Some observations about the Green Party.

[brainshrub]

Although I'm a Democratic Party activist in Asheville, NC - I'm live-blogging from the 2007 Green Party National convention in Reading, Pennsylvania. I'm the only media covering this event. :)

I've live-blogged events as diverse as the Sheehan protest in 2005, to the 2007 Social Forum. I love doing this kind of work since it provides a unique opportunity to study the Progressive movement.

If your curious - just go to http://www.brainshrub.com">Brainshrub.com.

While DU is a space by Democrats for Democrats - I felt it was worth giving a quick "heads-up" because they could be major spoilers in 2008. I'd like to share what I've learned, and, hopefully, start an internal conversation about how we, as Democrats, can have Greens in our tent rather than run against them.

Over the past week here are a few observations about the US Green Party:

• Greens are far more anti-corporate than Democrats.
  
• The Green party is an international party.
  
• Greens can tell you what their core values are, something most Dems can't.
  
• Greens are far more organized than we give them credit for. I came to Reading, PA expecting a few dozen Nader-hippies, and instead there are hundreds of delegates.
  

While the popular perception is that Greens always lose - the opposite is true. On the local level, Greens win about 41% of the time. While this statistic is according to their own numbers - even if they are exaggerating by 50%... those seats could have been filled by Dems. Furthermore, in urban neighborhoods they are already the de-facto opposition since Republicans don't reach out to those demographics.

I don't want to overstate the problem. Greens are a long way from being a threat to solidly Democratic areas. They aren't as "photogenic", they REALLY need better staging, they are completely ignored by the media, and, since their by-laws forbid corporate donations, they are perpetually underfunded.

Also, if you thought Democrats take a long time to agree on anything - my GOD you should see these people debate! (They work on consensus rather than up-down votes.)

I'm not trying to flame - but Greens are close to being a viable party on the local level. Frankly, the only reason they are not more powerful is because of restrictive ballot-access policies. If beltway Dems keep ignoring progressive values - these people will fill the vacuum.

Having said all this - I am still a Democrat at heart. I'm mentioning the Greens because it's a shame these people are not in my party - we could do so much together.

[ulysses]

1. kudos.

Interesting post, and thanks.

[Recursion]

2. GREEN

Getting
Republicans
Elected
Every
November

[HowHasItComeToThis]

9. NOW IS THE LAST CHANCE FOR FREEDOM

THE REPUBLICANS MUST BE STAMPED OUT.

[brainshrub]

21. Stamped out?

Even conservatives deserve a place at the table. A core Liberal value is open, two-way communication.

Conservative ideology only takes root when people are scared. If we, as a party, strive to "stamp them out" - we only make Republicans stronger.

Having said that, it does make me happy when a Dem wins an election. :)

[EFerrari]

28. So, what are you going to do to change that?

Beat up on your natural allies or vilify them? There's a choice here. :)

[Tesha]

45. You understand that that is exactly the sort of message that keeps Greens

> Getting
> Republicans
> Elected
> Every
> November

You understand that that is exactly the sort of
message that keeps Greens convinced that Democrats
(or at least, *SOME* Democrats) will never learn,
right?

Tesha

[katsy]

3. With you on that.

:applause:

[LynneSin]

4. I lost respect for Greens after the Carl Romanelli incident

A green candidate actually paid to be on the US Senate race in Pennsylvania by Rick Santorum & his supporters. When Bob Casey challenged the signature it was Santorum who sent the volunteers to represent Romanelli.

Greens should have denounced Romanelli from the start. They claim to be 'anti-corpate' and yet they were happy to take money from Rick Santorum & his supporters knowing full well that Romanelli was only on there to pull votes away from Bob Casey.

I know the Democrats are in bed with some scummy people but at least they never claimed that they were free of all corporate intervention. And I'm not sure of where that 41% came from because I am not aware of any Green in Pennsylvania or Delaware who has successfully won a race.

[lies and propaganda]

17. or them teaming up with Santorum against Casey last year...

that was the final straw for me concerning any legitimacy the GP has.

[LynneSin]

42. That was Carl Romanelli

I realize there were issues with Bob Casey and his stance on choice, but Casey is not as hardcore anti-choice like Santorum. And when you look at all of the issues, Casey is a far cry better than Santorum any day of the week.

The unfortunate thing is, until we fix the election process the Greens will always be spoilers and the scorn of hardcore democrats (like me) everywhere.

[RFKHumphreyObama]

65. Never mind Casey, they ran a green candidate against PAUL WELLSTONE

In what was a very close race between slimy Bushbot Norm Coleman and Wellstone, a true progressive liberal Democrat who represented many of the core values that the Greens did on domestic and foreign policy. They were willing to sacrifice one of the most progressive and liberal Democrats who ever set foot in the Senate so that they could advance their own egotistical interests

That having been said, I think America probably would benefit from something like the IRV system they have in France or the preferential voting system they have in Australia. I agree that third parties are somewhat excluded from the process of being more inclusive of minor party candidates. But under the current system, sadly enough, the Greens are in a position to play the role of spoiler and this is something that the Greens should take into account when determining their role in election campaigns

[Hell Hath No Fury]

5. I live in SF...

and every Green I know voted for the Democrat in both of the last two presidential elections. So many here get their panties in such a wad about Greens, but I view them as our natural allies against the GOP on a national level. I wish the Democrats would work as hard to woo them as they do Independents and the GOP.

We had a Board of Supervisors' president here go Green after being elected as a Democrat and basically shit on by the local/State party. We should be building coalitions with them instead of burning bridges. Even better, the Democrats should improve their ideas/agenda so that the Greens stop being so atractive to those dissatisfied with the party.

[NuttyFluffers]

58. i see them as allies as well

i wish we'd encourage them to ply their successes so that caususing in the future is a possibility. i love the idea of having them work the local gov'ts and build a base. if we can have every republican seat challenged, be it dems or greens, it means more spreading thin of GOP moneys. such continual pressure, if done, would be (in the wisdom of martha stewart) a good thing!

[aquart]

6. How nice that you're a Democrat at heart.

Which part of your heart? A valve?

[brainshrub]

8. The fleshy part.

;)

[BlooInBloo]

7. The Green Party is a wholly owned subsidiary of the republican party...

... Any "observation" that fails to mention that is deceitful.

[depakid]

13. Attitudes like this are simply delusional

and part and parcel to the reason why traditional Democratic values have gone down the toilet over the past 15 years....

It's also part and parcel to the reason why the Democratic party essentially became irrelevant in terms of public policy making- and to a great extent- why it's still irrelevant.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[depakid]

19. Brilliant "observation"

full of acumen....

The bottom line is that with every sell out of progressive values, independent and third party movements will keep getting stronger....

[BlooInBloo]

25. "with every sell out of progressive values" - Oh! Stop! The irony!!! LOLOLOL!!!

[depakid]

35. A clue for the clueless

a substantial portion of the electorate is pissed off at BOTH parties- and rightly so.

If things keep going as they have been this past six months, we can expect 3rd party candidates to garner a lot more votes in 2008- AND we should also expect that a lot more people will just stay home...

[BlooInBloo]

36. Your Concern Is Noted.

[Forkboy]

78. As is your lack of it.

[ulysses]

34. not delusional,

just lazy.

:hi:

[brainshrub]

18. > productive.

Not only is this kind of thinking unproductive, it's simply not true.

We have to stop looking at these people as the opponents - and start treating them as a voting block.

The reason Greens aren't Dems isn't because they don't think reforms are happening fast enough. They observe congressional Dems bleat about accountability, but they continue to fund the occupation. They see popular support for Universal health care, yet congressional Dems switch the language and talk about universal "health insurance".

And I'm not even talking about needed reforms in campaign financing, foreign affairs and oil dependence.

IMHO, the Green Party is bringing up important issues that deserve to be addressed promptly. Rather than speak down to them, we should encourage them to reform from within.

[BlooInBloo]

24. It's completely true.

[brainshrub]

26. Linky?

The Green Party is a wholly owned subsidiary of the republican party.

Linky?

[BlooInBloo]

30. You can search my posts - back around last election time.

[proud2BlibKansan]

85. What a lame response; go search your own posts!

And come back and post a link that backs up your claim.

[BlooInBloo]

104. No.

[davidwparker]

22. It's always WONDERFUL to see those who scapegoat the Greens

for limitations of the current Dem party. How about a swing back to the left so that the Dems pick up those citizens who no longer vote because they don't see the Dem candidates as relevant to their lives?

[creeksneakers2]

55. The Greens make impossible demands

Greens are a small minority but demand that the majority give up their positions and adopt all the Green positions. If the Greens could win on their agenda, they'd run on it against Republicans. They only hope to gain power by wedging off a portion of the Democratic vote and using it to blackmail Democrats. Even that is a dumb idea. It backfired terribly in 2000, yet they are trying it again.

[eridani]

76. The Green Party platform isn't much different than my State Dem platform

It reflects what a clear majority would rather have, but Dem leadership is afraid to ask for. And don't distract from this with bullshit about compromise. If you know you will have to compromise (because that's what politics is), whythehell is our leadership always starting out with the lowball offers? I'm not stupid enough to put an ad in the paper $3000 or best offer for my used car if $3000 is the minimum I'd accept. Like most people with any common sense, I'd ask for a lot more and negotiate downward.

[creeksneakers2]

83. Impossible demands like

Immediate impeachment when the votes aren't there, immediate end to the war when the votes aren't there and Bush has veto power.

Politics isn't selling a car. Elections allow for only one offer and then an acceptance or refusal. If an platform is highballed, it will more likely be rejected than one that is more reasonable. Even between elections, its important to start with the proposal that would get the widest support.

If the Green Party platform is so popular, why not use it with primary challenges in the Democratic Party? If you can't win the Democrats, how are you going to win the general election?

[eridani]

97. It used to be impossible to demand that Social Security be privatized

That didn't stop the Repubs from constantly demanding it. They haven't gotten their wish so far, but it damned well hasn't kept them out of power either.

Keep on demanding, and the impossible may become possible. Or not. But you will never get anything you want if you don't ask for it.

[creeksneakers2]

99. Ask for it?

They aren't asking for anything. The Greens are demanding what is at present impossible and meanwhile running against the Democrats for not providing it.

[eridani]

105. Who defines the WA State Democratic Platform's goals as impossible?

Those goals are similar to the Green platform goals. Not me. It was impossible to get support for women's suffrage or ending Jim Crow laws until those things were done.

[defendandprotect]

37. That's a lie --

and/or what proof do you offer that an anti-corporate party is sponsored by the GOP corporate party?

It is true, however, that the GOP gave start up funding to the Christian Coalition which makes clear that capitalism and patriarchy are underpinned by organized patriarchal religions --

and currently Bush has moved taxpayer $ into those religious patriarchal pockets.

[BlooInBloo]

38. Only in Green Party/GOP up-is-down world.

[LynneSin]

43. I have 2 words to prove you wrong

Carl Romanelli

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/01/ap/politics/mainD8J7EMR00.shtml

And btw, it was EXTREMELY blatent the support Romanelli got and he gladly accepted the money but ironically when he got tossed off the ballots, the GOP stuck him with a hefty legal bill.

[BlooInBloo]

46. Bah. You gave away the punchline! (grumblegrumble)...

.... Well at least you didn't give it ALL away.

[troubleinwinter]

53. From your link...

Records on file with the Federal Election Commission show the Luzerne County Green Party received $66,000 in June from 20 contributors who gave between $1,000 and $5,000 apiece.

The Luzerne County Green Party in turn reported paying $66,000 in June to a Florida company called JSM Inc. for work that Romanelli described as an integral part of his signature-gathering campaign.

An analysis showed that at least $29,000 came from donors who also have given to Santorum's campaign, and nearly all the donors had given to Republican candidates in recent elections.

Santorum said he hopes Romanelli makes it onto the ballot.

[Forkboy]

47. Stupid demagoguery.

[DancingBear]

52. Hooray! I just won twenty bucks!

I had "Republicans in disguise" in the "Completely Discredited Excuses But Still Part Of The Democratic Play Book Used To Keep Actual Progressive Candidates Miles Away From The Ballot" Pool.

Second place was "because of Incident X" - that got covered really early.

Like taking candy, it is...

[TahitiNut]

72. Only because Republicans are scarier than Al Qaeda.

The Politics of Fear sure is popular these days. :eyes: :shrug:

[zalinda]

10. Here in Syracuse, when we have an election

many times a candidate will have dem after his name, and below that his name again with a green after his name. Before 2000, I always voted the green line, since then I never will again.

zalinda

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

11. I'm a Democrat who has no problem voting Green when my nose rebels.

I registered Democrat in 1965, but owe no allegiance to any party. If they want my vote they can try and convince me that they're offering the best candidate on the ballot.

[davidwparker]

23. right on! n/t

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

57. Blah Blah Blah Blah We Know Already Tierra, We Know. Blah Blah Blah.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

66. Golly, more "critical thinking" from OMC.

I thought you were busy defending the hapless omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent, Gawd, from the infidels.

Apparently, skeptical thinking, doesn't fit in with your slavish devotion to political parties and deities.

[LoZoccolo]

67. blah blah blah blah same old brass band... n/t

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

68. Same old True Believer song from the yella' dog wing of the party.

[Forkboy]

79. Gotta love the responses to you!

They've staked out some well thought out ground. :)

[DancingBear]

80. That IS their well thought out ground

You should see 'em when they ad-lib. :rofl:

[proud2BlibKansan]

86. Oh you're BAD!!

:rofl:

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

12. K & R. Good observations -- thanks for sharing.

[mike_c]

14. "I don't want to overstate the problem...."

LOL-- it's not a problem-- it's an opportunity to vote for candidates who represent our real interests rather than those of corporations and entrenched politicians.

[EFerrari]

16. Greens are natural Dems, just without the DLC.

Dump the DLC and I'd be back in a heartbeat. :(

[defendandprotect]

41. Yeah, fear the "Greens" and not the DLC -- ??????

Looks like an effort to distract Democrats from looking within their own party for what's wrong --
and there's a lot wrong.

Your main battle is between DLC Democrats and progressive Democrats --

Let's hear more about that before we try to blame others for the failures of the Democratic Party!!!

[EFerrari]

44. I didn't say anything about fearing the Greens.

I just honestly said what it would take for me to come back. :shrug:

[davidwparker]

20. "it's a shame these people are not in my party" - many probably were,

but left it for the Greens or Independents when the Dems starting moving to the right.

Depending on how impeachment goes, I'm moving to Independent/Green myself. If there is no impeachment, I'll only vote for Dems who are like Kucinich or Edwards or write in a Green or leave it blank. No more DINO's.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

59. Voting For A Green Is Idiotic. It Shows A Complete Lack Of Critical Thinking Skills.

But if you want to subject yourself to such misguided, ineffective and dangerous ideals, I can't stop ya.

[Hissyspit]

27. Good to see you again, Brainshrub! n/t

[brainshrub]

29. I have a full-time job now.

Seriously cuts into my DU time. :(

Good to see you to. :toast:

[mmonk]

31. You won't get them if they are dedicated or

see no or enough difference between the parties on the national level races such as for president. They can only be scared into voting dem. Our party is heading in the wrong direction currently to pick many of them off as the party is talking about the winning presidential candidate's platform more or less being determined by the DLC. We'll see later if the DLC is just blowing smoke or not.

[Name removed]

32. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[redwitch]

33. My husband is Green.

He is also in Reading. My husband is one of the brightest and most compassionate people I have ever known. I assure you he, and others like him, are NOT the enemy.

[brainshrub]

40. Have him introduce himself to me.

I'm in the back of the Plenary Session.

[Wiley50]

62. He's in Reading?

Wow, I wish I could get I could get a gig in Reading.
I'm really very good at it.

I'm not good at all in Arithmetic
and in Social Studies they keep saying that I'm a Commie
I don't do Show and Tell anymore
cause they kept threatening to have me arrested

So, I'm stuck here in Recess
I have a lot of fun goofing off
but I wish I could be of more use
and it doesn't pay anything
and, that bully, Mark keeps
trying to make me eat dirt

Must be real nice to be in Reading


( The above is a comedic interlude to break the tension
that is so brittle that it could shatter into shards.
It has no bearing on politics
or anything else and devoid of any real meaning.
So fighters, have a drink , a wet towel and come out for the next round)

[redwitch]

77. LOL

Recess was always a bit scary.

[Vidar]

39. Good post

[Nikki Stone1]

48. Who funds the Greens in other countries like Germany?

I remember when the Green party first came here in the 1980's. A German woman I knew just shook her head and told me she didn't trust them in Germany and she didn't trust them here.

[ikojo]

94. In Germany, there is a parliementary system

so the Greens like all other parties over there get funding based upon the percentage of votes they get in the election. If we had a parliamentary system here in the US, more voices would be heard and maybe the middle and poor classes would not be ignored by the moneyed elite (such as Hillary).

People either sit out elections or seek third parties when their concerns are ignored. The big difference between the Republicans and the Dems is this: the Republicans listen to their base of religious fanatics whereas the Democrats ignore their alleged base of working people while pursuing free trade for capital

[eridani]

49. They are viable locally to the extent that they take electoral politics seriously

In my neck of the woods the Greens can't decide whether they are a social movement or a political party. They don't have any Precinct Committee officers and have never attempted to put together a voterfile. Their state convention is smaller than my monthly Dem Legislative District meeting. Not that being a social movement is a bad idea--it's just that it still matters who holds office.

I used to be in the Greens, and I don't really see any difference between Green values and those of Blue Grit Dems. Of course the latter aren't running the party at the top these days, but I think that can be changed.

[Jed Dilligan]

50. They seem either misguided or disingenuous

All the money they spend holding national conventions and running presidential and gubernatorial candidates, should be spent grabbing city council, county supervisor, and state assembly seats.

Think globally, act locally.

[creeksneakers2]

51. I'm very suspicious of this post

I'm very suspicious of this post because anybody who attended the Green Party convention would know that there is absolutely no chance at all of the Green Party supporting the Democratic Party under any circumstances. Greens got George Bush elected and they don't give a damn about what they caused. They have a national effort underway to wedge off Democratic votes again. They have zero concern that this greatly risks giving the keys to the country to somebody like Bush or far worse. Greens really don't care what the results are. They don't care if they never win. They just want recruits.

Here's what Greens are saying:

START

The Party's Over: Democratic Party is a lost cause for voters opposed to the Iraq War
Green Party of the United States
www.gp.org

Wednesday, June 6, 2007

Contacts:
Scott McLarty, Media Coordinator, 202-518-5624, [e-mail]
Starlene Rankin, Media Coordinator, 916-995-3805, [e-mail]

The Party's Over: Greens call Democratic Party a lost cause for voters opposed to the Iraq War

Democratic Congress members' capitulation on war funding strips away illusion that Dems oppose the Bush agenda, say Greens

Greens appeal to antiwar voters: stop wasting your votes, support and join a real antiwar party

WASHINGTON, DC -- Green Party leaders, preparing for the party's 2007 national meeting in Reading, Pennsylvania, July 12-15, called the Democratic Party a lost cause for Americans who oppose the Iraq War, and urged antiwar voters to support and join the Green Party as the 2008 election year approaches.

Greens said the vote in Congress for full funding of the war amounted to a betrayal of Americans who voted Democrat in 2004 and 2006 in the hopes that a Democratic Congress would work for withdrawal of US troops. According to a CBS/NYT poll released last week, only 23% of the public approves of the way George Bush is handling the war in Iraq.

Carl Romanelli, 2006 Pennsylvania Green candidate for the US Senate:
"Electing Democrats means supporting the Iraq War. The Green Party is appealing to all antiwar Americans who have voted Democrat because they want an end to the war: stop wasting your votes, and help us build a real opposition party!"

END

Carl Romanelli is the same Green who took Rick Santorums money to try to undermine Casey and get Santorum elected. The Greens around here said the party had nothing to do with Romanelli but apparently he's well established in the party still. Who are the Greens going to help?

Here's more of them:

http://www.gp.org/press/pr_2007_06_06.shtml

Click here to go back to the main forums.

If you have any questions, please contact the site administrator.
Click here to go back to previous page.

[Disturbed]

54. The two party system sucks.

Amerika needs a system where other parties & Independents have a chance of power sharing. The lesser of two evils still produces evil.

[creeksneakers2]

60. I'm all for the Green proposal

that we have top two candidate runoff elections. I wouldn't mind competing with them or any other party. As it is now, anything the Greens take is the GOP's gain. Its a zero sum game.

[eridani]

73. How different do you think that center-left and center-right coalitions--

--in countries with parliamentary systems are? I don't see any important differences bewteen forming coalitions before elections vs. after them.

[proud2BlibKansan]

87. Brainshrub is a longtime DUer

No reason to be suspicious of his posts.

[brentspeak]

93. The number of posts or length of DU membership is no guarantee of legitimacy, here

There's been lots of "long time" DUers who were eventually revealed as Freepers and agents provacateurs.

[proud2BlibKansan]

108. Are you accusing Brainshrup of being a freeper?

[brentspeak]

109. Try not be disingenuous or twist people's words around, ok?

I was pointing out a simple fact: length of time here is irrelevant re. trolls.

[proud2BlibKansan]

110. And I was trying to point out that Brainshrub is NOT a troll.

I have been here a long time too. I know and trust him.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

56. The Greens Are Overall Worthless Extremists With No Ability To Lead This Country Whatsoever.

Fuck the greens.

[Zucca]

61. THE GREENS GAVE US DUBYA!

I kind of blame them for taking votes that probably could of helped up VS Duhhhhbya!

I agree F the GREENS!

Nader was so preoccupied with his own agenda he helped Bush put his through...DUNCE!

[IChing]

63. Kittens are dying.

[Zucca]

69. And what is your point?

I hate kittens and will gladly feed them to trolls. Perhaps you are accusing me? Anyway, I am bitter with Nader for screwing things up with his selfish campain. 3rd party stuff is nice, but not at the expense of putting in the likes of Duhbbbbya. If that makes me a troll...SO BE IT!


Nader should have done the right thing, and I would like to have him held accountable for some of this garbage.


If you are not calling me a troll I apologize, I misunderstand your words then.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

64. Probably?

I'd say it was a little past 'probably' at this point.

Their mass stupidity and lack of critical thinking skills is directly, though not exclusively, related to the 6 years of absolute horror we've experienced since.

[LoZoccolo]

70. The mass stupidity is almost enforced by their procedures in some respects.

I heard about how they decided to run a presidential candidate in 2004; they basically divided the room into quarters and had people go stand in the spot that signified their vote, by NON-SECRET ballot. I imagine that a lot of the saner people were frightened at the prospect of dealing with a nonsensical shit fit that leads nowhere from some of the crabapples and just went along.

Imagine being on DU with just the bottom 20% of people in terms of sanity, only they are physically in your face and can follow you home; that's what I picture it as.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

81. That's exactly how precinct caucuses work in Iowa

You've got to do better than that.

[proud2BlibKansan]

89. LOL!

:rofl:

[LoZoccolo]

91. Um yeah except that the whole gathering is not predicated on proving how extreme you are...

...as it is in the case of a Green Party meeting.

[ulysses]

102. so, you've been to a lot of GP meetings?

[EFerrari]

106. We're busted! We tear our clothing and scream leftist slogans!

:rofl:

[DancingBear]

82. "Imagine being on DU with just the bottom 20% of people in terms of sanity"

Cmon, don't sell yourself short.

You're in the bottom 10%.

(apologies to Caddyshack)

[proud2BlibKansan]

88. Actually voter caging and the Supreme Court gave us Dubya

But it is easier to blame it on the Greens I guess.

[EFerrari]

107. Thank you for appointing us to the Supreme Court

We'd like to thank our mother. lol

[EFerrari]

71. That's right. There are no leaders among them, us.

We're extremists of no ability whatsoever. :eyes:

[LoZoccolo]

74. Not a good track record if you ask me.

Let's see:

1. Bush 2000
2. Romanelli taking Republican cash to help Santorum

[EFerrari]

75. I'm not here to lobby for the Green Party, to educate you

on election fraud or to be insulted.

But, lol, this is GD. :)

[proud2BlibKansan]

84. My heart is with the Greens

They believe in the same things I do. And I have no problem voting for Greens at the local and state level. But I will definitely vote for the Dem prez candidate in 08, because of the Supreme Court.

Hey Brainshrub :hi:

[mmonk]

90. My feeling is the Green party will start diluting itself

as more and more disenfranchised Americans give it a try. They have people from all spectrums now looking to exact some sort of change, but those people joining are disjointed in ideas. Some are far left and some are Libertarian. Getting any sort of consistency in platform would be a nightmare. Don't take this as an attack on Greens. In the desire to grow, there may be compromises that don't work.

[ikojo]

92. SOME Greens were once Democrats

but the Dems long ago sold out to big money and cast their base aside, except of course during campaign season. Some people actually do get tired of being used and abused; well those folks left and for the most part didn't vote. When the Green Party came to the US in the late 80s those left leaning people had something to belong to.

The Greens are not a threat to the Dems. For the most part the two corporately sponsored parties have made getting a third party on the ballot in most states is prohibitively difficult. They lack the organization and now big name celebrity candidate to do that work. Yes, in some states they do have ballot status but that is a minority of states.

The OP is correct when he says the Greens are making inroads into urban America. Why is that? Could it be that in demonstrations against police brutality, at least in St Louis, Greens are among the largest groups of whites represented? Could it be that Greens, at least in St Louis, actually have black people in leadership positions and LISTEN to their concerns and ACT on them, primarily by protest and attending aldermanic meetings in St Louis?

In St Louis the Greens have yet to win a seat on the Board of Alderman but I know that day is coming. While the political affiliation of the Board of Aldermen may SAY Democrat, there are a few who are DINOs like Joe LIEberman. They know they cannot run as pugs and get a seat in the City of St Louis, so there are VERY conservative Dems on the board. St Louis is a majority black city where the concerns of the black population is second to that of the business community and the white yuppies moving into the newly built lofts.

What the OP fails to acknowledge is that there are two Green Parties in the US. There is the Green Party of the US and the Greens/Green Party of the USA. The G/GPUSA is the more activist oriented party while the GPUS prefers to focus primarily on elections, like the Democrats. The G/GPUSA works on environmental issues even when there is no election. One hears from GPUS usually only around campaign time. There was a huge split in the 1990s over strategy: between those who saw election work as only ONE way of change and those who saw it as the PRIMARY way to change things.

[roody]

95. The Greens are poised to win.

Though these are dark times for us, the Green Party will do better than ever. The Democrats should woo Greens and stand up for peace and justice.

[Bjorn Against]

96. Great post, Green critics should take note this is how you win them back

I know a great number of Greens and the reason a good number of them won't vote Democratic is because they are constantly being attacked by Democrats for standing on their principles. They don't want to vote for people who call them Bush enablers when they were the ones who challenged the election results in Ohio and tried to get Kerry into the office he rightfully won. A party which has very little spare money spent a good amount of that money helping a Democrat. We should be thanking them, not attacking them.

While the Greens have had their share of disingenuous candidates, from my experiences by and large I can tell you that most of them are very committed progressives. If all the people here who are attacking them were to reach out to them instead and try to show them that they want to move the Democratic Party in a progressive direction they could win many of their votes back. Attacking them will only keep them further alienated however.

[EFerrari]

100. (It doesn't make sense to me to turn on people who share

your basic values. It makes sense to TALK to them. :shrug: But, I'm not a political strategist. )

[chaska]

98. Until we get instant runoff voting (link below) I can't support Greens nationally...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instant-runoff_voting

To vote for a Green presidential candidate is to elect a Republican. Instant runoff voting must happen first.

[Disturbed]

101. The Green Party would be viable if people that believe

in their platform would vote for their candidates instead of Dems that are Rethug Lite. Nadar and the Greens did not give Amerika Busholini. RW Coruption, Dem screw-ups, a complict US Corp Media, a weak Gore campaign and the SC were a Hell of a lot more responsible for that Fiasco than Nadar.

[chaska]

103. Oh yeah, almost forgot, I voted for Nader...

And while I knew he would not win my state (at the time, Washington), or give it to Bush, and therefore don't regret it, I'm not going to take that chance again.

Gotta have that instant runoff voting first. Once we do the whole country's politics will change for the better.

They are using it in some states already, incidentally.

[LWolf]

111. Very interesting, thanks.

I've never voted for a Green candidate. That's almost funny, considering the number of DUers who respond to my posts with random slams at Nader, as if opposing the dlc automatically makes me a nader voter. :silly:

Still, I've been aware that their core values are closer to mine than the Democratic Party at this point.

I worked with a crowd of Greens in '04 during primary season. They were willing to cross party lines to help defeat GWB.