Color me naive, ignorant, uninformed....

[Control-Z]

I stand behind Nancy Pelosi and it makes me sad and sick to see her being kicked around.

I don't envy her position. But I would love to have what it must have taken for her to rise up to and stand where she does today. She is a politician. She is educated. She is experienced. She's worked her way to the top. And, she is a progressive.

We, as progressives, are about humanity.
We, as progressives, are about diplomacy.
We, as progressives, are about turning our very corrupt government and damaged country around.

I don't know what all is on Nancy's plate - but I imagine there is no platter large enough to hold it all. Her calm, rational, and confident diplomacy is what we wanted and asked for. Now we want Madame Speaker to take on the persona of a repug child?

I, for one, have more confidence in the slowly turning wheels of justice than overnight justice delivered via kicking and screaming. Corruption can happen quickly. Justice takes her time.

We've turned the House and we've turned the Senate.

Democracy IS at work.


One last thing - Had Nancy put impeachment on the table straight out of the gate, the "power grabbing Speaker vies for higher seat, etc..." puke spin would have demeaned her authority, and diminished her capacity, as Speaker, to effect change, imho.

[BlooInBloo]

1. Color you the party of slavery. :)

[Control-Z]

4. slavery?

wow

[philosophie_en_rose]

8. good one, Ann Coulter.

;)

[BlooInBloo]

9. Bzzt! Cindy Sheehan.

[Evergreen Emerald]

2. I felt the same way about Pelosi

Strong, independant, and willing to stand up to the neo-cons. But, she proved us wrong. It was up to the dems to FIGHT. She was in charge. And she caved.

[Control-Z]

20. How did she prove us wrong?

and in 6 short months?

[Evergreen Emerald]

30. the funding bill

[KharmaTrain]

64. The Funding Bill Died In The Senate

It's passed out of the House TWICE. Ya know, the place Pelosi works.

[Evergreen Emerald]

67. Look again at the history of the bill.

[SammyWinstonJack]

3. With you 100% . nt

[Time for change]

5. Bush and Cheney have essentially declared a dictatorship

They torture and abuse our prisoners, hiding them away in dungeons without access to family or any legal process, while they are subjected to daily torture.

They lied us into war.

They spy on US citizens without warrents, which is against our laws and our Constitution.

Any law Bush doesn't like, he just signs a signing statement to nullify it, rather than going through the trouble of a veto.

They use our tax dollars to hire propagandists to pose as journalists.

They refuse to submit to Congressional subpoenas.

I could go on and on, but do you not think that it is worth holding impeachment hearings in an attempt to establish the rule of law in our country? Why would it be considered "overnight justice" to hold impeachment hearings to consider impeaching the most lawless president in our history?

[Control-Z]

7. Not saying impeachment hearings

would be considered overnight justice. Just saying that impeachment is something to be orchestrated with great thought and consideration. I'm willing to let the legals and pros take the steps and time needed for effective change.

[Time for change]

29. I agree -- It should be orchestrated with great thought and consideration

But it's been half a year. Conyers already did a full scale investigation that uncovered multiple impeachable offenses before the Dems took over Congress. I don't see why when tons of evidence is staring us in the face that it should take six months of thought and consideration before even beginning impeachment hearings.

[Throwing Stones]

41. great thought and consideration

So, if there's a murderer loose in your town, a murderer who has gone in front of cameras and bragged about his murdering ways, how would you feel if the the local district attorney chose to orchestrate an indictment with great thought and consideration while the murderer continued to run loose?

[Control-Z]

51. Great analogy

I would hope the DA continued, steadfast, to make the case and not fuck it up by moving in "too fast and furiously" because of outside pressure or to advance his own personal and/or emotional agenda.

[Throwing Stones]

65. Thanks

And not to beat the analogy to death, the murderer is holding a gun to the head of his next victim (Iran) and the DA has yet to even say that she "might" try to indict him. I'm just so fed up the gingerly little dance that's going on in the capitol - it's time for bold action to put everything out in the open and let the chips fall where they may. At the very least, it might wake up the vast majority of Americans who appear to have been sleepwalking through the last 6 years.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

6. What?

The equivalent of what you are suggesting is that a calm parent be very relaxed while his/her house is burning and the children are inside. "Hmmm... let me see if I can enter through this window and retrieve my babies. Oops, too dangerous! Maybe not!"

This is an emergency. If Pelosi doesn't think so, that scares me.

[Control-Z]

10. Could be inside,

blocked from the stairs and finding a way out one of the windows, or putting the fire out on the stairs, or...

[Sarah Ibarruri]

21. Wow, how long is the person going to wait? Till the babies are charred and burned?

No thank you. She's not doing what she's supposed to. I gave her months of the benefit of the doubt. No more month, week, or day.

[Control-Z]

24. The first rule of every emergency

is to remain calm. Acting frantically, without thought is exactly how babies get charred and burned in house fires.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

61. The 2nd rule of every ermegency is don't fall asleep or pretend nothing is happening

[Control-Z]

69. And there I thought it was

assess the situation.

[NC_Nurse]

11. How quickly it's happening...

I mean the coloring....

I agree with you , FWIW.

[Control-Z]

22. Worth a lot, NC_Nurse

6 whole months and no new America to show for it. Silly me.

[spanone]

12. Watching Bill Moyers changed my mind.....impeach now!

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07132007/watch.html

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

13. I am recommending your post because, realistically, I can't argue with anything in it.

Besides, if I were any better, would not I be in her position rather than she?

What I have observed is a resilient, intelligent, compassionate, persistent, patient, problem-solver from Speaker Pelosi. Naturally, there are always those who MUST HAVE MORE. However, I find her a woman to admire and look up to.

I figure, we did pretty damn good to have Nancy Pelosi as our first female Speaker of the House and I am grateful.

(wow, the keyboard fingers aren't coordinating with the brain, at all, tonight)

[Control-Z]

16. MUST HAVE MORE

MUST HAVE MORE - FASTER

[tularetom]

14. Watch "Bill Moyers Journal" on PBS and see if you still feel this way

speaking of the discussion on impeachment that took place last night. Both guests (one a republican) felt is was the obligation (not an option) of congress to impeach both bush and cheney for their total disregard for the constitution, and that the congressional Dems (and Pelosi in particular) were derelict in their duty by failing to act.

They both stressed that the most desireable outcome of impeachment was a change in behaviors by bush and dick, and an acknowledegement on their parts that their actions had been wrong. But I got the impression that neither felt that was likely to occur so the best practical outcome would be removal from office.

They further stressed that the founding fathers intended for impeachment to be used much less sparingly than it has as yet, as a tool for curbing imperial ambitions on the part of the executive branch.

The point is, it is Pelosi's JOB to not only put impeachment on the table but to lead the house in making sure it takes place.

As of now she isn't doing her job.

[snappyturtle]

42. Yes.

[TahitiNut]

15. God forbid a politician should lose his or her job merely due to malfeasance, huh?

After all, politicians have an entitlement to their jobs ... but the working poor DON'T.

Indeed. let's elevate the specter of impeachment to that of capital punishment - as though there were nothing more serious than firing a pResident or Vice pResident or demanding that the Speaker step aside and let someone else do the job better.

I really have to wonder about people who can be fired at will (or for smoking or whistleblowing) who work to defend the entitlements of politicians who have subjected Working People to loss of employment due to a whim.

Unreal.

[Dogmudgeon]

17. You don't think like I do. You're a TRAITOR! DLC! WHORE!

Yeah, that works every time.

Most of the outrage-shouters don't even talk to their representatives or senators.

I want to see Bush go down, too. But I want to see his name besmirched forever. I want to see his "legacy" overturned and reversed. I want to see the Republican Party reduced to a handful of seats for the next fifty years. I want the drunkard's anthem that is Conservatism to end with a heave of blood-stained vomit in a filthy toilet stall. And I want the investigations to continue for years after 2008, to keep reminding people just how evil these fuckers are.

Screaming "The Dems Caved!" and "TRAITOR! WHORE! DLC!" helps us, how?

Pelosi is our factotum; WE have caved, WE have erred in wanting her to be our Leader. WE are the leaders. By my calculation, we have to convince about 175 more representatives to vote to impeach the bastard, and we have a year and a half left to do it. And if we can't do it -- there remains an entire province of Hell to raise.

--p!

[Throwing Stones]

18. Yaaaaaaaaawn, I'm sorry, you were saying somthing dear?

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

23. Wow.

Now, that is sad.

[Control-Z]

25. Yeah, I was hoping

I had taken that all wrong. I guess not. Well, I hope it's at least bedtime wherever he/she lives.

[Throwing Stones]

36. It's past bedtime where I live, but I'm not sleeping

unlike Nancy, who's rolled over for the DLC and has, in my book, very little credibility left.

[Control-Z]

50. You on the right board?

Perhaps a little sleep deprived?

[goodgd_yall]

72. Don't ytou recognize the condescension?

A male, of course.

[Throwing Stones]

35. what's sad is that Pelosi hasn't done shit since becoming speaker

the only ones doing anything in the House are Conyers and Waxman.

She's a pathetic little waste of time, but go on with your odes to her; they're so entertaining.

[rockymountaindem]

27. Rude n/t

[Throwing Stones]

39. yes, because now is a time for pleasantries

Rome is fucking burning for fuck's sake, and little Nancy fiddles with her table settings.

[ellisonz]

44. WTF.

Umm..have you read the US Constitution recently?

[Throwing Stones]

62. You mean Art. II, Section 4?

last time I checked it said "shall" be removed, not, "may" be removed.

[ellisonz]

73. 67.

[Throwing Stones]

74. let the facts be heard, regardless of headcounts n/t

[rockymountaindem]

46. Uh huh

Shouldn't you be out in the streets? I mean, a discussion board for this must be for pansies or something.

[Control-Z]

54. Oh, and, btw

don't ever "dear" me again, you pompous ass.

[Elspeth]

19. I support Nancy Pelosi, and I think some people have forgotten how long it takes to get things done.

Watergate hearings took over a year (April 73-July 74) until articles of impeachment were drawn up. Nixon resigned within weeks of the Articles having been drawn up.

And this was with a Congress that had been Democratic for around 20 years at the time. Pelosi is coming in on the heels of the most corrupt and neoconservative Congress in memory. And she can't count on the Senate, which is being held hostage by Lieberman.

We're only 6 months in folks.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

26. I think some people are so involved with their own frustration they can't appreciate anything,...

,...anymore AND they demand so much more from others than themselves without stepping an inch towards walking in other's shoes. It really is pretty pitiful how too many behave precisely as the neocons' characterize: scattered cats (or something like that).

We hold ourselves out to be liberals (i.e. understanding, patient, problem-solving, endeavoring to better quality of life, etc.) while simultaneously allowing our passions to over-RUN the best of our capacity to overcome the problems we face,...we all face, together.

What's most unfortunate is,...the impatience and anger wears out so many people who are willing and able to invest, for the long haul, in a better future. It's too damned intense and negative when the environment is so focused on the negative rather than the step-by-step building blocks to change,...any change.

Clearly, MOST people are ignorant about what it really REALLY takes to overcome injustice. Otherwise, they would rejoice in every small victory in order to inspire and energize themselves toward another.

(rant off)

[Control-Z]

28. Yes, yes and

yes. Every word. You are spot on.

It is especially sad that some are unable to imagine where rash decisions could have landed us, by now.

It's a process - all of it, including the kicking and the screaming. Too bad so many are screaming at the wrong people, though.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

32. Indeed.

Too many screaming at every OTHER THAN the "wrong" people.

The "wrong" people are killing this country with their aweful ANTI-democracy, ANTI-American, ANTI-equality, ANTI-justice and fairness and hope,...ideology.

[MikeNearMcChord]

31. So I guess the Democrats are supposed

to fight a street gang with Marquis Of Queensbury rules. We have seen our Constitution ripped into shreads, a Supreme Court that wants to take women back to the dark ages, wants to reintroduce Plessy V. Ferguson, if not Dred Scott. A White House that wants to strip Blacks of voting rights, and a Justice department that is non-existent. But we are supposed to just find our little happy spot and trust that in the end of the day Speaker Pelosi and Senator Reid will save the day. Sorry, but this not the country I was born in and this is not the country I want to die in. There is a reason why congress's approval rating is down, and let us not forget Keith Olbermann's
rant about the cowardice of this Congress.
I WANT THE DEMOCRATIC CONGRESS TO FIGHT! :patriot: They may not win, but by God FIGHT! Otherwise as Michael Moore noted, people may just walk away, next election, and it will be a battle between the two parties with the least attrition.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

33. Are you failing to acknowledge the actions taken, to date?

I wish I could access the incredible thread that required seven pages to print off the assertive actions taken, to date.

Compare and contrast to what we had before January 2007,...NO HOPE of any movement towards RE-enacting what our country was SUPPOSE to be.

Yes. DAMN STRAIGHT I WANT A FIGHT!!! But, I want to win the ultimate battle for our integrity as a democracy.

Besides, if you or I could do better,...we should be in the arena rather than spectators spewing our passions. Spectatorship is worthless. Participation is priceless.

[creeksneakers2]

43. Good boxers don't flail with wild punches

There's more Iraq legislation on the burner and even more coming in September. We need 17 Republicans to cave and we are getting there. John Conyers' committee is going to vote for contempt. The Democrats are fighting. The ultimate fight though,is 2008,which could get rid of these fascists entirely.

[Control-Z]

48. A one liner that says it all

'Good boxers don't flail with wild punches'

We have repugs, not just distancing as they were 5, 6 months ago, but, stepping up with (a bit of) sanity.

[Elspeth]

68. And the chemicals in your brain will be happy for a while if the Dems "by God FIGHT".

But in the end, it is the slow, boring procedures of law that can actually get things done. Watergate took over a year (16 months) of investigations before Articles of Impeachment were drawn up toward the end of July 1974. Nixon resigned within a few weeks of those articles.

[Throwing Stones]

40. it's only six months, yes ...

but Pelosi hasn't taken the first step towards impeachment. When can we expect her to do that - December 2008?

The evidence against this administration is far more damning than what the Congress that investigated Nixon had to work with. We have admissions of waterboarding, renditions, wiretapping! What, exactly should we be waiting for?

[Control-Z]

45. In her position

she must step gingerly.

She/they are dealing with a much more evil and educated (by the past) breed. They are a new congress majority with roadblocks left and right. A rock solid case and the time it takes to achieve one will be the answer, imo.

Look at the Plame case - evidence all over the place, for all the good it did.

I expect we can, and plan, to take them out as thoroughly as possible, but only in good time.

[Control-Z]

55. You may apppear to be new here at DU

but you are most certainly not new to reality.

Welcome.

[Control-Z]

34. In re: my last statement in OP

Chichiri's OP states more clearly what I was trying.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1337619&mesg_id=1337619

[Exultant Democracy]

37. She did her part to keep the rethugs home last Nov and she is doing

all the right things now. I am sure that she want to see Bush impeached as much as the rest of us, but she has a big and diverse party to Sheppard.

[Control-Z]

56. And she has the experience,

education, and political savvy to succeed at what is important to advance our objectives in the most effective way.

[Usrename]

38. Sure, just ask the Iraqis. Bush is no worse than Saddam was.

Oh, wait..

[saracat]

47. Yay! You are making sense.Watch out for flames.Some will not allow

any expression of appreciation for education and experience. They want what they want and they want it NOW! and are willing to support a nincompoop to get make their point.Thank you great post!

[Control-Z]

49. I expect flames, but that's ok

Truth brings with it disturbances of every kind. Thanks.:)

[Gelliebeans]

52. None from me

great post!
The tantrums being thrown and the blame being placed squarely at her feet is ridiculous.
I don't think we should back off investigating nor do I think we should stop talking about impeachment. I just think calling for her head is asinine.

[Control-Z]

53. Forcing any action, too soon,

would be a travesty. I expect Nancy has the fortitude to shake it off and continue to trudge away. A little backing would go a long way and it would be nice to offer her up some but she'll manage without it.

How ya been, Gelliebeans? :hi:

[Gelliebeans]

71. Doing good Deary

enjoying your posts :hi:

[WHAT]

57. dancing in the dark...

I'd say

[Control-Z]

60. No,

just alone. I get that.

[Hissyspit]

58. She should have said nothing about whether impeachment was on or off the table. n/t

[Control-Z]

59. Silence is golden n/t

[Jade Fox]

66. Hardly. The press hounded her about it.

If Pelosi had just said 'no comment', they would have continued the hounding, and she rightly wanted the attention to go to other things.

[GeorgeGist]

63. You are Yellow.

[Control-Z]

70. Why thank you

Not everyone can look smart in yellow, ya know. Red is so often the sharp power color. Overused, if you ask me.