of a place.

They just like the name 'Deer Creek' but they really could give a damn if there's a deer or a creek anywhere to be found when they get done building.

There are still some tracts left here, but they are disappearing fast. I wonder how soon Tennessee mountians will look like North Georgia mountains dotted with gigunda homes and posted so no kids can hike.

There are some good folks saving some space here in TN and people seem much less likely to cave to developers here but slowly the fancy shmancy developments are creeping in.

[The Backlash Cometh]

31. Well done.

But, what you're doing is pooling your money to make a stand and fight. That's not common everywhere else because the agriculture people are successfully being bought out (people eventually get old and start thinking about finding a peaceful place to live out their years) and what's left are small residential areas where people don't have disposable income, and if they did, no one has come up with an attorney who either doesn't has a conflict of interest because they've represented the city; or worse, the ones who won't tell you. they have a conflict of interest, and sell you out to your rivals. There's all kinds of schmoles when your only allies are small homestead owners. Because many of them have small businesses and they are beholding to the city and fear repercussions. So eventually, you get sold out.

I hope you wild success. Just keep an eye on your allies and figure out if they have a sell-out factor. Especially be weary of the ones who are older and have adult children who don't have roots in the area.