Mom: Baby's talk got me kicked off plane

[kurth]

Mom: Baby's talk got me kicked off plane

ATLANTA (AP) - A woman said she and her toddler son were kicked off a plane after she refused a flight attendant's request to medicate her son to get him to quiet down and stop saying "Bye bye, plane." Kate Penland, of suburban Atlanta, said she and her 19-month-old son, Garren, were flying from Atlanta to Oklahoma last month on a Continental Express flight that made a stop in Houston.

As the plane was taxiing in Houston en route to Oklahoma, "he started saying 'Bye, bye plane,' Penland told WSB-TV in Atlanta. The flight attendant objected, she said. "At the end of her speech, she leaned over the gentleman beside me and said, 'It's not funny anymore. You need to shut your baby up,'" Penland told WSB-TV in Atlanta.

When Penland asked the woman if she was joking, she said the stewardess replied, "You know, it's called baby Benadryl," referring to an allergy medication that can also be used as a sleep aid. "And I said, 'Well, I'm not going to drug my child so you have a pleasant flight,'" Penland told the TV station.

Penland said other passengers began speaking up on her behalf, and the flight attendant announced they were turning around and that Penland and Garren were going to be taken off the plane. Penland and her son were let off the plane and did not complete the trip to Oklahoma, said Kristy Nicholas, spokeswoman for Express Jet Airlines, which flies as Continental Express on behalf of Continental Airlines...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap_travel/20070713/ap_tr_ge/travel_brief_toddler_plane;_ylt=AlV4tTKtB9W7YOGtxKN26dTMWM0F

[BlooInBloo]

1. Wow - this has been happening a lot lately.

[PDJane]

2. Much too much........

It seems that flights are going to get more and more difficult for ordinary folks, especially those with children...this is an interesting form of elitism.

[C_eh_N_eh_D_eh]

3. The kid kept saying "bye bye plane"?

It was way out of line to have two guys kicked off just for speaking Arabic a while back, but geez, if I'm on a plane in the first place, I'm nervous enough already. I don't need to be sitting next to a suspense film cliche.

[pnwmom]

46. You would be freaked by a baby saying "bye bye plane"?

You don't know much about babies, Babies talk in telegraph style. Probable translation: "we're going bye-bye in the plane, right Mommy?"

This poor family had just spent 12 hours on a layover. It's amazing this baby wasn't having a temper tantrum about getting on another flight after such a long day.

[Warren DeMontague]

59. Obviously that baby was making terrorist threats.

Or he was provoking Satan's invisible, unicorn-riding sky legions to smite the plane with his magical chant.

[lumberjack_jeff]

92. Maybe there was C-4 packed into his pacifier. n/t

[pnwmom]

99. That must be it. The baby was inciting the demons.

:sarcasm:

[unkachuck]

4. in a word....

....duct-tape?....joking....

....admittedly, I don't fly....ah, but if I did, I would expect a 19 month-old toddler to be bored out of his gourd after 10 minutes and making all kinds of noise....no need to put him in a drug-induced stupor....he's being normal....

....where are peoples love and patiences for children these days?....

....I'm from the Doctor Spock generation and adults bent over backwards to put up with our bullshit....why the hell can't we return the favor and do likewise for the kids of today?....

[mrreowwr_kittty]

6. Are you kidding me?!? It's Dr. Spock on steroids now.

Today's children are cosseted, over-protected, over-scheduled, fretted over, and infantilized until they are well into their 20s. The entire country has practically been bubble-wrapped for their protection. As for what happened on the plane, we are only getting the mom's side of the story. For all we know the child could have been screaming "Bye Plane!" at 90 decibels, during the mandated safety briefing.

[unkachuck]

20. boy....

....are you mean....it's a BABY, cut him and his Mom some slack....were you ever young and vocal?....did you only travel with your Mother in silence?....

....try sticking some gum in your ears....

[mrreowwr_kittty]

22. Usually I do just plug my ears, but then again I don't fly too often.

How about the people who have to fly regularly, for work or whatever? They should just have to put up with screaming babies and toddlers on every flight? Well...I guess they just do...

[dddem]

69. With all due respect,

I prefer the term "tolerate" over "put up with".
We need to be considerate of one another, not just those we agree with. I was once on a 2 hour flight sitting next to a crying toddler the whole time. All this poor kid wanted was for her mother to hold her, and every time the mom attempted, the flight attendant made her put the child back in her own seat (I assume it was a safety issue - there was some turbulence). It was nobody's fault, the poor kid didn't understand, the mom felt awful, and I'm sure the flight attendant wasn't trying to be unreasonable. it was just one of those things. I spent my time being thankful that I was going home to my own kids, and being grateful that the world is full of children who want to be close to their mommies, and moms who adore thier children. There are too many stories of kids who aren't so fortunate. I guess it's all in how you look at things.
Peace.

[MissB]

144. Dh flies nearly every other week for work.

When he gets on a flight with a screaming toddler, he is sympathetic to the parents. After all, he had two go through the toddler stage, so he knows full well that there is very little that can be done on an airplane to "shut up" a screaming toddler.

After all, hitting a child into submission is generally illegal (not to mention piss-poor parenting). Drugging them is a pretty crappy choice too. At that age, redirection is appropriate.

[Maru Kitteh]

164. Where the fuck in the article does it say SCREAMING?

See, the thing is, you DON'T have a right to demand SILENCE from all of your fellow citezens in a public place, no matter what their age or level of ability; or for that matter, yours.

[pnwmom]

47. Some of the reports also quoted OTHER passengers, who confirmed

the mother's account. Unbelieveably, after a 12 hour layover, all the toddler was doing was calmly repeating the words "bye bye plane."

That flight attendant is the one who needs some tranquilizing, not the baby.

[CoffeeCat]

5. It sounds like the bitchy flight attendant.....

...was the only one bothered by the toddler who was saying, "Bye bye plane".

I think it's adorable.

Obviously, some joyless, dried-up flight attendant was having a bad day.

I don't often advocate suing, but the mother of this toddler should sue. They
purchased tickets, they didn't get to their destination because of the Queen
of Mean. They did nothing wrong. The airline sold the tickets to the woman
and her child. I doubt anyone expects a toddler to sit quietly and read, "Sky
Mall".

I find it hard to believe that this flight attendant managed to get the plane
turned around. Did she actually tell the pilots, "We have to land now! There's
a cute toddler talking!!". How did this sourpuss manage to get the flight re-routed and
these people kicked off the plane?

Where is the empathy and compassion in this country? Do the pole cats of the
world always win???

edited to add: And anyone who advocates making a toddler unconscious---with Benadryl--
is an irresponsible idiot. Benadryl isn't toddler sleep medication. I'm surprised
she didn't offer the mom some vodka in a sippy cup. What a complete moron.

[dmallind]

10. I think the empathy and compassion

....Are probably in the same place as parenting skills and responsibility. I don't care WHAT the kid was screaming repeatedly. It could have been "Bush is a moron" and I still wouldn't think it was "cute" or "adorable". If you can't stop your kid screaming then don't inflict that shit on the rest of us in a closed environment.

[javadu]

11. Turn the Volume Up On Your Ipod

Close your eyes -- your piehole -- and live with it. Why is that so hard??? :shrug:

[mrreowwr_kittty]

14. Because the world doesn't revolve around your progeny, maybe? nt

[javadu]

17. But My Kid Is In the Word -- Just as You Are

We are all swimmming in the same river. So stop bitching.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

21. Yeah okay, you too. You go first. n/t

[TheFriendlyAnarchist]

71. Just because we're stuck in the same river doesn't mean you can piss in it

Personally, I would have just sat there and been quietly pissed off and probably drown it out by turning music to full volume. Is a 2 year old chanting normal? Yes. Does that mean that that behavior is always acceptable? Absolutely not. Where's the compassion? Please. My parents taught me that if I was doing something inappropriate, I got about two chances to stop, otherwise we all left. I got a lecture and a stern glare and I sure as hell didn't do that again.

All this aside, I generally like kids (Just not loud repetative noises, my ear is fucked up and rings too much as it is) and the flight attendant grievously overstepped her bounds and I think the family should be reimbursed in full for both flights and possibly damages.

[Name removed]

149. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TahitiNut]

155. Wow. Is road rage a hobby of yours?

:eyes: Does your mother know you talk like that?

[pnwmom]

48. The world revolves around its collective progeny,

as we were all progeny of someone at some point.

[TheFriendlyAnarchist]

72. But I wasn't loud and obnoxious

:P

[pnwmom]

103. Yeah, right. Me neither.

;-)

[mrreowwr_kittty]

134. The majority of children in this world are treated like shit

Malnourished, diseased, drinking contaminated water, living in war zones, or working their little fingers to the bones in factories to make cheap ass trinkets for fat ass Americans to buy at Walmart. Maybe if people, as a whole, started really and truly caring about children instead of trying to see how many they can bring into the world to turn into cheap labor and cannon fodder, things might change.

[Katherine Brengle]

63. Do you not have children?

It's not so easy to "shut up" a toddler. And it doesn't sound like this one was causing a disturbance worthy of censure.

It's ridiculous to expect a small child to act like an adult.

[nini]

76. but he can behave like a well behaved Toddler

Being tired etc.. is not the issue. Being a brat is.

[breakaleg]

81. Since when does exclaiming "bye bye plane" make a child a brat?

Sounds to me he was happy and excited to be on the plane and was expressing that.

[nini]

82. mine was more of a general statement. but..

I doubt this particular situation that got that out of hand because of a 'happy and excited' toddler.

My point on this has always been if this child had ever heard 'shhh - quiet voice is needed' or similar before and learned there were times they had to pipe down this would NOT have happened.

Before you tell me a child that age is not capable of understanding that - I'll tell you up front yes they can if they are taught.

9 months? no, 22 months? yes

[breakaleg]

84. That is typical behavior for children of that age. To turn a plane around and kick them off is far

too extreme. I suspect those in charge have no clue about children to do this.

[nini]

88. I'm sure stewardesses have been aroun plenty of kids in their day

and have a clue to what the limit is for the other passengers.

I've flown plenty of times with bratty kids and with kids that were quiet. I've even played with kids in front of me before and enjoyed them. It IS possible to quiet a child and keep them entertained.

I've also been annoyed kids that just won't keep it below a certain level in a confined space - this is not acceptable.

[pnwmom]

104. Why should you be sure that this particular flight attendant

didn't behave badly on this particular day?

Maybe she was tired and had a long day and just took it out on this family. That seems the most likely scenario to me, since the other passengers say the baby wasn't being disruptive.

[Warren DeMontague]

179. Seems to me it was the Flight Attendant who was being the out-of-control brat.

I hope they can her ass.

[Katherine Brengle]

89. But what behavior is unacceptable?

I think speaking is acceptable. Little kids, like I said before, should not be expected to act like adults - they should be expected to act like little kids. And speaking is not bad behavior.

[nini]

126. Speaking is not bad behavior - of course not

screeching or screaming like kids do when they get overly excited is when in an environment like that. ALL that needed to be done was a little 'shhh' to the child so he'd know to take it down a notch - that assumes though that the child has been taught this before. It works with the little guy you see in my sig line - I don't understand why kids can't be taught to respond to that and I don't think it's asking too much to expect parents to teach kids that early on.

Haven't we all played the quiet game with our little ones to have them bring it down a notch or two? That's the kind of stuff I'm talking about.

[Katherine Brengle]

131. Certainly, but I don't shush my daughter if all she is doing is talking --

even if she is repeating the same thing over and over again as children tend to do. It sounded like this was what happened in this story.

If the child was screaming, I would expect the parent to quiet them as well as possible (though after a 12 hour layover and all that travel I can understand why it might prove difficult and that doesn't make the mother a bad parent).

[pnwmom]

102. No, the issue isn't being a brat, because none of the other passengers

reported that he acted in any way inappropriately.

The issue is being a short-tempered, power hungry adult -- which that flight attendant obviously was, at least on that occasion. Maybe she was just having a bad day, but she was the one at fault here, not the baby and not the parent.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

127. Okay, I'll bite

Are you telling me that because you are a parent, that you are miraculously immune to misbehaving children in your midst? Are you telling me that if you and your husband got a babysitter to enjoy a nice quiet evening out that you would not be annoyed if the couple next to you brought their child and he/she was screaming and fussing the whole time? What if the parents did nothing to control the child, save for the occasional shush? Do you enjoy having unfettered children ram their little kid karts into your foot at the supermarket? Are you totally okay with these things because you are a parent too?

Funny how I know plenty of parents who regularly give me an earful about the poor parenting styles of others but those types seem to be mysteriously absent from this thread.

I should also note that I have lived in both Japan and Canada and I never witnessed the level of misbehavior that I see in (some) American children. I rode trains and subways in Tokyo and Yokohama on a regular basis. There were nearly always babies and children of all ages present. And they were well-behaved because acting up in public simply wasn't tolerated there. Trains are crowded as hell and you learned to respect other peoples' space. If a group of unsupervised school kids got a little too boisterous, they would be immediately rebuked by ANY adult who was present on the train. There was none of this sense of "How DARE you talk to MY child!" going on there. Kids in Vancouver were more similar to Americans but it always just seemed a lot quieter in public places when I was there. If you think it's not a big deal just remember that many of those rowdy, undisciplined American kids will grow up to be the inconsiderate loudmouth adults who personify the Ugly American stereotype abroad.

[nini]

130. good post

I hate that 'do you have kids?' crack - like someone who doesn't should not expect manners from other's kids.

I've had my grandson in my sig line for over a year here and because I agreed with training kids at an early age to behave I was accused of not knowing what I was talking about because I surely must not have kids :eyes: .. I must hate kids... blah blah blah.

Yes, I hate kids.. so much so I have one in my sig line ;-)

[mrreowwr_kittty]

133. Your grandson is adorable

Thanks for the compliment, too. I really feel like I'm swimming against the tide here. This thread might be hitting a bit too close to home for some of the parents here. :shrug:

You know, it always strikes me how American parents are totally down with Hillary's "It takes a village" concept when it comes to social services, schools, tax breaks, accomodations, safety measures, etc. But when their children start acting inappropriately in the public space, all of a sudden the village better keep its mouth shut and mind its own business.

[nini]

thanks.. he's a lot of fun

as far as the swimming against the tide - I know how you feel and I don't understand the hysterical responses to what amounts to common sense posts and what to expect from others in society.

Good point about the village - hits the nail on the head actually.

[breakaleg]

145. I think it's more likely that as a parent, one tends to be sympathetic to the behavior of a two year

old.

I've ridden those same trains you mentioned and it seemed to me the children were shy and withdrawn and kept to themselves for those reasons. I have never seen any adult discipline a child that was not theirs. But for one woman who slapped my child for making eye contact with her and trying to get her to smile at him. I have seen many many Japanese children misbehave and throw tantrums in public. They are not immune to the terrible twos.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

148. But you always knew when a bunch of Americans got on

Because you could hear them 3 cars away.

As for the discipline, I'm shocked that a woman slapped your son! I merely saw adults scolding children, nothing more. I didn't see Japanese children as being shy and withdrawn at all. I found them to be quite open and friendly, especially to us gaijins. And they can be quite spoiled, but I never saw them being allowed to run screaming up and down the aisles and raise a ruckus like you see here.

[breakaleg]

160. Perhaps you weren't riding just after 3pm when school got out. At that time

all the children were in a pack, unsupervised and running wild. And as much as I'm familiar with the stereotype of American children, I have never witnessed American children behave in that way, simply because their parents wouldn't dare let them ride the trains alone.

Anyway, this has nothing to do with the OP since you can't compare children on a daily short train ride to a 2 year old on an airplane. It's a completely different beast. I only put my two cents in because the "loud American" stereotype was being compared to the quiet, well behaved Japanese one and that's simply not the case.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

173. Yes, UNSUPERVISED children will act up no matter where they are from

Once those Japanese kids got on the train, they zipped it, lest they get kicked off by the conductor. The problem in the U.S. is that children will act up, while in the presence of their parents, and get away with it. To me, that is shirking parental responsibility to the point where it borders on neglect and abuse.

[breakaleg]

174. I'm telling you those kids did not get kicked off any train despite their acting up.

Nor did they "zip it" once they got on the train.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

175. Well, maybe it's changed since I've been there. I left in 1995. nt

[dmallind]

119. Don't have one or want one for a start.

Why is it the person not making the noise that must accommodate the parents of those who are? Shouldn't the onus be on the cause of a disturbance not those who are disturbed? What's so hard about not inflicting the discomfort and constraints of an airplane flight on a child too young to understand or deal with it, and at the same time inflicting the inevitable screaming on those who are? Obviously the kid isn't happy about it and the only people who are making the decision to stress out the kid AND other passengers are parents who don't care about either.

[Maru Kitteh]

176. WHERE does it say SCREAMING? Or are you just that dramatic?

Right. It doesn't say screaming. It says, saying.

[Maru Kitteh]

167. What do you mean by "dried up" and why do you apply it to a female?

Please be honest.

I agree with your general feeling towards her character but I'd like you to consider the terminology you used.

Are post-menopausal women no longer capable of maternal empathy in your opinion? This is what this assesment implies.

[mitchum]

7. Baby Benadryl? WTF? My mom gave us good ol'cough syrup to put us out...

kids today...

[NV Whino]

8. Flame away

I'm on the joyless, dried-up flight attendant's side. There are only so many "Bye, bye planes" a person can take.

Disclaimer: I do not advocate drugging children, however.

[Phoonzang]

32. Flame!!!

Nah, just kidding. I said the same thing in another thread about this and got bombarded.

[pnwmom]

49. You're on her side enough to kick them off the plane? After a 12 hour layover?

That flight attendant should have been giving the Mom an award for keeping her tired child calm for so long.

[ncabot22]

91. I'll get flamed, but I agree with you

If a child cannot behave within an enclosed environment, then he or she shouldn't be there. I don't blame the child, though. I blame the parents. Parents need to learn how to control their kids better. If you can't, then don't have them. The rest of us don't think your kid rambling on and on is cute.

[MissB]

122. I'll only flame you half-heartedly.

It is clear you know nothing about child development.

[ldf]

138. and maybe you don't know all that YOU need to

about parenting...

i'm just sayin'...

:shrug:

[MissB]

143. I know what is age appropriate.

And a toddler repeating "bye bye plane" over and over and over is certainly appropriate.

Suggesting that child should be drugged (as the flight attendant apparently did) isn't.

I have two very well behaved kids - well beyond the toddler stage now. I get comments all the time on how polite they are and how well behaved they are. I'm not a perfect parent, but I certainly recognize that redirecting a toddler aged child is an effective way to deal with the "bye bye plane" situation. Telling a kid that age to "shut up" isn't appropriate parenting. Expecting a child that age to be quiet for a consistently long period of time isn't realistic.

Unless you use a switch or your hand. You can probably beat them into submission, but then again I don't consider that positive parenting.

edited to spell beyond correctly

[ncabot22]

150. Plenty of parents can control their kids

I've been on planes where I've seen parents control a two year-old by telling the child to sit down and be quiet. The mother could have tried telling her child to sit and be quiet--who knows--she may have. It is the lack of courtesy some parents have that annoys me moreso than a noisy kid. At least make an effort to control your kids. The parents that let their kids prattle on and on and on are inconsiderate and should rethink travel plans if, IF, they can't keep their kids quiet or in their seats.

Here's an example: some friends were at a cafe last week. The six year-old next to them kept screaming "but I don't want that". The mom and dad did nothing. Why should people have to listen to that?

I don't see what is wrong with telling a child to be quiet. My parents told me to shut up and I'm not a serial killer, I don't have self-esteem issues and I'm very close to both of them. Hell, my mom used to threaten me before we went into a store or a restaurant saying "behave or else". I behaved and all was well. More parents should be a bit firmer with their children. 2 year-olds know what "be quiet" means..at least the smart ones do.

[juajen]

168. Yeah, but what's wrong with a sucker or cracker?

I haven't heard that the mother did any of the normal things a mom does to pacify a child. If all else fails, some chocolate? It always pacifies me when I'm in a tizzy. Really!

A chattering child can be very annoying and I believe the stewardess was trying to perform her duties and was having a hard time. I'm going to go back and re-read the article

[mrreowwr_kittty]

9. I'm of the opinion that babies and toddlers flying should be avoided at all costs.

Why put a child, and other passengers, through it? I can recall being on a plane at about the age of 3 and screaming in pain because of the effect of the altitude on my ears. Why was I on the plane? I have no idea, but I'm pretty sure that it was not essential that I be flown to wherever I was going. I could see the rare occasion where a relative is too elderly and frail to travel to see the baby. Other than that, everyone can fly to where the baby is, or wait until the kid is old enough to handle a plane ride.

[javadu]

12. Let People Live Their Own Lives

Why are you telling me when I can fly and how my kid should behave. It's called valium. You should try it.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

13. WTF?!? How about we give some valium to your kid instead?

Because that makes about as much sense as what you said to me.

[javadu]

15. But You Are the One With the Problem -- Not Me

So you should take the "baby benadryl." Doesn't it make sense that the person who has the problem (such as yourself -- or the flight attendant) take the drugs instead of drugging the kid?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

19. No, you're the one with the problem but you're oblivious to it

You think everyone should tolerate your precious spawn, no matter what he/she does. And I think it's pretty obvious that I'm NOT advocating drugging the kid. What part of "makes as much sense as..." did you not get?

[javadu]

23. Really -- I don't have a problem

It is not obvious (until now) that you are not advocating drugging kids. The flight attendant was clearly advocating for it. And -- it does make perfect sense that anyone who is annoyed has the responsibility for alleviating their own discomfort instead of trying to control other people. If you are annoyed by kids on planes, don't fly. If you are annoyed by kids in restaurants, go the bar or go home. There are too many people trying to tell other people what kind of behavior is proper.

[U4ikLefty]

25. I'm not for drugging the kid...I'm for kicking the mom & kid off the plane.

Just refund her money and tell her to go home.

If you don't like it...stay home with your spawn.

[javadu]

27. If You Can't Deal with a 2 Year Old --- You Have a Problem

I strongly suggest that you begin avoiding all places where there is a possibility of coming into contact with 2 year olds.

The country is still free (barely) -- until the jackbooted kidhaters start sequestering all of the parents in their homes and not letting them come out until they are 18.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

28. Oh jesus! When will that happen?

The jackbooted kidhaters of your imagination have no power in the U.S. Far as I know, most restaurants, stores, airlines, theaters, etc., don't forbid children in tow with their parents so I have no idea what you are blubbering about. Is it too much to ask that you control your offsping, such that patrons don't have their experience ruined by their behavior? If they start acting up in a store or restaurant, then take them home. If they start acting up on a plane (although why you had them there in the first place I addressed on another post), then cover their mouth or give them a pacifier (not drugs!).

It's really not that hard, javadu. Try having some respect for the rest of the people in the world.

[U4ikLefty]

33. Thank You. n/t

[flyarm]

35. Flying is privilege, no one has a right to it!!

there are rules and regulations..end of story!!

people can be taken off a flight for bad odor..and bad behavior..or for not following the the directions of the flight crew..the flight crew has the ultimate decision if you are exceptable to fly on any particular flight.

Prior to you boarding that flight the Airline has the right to accept you.. .or not..but once you walk on that aircraft..the flight crew has the responsibility for you and all the passengers..and if a flight crew deems you unacceptable for many reasons..( that are approved by the FAA) you can be removed from that aircraft..

just as driving is a privledge..so is flying.

fly

[nini]

77. The problem is the parents not wanting ot change their lives after kids arrive

They still want to go to the movies, out to eat in quiet places, etc.. with kids that just aren't ready to know what the accepted behavior is and the ability to live up to it.

It's not the kids - it's the parents being selfish and refusing to adjust their lives a bit after jr arrives.

Kids act up in those places because they're not the right environment for them.

Planes are a whole other ballgame - my feel on this is kids will behave and quiet down when asked if they are taught early on that sometimes they have to.

Sorry, to tell you the world does NOT have to revolve around other's little ones. The parents need to make sure they leave the kids with a baby sitter for some envvironments just like they did in the old days. If they can't afford that then they can't afford going out in the first place and should stay home.

[Rabrrrrrr]

61. Wow - your attitude s precisely what flyarm speaks against below.

"Other people should deal with my shit".

:eyes:

[OzarkDem]

80. Agree

People with children shouldn't be treated as second class citizens.

When my children were young, we only flew when traveling home to visit relatives during the holidays. It wasn't easy or always pleasant, but we handled it as best we could and our children didn't bother other passengers.

I will always remember, however, the rudeness of flight attendants - most were horrible the moment they saw you get on the plane with a child and looked for every opportunity to give you a hard time. I haven't flown TWA airlines since the mid 1980's because of their rudeness.

Bottom line, anyone who pays for a ticket is entitled to fly. If a child's talking bothers people, too bad.

[Midlodemocrat]

118. Boy, you are spot on. When my brother was married in Milwaukee

ten years ago, my youngest was just one. The morning of the flight, my four year old son woke up with a stomach virus, so my husband stayed home with him and I took the girls to Milwaukee.

I boarded the plane with a car seat, a fold up stroller, a diaper bag, a one year old and a six year old.

I boarded early so I could get the car seat installed. You know what the FA did?

Nothing. Nothing except to tell me that I needed a ticket for my baby, (which I had because I didn't want to chance not being able to put her in her car seat)

Did any of them try to help me out? Not a fucking one. On the returning flight, I was coming down with the same virus my son had and it was the same story.

A passenger in first class was the only person that helped me.

Getting off the plane, I handed the kids to my husband, ran into the bathroom and got sick. There was no way those flight attendants couldn't have known I wasn't feeling well. I asked for ginger ale and saltines the entire flight.

After that fiasco, I always make it a point to help out young families on planes. My husband flies every week and has carried more baby seats than he can count for people.

Maybe a little tolerance is what is needed.

[pnwmom]

50. Lots of people live far away from their families these days.

And unless you're wealthy enough not to care, it makes a lot more sense for one or two parents to travel with a child than for 5 or 10 or more relatives to travel to see them.

[Katherine Brengle]

64. Parents and families travel too lol.

What dumbassery.

[ulysses]

105. sorry, but no.

When we have our son on a plane, we do everything we can both in advance and during the flight to ensure that he's relatively quiet. Sometimes it works, other times it doesn't. We keep at it of course, but in the greater scheme of things, my parents' (both well into their seventies) ability to see their grandson outweighs your annoyance at having to share an airplane with a toddler.

[Name removed]

106. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ulysses]

108. nice try on the "breeder" thing,

but our son is adopted.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

109. Congratulations. I was adopted too. Whatever.

Neither of us had any way of knowing our adopter/adoptee status until we just pointed it out to each other. Now address the point in my post, if you can.

[LeftyMom]

128. I took my two year old on a three-leg cross country flight

then did the same thing home a week and a half later.

He slept through most of it, because I kept him awake and busy as long as possible the day before. When he was awake, he snacked, looked out the window a bit and was really well behaved.

I think the big tricks are to have plenty of food and snacks so there's no ear pressure trouble or hungry bellies, and to make sure the kid is at any age in their own seat and in a carseat- that way they're in a familiar space where they already know the rules.

[Radical Activist]

137. Yep.

Its amazing how many people won't accept the limitations that come with having a baby, or who think that everyone else should have to suffer to accommodate their life choice.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

157. Including, apparently, the babies themselves

I can't believe the responses I got to that post. The right of parents to subject their infants to long, painful flights so that they may show them off to Third Cousin Nancy in Duluth is sacrosanct!

[Ms. Toad]

158. I flew at age two,

and my understanding is I slept quietly the entire flight. My daughter has flown regularly since that age - and for a weekend conference in a distant state flying is the only way to make a trip. The conference isn't going to come to us.

FWIW,my spouse with major allergies is often a lot closer to screaming in pain than our daughter ever was. Age should is not a determinative factor in whether one can fly comfortably or not.

[BoneDaddy]

16. I love children but come on folks

I have two sons of my own and I don't take them out into public because, hell, they can be children and although, I , as the parent, think their crap smells cute, it isn't that way to the rest of the world. Anyone who thinks that they are entitled to be on a plane with their toddler and he/she is allowed to be the most annoying thing on earth is a fucking idiot. I do not presume so, so I don't take my children out to dinner on most occasions and if they do start acting up, I do not ruin the dining experience for the other 100 customers.

Just because you can breed does not mean your child has a right to inconvenience the fucking planet.

Being a parent is realizing just that.

I love my kids that is why I do not put them in situations where I expect a 2 year old to "maintain" for 6 hours. If that was the case, I would medicate. Not only for my sanity, but for others. Stop the drama

[pnwmom]

52. The only one being dramatic was the flight attendant.

All the baby was doing was talking -- which is pretty amazing, considering that they had just had a 12 hour layover.

All the reports I heard quoted other passengers as saying that the baby was NOT causing a disturbance. The flight attendant was the only one who reacted that way. She was off on a power trip, IMO.

[Warren DeMontague]

55. You have sons --- but you "don't take them out into public"???

What do you do, Keep 'em in the attic?

This crazy attitude some have of "God Forbid I should Be forced to be exposed to Children in any way, shape or form" is sick. Sick, and sad.

Yeah, I've been stuck on planes with crying babies and annoying toddlers. I've also been stuck on planes with flatulent businessmen, loud drunks, wheezy old ladies, people with bad breath, "adults" who get psychotic when you put the seat back, and a 350 lb Korean man who reeked of Kim Chee, fell asleep on my shoulder and groggingly groped me half the way to Europe.

People don't want toddlers and babies to cry on airplanes--- and then they freak the fuck out when the mommy puts her boob in junior's mouth to get 'em to stop crying.

Get a fucking grip, people. Reproduction is part of the human condition. I don't think, given what a god-damn nightmare flying has become, too many people really WANT to fly with their kids. Some folks HAVE to. Maybe that toddler is going somewhere so his dying grandmother can get her one glimpse of her only grandchild. Yes, if there's a genuine disruption, then maybe some intervention is called for. But a 19 month old saying "Bye Bye Plane", even repeatedly, even, maybe, annoyingly? He's the kid. That's what kids DO.

You're the adult: Suck it up for a few hours. :eyes:

[scorpiogirl]

121. Perfectly said and spot on! n/t

[mrreowwr_kittty]

132. Jesus! Overreact much?

How exactly does criticism of some parents for allowing their children to misbehave in public translate into a desire to eradicate the presence of children to you? Man, you went straight from A to Z without stopping anywhere in between!

Amazing. :crazy:

(BTW, I seriously doubt that the vast majority of babies on planes are going to see a dying grandparent.)

[Warren DeMontague]

136. They kicked a two year old off a plane- for saying "Bye Bye Plane", repeatedly.

Sure, I'm the one who is overreacting. The kid was saying "Bye Bye Plane". That may translate to "misbehaving" to you, but I'm going to wager you've never raised a toddler. What should the parent have done, stuck a ball gag in the kid's mouth? Oh, yeah- sedate him. Right.

With one breath you say it's ridiculous to assume you're advocating "eradicating the presence of children", yet you seem perfectly willing to bemoan their presence on airplanes. Which is it? Should they just not be allowed to fly? Should the 19 month olds who can't follow precise, specific instructions to shut up (meaning, ALL of them) not be allowed to fly?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

147. Obnoxious, entitled, clueless, irresponsible PARENTS of 19 mo. olds should not be allowed anywhere

So there.

Oh yeah, nice try with the "you're not a parent so you don't get to say anything" bullshit. If your kid is acting up in a public space, I hold YOU, not the child, responsible. And I expect YOU to do your job to the best of your ability to control your child so that he/she is not creating a disturbance or safety hazard. If YOU refuse to do that, then YOU should be dealt with.

As for the incident in the OP, I wasn't there so I don't know if the FA was justified in ejecting them. I've never suggested otherwise.

[Warren DeMontague]

156. "As for the incident in the OP" ...um, that's what we're talking about.

I don't think we were talking about anything else. If you've got any other specific examples of 19 month olds "acting up" or "creating a safety hazard" that you would like to float, then maybe we can discuss those. As it is, the example in the OP is all we have.

It is reasonable to expect, for instance, that a toddler not be allowed to run up and down the aisles of an airplane, throw shit at other passengers, etc. It is NOT reasonable to expect that parents of a baby be able to "make" the baby stop crying, nor is it reasonable to expect that parents of a 19 month old be able to "make" the 19 month old stop talking. To stop saying "Bye Bye plane". If you are unable or unwilling to grasp that, well, it's probably for the best that you're NOT a parent.

As for "obnoxious, entitled and clueless", I happen to think those adjectives are far more appropriate for the anti-kid axe grinders who invariably show up in these threads fly off the handle with psycho-sounding tirades and generalized grousing and bitching. (Who do they think is going to be paying for their social security checks?)

Again, all we have is the information in the article. You seem predisposed to assume that the kid (or, as you put it elsewhere in the thread, the "spawn") was causing some kind of a major problem, or maybe you believe that merely saying "bye bye plane" repeatedly IS a major problem. About a year ago, we had a story about a Flight Attendant who caused a big ruckus over two gay passengers kissing on a flight. All we had then, to go on, was the word of the passengers- just like this case. Many of us, myself included, immediately gave the passengers and their story the benefit of the doubt. We didn't sit here bitching about gay affection on airplanes and cluck about needing to hear the Airline's "side" of the story.

We did not assume that "those people" were raising a stink because, you know, gays and lesbians have this obnoxious sense of entitlement, and really we're tired of having to put up with them on airplanes and in restaurants.

Honestly, I think some folks here have real deep seated issues with children, just as many people in our society have deep seated issues with gays and lesbians. Probably some psychiatric help is in order for all of it. Like I said, it's sad.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

163. Dude, you are just all over the place.

Whoa...I don't even know where to start.

Who the hell are you to talk about "psycho tirades" and "deep seated issues"? You accused one guy of locking his kids in the attic for fuck's sake! And now you are conflating objections to bratty kids with homophobia. What's next? Comparisons to Hitler?

Calm down. Seriously. :eyes:

[Warren DeMontague]

178. Mmmm Hmmm. Whatever. Now, returning to the subject of the OP:

As for "objections" to what obviously was a "bratty kid"

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=local&id=5472927

"As she finished, she leaned over the gentleman who was sitting next to me, and she said, 'OK, it's not funny anymore. You need to shut your baby up,'" Penland said.

Penland explained Garron would likely fall asleep soon. The toddler wasn't crying or throwing a fit.

Penland told Eyewitness News, "She said, 'It doesn't matter. Regardless, I don't want to hear it.'

***

"He wasn't any louder than the adult passengers on the plane," said passenger Stacey Watts.

Watts sat just a few rows back from the Georgia mother and heard the entire conversation.

"Katie was in shock at that point," Watts explained. "You could tell. She was in row 3 and I was in row 6. She just kept saying, 'I don't know what you expect me to do. I don't know what you expect me to do.'"

http://www.todaysthv.com/news/news.aspx?storyid=48906

When the flight finally left the gate late that Saturday night, Penland said Garren was talking about it, happily, along with all the adults on board.

"He's saying, 'Bye, bye, airplane' to the plane out the window. And that's what he was doing, he wasn't screaming or throwing a fit, just, 'Bye, Bye, airplane.'"

***

"I said, 'Well, he's been here at the airport for 11 hours, stuck in a stroller, you know, you should be lucky he's not screaming his head off.' And she said, 'Well, it's called Baby Benedryl.' just a little, you know, drinking motion, and I thought she's got to be kidding me. And I told her, 'I'm not going to drug my baby so that you'll have a pleasant flight.'"

***

Penland said the plane was small and other passengers could see and hear her and the flight attendant clearly. Penland said the passengers began speaking up for her, telling the flight attendant they were not disturbed by Garren's talking and that the flight to Oklahoma City from Houston was only one hour, anyway.

"It was ludicrous," one of the passengers, Stacey Watts, said from her home near Oklahoma City. "I even heard somebody from the back of the plane call out there, 'You telling me there's a switch on kids all these years?'"

Yes, right- assume that the mom and the kid were at fault. Because everybody knows kids are all a giant 'bratty' pain in the ass, and all parents who dare to foul an airplane with their "spawn" are running around with a sense of obnoxious entitlement.

:eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes:

Frankly, I think that Flight Attendant should be fired, immediately. I hope she is.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

183. MMMMMM...Did you see the video of the mom and kid on GMA?

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/13675836/detail.html

Not doing much to help her case, there.

[BoneDaddy]

135. LOL

Yes kids do that so I wait until they are old enough to listen. I do no subject the rest of humanity to my selfish needs. Did the attendant over react? of course they did, but if I am exhausted, the last thing I want is some kid, and their irresponsible parent who thinks it is cute, keeping me up for four hours. Children do not trump everyone else's needs for every second all the time. My kids come first, but as a responsible adult, I do not impose my children, who by their very nature may be disruptiive, upon the fucking planet and think that is ok.

I love my kids but I knnow their limits and it is equally unfair to them to place them into a situation where they may have to behave (for everyone else's benefit) like "angels".

[Warren DeMontague]

142. I won't put my kids on a plane unless it's absolutely necessary.

Fuck it, I don't even want to put myself on a plane unless it's absolutely necessary. Part of the problem is that every single flight is packed to the gills, the airlines have made the experience extremely unpleasant, the staff is overworked, the people are pissed off and tired, there's no friggin' room whatsoever, and to make matters worse, frankly, the airlines and flight personnel have been known to abuse the god-like power they have been given, particularly since 9-11. (The case in the OP is a clear example, IMHO)

This is why you have people stuck on the tarmac for 14 hours with overflowing toilets, no food or water, and an attitude of "tough shit" from the airline.

This is why you have packed flights where the seat belt sign is left on for 3-4 hours at a time, due to (cough) "Turbulence"-- when we all fucking know it's really about crowd control, keeping the masses in their seats and out of the aisles. Need badly to take a leak? Again, tough shit. Hey, we've banned all the liquids, so you shouldn't be hydrating yourself without our express approval anyway.

In all my decades of life I've never so badly wanted to buy a Winnebago. I used to like it, but I can't fucking STAND flying anymore. Annoying kids and crying babies are the least of it.

[Katherine Brengle]

65. Um, it's the world that's f*ed up -- or rather, this part of the world -- children

are part of the population - a part that people should be pretty used to dealing with after thousands of years of human existence.

The idea that they should just be kept away from public places is beyond ridiculous. Almost everyone has children at some point - when are we going to start worrying more about making "public" child-friendly than hiding our kids away at home?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

152. Thank you. Excellent post. Stop the drama, indeed.

I actually almost missed your post because I was responding to the guy who is accusing you of locking your kids in the attic. What you described sounds like a very sensible childrearing strategy. Some people don't know how to stop the drama, do they?

[Warren DeMontague]

159. "I have two sons of my own and I don't take them out into public". That is a direct quote.

Okay, so maybe he keeps 'em in the basement.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

165. "you know, gays and lesbians have this obnoxious sense of entitlement"

Direct quote from you.

"ZOMG!1!!1! YOU'RE A GAY BASHER!!1! IT'S TRUE BECAUSE I READ IT IN YOUR POST AND I JUST QUOTED YOU SO THAT'S WHAT YOU ARE. WHY DO YOU HATE GAY PEOPLE SO MUCH YOU HOMO-BIGOT?!?1?"

Oh wait...the quote was taken out of context, wasn't it?

:eyes:

[Warren DeMontague]

177. Nice try. You're flailing-- that's a bad sign for your arguments.

Here is the guy's entire unedited sentence:

"I have two sons of my own and I don't take them out into public because, hell, they can be children and although, I , as the parent, think their crap smells cute, it isn't that way to the rest of the world."

Now, to me, if someone says "I don't take my kids out into public", I naturally assume that what they mean is, they don't take their kids out into public.

See, I don't have to do any creative bullshit editing on that sentence to make it mean something that it clearly doesn't- something that sounds pretty bad. It does just fine on its own.

:eyes:, yourself.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

182. So that means he locks them in the basement or attic?

Speaking of faulty argumentation....

In the rest of the paragraph he mentions that he rarely takes them to restaurants but when he DOES (Did you catch that? He actually lets them out of the dungeon sometimes!) and they act up he takes them out so they don't ruin everyone else's experience. What an ASSHOLE! :rofl:

So, what do you do, impeachdubya? Let your kid(s) raise a holy stink any- and everywhere they are? Does everyone just have to take it because, oh well, kids are just kids? They can't help it and parents shouldn't be expected to be responsible for them because it's so hard!

As I pointed out in a comment I made upthread, American parents readily agree with Hillary Clinton's "It takes a village" concept when it comes to social services, schools, accomodations, safety measures, etc. Y'all want the village, and the village's money, involved to get all that stuff. But when your kids start misbehaving, all of a sudden the village needs to just shut up and mind it's own business, doesn't it? Well sorry, this villager isn't playing along.

And don't bother with the "my kid will take care of you when you're old, pay your Social Security blah blah..." I'm supporting people's Social Security right now, in addition to paying a much higher tax rate so that you can get your parental tax credit, and will most likely continue to do so for several decades. By the time the kids of today paying my checks, I will damn well have earned them.

[Warren DeMontague]

184. Yes. Just like I really believe that dude keeps his kids in the attic, I absolutely let my kids run

wild when we go out. In fact, I especially enjoy going to fancy restaurants, letting them climb in total strangers laps, preferably spilling hot soup or coffee into their crotches. And there's NOTHING I enjoy more than taking small children on an airplane- see, the lugging of strollers, the hassling with security, baggage and long-lines while simultaneously making sure they don't run off into a crowd or endanger themselves or others... it's ALL WORTH IT so that I can get the perverse pleasure of pissing off someone who believes their plane ticket entitles them to not be exposed to any children, ever, or even reminded of the unpleasant fact that some humans insist on reproducing.

Actually, leaving aside your broad-brush smears about what "American Parents" think and demand (I wonder, really, where these issues come from) in answer to your question, no, I don't take my kids out and let them "raise a holy stink". I'm extremely aware of not letting my kids bug other people- and the restaurants, etc. that we do go to are all very kid-friendly. Otherwise, it's just not worth the psychic strain. And at this point, I would sooner get a root canal than put my family on a plane- and we've got family all over the country, including my wife's old and not-terribly-well parents in the Midwest.

As I said upthread, I'm seriously considering buying a Winnebago.

Now I haven't seen the Dianne Sawyer video, maybe if someone can post it in a format that won't continually crash my browser, I can watch it. For some reason, Youtube is able to get video out there in simple, embeddable, easily playable format.. but these news channels have video that doesn't want to run. Probably because I have all kinds of adblocking plugins in Firefox. Oh well- I'm not going to disable all my adblocking just so I can watch ABC's stupid ad-laden video.

But that said, I've seen the pictures from the interview, and it looks like the kid was crawling around and maybe whining. Also however he was behaving at the interview is not necessarily indicative of how he was on the plane. Do 19 month olds whine, climb around, behave unpredictably? Yes, they do. Like I said, the mom on the plane had a responsibility to keep the kid in his seat. Expecting him to "shut up" and "stop talking" is something else.

The bottom line is, a toddler saying "bye bye plane" is NOT "raising a holy stink". Other passengers on the plane have backed up the mother's account. It sounds to me like the Flight Attendant was the one with the problem. And if airlines don't want to accomodate families with babies and very small toddlers (and if passengers are so rigid, uptight, or issues-laden that they simply cannot stand to be around babies and toddlers acting like babies and toddlers) then someone should start a baby-free and kid-free airline service.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

185. If you raise your kids the way you say you do, then you're not the problem!

Why are you taking any and all criticism of parents personally? Surely, at least once in your life, either pre- or post-parenthood, you have encountered some unruly youngsters in public and been annoyed by them, and maybe thought their parents could be doing a better job. Surely you've been somewhere that wasn't appropriate for children (like a bar) but yet, there somebody was with children anyway. Obviously, all these complaints must be based on something, don't you think? I agree that people shouldn't make broad brush statements about parents, and I should avoid using terms like "spawn" to describe children, point taken. But you shouldn't assume that no one ever has a legitimate complaint about poorly disciplined children.

As for me, I'm not particularly bothered by most children in my midst. Generally, I'm the one on the plane who just turns up my ipod or sticks my nose further in the book when there's a cranky kid near me. About 3 years ago, I had my big toenail damn near ripped off in the supermarket by a little kid of about 4 or 5 who came careening around the corner with his kiddie kart and rammed it into my foot. Let me tell you, that hurt like hell. I didn't make a big stink about it or berate the child or his mother. She was very apologetic about it because she KNEW she hadn't been supervising her boy. She was busy chatting with a neighbor while the child was running up and down the aisles. So I went home and put some neosporin on it and didn't sue anybody. It does go to show that unsupervised, undisciplined children can be a safety hazard as well as an annoyance.

At any rate, sorry for being so obstreporous in this thread.

[Warren DeMontague]

186. Well, right back at'cha. No offense intended over here, and my apologies as well.

My irritation builds up over what I see as flat out anti-kid self-righteousness on the part of some on the "left"- There's a thread that's a glaring example of it in GD right now- and it sometimes makes me overreact, for sure. Sorry.

I would like to watch the interview; if, as some have suggested, it seems like the mother is totally unwilling to control the kid in any way, shape, or form- that might say something.

Believe it or not, there was a time- a long time- when I was the guy without kids. When I was the guy who would go "Oh, fuck, please, no" when seeing the mom with the young baby get on the plane and head for the seats right next to me. I still understand that sentiment- and believe me, the few times we have had to fly with a baby or toddler, I've gone overboard to try to make sure we weren't stepping on any toes. It's funny, because the occasional anti-public-breastfeeding nut that shows up around these threads really doesn't get it- nothing will calm a baby or small toddler faster than having a boob in his or her mouth. (I want to tell 'em- "Dude: Would you rather be forced to look away from a natural function, or listen to a screaming baby?")

But now that I see just how difficult it actually is to travel with kids; I'm a little more sympathetic than I used to be. And like I said; I've been in public places- and on planes- where parents let their kids run wild. It's not okay. There are some seriously dumb-ass parents out there, no question. The woman who is blaming Great America because her 4 year old drowned when she left him in a pool by himself; I feel awful for her, she's enduring a horrible tragedy- but what the fuck was she thinking?

But I've also been on planes where overworked, stressed, or otherwise out-of-control flight attendants have made problems instead of solving them. Flying in general has become such a pain for everyone (bear in mind that what preceded this whole event was an 11 hour delay... for a 1 hour flight!) that it's kind of understandable that everyone is a little nuts.

Anyway, I'm done with this topic, I think. Peace.

[Blue_In_AK]

18. The last time I flew to DC in January for the march

there were ADULTS sitting a few rows behind me talking and laughing at the top of their voices for at least two hours -- and this was a Red Eye leaving Anchorage about 1:00 a.m. Nobody suggested Benadryl for them -- although I wish somebody had -- and they certainly didn't turn the plane around and make them get off. I doubt if this little toddler could have been any more annoying.

[emilyg]

24. Saw the little toddler

on TV- pretty active and vocal

[Moloch]

26. THANK GOD for that flight attendant...

People really need to control their children. I wish they would leave them all at home.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

29. I don't think people should leave their kids at home at all

Though I don't think they should be on planes, in general. Taking your kids to restaurants and other places is a good way to teach them how to operate in the world. But I think you should do it in a way that's age-appropriate and shows respect for the other people who are in your midst.

[ingac70]

30. Having just got back from a long flight myself....

I wish there was a family section on larger planes. If I wanted to listen to kids for 7 hours straight, I would have some.

[pnwmom]

53. How else to visit all the grandparents and siblings who are still

in Hometown, U.S.A.?

It's a heck of a lot cheaper for a parent or two to travel with a baby than for all the relatives to visit the young family.

I wish irritable, intolerant people would stay home. But we live in a big diverse world and we have to deal with all kinds of uncomfortable situations.

[Writer]

31. See the video!

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/13675836/detail.html

:popcorn: with butter.

[Kingshakabobo]

101. I think that video pretty much settles it. The kid is a spoiled brat and the mother doesn't care.

She doesn't even TRY to control him.

[flyarm]

34. consideration is a thing of the past...by adults...

i never blame a child for piss poor behavior..ever..it is the adults fault a child misbehaves

and many adults misbehave period!

we are a society that thinks everyone has to "put up" with our kids..or put up with our own lousey behavior

the rules are for everyone else it seems!!

i flew to europe in March ..a 8 hour flight and the man behind me felt i should not be able to put my seat back..so he held his foot on the back of my seat preventing me from reclining the seat..

i called the flight attendant and asked that she tell the man to remove his feet from the back of my seat..he did until the f/a walked away ..then it was back to pushing my seat so it would not recline!

i had taken a tylenol to sleep with and i was forced to sit straight up for over 8 hours..because of this man's ignorance!

if the man wanted more leg room he should have flown business class or first class..and i told him so when we landed..i told him he was a pompus asshole

my best friend and her daughter sitting next to me slept the entire time reclined in their seats and i was miserable!

on our return flight a child screamed throwing a temper tantrum for 3 hours..literally screaming till the child turned red and blue..with barely breaths in between..making everyone in the cabin infuriated.

we have become such a me me society ..that we only give a rats ass about ourselves and to hell with everyone else.

now that is not everyone..but many of us!

I was a flight attendant..and i can tell you in the last 10 years people have just become downright ignorant in their behavior.

just look how people show up to travel today..

many people don't respect themselves, the way they come to the airport to travel..so why would they respect others?????


just before i retired i had a mother onboard who screamed at me because i would not allow her to put up her stroller for her child..she screamed at me awful..because she said her child could not go to sleep unless in the stroller..

well i don't know if you have ever looked at the size of the isle..if there is a stroller in the isle no one is getting through the isle..this lady didn't give a shit..she screamed and screamed at me..

and i said..no go..it is a FAA reg that nothing is in the isle..period..

she wrote a scathing letter to the airline complaining about me..so on my day off i had to go to the airport to explain myself..to a group of supervisors...

I was polite but firm..i never broke FAA regs..period..the rules are there for the safety of all the passengers..period

then i had an adult man who would not put his computer and papers under the seat for takeoff..he was in an emergency isle..i told him 10 times he had to put the stuff away..he refused..he was an older guy with a trophy gal with him so he was showing off..

so i told him he had one last time to put the stuff under the seat..he had a huge water bottle and when i turned around he squirted me..the whole back of me..

so i sweetly turned and took the bottle from his hand and told him when we landed he would be met by an FAA agent.
when we were leveled off, i made him sign a FAA paper that he broke FAA regs..or we would land and he would not only be arrested, but he would pay the landing fee as well..

i then had passengers around him sign as witnesses..

what he, nor i knew at the time.. was the Top Attorney for the D.C.State Dept was sitting next to him. When we landed this woman approached me and said it was the best she had seen any flight attend handle a situation like that..
the FAA met the plane..the guy got a 10,000 dollar fine and he was banned from flying any domestic airline for 10 years..

the State Dept attorney was a wonderful witness!!

oh... the stories i can tell..

but to be honest..it is parents ignorance that makes a childs flight a horrible experience.

bring stuff to amuse a child..quiet stuff..practice before you fly..saying we have to have whisper time...or use a whisper voice..practice it..make it a game...and read your child a book..one they have never seen before..

my child was on over 200 flts before he was 2 years old..and flew his whole life..and never once did he ever make noise..it was unexceptable for his mommy!! i read to him..i played hand games..and i told him what i expected of him on a plane...he knew he was not allowed to put his feet on the floor without my permission..this way he was never in the isles and posing a threat to himself or to others..

planes and children are dangerous..no one ever knows if or when you can hit turbulance..either regular or clear air turbulance...children not strapped in can be projected like a bullet in the right turbulance..

why people treat an aircraft different than their car blows my mind...one is going 60 mph and the other 500mph...

a severe drop in altitude could project a child to hit their heads on the ceiling and break their necks!

adults need to start acting like responsible adults..

i am not your childs parent ..you are ..act like it ..is what i tell those who i love.or are dear friends,who will be flying with children.

the safety of your child is your responsibility

but like i said..i never blame the child ..i blame the rudeness of parents..the irresponsibility of the adults..and parents..

a child is a product of their environment..and let me say..America..we need to get our shit together..

and we all need to start being more considerate of each other.

the rules aren't just for everyone else...rules are for all of us.

I can not say if that flight crew did the right thing..none of us were on that aircraft..

we do not know exactly what happened..so to judge is silly!..on either side ..the mom or the flight attendant

if the child was making everyone on that plane miserable..the flight crew has to think of the majority..

remember they are in a tube going in the air..there is no time out room...and angry people on an aircraft in that tube in the air can be a danger..so the majority have to be taken into consideration..

if you don't like those rules..take it up with the FAA..

not the flight crew.

fly

[Writer]

36. Wow. I wish there were a place I could pin this post so it will always be within eyeshot.

Bravo! :applause:

[Rosemary2205]

37. Your post REALLY needs it's own thread.

I recommended this thread ONLY because of your post.

[Catherine Vincent]

38. Great post fly!

What an asshole that guy was for blocking your seat with his feet!

[cboy4]

44. I have friend who are flight attendants, and I hear the stories. I know

it's a very hard job, and I give them lots of slack.

[marions ghost]

51. excellent post

"America we need to get our shit together. We all need to start being more considerate of each other..."

Amen, flyarm

Usually you can get away from children who are obnoxious. But not on a plane. I'd never let my child disturb other passengers. Wouldn't happen.

It's part of a larger pattern of behavior where even adults feel they have the right to bother other people. You see rudeness everyday. We DO need to get our shit together.

Some time ago my stepsister and husband came over with their two young kids, boy and girl, 9 & 7. While everyone was visiting these kids ran through the house, jumped on the furniture, kept up a general ruckus, ran completely wild for a couple of hours. They were literally hurling themselves at the sofa, pulling the cushions off etc. After waiting quite awhile, (mainly just to see how far the oblivious parents would let it go on) I finally had to tell the two of them to cut it out in no uncertain terms. They then continued to try to escalate it again. The visit was miserable for us. I will only discipline other people's children if the parents are not around.

This was insulting. It said very clearly, "I don't have to control my kids in your house." I'm pretty sure the parents wouldn't let them do that in houses of their important friends. These are rude kids growing up into rude, spoiled adults. I love kids in general but I associate these ones with mayhem and don't like to be around them.

Another sis has two kids, now older but very active when younger, no less than the 2 just described. The difference was that they were clearly taught that there are places you can do acrobatics and places you can't. They never jumped all over the furniture or ran wild. They curbed themselves in the house usually, because they were expected to.

[pnwmom]

54. We all probably have times we inadvertantly behave badly, at least,

in other people's eyes.

For example, I never recline my seat without first asking the person behind me if it's okay. I think that's the considerate thing to do. You obviously think otherwise.

The man who didn't want you to recline may well have been justified, if he needed the leg room. Why should your desire to recline take precedence over his need not to have his legs cramped? Why does defending his leg room make him a "pompous asshole"? As someone who's suffered a life-threatening blood clot after a plane flight, I'm on his side.

You say that he should have flown in business class or first class -- knowing of course that most people can't afford it. But you could do the same thing yourself, if reclining was so important to you.

Concerning the OP -- according to several independent witnesses in various newspaper reports, the toddler was NOT making a disturbance. The flight attendant over-reacted. She'd probably had a bad day, and so she took it out on the nearest target.

[flyarm]

74. wrong! you pay for a seat ..that seat has a very small degree of recline..

each and every passenger has the right..to recline their seat.

end of story!

since i have spent a liftime flying i did not want to cause a shit storm for the flight crew on that flight so other than asking the crew to tell the man to get his foot off my seat..i stayed nice ..and quiet..

the man under regs could have been issued a FAA citiation had i caused a shit storm.

i just didn't want to put that crew through that.

I knew F/C was full, as was buisness class..had it not been, i would have asked to be moved. and i would most likely been moved.

Understand , you buy your seat, but you must follow the regulations of the airline and FAA regulations and the crew!!

you are not entitled to impose yourself on another passenger! or their space.

my space was my seat and it's recline@

end of story..

again i could have caused a stir..but i chose not to..inflight...

I am certain had i been a man ..that man would have never pulled the shit he did!!..what he did not know is that i have been a flight crew for 33 years...i could have gotten him a FAA citation and his ass would have been in big trouble with the FAA!!

again..if you do not like the confines of a coach seat..upgrade!
but you do not have the right to disturb other passengers!! and their space.

fly

edit to add..if a passenger knows they have a medical problem, that leg space due to clots is a problem for them..it is the passengers responsibility to tell the airline at the time of booking their flight..

the first row of coach is usually reserved for passengers with medical problems such as you stated..it is not the other passengers responsibility to take care of your medical problems

and anyone with leg clot problems should not be flying!

You can be turned away from flying for medical problems, if it could cause a problem mid air.
Clots are nothing to mess with..i doubt any doctor would suggest someone with a clot problem should fly!


There are things that happen mid air.. as i said there is no time out room to send passengers or children to with behavior problems!

Consideration of others is in short supply anymore with Americans....men with long legs know they have long legs..they walk with them daily..and they sit with them daily...and if they want more leg room than 200 other people..then get your ass to the airport early and get an emergency exit row.. or when booking your flight make reservations aware of it..they usually, if possible, put those passengers in rows with a little extra leg space..

other passengers should not be made miserable because someone did not take their own responsibilites for themselves.

oh and the flight crew of your flight.. has the ultimate say over a situation..they are responsible for each and every passenger in that tube!!..and remember..your life may be in that crews hands..at any given moment..remember they may be your lifeline...

they are highly trained to save your life..they watch FAA accident films and read reports of incidences where people are injured or possibly killed mid air..they train for every possibility..to save your life.
They know why people died in accidents..they know how people died in accidents..

the rules you are told to abide by are tried and true..the rules and regs are there because someone before you died in an accident or incident because that rule or reg was not in place.

Flight crew for most all US carriers.. fight for rules and regs through their unions all the time..to save lives!! Your advocate is not the airline or the corporations..it is your flight crew!! and they take alot of shit for fighting for your safety!!

Flight crew want each and every person to get off an aircraft should there be an accident..it is what they exist for in the job..and they all take that very seriously as their #1 responsibility!

you may think it's your coke..or meal..it is not.

you may "think" you know better..you do not..

and they have the final say who is allowed on their aircraft!!..by law!




fly

oh and PS... flight crew have been fighting for years and years and years to make it mandatory that all babies and small children be in car seats ..the airlines and FAA refuse to make it mandatory..corporate decision..of course

I will never for the life of me understand responsible parents who strap their children into a car seat on the way to the airport and when they get off their flight..but not have a car seat for their child on an airplane..because they have to pay 1/2 the cheapest price for a seat for their child to be safe...

if you can not hold your child in a car accident at 60 mph..what makes you think you will be able to hold that child at 500mph running off a runway..or slamming into something???????????

get a cheaper hotel room on your vacation..get a cheaper rent a car..go to mc donalds..but don't go cheap on your childs safety..

the pictures your flight crew have seen and watched over and over again..are not pretty!!

[Berry Cool]

75. One small thing to add

While I agree with you in general, the reclining seat problem is one that has a domino effect.

It's often not so much leg room that is affected by seat reclining, but room for the top part of yourself.

Some buses and planes are designed with the seat rows crammed so close together than if the person in front of you wants to recline, that person's head is essentially in your lap or leaning against your chest. That means that to get any room at all YOU have to recline too, which means the person behind you also has to recline, right on down the line to the last person.

Guess what happens to the person in the last row? His seat is up against a back wall. He can't recline. He's stuck.

While I have all sympathy for people who want to recline their seats on a long trip, I think just doing it without asking the person sitting behind you is rude. I also think airlines should stop cramming rows so closely together just to fit in more passengers.

As for screaming kids or kids who repeat something to distraction, while I agree they are a fact of life, I think parents traveling with them owe it to their fellow passengers to either find a safe way to quiet them down or find another means by which to travel. I was on a bus with a screaming crying child not too long ago and thought I was going to go completely insane if the child did not stop. I think the screaming and crying lasted for a full hour if not more. I do not exaggerate.

Telling other passengers to "listen to your iPod" (which they aren't even permitted to do during takeoffs or landings...and that's assuming they HAVE one), or "put your nose in a book" (as if anyone can concentrate on reading with that noise!) or "just suck it up" is rude and thoughtless. Yes, children may be the future of all of us, but that shouldn't force us into situations where, through no fault of our own, we are trapped with other people's screaming, crying or repetitively chanting children with no chance of escape.

[flyarm]

78. most airlines reserve the last row for crew..unless the flight is sold out..

they are the last seats that are sold and assigned.

and all of that is configured for all the passengers..
fly cheap..you get cheap..what can i tell you??

cheaper airlines put more seats in their planes..
American Airlines has the most space between seats..

start demanding more space..but do it on the ground..

at 34,000 ft it is no time to figure out you do not have enough leg room!! especially if you know you have long legs..'

be responsible people!!

that is what i am saying..be responsible..

and be considerate!!

you did not pay for the person in front of your seat..they have the right to recline

if you have long legs..ask the person in front of you if they would mind not fully reclining..but do not think you have the "right" to stop them from reclining!!



8 years ago i had a man punch a lady in flight because she reclined her seat and disturbed his PC computer!!..the captain had to restrain the man with plastic cuffs..inflight..he went to jail for 1 year and can never fly a USA airline again..and he was fined $200,000.00

you have the right as a paying passenger to recline your seat ..period end of story!!

you are not in your own living room on that flight..it is "public" transportation ..that you pay for ..but you are not entitled to!

fly

[pnwmom]

97. The airline in question assigned me to one of the tiny seats in the last row.

When I made the reservation several weeks earlier, I told them I had long legs and needed an aisle seat, but there weren't any left. They told me to ask at the airport, which I did. So they assigned me the worst seat on the plane, obviously (I didn't know this till I got to the seat). They did this knowing that I needed more room.

Again, I'd like to see where in the regs it says passengers have the "right" to recline their seats.

[pnwmom]

94. Thank you for describing the seat situation so well.

That was exactly what happened to me when I developed the blood clot.

I had been put in the very last row against the wall, in a seat that was even narrower than normal (if you can imagine). The person in front of me basically had his head in my lap. There was nothing I could do but wiggle my feet and get up for a short walk whenever I saw a chance (which was seldom). I knew that you can get blood clots from coast to coast flights, so I was being normally cautious. But I didn't know that I was at particularly high risk.

Actually, I still don't, because when I was tested I turned out NOT to be one of the 20% who is predisposed to clots. I guess I can just thank the airline for my near death experience.

[pnwmom]

90. Up to 20% of the population has a genetic trait that predisposes to blood clots.

But most of the people with this problem don't find out till they have their first one -- if they survive it.

Are you suggesting that none of them should ever fly? How caring of you.

Your criticism of other people for not being considerate enough seems rather hypocritical.

P.S. Where can I find this regulation you cite that requires passengers to allow the seat in front of them to be reclined?

[flyarm]

107. CALL THE faa!!

AND PLEASE DO NOT IMPLY I AM BEING INCONSIDERATE..I AM TELLING YOU WHAT THE REGS ARE!! I DIDN'T MAKE THEM !!

and if you ever read the rules in the magazines on the aircraft or on your ticket cover it tells you to get up and stretch yourself!!

and the recline of most seats is a very small recline..it is safer for people to recline a bit that sitting straight up..for circulation ..

i agree 100% with you..and fought through my airline union that the last seats should be kept as crew seats..they are miserable as hell..

my airline did not have many of those type seats..but on the cheaper airlines..you get what you pay for in many cases..

as i said American Airlines gives alot more leg room than any other airline.

i do not know of any airline that does not have an online chart of the seating for the aircraft you are flying..it takes a minute to check it out..

pick the seat you want..and make sure if you have leg problems that youget a better seat..or take an earlier flight or a later one if you can not be accomidated on the flight you were booking..again the passengers responsibility.

the gate agent and the flight crew can do usually nothing to change where you are seated..

you booked it..check out where you are sitting!!

pretty simple today!!

most long legged people make sure they get seats that work for them''


sold out flights or people who book late...well you get what you get ..or change the flight you are taking..

no one can know what your problems are by guessing.

ask..

pretty simple..ask where your seat is..
speak up loud and clear!!

fly

[pnwmom]

120. From a neutral party: The Etiquette of Seat Backs and Elbow Room

http://www.independenttraveler.com/resources/article.cfm?AID=276&category=13

"We've all experienced it - no sooner do you fly over your car in the airport parking lot does the seatback in front of you slam back at full speed into full reclining position, bashing down against your knees. The passenger then rustles around to get comfortable, slamming against your knees again and again.

Or - you reach down in between your feet to pull out your headache medicine, and the seatback in front of you slams back on top of your noggin.

Or later in the flight - the meal cart comes and goes, but the seatback never does. The passenger in front of you leans forward over their meal so they can see it, forgetting that you can't see yours because it's buried under their seat back.

Or, as I once saw - the passenger in front of you has no other aisle mates, so they sprawl out across three seats, and to get even more comfortable, they put all three seatbacks in full reclining position! Uh, this is an airline, not a hotel...

No question, personal space is at a premium on airplanes. I believe there is a time for upright seats, there is a time for reclining fully. Everything in its season, I read somewhere. Here's my opinionated guide to the Etiquette of Reclining Seatbacks. "

SNIP

[Nevernose]

166. So tall people shouldn't fly either?

I'm 6'3", and when you lean back, it's a serious inconvenience. You ARE touching me. In most states, if you touch me without permission, that's battery. I also have an 11 year old daughter -- old enough to shut the hell up when she's supposed to, but not old enough to sit anywhere where there's decent leg room, usually. I have the right to sit without being banged against -- and sometimes it's inconsiderate adults who do the banging. If one can't stand to be upright for eight hours, then maybe it's that person that shouldn't be on the plane?

Regulations and rules don't make something okay. For instance, most of George Bush's rules and regulations have been perfectly legal. Most of them, anyway.

And the man under regs could have been issued a "shit storm?" Can a person not even cross their own legs, or expect to have enough room to do so?

BTW: I'm with you on the kids issue. The people manning a plane should have total control. People who are inconsiderate of others, even young people, should not be allowed to fly. But isn't that consideration of others due to everyone? Just because the rules say one can, is that a reason one can bother the people in the seat behind them?

What I'm ultimately trying to say is: your rights end when another person's are being infringed.

[cwydro]

68. Bravo!

[BelleCarolinaPeridot]

70. Best Response To A Thread EVER !

:yourock:

[dansolo]

79. "if the child was making everyone on that plane miserable..."

The other passengers who were seated nearby all said that the child was not disruptive.

[pnwmom]

98. That little fact doesn't seem to matter to many of the posters here

who seem to be jumping to conclusions based on their predisposition to dislike children.

[flyarm]

113. as i said...

from my previous post:
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I can not say if that flight crew did the right thing..none of us were on that aircraft..

we do not know exactly what happened..so to judge is silly!..on either side ..the mom or the flight attendant

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

and none of us know what the situation was..period..

many people that bitch ..do not want the person they are complaining about to know they were complaining!!
i personally have experienced that thousands of times with passengers!!

you only know about those coming forward for the passengers side of the situation..you do not know if anyone has come forward who could have complained!!

the incident will be investigated..if the flight attend was wrong that person will be held responsible for the incident! i assure you of that!!

( personally i would never suggest a child be given meds..i do think that goes over the line..but i do not know what Continential has in their regulations in that matter ) ..but i know sometimes passengers ask for advice..

i always steared clear of that ..and my airline did not want us giving advice ..or even asprins or tylenol out!! period!..flight crew are not doctors or nurses!!

My dog traveled more than most adults..and my dog was always given meds to fly....but my child was never given meds to fly!! ever!

i just don't believe in it..but that is me..different strokes for different folks...


fly

[lolly]

39. OK, Bring on the flames

But I have used Benedryl on flights to keep toddlers sleepy.

It has the added benefit of helping to keep them from getting congested so there is less ear pain.

Works better on red-eye flights or at least evening flights.

[U4ikLefty]

40. Which is worse: snakes on a plane, or screaming babies on a plane???

Is that too obscure to be funny???

Sorry in advance.

[cutlassmama]

41. Screaming babies on a plane

I've taken numerous flights all across the U.S. Without exception there has never been one that didn't have a screaming baby on it. I truly wish there more flight attendants like this one!

[U4ikLefty]

42. ...but the important question is:

did you get the joke???

Please say yes, please say yes, please say yes.

No pressure...lol!!!

[Rosemary2205]

45. I did - and LOL'd

:)

[LisaL]

96. I second that. A lot of times when I fly there is one screaming crying

baby or another. I didn't know they could be kicked of the plane for that.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

125. I think it's because their ears hurt.

Many babies and toddlers have very sensitive, infection prone ears and changes in altitude can disturb them greatly. When I suggested that it might be wise to avoid taking them flying upthread, I got reamed out for it by indignant parents who refuse to have their gawd-given right to parade their trophies uh... I mean...babies to out-of-state relatives challenged. Clearly their vanity trumps everything, even their children's well-being.

[Bill McBlueState]

162. it's not about vanity

From first-hand experience, I'll say that you're underestimating the importance of children spending time with their physically distant but biologically close relatives. That's all.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

170. And I think you're overestimating it.

Also, as an adoptee, I'm a little bemused by the "biologically close" bit. Your family is who loves and cares for you, not just who you are related to by blood. But as to your point, why can't the relatives fly out to see the baby, if they are able to?

[Warren DeMontague]

181. Well, people should know better than to breed in the first place.

:sarcasm:

[Toasterlad]

73. I Have HAD It With These Motherfucking Snakes on This Plane!

Sam Jackson rules.

[U4ikLefty]

139. LOL...that is the line I was looking for.

Thanks.

[marzipanni]

43. After flying from San Francisco to Boston with my son when he was 3,

as the passengers stood up when the plane stopped at the gate, the woman in front of us told me he had been bumping his feet against the back of her seat. We had our tables down a lot so we could keep occupied, and he was quiet, I just didn't notice what his feet were doing. I apologized, and told her if she had mentioned it to me during the flight I would have done something about it. I was kind of miffed that it didn't seem to be disturbing enough to tell me when I could have done something, but she had to complain about it when there was nothing I could do.
Previously, on the same long S.F.- Boston haul when he was almost 1, at the end of the flight everyone around us commented on what a good baby he was- no crying at all. I don't think the young businessman next to us noticed that I stuck my son under my shirt a couple of times, but nursing sure helps a baby take a nap!
Breastfeeding in public!! :wow: ;)

[U4ikLefty]

56. I, and most flyers don't care about nursing breasts unless

them mammaries start screeching loud noises.

Then maybe the rest of the passengers may ask you to leave the plane...get it???

Also, if your kid was kicking the back of my seat, he would've gotten about 5 minutes after takeoff to stop that bullshit.

I would hope that you would be embarrassed by your kids behavior, but instead you were "miffed" at the other adult for showing "tact"...hmmm

Did you at least learn to keep a better eye on you kid after that???

[pnwmom]

58. She was embarrassed, obviously, that was the point.

If the person was going to complain, it should have been done while the behavior was ongoing, so the alerted parent could have stopped it. Why should the complainer sit there, getting angrier and angrier, when s/he could have helped to end the situation by saying something earlier?

[U4ikLefty]

60. ...but did she keep a closer eye on her kid???

I mean that was a multi-hour flight (most-likely) & she didn't notice her own childs behavior??? Where was her attention for many hours??? C'mon, you know she may come back & say the kid was 10 seats away or some other such bullshit to protect the bratty behavior, but we know better. Are you blaming the small plastic table for her sight-distance problems??? Oh wait, I get it that table is made of anti-parent kryptonite!!!

[Katherine Brengle]

66. Are you SERIOUS?

She was "miffed" because the woman felt the need to complain when the flight was over rather than early on when the problem could have been taken care of.

[pnwmom]

57. I've noticed that young women these days seem a lot more confidant

about nursing in public these days than I was. I'm glad for them.

[Katherine Brengle]

62. People need to suck it up and accept that children exist.

We treat our kids like luggage, an inconvenience, in this country (as a whole).

The mother was right to refuse to medicate - the kid was being a kid - and children die every year from being medicated like that.

[U4ikLefty]

112. Parents need to suck it up & take responiblilty for their kids behavior

If they cannot behave, the kid & parent may be escorted out.

Easy enough.

[madmom]

67. if there is a problem with kids flying why not make kids-free flights

or keep kids from flying all together, the airline allowed the kid on the flight in the first place, they should know kids are not "seen and not heard", if you don't like it turn up your earphones, stick your nose in a book or next time ask for a flight with no kids on it!

[aikoaiko]

83. It sounds like the flight attendant screwed up -- but on the other hand I don;t fly with my toddler

I won't fly with my kid until he can control himself more. Right now, when he freaks out or has a meltdown there is nothing that will stop it (except for a Thomas the Train dvd, sometimes(. It would be nice to visit family, but flying with a kid is just too much of a hassle.

[breakaleg]

85. I've flown with my child since he was 1. At 2 he began the first of many long haul

flights - 12 hours each way. It's a ridiculous suggestion that children of that age should not be allowed to fly.

[U4ikLefty]

117. Who actually suggested that in this thread???

Maybe I missed it.

Becaue this is NOT what people like me want.

We just want parents to take responsibilty for their kids behavior...like good parents do.

[breakaleg]

124. You, for starters. see post #23. "spawn" indeed...

[Pavulon]

86. 3 sides to every story

Bottom line, you can be removed from a flight for any reason.

If she gave the FA shit she could be bounced.

I here her side here, but not the rest.

I fly with noise canceling headsets or firing range quality ear protection for just this reason.

Babys, drunks, nervous people who freak out when the plane hits turbulence are all drowned out. I will ask a person to stop their kid from kicking my seat, politely of course.

[THUNDER HANDS]

87. how much money is a plane ticket nowadays?

I mean, this woman and her kid weren't taking the bus, shelling out $2 for a ride across town.

She, and the people around her, paid probably over $100, if not hundreds of dollars, for that ticket. They should at the very least get a quiet, peaceful flight to their destination.

They paid for that.

I really think there should be a separate area on planes, trains, busses, ect, for people with kids. Somewhere in a sound-proof area or something.

[Katherine Brengle]

110. If the kid was older than 2 years, then she paid for that ticket as well.

Public transportation is just that - public. Kids are just as entitled to use it as adults and once they are over 2, they pay full price for plane tickets.

[phylny]

116. Yes, and I would also like a separate section for obese people,

for men who have to spread their legs so that they encroach into my space, for people who have to hog the armrests, um, let's see...oh, I want one for people who eat loudly, who insist on talking to me on a flight when I want to read, and for those who fall asleep and snore.

[madmom]

129. also for people who wear too much perfume,...choke,choke,gag

:nopity:

[AlCzervik]

93. have we heard anything about this from other passengers or someone from the airline?

i'm not passing any judgment until i at least hear something from the other side or from fellow passengers.

[LisaL]

95. That is so bizarre. I was recently flying and the baby next

to me was crying like crazy but his parents weren't kicked out.
Listening to that baby cry for hours was very annoying, I must add, and no escape.

[Ms. Toad]

169. You must have been on the same flight I was on

A toddler cried for three hours straight, mom and dad sat in front of the row of seats with the screaming toddler - leaving older (around 6) sibling to sit next to the screaming toddler and do any parenting. The kid on my plane actually screamed longer than 3 hours since the screaming started before they boarded the plane - mom took the screaming kid to a carpeted area in the midst of a crowd, plunked the kid down, and let her wail. When pre-boarding was called, they picked her up, loaded her on the plane without a break in the screaming.

I'd have loved to have the child babbling "bye-bye plane" for three hours...

Taking a screaming child into on an enclosed space in which other people will be trapped with the screams for hours, when it is predictable that the child will continue to scream, is unacceptable. With the child on my flight, the screaming was obviously a pattern of behavior (based on mom's, dad's, and sibling's nonchalant response to the pre-boarding screaming session). Alternate transportation arrangements should have been made rather than subject a plane full of people to extended screaming - a different matter entirely than an unpredictable reaction to changes in pressure.

The flight attendant (and folks bothered) in connection with the reported babbling incident in the OP - assuming it has been reported accurately - need to take a chill pill.

Disclaimer: My daughter flew a half dozen times between the ages of 1 and 3, and was a quiet, well behaved traveler - and had no reaction at all to changes air pressure. I wouldn't dream of suggesting that children below a certain age should not fly - there are other factors which are much more closely related to pressure related pain in flight than age. BUT if my daughter's temperament had been different than it was, we would have found alternate transportation if the schedule permitted, or skipped some of the travel if time was too tight.

[rosesaylavee]

100. That is nuts.

Have we all become so disconnected that we can't tolerate slight disturbances to routine? This is how toddlers are in the best of times.

I hope she sues. And I will remember when booking future flights that I would prefer NOT to fly Continental again given how they treat their customers. This would have had taken the approval of the pilots as well as the terminal personnel at that airline to agree to send the plane back to the terminal.

Despicable.

[TwilightGardener]

111. You know, the flight attendant sounds like she overreacted, but

Mom should have at least made some visible efforts to quiet/divert the kid. Having other passengers say, "No, he's not bothering me at all" is meaningless, because most people are polite and aren't going to say, "Yeah, shut that rugrat up!" That doesn't mean the kid wasn't driving them fucking crazy. I am picturing a little pipsqueak voice in a confined space saying "Bye bye plane! Bye bye plane! Bye bye plane! Bye bye plane!" over and over, and yeah, I can see how someone with little patience can be driven over the edge.

[RedCappedBandit]

114. Whats more annoying?

A loud kid, or a plane being turned around? I'd rather deal with the kid, ffs..

[Rosa Luxemburg]

115. happened to me many years ago

A group of women and the flight attendants were complaining that my son was crying too much.

[HuffleClaw]

123. she went on GMA with her toddler who was a 'tad' disruptive

i don't think she helped her case any. it was funny though.

[WyLoochka]

140. A "tad" disruptive?

He was climbing on the table and shoving things off of it - even toys he was given to entertain himself with. His "uncle" had to come on the set to try to settle him down, as his mother appeared to be completely incapable of having any influence over the child at all. Every time she tried to hold him to quiet him he got cranky and squirmed to get away from her - successfully. Finally the "uncle" apparently had to take him off the set.

This kid appeared to be one of those "extra challenging" personality types, at least on the video clip. Making him the focus of a "my poor little kid" media campaign will not help her develop the parenting skills to help him curb his obnoxiousness. It's likely to make the problem worse, as she will remain in denial that this is one of her prime responsibilities.

Last month I flew to Orlando and of course there were numerous children on the plane. One girl of approximately two years age lunged to open the door behind the cockpit screaming "I want to get off the plane" over and over again at 35,000 feet. It took a long long time for the parents to get control over her.

When landing we went through some considerable turbulence. Another two year old - a boy - must have thought he was already on a ride at Disney World as he kept gleefully shouting "whoopee" through every jolt to the plane. His father did try and finally managed to shut him up before some white knuckler - perhaps me - shouted out "this is NOT fun - shut that kid up!"

18 months through three years? Probably best to avoid taking them on planes, if at all possible.

[MissB]

146. Shoving toys off the table to make them disappear from sight

and then going to retrieve the toy is completely developmentally appropriate for that age. It wasn't misbehaving at all. If he'd actually sat there sedately in his mother's lap in a new environment (the set of the show with all the cool cameras and the crowds) I'd be concerned. I'm not at all sure how she was supposed to use a perfectly appropriate technique - redirection - while giving an interview. :rofl:

I'm still chuckling over the sheer number of people who think that a toddler *should* sit down and shut up.

[WyLoochka]

151. Did I use the word "misbehave?"

No, I did not. I just think parents who do not have an urgent and compelling reason to take toddlers on a plane should avoid the experience until later, if at all possible, due to the "developmental" stage they are in during those couple of short years.

And don't drag them onto teevee sets either. The mother is an ignorant cow.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

171. Oh but...but...apparently every flight is urgent and compelling

Least that's what I've been told when I suggested the same thing. I had no idea so many people had to fly babies out to see dying grandparents! It's practically, like, every baby you see on a flight, according to what some on this thread would have you believe. :eyes:

[WyLoochka]

154. Every one should sit down

and shut up while on a plane. If your kid isn't old enough to respect and understand that - drive or stay home.

[cureautismnow]

141. I'd be thrilled to tears ...

... if my autistic 4-year-old could string together a 3-word sentence. Indeed, I'd be tickled pink to be thrown off the plane for his talking! Sheesh. :eyes:

[Cobalt-60]

153. it was the lump in his diaper they feared

talk about your dirty bombs...

[Nikki Stone1]

161. I am on the side of the flight attendant

Since 9/11, these poor people have lost income, union protections, and decent schedules. Since 9/11, they are now responsible for making sure someone doesn't take a boxcutter to your throat or pack a Gatorade with a liquid explosive.

If you can't gently quiet your child so the flight attendant can get through the security lecture, that is required by law and that passengers like me listen to, then don't fly. Drive your SUV or take a nice scenic train ride, where you can make some stops along the way, and take the kids to the dining car.

Planes are pressure cookers as it is. A toddler repeating "Bye bye plane" endlessly will doubtless annoy some passengers, and if the kid talks through the security lecture, he might interfere with some important information. And a parent who refuses to comply with multiple requests from a flight attendant is opening herself and her child up to some kind of censure. In my opinion, the attitude of this mother was off base. She basically told the flight attendant that the entire plane had to put up with her kid, and that she wasn't going to do anything about it. A more apologetic attitude, even WITH the "bye bye plane" might have kept that mother and her kid on board.

[Warren DeMontague]

180. I think you should read more about the story. It doesn't sound like the other passengers agree.

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=local&id=5472927

http://www.todaysthv.com/news/news.aspx?storyid=48906

Adults are supposed to be able to put up with things they don't like and adapt to situations- even overworked flight attendants, who are paid to do so. The mother couldn't "gently quiet" her 19 month old.... go figure! Got any kids? Or any 19 month olds you take care of regularly?

Doubt it.

She didn't "refuse to comply", she couldn't get her kid to stop talking, and she didn't want to drug him. If it was a baby that wouldn't stop crying, would you be able to grasp the situation? Or would you expect that the flight attendant should be able to "order" the mom to "make" the baby stop?

As for "take your SUV". Nice little snarky shot you threw in under the buzzer, there. Yeah, all parents are SUV-drivin' yuppies.

:eyes:

As for the flight attendant, she deserves to be fired. Period.

[WillyT]

172. Ah... Yup...