More Public Places Are Designating Kid-Free Zones

[RamboLiberal]

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After listening to complaints for years, the town of Lake Forest took action this summer and designated 25 percent of its beach a kids-free zone, leaving the adults to sunbathe in peace and quiet.

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Although beaches have always been considered child-friendly destinations, experts say that nowadays children are being seen and heard in places that always seemed off limits -- theaters, fancy nail salons, first-class airplane cabins.

"I think that there has been a shift in terms of this generation of parents," said parenting expert Ann Pleshette Murphy. "Reality is, kids haven't changed that much, but they are being taken to places that, in my day in my childhood, we were never taken to. They are around a lot more."

So efforts to promote kid-free zones are gaining popularity.

The Wishbone restaurant in Chicago has an adults-only room, giving diners a break from the somewhat chaotic family side of the eatery.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/AmericanFamily/story?id=3374997&page=1

H'mmm, good idea? Up-scale restaurants maybe not a bad idea. I know many churches had crying rooms years ago .... don't know especially with their emphasis on families if they still do. I'm not anti-kid as some here but I do think their are parents who don't take in to consideration others in public places when their kids are running around, being loud or screaming or crying at the top of their lungs. And from the messes I've seen left behind I'd hate to be the poor restaurant person who has to clean up after them. Hell, on this it's not just the kids, there sure are piggy adults out there - and no insult to the 4-legged pigs.

[LeftyMom]

1. Excluding kids makes life kinda rough for single parents.

I spend enough time away from my kid while I'm at work or school. He goes with me pretty much everywhere else.

I don't have a problem with keeping small kids out of really fancy restaurants or whatever, but it's important to balance that need for kid-free calm with the need to accommodate families who don't always have the option of leaving the kids at home.

[Bluerthanblue]

14. good for you-

children really want to share our lives.

I agree about the 'fancy resturant' exception (not that they should be banned) most people with little ones wouldn't choose a ritzy place. (and most parents i am friendly with couldn't afford it anyhow :P)

I'm glad your kid has a mom who puts them in a place of high value.
:hi:

blu

[LeftyMom]

22. I think it's mostly a function of common sense

most of the places nobody really wants to deal with kids are also uptight and formal enough they'd be a real drag for most kids.

[EFerrari]

31. My first husband and I designated our bedroom as a KF Zone

until we had two cups of coffee first thing in the morning and immediately after work. The kids went with it when they figured out we were much nicer after 20 minutes of quiet. :)

/typin'

[Crayson]

94. whcih is exactly the root of it...

Earlier generations were "locked in at home" with their children.
Today it's very important to be trendy and part of the society, many have to decide between that and having children.
But many want both! Younger parents now have children, but still want to be part of the society.

Which is what we see!
Young people having children AND STILL wanting to be part of the public life.


Why didn't weren't as children taken to the theater, or on airplanes?
Because it was too expensive!
And because social life was happening IN the family and rarely outside.

[The Straight Story]

2. We needs to ban us them there second hand kids

might give me cancer or sumthing.

:rofl:

[blondeatlast]

3. If private enterprise wants to do that, it's fine by this parent.

But not public spaces.

[NC_Nurse]

4. If it's a small part of a larger area, I have no

problem with that. They aren't keeping kids out of the whole place.
Why would anyone want to have grumpy adults who don't like kids around when they go out to eat
or to the beach? Makes sense to me. I've been on both sides of this problem.

[Zhade]

56. Um, just so you know, not everyone who doesn't want kids around is "grumpy".

I have a kid, and *I* don't really like young kids around, out of control because of their selfish overdoting parents.

[NC_Nurse]

83. I am a parent and I feel the same way sometimes.

What I meant was, someone who is more active in their dislike for having kids around...like who might say something unkind
to the children or parents. When I feel that way, I usually attribute it to my mood. ALTHOUGH, I agree that sometimes it is due to
lack of good parenting, leaving children without any idea how to respect others.

So yes, "grumpy" is not always correct. I apologize.

[calimary]

82. I've been on both sides, also. BTW, our church still has a "crying room"

upstairs, overlooking the main arena, and it's really a nice amenity. And the kids can romp - there are little storybooks up there and coloring books that they can play with, and it's carpeted so they can crawl around, and they do. And harried parents can sit there and relax while Mass is going on. When mine were toddlers, I took them in there every time. There's one added advantage for the addled parent, too. NOBODY in that room cares or gives you a "look" when you're not paying attention or following along with the Mass. Sometimes you're too busy watching the little helicopters, and at other times, you're just zoning out a little while they're over there in a pile, reading and/or wrestling because they just tire you out. I always appreciated that, myself. It wasn't just a "Cry Room," it was a "Non-judgmentalism Room."

[zabet]

5. Private owned enterprises doing this, I have no problem with.

Then again, I do not like children, I just tolerated mine 'til they left. :rofl:

[SoCalDem]

6. I enjoyed them when they were little, but I LOVE my empty nest

i think with so many parents working away from home so many hours a week, parents feel guilty when they do NOT take the kids, but when Mom & dad are not the ones "teaching" them the daily manners, it's easy to see what they may not behave that well

I was lucky enough to be a stay-at-home , so when we went out we usually got a sitter without a pang of guilt.

When we DID take them, the rule was.. act up ONCE, and we are outtathere:) After a few times of leaving , they got the message. We always let them pick out their dessert FIRST, but if they misbehaved, we cancelled it :evilgrin:.. To get dessert, they HAD to be quiet during dinner.

[zabet]

18. I realize that many families have 2 working parents so..

together family time is hard to come by.
I can remember as a child, when my folks had company, all 5 of us kids were
marched out, introduced and then sent back either to our rooms or outside to
entertain ourselves and we had better not even think about interupting the
adults. Geez, even 'stinky' was a bad word in our house.

When I look at how strict I was raised, and even though I worked, my kids
knew better than to act out in public, it appalls me that so many younger
parents do not have any control of their kids. They try to plead and cajole
where I would threaten to jerk a knot in them so to speak.

Momma always said, "Act like you got some raisin', even if you ain't".

[Sanctified]

7. Interesting that they will deny the public form public places.

I think it's fine for private business to do this but definitely think what Lake Forest did was wrong.

[Coventina]

85. Well, some public parks no longer allow adults without children

So I guess it goes both ways.

[AlCzervik]

8. they would have much better off naming the other 75% "Children and parents only"

or something along those lines. "kid free zones" sounds like what it is and quite frankly it's a public place supported by public tax dollars so it shouldn't exclude anyone.

[bbgrunt]

41. when those kids pay taxes, they can make use of the whole beach.

seriously, the taxation argument really is a bit grating. People with no children pay taxes disproportionately. They pay for education of other's children. They do not get the tax breaks for dependents., etc. While I am not against the idea of a commons where everyone shares responsibilities for things like education, it is a bit ironic that the tax argument is then used against singles or other individuals who do not want to share every aspect of the childrearing experience.

[PassingFair]

63. You were a child once too, you know.

It is a temporary state.

We ALL pay for the regeneration of the race,
whether we reproduce or not.

You do not live in a vacuum.

[pnwmom]

69. I think s/he forgot that. Anybody old enough to complain about

the annoyance of children has already had his or her turn at annoying adults. Now it's time for the new generation.

[pnwmom]

68. Their parents pay social security taxes to support the elderly

and they and their children will in all likelihood not have the same benefit themselves. There will always be aspects of a communal society -- even one as unprogressive as ours -- that might not seem absolutely fair.

You were a child once, and you used public facilities freely. Now it's the turn of other people's children.

[Maru Kitteh]

76. If you resent the taxes just see what happens when you don't pony up for all those little bastards

Masses of uneducated, unoccupied, children/teens/young adults from one side of the country to the other. Yeah, THAT'LL improve your life.

Share in every aspect of the childrearing experience?
Did someone on a child-infested beach demand that you show up at their kitchen at 3 a.m. to breastfeed?

[Zhade]

57. Uh, there's no Constitutional clause being violated here.

NT!

[pnwmom]

72. You're right. Children don't have full Constitutional rights, according

to the Supreme Court.

That is why the Supreme Court ruled FOR corporal punishment in schools, even when the case involved a 9 year old whose arm was broken in the process. And why high school students can be censored in their school newspapers.

But I wouldn't think a DU'er would be knowingly endorsing that situation.

[Bluerthanblue]

9. with only rare exceptions, I personally can't

agree with this prejudiced concept.

Everyone WAS a child once- most people will be elderly someday.

Those in the middle, need to remember where they have come from, and understand where they are headed.

Some wise words:

"We are always too busy for our children; we never give them the time or interest they deserve. We lavish gifts upon them; but the most precious gift - our personal association, which means so much to them - we give grudgingly."
Mark Twain

"If we are to teach real peace in this world, and if we are to carry on a real war against war, we shall have to begin with the children."
Mahatma Gandhi

"We don't yet know, above all, what the world might be like if children were to grow up without being subjected to humiliation, if parents would respect them and take them seriously as people."
--Alice Miller

What's done to children, they will do to society.
--Orlando A. Battista

The test of the morality of a society is what it does for its children.
--Dietrich Bonhoeffer

Age is not an accomplishment, and youth is not a sin.
-- Robert Heinlein

"The solution of adult problems tomorrow depends in large measure upon the way our children grow up today. There is no greater insight into the future than recognizing that, when we save children, we save ourselves."
-- Margaret Mead

"A child, like all other human beings, has inalienable rights."
-- Lucretia Mott

[Sanctified]

12. Just want to add one.

"It takes a village to raise a child"
--African Proverb

[Bluerthanblue]

16. thank you- that was the

perfect one!

:hi:

[pnwmom]

74. And to love a child.

1. :cry:

2. :grouphug:

[pnwmom]

73. Great post, bluerthanblue!

:yourock:

[Peregrine Took]

10. Tired of having kids ruin church services and fine dining. Parents are way too

indulgent/guilt ridden.

Many a time I've had a nice meal absolutely ruined by parents who thoughtlessly bring tiny screamy kids into candlelit, white tablecloth restaurants.

Also at church, a beautiful, sacred service is spoiled by running kids and parents laughingly pursuing them over and over and over down the aisles like its a big joke.

[Sanctified]

15. I can understand being upset at over a restaurant but Church?

How could a sacred service be spoiled by kids, those kids were made that way I think your god would take pride in his work.

[Bluerthanblue]

20. is it a Christ ian service that

is being 'disrupted'?

If so, maybe Jesus' admoniton to the disciples would be good to meditate upon.

"Suffer (allow) the little children to come unto me, and do not stop them."

and "unless you come as a child"?

:shrug:

[pnwmom]

36. Exactly. n/t

[JANdad]

17. Yeah...I'm sure that

Jesus said somewhere that none should "be like a child"

I'm sure that it pisses God off to no end that his children are happy and playing in His house...NOT YOURS

[wtmusic]

33. Sounds like the parents are ruining it, not the kids nt

[pnwmom]

35. Restaurants are free to ban children if they want to.

But churches, which want children to grow up feeling affiliated to the institution -- and their parents to stay involved -- are better off finding creative ways to handle the problem.

At my church, they have a family mass where children can sit on the floor around the altar if they want to. At other masses, children are welcome and the adults adapt.

From my reading, Jesus wasn't the kind of person who would complain about running children and laughing parents.

[nealmhughes]

86. It is very important to allow the children to come down below the altar rail to see what

the priest/acolytes are doing at the Eurcharist, and to have them explain occasionally just what they are doing.
Equally important is a sermon at the altar rail with the kids in a semicircle and for it to be at their level.
The most moving service I have ever been at was when I was Eucharistic Minister, and the priest's youngest son was sitting in my lap and kneeling beside me during the "up" portion. Beside me was a vestryman who read, then his daughter was in his lap. The priest's two older children were the cruxifer and the censer.
The altar rails were open and the kids sitting on the steps and in parents'/grandparents' laps in the choir stalls.
When we processed down the aisle we all had our or another's child by the hand!

[BlooInBloo]

11. If parents don't get their kids to behave, then said kids shouldn't burden everyone ELSE.

EDIT: Whenever feasible, of course. Airplane trips render the Subject Line thought infeasible.

[Bluerthanblue]

28. i understand your

discomfort, and sympathize to an extent.

One thing you might want to remember, it is a very RARE parent, who delights in their child losing it in public.

It happened to me once in a supermarket line. As a single mom, struggling to hang onto life, after just leaving a very bad marriage, fresh out of the hospital and feeling like a piece of worthless crap.
Grocery shopping was the LAST thing i 'wanted' to deal with , but my kids needed some food- if only oatmeal and peanut butter milk and bread.
My 2yr. old had a hissy fit at the check out line, whining, crying and trying to climb out of the cart-, i was trying to get us out of there as fast as possible. The looks of disaproval from the other shoppers, the impatience and mumbled comments almost made ME lay down in the middle of the store and just weep.- somehow i managed to get us out of there calmly (at least i pretended to be calm).

Now that my youngest is 14, he's a real help when we go to market. I hear families struggling to get through the 'sensory overload experience' that grocery shopping has become and i remember what it was like. I decided I make it a point to show compassion for parents who are forced to shop with little ones. If only to make eye contact, and smile encouragement. it's the least we can do.

Parenting isn't just for "parents". Every one in society has a role. Children aren't another species, or foreign beings. They are you and me, as we were, yesterday.

peace,
blu
peace,
blu

[wtmusic]

32. Blu you rock

Not only are kids you and me as we were yesterday -- they will be you and me when we're gone.

:thumbsup:

[blondeatlast]

87. Once, when my little one was beginning a hissy in the grocery line, two people

in front of me--one with a large cart--very graciously offered to let me go forward ahead of them. I literally did break down in tears in gratitude. The checker was happy, the customers were grateful, and that little kindness just made a pretty bad day go better.

People, a little kindness goes a very long way.

[pnwmom]

37. The problem is, some people have extremely little tolerance for

even normal (not spoiled or out of control) childlike behavior.

[BlooInBloo]

42. I don't see that. But of course, experiences vary.

[pnwmom]

43. For example, the flight attendant who recently ordered a toddler off a plane

because the 18 month old was repeating the words "Bye bye plane." Not screaming, not crying, not having a tantrum -- just talking.

[BlooInBloo]

44. Sorry - I was only talking about 1st-hand experiences. Dunno why.

[pnwmom]

48. And I honestly don't see any more crying or out of control children

than I did twenty years ago. In fact, I problem see fewer of them.

(Kind of like I barely notice pregnant women anymore, since I've passed that stage myself.)

I remember well how much of a strain it was to keep children calm and quiet during a long plane flight to see relatives. So when I see parents in that situation nowadays, I'm not annoyed -- just relieved that it's not my problem.

[BlooInBloo]

49. You must not go to the movies.

[pnwmom]

53. I do sometimes -- but not many that have small children in attendance.

One invention around here is special early showings for parents of babies and toddlers (and anyone else who doesn't care about the disruption). We had years of being unable to go to movies (hard to find sitters), and we would have loved that.

[U4ikLefty]

65. One "invention" around here is the usher.

that person's responsibility is to kick rowdy, rude & loudmouth kids/adults from the theater.

OMG what a great "invention"...lol!!!

[pnwmom]

66. You are right that rowdy and loud behavior isn't limited to small kids!

Little children don't bother me nearly as much as people who are old enough to know better.

[U4ikLefty]

67. I agree it is parents who are "old enough" to know better than

to sit there & let their kid scream, cry, or talk at volumes that Deep Purple couldn't reach with 1000 Marshall Stacks...they bother me!!!

Learn to be responsible partents & remove your loud-assed kid immediately, please. My mom did it many times (right away) when my sisters acted up & this was during some Disney movies where kids are expected to attend. I guess manners is a lost concept to some of you "parents".

[pnwmom]

70. Why are you using the second person on me?

You know nothing about how my children behaved in movies. As I said in another post, I didn't take them to movies at all when they were small, except in the exceedingly rare time when something we wanted to see was playing in a drive-in. I waited until they were old enough to be interested enough to sit still and listen.

But even so, OTHER people's young children don't bother me. And it's teenagers and young adults who are more likely to be disruptive at movies I attend. Even that doesn't bother me, usually.

By the way, I am well through that particular parenting stage, but I can't wait till I get to be an indulgent grandparent. By then you might actually have some real experience in parenting and you might not be feeling quite as judgmental.

[U4ikLefty]

75. You misunderstood.

Perhaps I can restate & be more clear.

Here it goes: I guess manners is a lost concept to some "parents".

Take note: I got rid of the word "you"...that DID make it look personal when it wasn't, my apologies.

...but I stand by my post.

[pnwmom]

79. Thanks for clearing that up, U4ikLefty.

I did try very hard to control my kids in public both for their sake -- so other people enjoyed being around them -- and my own (as an introvert who never wants to attract attention.)

On the other hand, for whatever reason, it's pretty easy for me to be tolerant of other people's children. I've known enough parents with real challenges to bear -- children with autism or ADHD -- that when I see strangers' children misbehaving, I tend not to judge them. Who knows what the full story is?

[U4ikLefty]

80. I can really empathize with parents who are trying.

I recall my mom red-faced as she rushed my sister (and the rest of us) out of the theater as my lil sis screamed (for no apparent reason).

I am talking of the parents who REFUSE to properly parent their children in public. This is not cool with me.

[pnwmom]

81. I can certainly understand how you feel.

For some reason, though, I don't see very much of that, really. When I hear a screaming child, I usually turn and see a frazzled looking parent, trying to deal with the situation. And I make a point of smiling at them, and the child, so at least I'm not adding to the parent's stress.

What gets to me is when parents leave their children unsupervised. For example, leaving a 2 year old (I'm guessing) in a playground area near a parking lot while the parents are off playing softball on a nearby field. This was in the days before cell phones, so when I realized the little girl was by herself, all I could do was stick around the park with my daughter (making sure toddler didn't hurt herself or go into the parking lot) until the parents finally showed up. They claimed they were watching their child from the softball field, and maybe they were. But they couldn't have run back fast enough to keep her from falling off a slide or being pulled into a stranger's car or walking into the road.

You're right. Some parents are completely irresponsible.

[dddem]

84. funny you should mention that,

I allowed my daughters and a friend (16,15 & 12) to go unaccompanied to see Harry Potter last night, and before I let them out of the car, they got the lecture about how expensive it is to take a family to a movie, and how people don't appreciate spending all that hard earned money to listen to disruptive brats all through a film.
I don't know whether they actually listened, but I feel that I would have been negligent not to bring it up (although I think they did okay, as far as sisters go, a 12 year old is the best police for a 16 year old).

[Epiphany4z]

13. as the mother of

5 let me say I like the idea. as long as there is a kid friendly zone too.

I like not having to worry if My heathens are bugging the kidless crew...and hell with 5 of my own sometimes I want to spend time in a kid free zone as well..there is nothing like getting some free time away only to have someone else kid screaming next to me the entire time.

[BlooInBloo]

91. As you tangentially mention later in your post, the little monsters can bug EVERYONE...

... when not under proper control - not just "the kidless crew".


EDIT: Clarified subject.

[Odin2005]

19. What a bunch of selfish, anti-family BS.

I think this is crap and I'm not even a parent. :rant:

[pnwmom]

54. Good for you!

My children are well past the stage where this is an issue for me, and none of them actually had a melt down in public. But I don't condemn the parents who are struggling; I'm just glad it isn't me.

No way would I want to opt for a 55+ only community. How boring!

[Zhade]

58. I AM a parent, and I disagree with you.

NT!

[yella_dawg]

21. Anti-Kid?

I don't get it. I started raising kids when I was twelve. The year my mom started graduate school. I cared for children, with only a couple of very brief breaks, until just the last couple of years. That's thirty five years of my life I dealt with children almost constantly.

What the hell is wrong with a place where things are a bit quieter, less hectic, and where I'm not constantly at maximum alert as a parent. That can't be turned off when kids are around. I've tried. A few years ago, I caught a movement from the corner of my eye and snatched a product out of the hands of a fellow behind me before I knew what I was doing. He lifted the box from my peripheral vision, and after decades of kids knocking things over, I snatched it before it could hit the ground. Even now, I can often catch a glass or dish knocked from its place before it hits the ground. It's rough on older bones, but I do it without thinking, almost from instinct.

There are dozens, maybe hundreds, of other parent things I do when kids are around, and I can't make myself stop any more than I can stop breathing.

Is it so wrong to want to take a break now that I'm in my fifties?

[JANdad]

23. Yeah! Go for it...

If the beach is your thing...there are Sandals resorts...and since you are over 50...there are a lot of "Adult Only" communities where you can live and play shuffleboard to your hearts content...

[yella_dawg]

24. Thanks.

But I'm disabled, and public rec areas are about the most I can afford.

[JANdad]

30. Well then

I guess you have to deal with the kids huh...

[Rosemary2205]

25. Well you guys will think I'm a raving bitch but I like it.

I like kids and so did Hubby - enough so that when we could not have our own we decided to open our home as an emergency shelter as foster parents. Almost all the time it doesn't bother me at all - watching kids at play is fun for me - but once in a while I just wan some peace and quiet without your special little bundle of joy screaming right in my ear or kicking sand all over me.

Of course there are times when I feel that way about other "adults" too and they few times we've been fortunate enough to vacation at beaches we've made a point of picking hotels that specifically do not rent to anyone under 25.

[wtmusic]

26. What about old people who drool? And people who talk too loud?

And redheads? And people with tattoos? And fat people? And skinny people?

They all bug the shit out of me. I can't wait 'til I can go to a restaurant and have complete control of MY experience.

[Zhade]

59. Since when were kids taxpaying citizens like your examples?

Keep in mind, I have a son.

[Sanctified]

62. Since when do you have to be a tax payer...

to be treated like a human.

[Maru Kitteh]

77. Pick yourself up by your bootstraps and pay your own way you Cadillac welfare drool baby!

Only TAXPAYING 'Muricans are worthy of public spaces.

[nosillies]

27. I would love it

By avoiding kid-free zones when with my children, I would be assured that those around us didn't mind child-like behavior. And when I managed to escape from my children, I would have a place to go to escape from ALL children.

I live at the beach, and trust me, there's plenty of it to go around. 25% is a small amount to sacrifice so that everyone, those who don't mind kids and those who do, can be happy.

Many playgrounds are off-limits to anyone over 12 who is not with a younger child. It keeps the big kids and the pervs from ruining the experience for those for whom the playground was truly intended. What's wrong with having it the other way around?

I don't see this as discrimination or an overt hatred of children. I see it as a smart business move and a COMPROMISE, one which I, as a parent of two little ones and as an adult who revels in snatched moments away from said little ones, am more than happy to make.

[bbgrunt]

46. ...a reasoned voice. nt

[LWolf]

29. I'm ambivalent about this.

On one hand, I relate. I really do. I like kids well enough, but after spending my working life taking care of large numbers of other people's kids, I like to be kid free after work and on weekends when possible.

I have been on planes, in restaurants, movies, and other public places where kids' behavior er...detracted from the quality of the experience. Of course, part of that is a parental fault. I don't know how to legislate good parenting, though.

One of the things that used to really piss me off was finding kids in the bar section of restaurants. Damn. If I wanted to be where the kids were, I wouldn't have chosen a seat in the bar.

I also see this as a sort of back-handed recognition that a life can be full and fulfilling without children. Maybe a first step towards zero population growth, the most effective, imo, method of returning health to the planet.

Still...there's nothing inherently wrong with kids. They are naturally energetic, loud, impulsive, and less aware of others around them. That gradually changes as they grow. It's a healthy thing for people to include kids in real life, too. People who don't like to be around kids shouldn't be having them, imo. That right there would help with that zero population growth goal. Those that do should be able to include kids in normal community/society life. I don't think we need to separate them like pets or zoo animals until we've civilized them, lol.

Fewer kids...I think that's the answer. Instead of creating more "kid-free" zones, just create fewer kids. If there were fewer kids, they'd be more valued in their cultures/communities, they'd get more adult attention and therefore learn how to interact in mixed age groups sooner. Their language development, intellectual development, social and practical skills would be better developed. There would be fewer to overrun the beach, the bar, etc.. They are a natural part of the "village" when they don't overpopulate it.

[Zhade]

60. Terrific post!

NT!

[pnwmom]

34. I absolutely do NOT agree with this in public recreational areas

such as beaches and parks. Where are little kids supposed to be able to let off steam?

Fancy restaurants and other businesses can set their own rules, but anything paid for by the taxpayers should be open to all members of the public.

[Kingshakabobo]

78. I suppose you feel the same way about "adult free" parks?

Many cities have parks that are off limits to adults not accompanying children.

[MrsMatt]

92. That is for safety for the children

In my mind, safety for the vulerable trumps convenience.

[aikoaiko]

38. As a parent with a child, I have no problem with desginating a minority of beach kid-free.

It means I can be guilt free when we run around and make noise in the kid friendly section.

[Tatiana]

39. I'm conflicted about this.

On one hand, I do agree that when one goes to an upscale or "fancy" restaurant, one wants to have a pleasant dining experience. This can be ruined by screaming or out-of-control misbehaving children. However, I am very concerned with the fact that people seem to be wanting to keep kids in an "out of sight, out of mind" state.

We were all once kids, you know. We were all taken out to places. I can remember the first time my mom and dad took us out to dinner when my father was honorably discharged from the military. We went to a really fancy, white tablecloth italian restaurant. This experience was so memorable and special to me, that I still remember it some 26 years later. It would have been a shame if I'd been denied this opportunity because the restaurant had some "no kids" policy.

That being said, I see a real lack of what I'll call "home training" on the part of parents today. While it may be because parents are not really staying at home with their kids and teaching them things like manners like they once did because of the need to work, I can definitely see more kids acting out in public. And by acting out, I don't mean exhibiting normal child-like behavior. Babies cry when they are hungry or tired or need to be changed. They can't talk. Crying babies in a supermarket or in a park or at the beach should be a tolerated given. However, when they are at the age where they can speak, it's a different thing. I can't stand it when a kid throws a temper tantrum in a store because he can't have something and the parent doesn't take control of the situation. I was in a toy store with my daughter when one a young boy (maybe 8 or 9 years old) threw a nasty tantrum, rolling on the floor and screaming. I looked at the mom who continued on down the aisle, completely ignoring the kid while he continued to scream for almost 10 minutes. I waited for some employee to tell that parent to go and get her child, who was really annoying the other customers. No such luck. My parents would NEVER have tolerated such behavior, ESPECIALLY IN PUBLIC.

[pnwmom]

45. I'm loathe to judge parents in those situations.

That 8 or 9 year old boy might be autistic or have some other very serious problem. And other than never letting those children out in public, there is a limit to what a parent can do.

[Scout1071]

40. Sounds great to me.

There are more adults without children than ever before. 75% for the families and 25% for the singles/non-children couples? Sounds fair to me. I would love that option at the beach.

[AllieB]

47. I would like the option of not having to watch other people's kids at the beach

*Disclaimer* I love kids, so please do not interpret my story as anti-kid, when it is definitely anti-bad parent.

Last weekend at a very large and not very populated beach on the Outer Cape, a couple with a 5 year old and probably just about 2 year old plop down way too close to us (eight adults), considering that there was miles of unspoiled beach available. The two year old is obviously fussy, so the mother walks off with the 5 year old, leaving dad to tend to the toddler. Dad proceeds to ignore the toddler, who runs down to the edge of the water, while dad digs through the cooler for a beer. The ocean here has rough surf and a nasty undertow. My family and friends watch in horror as the little guy just wanders around on his own for a good 10 minutes. Finally, dad calls him and begins digging holes with him on the beach and trying to entertain him.

I wish I could say that this scene is unusual, but it's not. It not only happens on Cape Cod, but also when I've vacationed in the Caribbean, Mexico, and Florida. My husband grabbed a 6-year old boy who had been dragged under water by rough surf in Mexico a few years ago. His parents were completely unaware he was even in the water! My husband refrained from ripping the parents a new one.

If people are so desperate for 'family time' and 'kid-friendly' places, why do they rely on complete strangers to watch their kids? I really feel bad for these kids. What kind of adults will they become-if they make it that far? We go to adults-only resorts now, not because of the kids, but because of the dumb-ass parents.

[JCMach1]

50. Down with child apartheid...

This is complete and utter rubbish...

[BlooInBloo]

51. Yah - it's JUST LIKE white folks being racist against black folks - JUST LIKE!

:rofl:

[JCMach1]

95. separation... it's the same idea....

and I don't like it for any group...

[Warren DeMontague]

52. I've been to the Beach on Lake Michigan in the summer. What they really need is a BITING FLY-free

zone.

Hanging out at those beaches during the day got old fast, but during my youth we used to sneak down there at night and get high and drunk, naked and screw. The lake is wonderfully warm come August.

Ah, the good old days.

As for disrupting your church service, don't worry. There's absolutely ZERO danger of me taking my kid, much less myself, into any Church.

I'd sooner sit through a five hour Celine Dion concert.

[RB TexLa]

55. Good, children are everywhere, it's nice to be able to go places and not have to worry

about having children making noise and stuff.

[TahitiNut]

61. They say "Kid-Free" only because "No Minor Children of Shitty Parents Allowed"

... uses more ink and such parents aren't tattooed - yet. :shrug:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

64. Sounds Reasonable.

Nothing wrong with adults having places they can go without the interruptions/distractions of children. Nothing wrong with it whatsoever.

[Canuckistanian]

71. Does that include embryos? n/t

[Liberal Veteran]

88. Well, as someone who had a movie going experienced ruined by a screaming child yesterday...

...I can certainly empathize.

Bringing a child less than 2 or 3 years old to the theater is just asking for trouble.

Listening to the child scream, talk out loud, cry, with the mother going "SHHHHHH" every five seconds was annoying as hell and just ruined the entire movie for me because I felt like I didn't even get to watch the movie.

[Warren DeMontague]

89. What gets me is the "parents" who bring the really small kids into the horribly violent R Rated film

I've seen it several times, it's just unconscionable. I don't know what these fucking people are thinking. I don't think nudity or foul language even is as terrible, but when you're exposing a 4 year old to something like "Saw" or "Hostel", traumatizing the little kid beyond belief, I think it's a form of child abuse.

There are certainly a lot of people in this country who need to buy a fucking clue. I see them walking around all the time, vacant, bug-eyed expressions on their faces. It's like their heads are tuned to one radio station, constantly: "Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh". If they vote at all, I suspect I know which party they vote for.

[AllieB]

93. These parents don't understand the harm they're doing by exposing their children to violence

at an early age. I agree that it's a form of child abuse.

[Fierce]

90. Great! When can we ban dumbass adults from the beach?

You know, the ones who loudly natter on about soap operas when I'm trying to read, or the ones who argue with their spouses so I can hear, or the screamy twentysomethings flirting and drinking and making out all distracting, or the ones who shake off their towels and get sand all over me, or the ones who are just rude to other people in general? When can we ban THEM?