I was just told I need to study some history RE Dems are the party of Slavery. remove edit

[xultar]

(I wanted to be sure I quoted Cindy accurately. Cindy did infact say that Dems ARE the party of slavery.) My rant stands.
I'm gonna put on my Vulcan ears and throw some logic in the mix.

SO...the Democrats were the party of slavery so I must run as an Independent. If that logic is used then I should hate all white people. Cuz obviously y'all ain't changed since 1776 to 1850's. Ya'll are the same misguided white slave owning muthafuckas from 1776 to 1850s right. None of us have changed and with that said we might as well hold everyone accountable for the sins of their fathers.

So that's it. I hate all white people. :)

Just kidding.

But now hopefully you see how silly it sounds to use the fact that the Democratic party was the party of slavery back 1776 to 1850 as a basis for running as an independent in a 2008 election.

BTW I hate it when white people tell me as a BLACK woman I need to learn my history especially where slavery is concerned. Seems to me if y'all white folk knew so much about slavery you wouldn't be sayin that to a black woman. Just a tip to keep ya'll from gettin your feelins hurt.

Carry on.

[yurbud]

1. but you have pink hair. Does ANY race have pink hair?

[xultar]

5. I'm the sista of the bruva from outter space. Did you see that movie?

It was a HOOT.

[yardwork]

25. I remember that movie! We're showing our age!

[xultar]

38. Well, you're showing yours. I'm remembering from a past life.

:rofl: Buhwawawa!

[yardwork]

47. Ow! You got me!

I was underage! I snuck in! Honest!

Lol!

[harlinchi]

26. I did! And I recommend it to all!

Funny and strange. Harlem (and the Black community in general) apparently is more accepting than other communities!

[Iris]

27. then, please, tell us what the movie is!

[RaleighNCDUer]

32. "The Brother From Another Planet"

John Sayles film. 1984.

Brilliant.

[Iris]

35. cool. I'll check it out! Thanks! n/t

[LanternWaste]

76. It's a John Sayles film???

It's a John Sayles film??? Now I *have* to put it on my list of movies to watch...

[Madspirit]

77. Yup!

Brother From Another Planet is Sayles! I love that man.
Lee

[harlinchi]

62. Hello! It's a movie where an alien fugitive from justice, who happens...

to resemble a Black man, crash lands in a river in Harlem, NY. He drags himself out of the water, dons some raggedy clothing and ducks into a bar. The regulars accept him, given the strange folk they see daily. Hilarity and various political messages ensue! Joe Morton is 'the Brother'.

A better synopsis may be found here: http://www.johnsaylesretro.com/body-brother-synopsis.html

[rug]

110. He had the coolest eye.

[yurbud]

112. with Joe Morton from Terminator 2 as the brotha? No.

maybe you're Sista Hello Kitty.

That probably wouldn't give you much street cred though.

[sui generis]

2. well the funny thing is

that the great majority of southern democrats who were racist assholes in the fifties and sixties had a hissy fit and joined the republican party because their own party suddenly decided that human rights and civil rights were the way to go while the republicans were happy to be sticks in the mud, or at best, silent on the topic.

Whoever told you that has an agenda that has little to do with facts.

[yardwork]

23. Exactly. Jesse Helms is a perfect example.

Helms was a Democrat until the late 1960s. Then he became the face of the Republican Party.

[mitchum]

88. Strom Thurmond was another perfect example...and that has to be the first time...

I have ever used the word "perfect" in relation to Thurmond.

[yardwork]

94. LOL! Well, both Helms and Thurmond are/were "perfect" assholes

[rockymountaindem]

3. Nice post

I don't like it when people tell me to "learn my history" vis a vis Judaism or the Holocaust (I'm a Jew). That doesn't happen around here, but it does happen in the real world, and it is annoying. I can understand your feelings 100%.

[xultar]

8. And don't you hate being the only one...and when they ask a "Jewish" related question

they all turn and look @ your ass?

Well I had that experience as a black woman with black issues and questions in sigh school and college. Often I was the "only one" I was like we don't meet on Wed nights and develop speaking points. I'm just me. You wanna know how we all feel you gotta ask a few more than just one.

[rockymountaindem]

19. Surprisingly, I love it when they do that, but I know exactly what you're talking about

Growing up in the shadow of Focus on the Family forced me to keep on my toes and become knowledgeable about Jews and Judaism in a way that wouldn't have happened otherwise. I had to be able to explain what Judaism embraces and why to people who think that "Jews" means "Israelites" from the Bible. Some people are even surprised we even exist. In fact, being the "only Jew" has become a part of my identity to an extent that I find it hard to understand the idea of having a Jewish "community". Being the lone ranger has its appeal for me now.

You should see the looks on some peoples' faces when I tell them I don't have a Christmas tree. That makes up for almost everything :)

[AspenRose]

34. PREACH IT Xultar

*nodding head in total agreement*

Unfortunately, a lot of these white folk have some black apologists in the GOP telling them it's ok to do this (Jesse Peterson, Glenn Plummer anyone?)

[eppur_se_muova]

111. "we don't meet on Wed nights and develop speaking points" LOL! nt

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

4. Well, they were.

The whole point being, the democratic party's been has fucked up before, and the leadership's fucking up now.

Why be purposefully obtuse?

[xultar]

10. BUHWAWAWA! Please. When's you next show? I'd love to be there @ the beginning.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

11. You dodged my question.

Why play dumb?

[onenote]

24. but cindy didn't say "were". She said "are".

You want to defend her? She said that the Democrats "are" the party of slavery. And she knew what she was saying because in the very next breath she said the Democrats "were the party that started every war in the 20th Century" (also an indefensible lie).

[Vilis Veritas]

29. Ouch...I had not heard that.

I will refrain from further comment...

Peace

[xultar]

41. oops

[Lasher]

45. Here Saddlesore, read this:

Judge for yourself: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3365802

[Vilis Veritas]

52. Thanks.

I still love ALL people in the current PEACE movement.

That is who I am.

I was part of the PEACE movement in the sixties. It crossed all lines.

That is what we need today. I realize that DU is not the place to be GENERALLY for PEACE. It is very difficult to agree to disagree.

Peace

[Lasher]

60. I'm an old sixties hippie too.

I got drafted. Can't recommend the experience. I was there too. My most memorable gathering was a solemn candlelight vigil when Doctor King was murdered. But you know, if you and I were at a peace rally in those days, and if I pissed on your shoe you probably would have liked it very much. Good deeds do not give you license to perform bad deeds. That's where I'm coming from.

Peace, brother. It's still a good idea. :hippie:

[Vilis Veritas]

64. Peace united people.

And if you had pissed on my shoe, I probably would not have liked it, but I would not have done anything more than ask you why...

Peace is the true uniter.

(edited title, removed ambiguity...)

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

37. Again with the playing dumb.

Maybe she meant to say "were" or maybe "are the party that was the party of slavery."

But everybody knows what she meant. Same with the war quote.

Clearly she's saying democrats were the ones that presided over our entry into the wars.

What's indefensible, is this playing dumb, pretending like what she really means is that Democrats are currently slavers, and that FDR invaded Poland. And everybody, you included, knows that's bullshit.

This reminds me of the people who keep harping on how Al Gore invented the internet, knowing full well that's really not what he was saying.

[onenote]

57. in a contest to see who is best at playing "dumb" Cindy wins hands down

Either she meant what she said (i.e., that the Democrats "are" the party of slavery) or she meant she never was comfortable with being a Democrat because over 100 years ago, people who then identified themselves as Democrats, who are all long dead, supported slavery. Yet, she offers no explanation as to what made the Democrats the 'lesser evi' in her mind, what about the repubs was even worse than dead Democrats being supportive of slavery, what made her reject the party of Lincoln?

If anyone was playing dumb, it was Cindy.

[philosophie_en_rose]

72. Spin. Spin. Spin.

The words speak for themselves. And the fact that you're defending her bullshit is telling.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

81. I guess it does say a lot.

Cindy Sheehan speaks for me.

I'm against this war.

[progressoid]

84. Regardless of what she "maybe meant"...her statement is distracting and divisive.

It doesn't serve the peace movement or Democrats. Instead of us (the left) attacking them (the right), we're attacking each other.

These kind of statements won't get us any closer to getting out of Iraq. Instead we have more pissed off people doing a lot of shouting. No progress. It's actually stifling the movement.

[Vilis Veritas]

12. However, when the 'fact' is being used to divide...

then I fear there are other forces at work.

:shrug:

Peace.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

13. Who's being divisive?

Not Cindy. She's been quite clear on her position from the beginning.

[Vilis Veritas]

15. The talking point is divisive. Not you...chill.

Did I say Cindy? :shrug:

My reference was to the fact that I have heard RW talking points suggesting that same fact along with rolling eyes and wonderment as to why anyone could still be a Democrat...

Divide and Conquer.

Peace

[Virginia Dare]

20. Perhaps that is why there has been such a negative reaction here..

which really shouldn't be all that surprising, there seemed to be more than one RW talking point being bandied around.

[xultar]

Oops. Either way she shouldn't have said it. It has NO IMPACT now.

[Vilis Veritas]

18. Peace

As PEACE loving DEMOCRATS, we should embrace all PEACE LOVING people.

And right now we need PEACE.

Peace.

Edited to remove silliness...

[CreekDog]

103. Embrace peace, but don't suffer fools gladly

Cindy is a fool or she is diabolical.

It's clear she is dividing the antiwar movement.

[CreekDog]

101. She's splitting Democrats who are anti-war, even here at DU

Look at this thread for evidence.

Cindy Sheehan's handiwork.

Think that's going to end the war sooner or later?

On impeachment, is the split going to make it happen sooner or later?

[xultar]

40. oops..I edited. I still feel Cindy was being divisive when she said it.

[Vilis Veritas]

58. She was....

Now that I am up to speed on the threads...It was ignorant and ill-formed of her to invoke that talking point.

My fear is that she is being manipulated by factions that are far more nefarious than they portray themselves.

Peace

[Virginia Dare]

17. Why be purposefully disingenuous?

why not make legitimate arguments, rather than reaching back to the politics of the 19th century, which have already been atoned for via the Civil Rights Act, among other things?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

39. It was a legitimate argument.

Democrats fucked up before, some democrats are fucking up now. What's being purposefully disingenuous is misrepresenting what she was saying.

[xultar]

50. BUHWAWAWA! Got any tickets left for the next show?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

51. Got an answer to any of my arguments?

Or are you just going to keep spinning?

[xultar]

54. What arguments. Let me go back and read cuz I didn't see any. I still don't see any but

IF you're talking about that stament where you compare the fuckup of Slavery to the Fuck up of the Iraq war...
First off I ignored it cuz it don't make no fuckin sense.

Second of all if you want me to answer it then I'll say They have nothing to do with each other.

NOTHING. Those to fuck-ups are on different planets. Just like the caveman's therapist says in the commercial. "That just doesn't make sense to me." I can't wrap my head around you comparing the Iraq war fuckup to the slavery fuckup.

[Lasher]

53. Oh my goodness!

Many Democrats were once in favor of slavery (just as many Republicans once were), which was a mistake. Today's Democrats make mistakes, so it's appropriate to say Democrats "...are..." the party of slavery.

Now where is that Klan robe? I get so mad when my slaves don't wash it in time for the cross burning.

[xultar]

63. Buhwawawa. That was funny. Hang out with me Lasher. Let's do some

comedy on DU. No seriously. When we hit the threads with out style it will rock da house.

[Lasher]

66. I have just decided that I love pink hair.

Rant on, Sister. I'll be looking in on you.

[knowledgeispwr]

55. It's not disingenuous to take people at their word

What's misrepresentation is taking someone's words and reinterpreting them into something more palatable. That's called spin. Ms. Sheehan is perfectly capable of clarifying her statements her self without people making assumptions for her.

[Marrah_G]

73. Her words were clear, no spin needed

Her contempt for the Democratic party is obvious. Her obsessive need to try and hurt the only people that have any chance at helping to achieve her goals is bizarre. Why would you slander and lie about the people you are trying to persuade?

[knowledgeispwr]

100. That's how I take it...

that's why I don't understand the stance of some of her supporters.

[philosophie_en_rose]

74. Cindy? Is that you?

Otherwise, spinning her mischaracterization of the Democratic party is obtuse.

[Virginia Dare]

83. That's complete bullshit..

nobody is misrepresenting anything here, except you. She was trying to tie today's Democrats with the Democrats of 150 years ago, and that is just plain WRONG.

If she wants to criticize the Democrats for not doing more about ending the war, I accept that. If she feels she can no longer associate herself with the Democratic party because of this perceived transgression, I accept that, but to pull out that "party of slavery" right wing talking point bullshit is simply unacceptable to me. It was purposefully insulting and hurtful, and to what end, I cannot even fathom to guess.

I'm completely with Xultar on this point, and I for one am glad she called Ms. Sheehan on this.

[xultar]

59. There's no comparison between the fuck up of Slavery and the fuck up of the Iraq war.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

67. Well, there's some comparison.

:shrug:

[Vilis Veritas]

6. Parties change.

And that is a good thing.

I have heard that mantra recently as well and my suspicion is that it is part of a RW talking point strategy to divide the party even further.

Peace.

[Iris]

7. Well, we're dealing with the Republicans of today.

And they were the Democrats of the slavery days. So, why would you be part of a party that is CURRENTLY based on racism, sexism, and xenophobia? Do these people really think Republicans in the South are Republican because it is the party that ended slavery?

[supernova]

9. By that same measure, are they Repub now?

because, you know Lincoln was such a swell guy (nevermind all the crazies who inhabit the GOP nowadays)?

Neither party is what it was 150 years ago. :crazy:

And no, this white woman doesn't lecture to anyone about slavery.

[eppur_se_muova]

113. "Neither party is what it was 150 years ago."

Hey, if we're gonna talk history, let's look up the Democratic Republican Party, hmm?

Party genealogy is complex and confusing, and the names don't mean all that much.

The Democratic-Republican Party, founded by Thomas Jefferson and James Madison as the "Republican Party" (not related to the present-day Republican Party) in 1792, was the dominant political party in the United States from 1800 until the 1820s, when it split into competing factions, one of which became the modern-day Democratic Party. Its members identified the party as the Republicans, Jeffersonians, Democrats,<1> or combinations of these (such as Jeffersonian republicans).<2> Historians use the term "Democratic Republican Party" to describe this party.
***
Party name

The name of the party evolved over time. Party members in the 1790s called themselves "Republicans" and voted for what they called the "Republican Party," "republican ticket," or the "republican interest"; occasionally other names were used.<20> Both "Federalist" and "Republican" were positive terms in the 1790s, and both parties sometimes claimed the terms; so Republicans occasionally called themselves "Federalist" and "Federalist Republicans."<21>

The term "Republican" emphasizes devotion to the ideals of republicanism. The word "republican" was used by most Americans in the late 18th century to desceribe the new nation's political values, especially its devotion to opposition to corruption, elitism, and monarchies;<22> Jefferson used the term "Republican Party," meaning those in Congress who were his allies, and supported the existing republican Constitution, in a letter to Washington as early as May 1792.<23> From 1794 through 1823, Jefferson and Madison routinely used the term "republican" and the "Republican party."<24><25><26><27><28>
***
Claims to the party's heritage

The Democratic Party is often called "the party of Jefferson," while the modern Republican Party is often called "the party of Lincoln." The modern party system with a liberal, economically populist Democratic Party and a conservative, free market-oriented Republican Party did not arise until the early twentieth century, when the Republican Party divided into a conservative wing and a progressive or Bull Moose wing, which coalesced with the Democrats in the New Deal.
***
The Jacksonians held their first national convention as the "Republican Party" in 1832.<42> By the mid-1830s, they referred to themselves as the "Democratic Party," although they also continued to use the name "Democratic Republicans" and the name was not officially changed until 1844.<43>

more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic-Republican_Party_(United_States)

The emphasis in bold is mine. I believe it may account for the fate of at least some of the anti-slavery Republicans.

[Virginia Dare]

14. Agreed, logic has been in short supply..

thanks for injecting some into the conversation.

[DemGa]

16. I think you have to look at where the conservatives

and progressives were at that time. Party is just a temporary description of the left/right paradigm.

[proud2BlibKansan]

21. My posts that prompted this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1312348&mesg_id=1312848

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1312348&mesg_id=1313252

:)

[xultar]

36. I like you. I respect what you have to say. But man...the whole slavery thing

sets my hair on fire.

[proud2BlibKansan]

43. LOL I was just going to reply to you in another thread

That I respect what you are saying too.

And you know, it sets my hair on fire as well. I am still just reeling over the SC decision on desegregation. We still have a long way to go in this battle for racial equality. Yet our SC just set us back a couple decades.

And FWIW, I DO plan on voting for the Dem in the presidential race in 08. After what they did to Brown vs Topeka, I fear Roe vs Wade is next. So I will hold my nose if necessary but the Dem will get my vote. I am very much in favor of people like Cindy running as third party candidates in OTHER races. I have been promoting a multi-party system in this country for YEARS. But until we have a SC that is not dominated by conservatives, the Dem candidate will get my prez vote.

[CreekDog]

104. Okay, I get it, she's jus saying the Democrats need to...

Not have been for slavery in the 19th Century. Then everything will be fine.

Let me borrow Cindy Sheehan's time machine and we'll go back and fix it lickety-split.

I just learned of this quote from Cindy Sheehan. I now think she is a moron.

[Blue Belle]

69. Democrats? the party of Slavery??

Riiight... just like the Republicans are the party of Lincoln. Remind me again how many Republican Supreme Court Justices voted to end public school desegregation a few weeks ago? http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=11598422 Lincoln is spinning in his grave over today's Republican party.

[Lasher]

22. I saw one or two of your rants on the subject in other threads.

:thumbsup:

Sheehan didn't say Democrats were the party of slavery (at one time both were). She said the "...Democrats are the party of slavery." I'm a caucasian Democrat, and honest, I haven't owned one single slave in my whole life.

I once heard John Conyers say that a black person voting for a Republican makes about as much sense as a chicken voting for Colonel Sanders. He's not the first person to say that but it rings true.

Keep up the rants.

Lasher

[xultar]

30. I can't get over that she said it. I take that shit PERSONALLY. I'm ANGRY.

She lost my ass. I never licked her feet but I respected her and her views.

Now. I see her for what others were saying an attention grabbing political neophyte wdoing more harm than good for her and her cause.

She should aplogise instead of ranting about how predictable it is that everyone is against her. IT makes her look like a nut job.

[goodgd_yall]

97. Same here

I was not ga-ga over her, but sure respected what she was doing and what she said, up to her slams at the Democratic Party. My respect for her views have diminished greatly.

[Strawman]

28. Yeah the Dems were the party of Slavery 2 or 3 party systems ago

Things change. Since the Southern Strategy and the disappearance of the last of the Dixiecrats during the 1970's and 1980's, it's been pretty clear that the Democrats are the party of Civil Rights and the Republicans are the ideological heirs of the Dixiecrats. Last time it was even close was in the 1960's. Until then Republicans like Nixon wanted to use Civil Rights as a wedge to divide the Democratic party. When that failed he turned to the Southern Strategy. Cynical Republicans who never really gave a shit about Civil Rights stayed on joined by their new Southern white cohorts, and the Northern liberal Republicans began to disappear.

[glitch]

31. Very insulting to the Civil Rights activists of the 60s. Especially those who gave their lives.

And it reminds me of the people who hold grudges for centuries, regardless of what present generations are doing.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

33. Republicans USED to be progressive

That meme about slavery and civil rights has been going around quite a bit of late. It's pretty pathetic, if you ask me, for GOPers to have to go all the way back to the days of Lincoln to find something positive about their party. I also can't help but thinking "thou doth protest a bit too much" when they invoke the slavery and civil rights eras. They're trying to get you not to notice that the racists now have a comfortable home in their party.

[xultar]

49. Ain't shit changed. At least Dems changed for the better.

[NewJeffCT]

42. Don't forget, these same white folks

were running RNC ads during the Maryland senate campaign last year that said basically what this person said to you - Democrats were the party of slavery, and Lincoln the Republican freed the slaves and that Martin Luther King was also a Republican and so therefore, African-Americans should all vote Republican. Blah Blah Blah.

I'm sure it's also been repeated on Limbaugh, Hannity, O'Reilly and elsewhere, too.

I mean, I was stuck in Freeperville, NC a few years ago on a business trip and had the good fortune to be able to hang out with a roomful of Freepers one day. (These guys - all white men - honestly planned their whole day around George Bush's upcoming appearance on Limbaugh!)

But, one of the items they spouted off was that if you were a minority, the Republican Party was the place to be - obviously referring to Rice, Powell and Gonzales.

It's primarily a tool to assuage any possible guilt some white people might have at being Republican. "These black people should be voting Republican, but have been brainwashed by the liberal media into voting Democratic! Obviously, if they watched Fox News, they would see the light and vote Republican."

[Harry Monroe]

86. So, did these guys have a circle jerk while watching Limpballs/Bush?

"(These guys - all white men - honestly planned their whole day around George Bush's upcoming appearance on Limbaugh!)"

[NewJeffCT]

93. it's possible

but, I skipped out on the opportunity to listen to Bush on Rush.

Some other choice quotes from these guys, "Bush's big problem is that he's not conservative enough." - "We had to invade Iraq, just had to" (no reason, just that they had to invade)

[ShaneGR]

44. Ok you, get to the back of the bus, and the colored bathroom is over there...

And you can't go to that school, it's all white. Also, you can't vote without 400 forms of ID and the payment of a large fee. WAIT, I almost forgot, you have to live on that side of town too. You can't work in good jobs either because there is no system in place to make sure the workplace is equal opportunity.

Darnit, I forgot, it was Democrats who got all those laws passed to abolish that.

[xultar]

46. Depends on the colour of the bus and the bathroom. I might be down for it.

Just kidding. Just trying to lighten it up. People forget I used to be a comedian so while I rant...on serious stuff and I may even be angry it is still said with a cracked smile.

[ProfessorGAC]

48. How About Something In Mauve

With beige curtains and a terrazzo floor? That would be a nicely colored bathroom. What do you mean that's not what they meant? Really?
GAC

[Lasher]

79. How many Sheehan supporters does it take to screw in a light bulb?

Six. One to turn the bulb, one for support, and four to make up excuses for what she says.

Thank you very much. You've been a great crowd. I'll be here all week.

Think I could make a living in the comedy business?

[xultar]

90. No doubt!

[meegbear]

56. You should tell her that she is correct ...

and when LBJ signed the Civil Rights Act into law, those Dems quit the party and joined the Republican party.

QED

[Vilis Veritas]

61. Nailed it. nt

[xultar]

65. So, go insult those muthafuckas and let me finish my coffee. Zactly.

[philosophie_en_rose]

68. Damned idiots, then.

And why would anyone supporting a person that thinks the Democrats ARE the party of slavery be on this site?

[Marrah_G]

70. Great post !

:applause:

[ryanus]

71. huh?

[Lasher]

82. Maybe you missed this.

It's pretty much where she's coming from: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3365802

[mzmolly]

75. xultar,

you continue to rock! :yourock:

[Lasher]

80. I speak for me!

But I agree with you in this case.

Lasher

[Madspirit]

78. I Always Defend Cindy

...except on this. Why the hell would she bring up something that is long past history?
Lee

[Forkboy]

85. She threw a lot of people for a loop with that one.

:shrug:

[Cameron27]

87. K&R xultar!

I did not expect to read a pro-slavery party screed or a nutso libertarian isolationist rant from Cindy Sheehan, but I never thought about it from a black woman's perspective. She came across as being both condescending and insulting to the Democratic black community.


:yourock:

[xultar]

96. EGGGSACTLY! I'm gonna borrow a line of your post for someone.

[mitchum]

89. She's either being dumb or disingenuous in her substitution of "are" for "were"

It's a tossup as to which

[xultar]

92. I think it was a slip of the tongue. It has nothing to do with 2007.

[cgrindley]

91. That's ridiculous

being a black woman does not automatically instill you with an accurate knowledge of mid-nineteenth century American politics no more than being a white male automatically instills a guy with an accurate knowledge of the Eisenhower administration. It is a simple historical fact that the peace democrats--the copperheads--didn't really give a rat's ass about safeguarding the rights of human beings. But that's okay, because Lincoln's Republicans didn't really either. They just wanted a) a level playing field for capitalistic commerce between states and b) to hurt the south where they could. Most Republicans, Lincoln included, thought that Black people were slightly inferior and should be encouraged to go to Liberia. It wasn't a proud era in American history, but it all turned out for the best (compared to how shitty it was before). Every political party contributed to the institution of slavery. Every political party contributed to segregation.

I agree with you on this last point, the politics of the 19th century are hardly relevant... well... except for the issue of the Copperheads. When the Democrats opposed the war between the states, it kept them out of meaningful politics basically until Wilson. They are now paranoid about making the same mistake twice, which is why I think that they're not trying to end the war. They're not even trying a little.

[xultar]

95. It was ---"condescending and insulting to the Democratic black community."

Don't fuckin school me in Slavery. Simple. Don't do it. Don't say that I need to do it.

Just don't. IF you can't get that then I can't help ya.

[cgrindley]

99. Everyone regardless of race needs to be schooled in it

no one is born with any sort of knowledge on the specifics of mid-nineteenth century American politics, nor does anyone just pick this stuff up. It needs to be learned. Very few people seem to study the era and it's not covered in very much depth in American high schools. It's a shame but there seems to be little will out there.

[Marrah_G]

105. Breathe!

:yourock:

[Hidden Stillness]

98. But, "They" Didn't Just Cheer, Automatically?...

She is such a constructive influence. Quick quiz: Who said that Democrats started every single war, and called them all "Democrat wars"? Cindy Sheehan? No, the answer is that prick bastard Robert Dole, during the 1970s. Karl Rove and other Republicans say Democrats are to blame for war=bad; Cindy Sheehan says Democrats are to blame for war="good." It gets so that you can't even tell the origins of the quotes anymore, since none of them are honest or face the people directly--"too liberal for America," Republicans or "D"LC--or both? "Democrat wars"--Sheehan or Dole, or both? The problem, I think, is not that she is a white woman talking about slavery, (white women are slaves in many parts of the world, Einstein); it is that yet another anti-war activist, who does not give a rat's ass about anyone else's issue, has exploited it yet again, to get "shock" coverage, and with the dumb/arrogant assumption that the "subject matter" will jump to her defense because she referred to "them." If you want any basic historical meaning, though, all you need to do is re-read the great speech by Frederick Douglass around 1895, shortly before death, about how the Republican Party had already ceased to be the Party of Lincoln, and was already, even then, the Party of bankers and big business interests.

The current "anti-war types" go after one great Democrat after another, lie about and slander them--Obey, Pelosi, Conyers, etc.--stalk them with hidden cameras and microphones which the corporate Republican media then relishes, playing the embarrassment over and over and over again--yay! They wear pink and have crowns on and hold up signs for TV cameras--yay! This is SO much more constructive than trying to get the votes together to pass legislation. As for only attacking Democrats and never causing any problems at all for Bush, Cheney, Rove or anyone else, well, they are afraid of them. Anti-war types, because they are so uncritically "superior," launch these viciously hateful attacks on Pelosi supporters, etc., bust into tribute threads to the late Ladybird Johnson, tell people (on the thread by KzooDem, I think) that they do not have "balls," etc., they are not male-like, so therefore they are not worthy to discuss this issue, blah blah, again. As a matter of fact, many of the "most correct" anti-war posters are exactly the same names you find popping up on all the threads attacking women with just the same bigotry. There is no difference whatsoever between the "inferior/troll/brute" behavior of the anti-Sheehan posters, and the "saintly/superior/bringers of peace" behavior of the angry, slanderous anti-war types; sorry.

As for no one being able to criticize Sheehan because she lost a family member to this war, I don't understand why that doesn't then apply to that insane creep McCain, who was tortured during the Viet Nam war, but who is correctly booed and attacked here, now, for phony flag-waving support and excuses of Republican conduct of the Iraq disaster. Many of us have suffered the deaths or injuries of others for many reasons--because we were too poor to afford medical treatment, or good nutrition--but they are just not "as good," "as interesting," "as cool" as war deaths. Some of you who appear to think that no one else has suffered tragedy just as bad as Sheehan--with no free pass-- should read a Buddhist story called Kisa Ghotami, about somebody who learns the universal experience of death, which all, not just her family, suffer.

For somebody who does little other than frolic and posture before the cameras and microphones while others do the hard work of trying to increase support for legislation, some people on DU are awfully impressed with the media-play. Why then aren't you "impressed" with Rudolph Giuliani, who also postured and posed, while others were working, suffering, and not getting help?

Their oh-so-superior attitude, all while accomplishing nothing, doing nothing more constructive than a rerun of "American Idol," prancing before the cameras--and attacking with violence and slander no less, all who will not cheer--is what will finally kill any support for them. She's "doing something!," "doing something!," "what are you doing?" Let's wave our arms and attack Obey like Republicans do--but never face the Republicans and attack them, because you are afraid of them; "do something!," she's doing "something!" All of this, by the way, has nothing whatsoever to do with rising oppostion against, and anger about, the phony Iraq war, all of which continues unimpeded, TV protesters or no TV protesters.

[xultar]

102. BE STILL MY BEATING HEART...TRULY BRILLIANT. READ #98 - !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Marrah_G]

106. Wow

That was a really good post.

:applause:

[Sequoia]

107. Well, Cindy is wrong.

She needs to study her American History.

[BlooInBloo]

108. Obviously black folks supporting The Party Of Slavery are silly.

[Behind the Aegis]

109. Just for you! For such a great rant!

(See story in Pet forum)