Cult of the Founding Fathers

[canetoad]

Full article here; http://www.watchingamerica.com/financialtimesdeutschland000040.shtml

snip
In America, the collective image of foreign countries is a mythical one, preserved as if in formaldehyde, handed down from the time of the founding fathers with the Kingdom of England circa 1776 unconsciously serving as the main point of reference.

This allows the United States to persist in describing itself as the freest country on earth, although by nearly every objective criterion, most European nations are more liberal and free than the United States. One only has to recall the repressive American culture of prohibition and punishment.

* * * *

I found this article fascinating although I expect Americans to find it less so. Would love to hear comments and opinions.

[Mythsaje]

1. I think, honestly, that America's "Freedom" has been mostly symbolic...

It existed as a possibility, as an ideal. As potential.

The theory was good. In execution, it's problematic.

My wife lived in Germany for eight years. Said she got culture shock when she came back. America micro-manages far too much, she says. We have laws and rules for everything. Europe, on the other hand, has CULTURE.

[Double T]

2. The WH and congress are a bunch of micromanaging maniacs.

American 'freedom' is only an illusion.

[Mythsaje]

3. And, unfortunately, it ain't just the Repugs...

Not to mention all the different agencies that get to pass rules by which we must abide. That's not in the least bit democratic.

[canetoad]

5. I find it hard to reconcile

The bile and whingeing about FuckFeatures*Bush with the almost billious and sickly patriotism of Independence day. The 'God I love this country' threads with the venom directed at say, Cindy Sheehan.

I agree with the article. You seem stuck in a groove of idealism with no practical solution as to how to apply it. I know I'm talking as an outsider who has never visited the USA, but I read plenty and you are a fascinating bunch of creatures to observe :)

[xchrom]

4. of course.

it's how you cover up some real uglyness back there and how you justify anything you want to sell today.

[canetoad]

6. Yeah, that too

but are people not waking up to it?

[xchrom]

7. ah well -- you're talking about american insecurity.

and american character.

especially since the reagan years --

vast swaths of america are looking backwards -- through filters.
embracing some evangelized ''truth'' that never existed.

i don't know the answer to your question -- but i'm not hopeful.

because progressives and liberals have had some success in the last election cycle doesn't mean that americans are becoming thoughtful -- or willing to accept modernity without insecurity.

i'm one of those who wished we talked about it more -- i can america de-evolving into more violence because of some of these things.

[canetoad]

9. Often wonder

how much attention the USA pays to outside opinion. I honestly think you are a fascinating people to observe. So full of contradictions. So knee-jerk about everything. So willing to spend endless time analyizing the quality of your own happiness. Over, and over, and over....

I don't know that people will ever become thoughtful while corporations are clamouring to control their every thought. There is a buck to be made in influencing thought and the advertising people, the churches, the politicians know it. It's all mind control, however mild the suggestive power may be. It boils down to fucking with minds to get a desired result - whether it be by making people feel inadequate, left out or insufficient.

Sometimes I think you cannot blame simple souls who know no better. They are subject to psychological techniques non stop, then you wonder why they parrot the ms media.

[xchrom]

12. what you have to understand as an outsider is that since reagan

there has been an intense scramble by conservatives to gain control of and rewrite history.

for example -- if you look at the founding of the heritage foundation by william f buckley and paul weyrich -- you would see the roots of what you're talking about.

in our history that event met with some symmetry -- the explosion of the evangelical movement -- based in the 40s and 50s -- that huge swath of people who willingly turned away from modernity and embraced fear as a motivational tool.

while it's true that we embraced materialism on the one hand -- we also embraced social conservatism on the other -- it wasn't all that compatible -- and has created a disconnect -- you can see it in our healthcare for example.

[izzie]

8. 'my country right or wrong' I guess works in this country

I would say it is true and one only has to think that what our 'founders' did and read were there for all to do and try. Many have and have made it better. It was 'thoughts' that once were out of the bottle and put to work that has gone around the world, could not be pushed back in the bottle. Letting people rule them self has sort of made it in the world and I am sure some one does it better than we do. EX. we have this silly way to put a President in office. Al Gore gets the most votes and we end up with our little ex-drunk with a silver spoon. That has got to be so back wards I can not even think how to get rid of that part of our Constitution.

[canetoad]

10. So right

but the founding fathers did not have media/sound bites and could not possibly have envisioned them.

[izzie]

11. We do have the amendments but who would start it?

The two parties seem to be dragging their feet on this one. Usually a third party comes along with a plan and one of the two parties grab it but on this nothing gets going. Why is it not put to the people running now? It should be on the platform of the Dem. party for sure.

[tom_paine]

14. They also could not have fathomed the power of pschology, PR, and advertising

and how, when combined with large group statistics creates a powerful and predictable form of group manipulation, creates a structure for rewriting reality that makes Goebbels look anemic.

[MessiahRp]

13. Pretty good article...

The problem with this country is many people will refuse to read or even consider it. It is objective and from an outside source.

Much of our problem is our history and civics classes in school. We are taught early on how great America is and we put all of our persons of history in a rather heroic light starting with Christopher Columbus. History classes rarely teach both sides of a person or point out their flaws unless they were enemies of our country.

So our country is raised not to be very introspective of ourselves. We are taught that America is the greatest country on Earth, that we do everything for a valid, good reason. It's why thinking our Government is corrupt in anyway or involved in the most henious acts possible is completely unimagineable and only the talk of kooks and conspiracy theorists.

It's why other countries, regardless of how good things are there or what kind of shining example they might set, are never as good as we are and are bad allies if they dare criticize what we have engrained as our perfect image of ourselves in our own minds.

It's why liberals who choose to question the motives of the leaders and laws of our country are considered traitors and those in power who damage credibility across the world or harm our abilities to protect ourselves from enemies by outing CIA agents are just doing political things and nothing more.

Regardless of the level of crimes that are committed by Bush & Cheney, we could PROVE they ordered 9/11, Americans would neve send their own leaders to the Hague for trial on War Crimes, or even put them on trial here. It would look like a black eye on our reputation and many Americans, not to mention most elected officials, just couldn't tolerate that.

It's that untarnished view of our country that keeps the sheep in line, paying escalating taxes for wars and unneeded Pentagon tasks. It's the same view that keeps the Government funding corporations and giving breaks to the enormously wealthy (after all, if America were evil would they really purposely bankrupt the poor and middle class and eliminate programs to help them? Nah...). It's the same view that prevents another Revolution from breaking out regardless of how bad things get.

We had our Revolution and got the country we wanted. For better or for worse we're stuck with it. And don't tell Americans otherwise... or else you're a horrible ally or a traitor at home.

Rp

[mmonk]

15. I'll have to read it but we're definitely not free

and we're definitely one of the most propagandized populations on earth.

[xchrom]

16. kick

[Solly Mack]

17. good read

[sinkingfeeling]

18. I've tried telling that to some of our 'America is the greatest country in the world' people here on

DU. I've even asked them what freedoms and liberties Americans have that other countries didn't and got no answers.