BIG ! Russia withdraws from arms treaty!

[Phrogman]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/07/14/russia.treaty.ap/index.html

MOSCOW, Russia (AP) -- Russia on Saturday suspended its participation in a key European arms control treaty that governs deployment of troops on the continent, the Kremlin said, a move that threatened to further aggravate Moscow's already tense relations with the West.

Putin said Russia had withdrawn from the treaty because of "extraordinary circumstances" affecting the country's security.

President Vladimir Putin signed a decree suspending Russia's participation in the Conventional Forces in Europe Treaty due to "extraordinary circumstances ... which affect the security of the Russian Federation and require immediate measures," the Kremlin said in a statement.

[flyarm]

1. wow what does this mean?? what does Putin know??

does anyone think Putin thinks we are going to hit Iran..and he is going to side with Iran..or what??

i just don't know how to read this ..especially since he was just up in Maine with the idiot in the White House....

is this bad for us ( i think it is very bad) ..chertoff..my gut is now screaming...and it is not screaming nice..

anyone know??or have a better idea than i do??

thanks..fly

[Whoa_Nelly]

4. Does this have anything to do with Putin's recent visit with Chimpy?

gotta wonder....

[orleans]

6. of course it does! n/t

[SpiralHawk]

12. "Thanks a pantload, Commander AWOL" - America's soldiers

"And a double pantload of thanks to the vP clown with Five Freaking Military Deferments, Cheney. Who ever thought a deserter and a five-time wimp-out deferer should be placed in charge of our honest and honorable troops."

- America's honorable sons and daughters in uniform

[madokie]

13. sure it did

I don't think Putie poot likes being strong armed as he is being done by the bush* cabal. there's lots more money for bushco* with another cold war with Russia and we mustn't forget its all about the money with these war criminals, life itself means nothing to them.

[drm604]

8. Iran was what I thought of.

He may be concerned about Russia's oil supply. This looks especially bad considering the recent meeting. I wonder if he came to tell Bush to keep his hands off of Iran, and Bush refused to promise anything?

[John Q. Citizen]

22. Russia has it's own oil supply. This is about the Senates vote on Iran and

about the missle defense that bush wants and the Dems are silent on.

Russia is a major oil exporter. But they have close ties to Iran and they aren't going to sit by and watch the American Empire continue to march across the world.

[lefador]

11. It has nothing to do with Iran...

You have the USA boldly claim that "you are either with us or against us, and if not we will bomb your ass." Only an American would be naive enough to think that anyone else in the world would reduce their arsenals in a time where such a player like the US is going rogue.

Iran will never happen, and if they do attack Iran... then this administration will be definitively on a fast track ticket to the nearest mental asylum. Iran is one of the largest providers of Oil to China. The US attacking Iran will be the last straw that would actually unite the Shia and Sunny countries surrounding Iraq and Iran. The troops in Iraq would become sitting ducks... the Iranians have the missiles to blow all the carrier groups in the gulf out of the water. The US military is over extended, and honestly since we are borrowing money we don't have to fight, we are indeed a paper tiger. This is what Putin and the rest of the world knows.

Russia, the EU and China are beefing up their militaries. And the power play is easier than that, and has nothing to do with Iran. This administration is not trying to bring the rapture or any such nonsense, if they were god fearing men the rapture would be the last thing they would try to bring as they would get a one-way ticket to hell. I personally don't think they believe much in anything other than money, religion is an easy tool for them to control the last 30% of idiots still following them, and 1/3 of the population is still significant to enable them to cement their foothold on power.

This administration is moved by a simpler motive: $$$. Having a quagmire in Iraq allows them to:
a) Exploit patriotism to further their domestic agenda; we are at war, so shut up!
b) It makes it easier to funnel our hard earned tax dollars to their buddies.
c) It becomes easier to control people, people are either too busy with three jobs trying to make end's meet or are too busy trying to to get killed over in whatever pointless war d'jour this administration comes up with.

However, their unmitigated greed of the members of this administration is only met by their unmitigated stupidity. I think of this administration as the dumb offspring of a crime family: they are too dumb since they did not went through the natural selection of surviving the ascension to power in a crime family from the ground up, but they have the same greed and rotten nature as their progenitors.

What the US is doing is borrowing hand over fist to fight a war we can't afford. Who is giving us this money? Very simple; Japan, the EU, the Saudis, and China. The EU is fairly tired of having to deal with some petulant bunch of uncultured lowlifes thinking they own the place, and most of the money markets are controlled by them. Sorry kiddos but the old powers that be never went away, they cleaned their act and they learned to be patient and work together. So they are giving us money, and in exchange we are giving -literally- the country away. In the process we are borrowing money to literally destroy our own military. The only thing holding the powers that be at bay, was the fact that we had the biggest toys and if we find out that our top position in the pyramid was challenged we would throw quite the temper tantrum.

Once the army is filed down to a useless bunch of ragamuffins in cammo, then the people lending us money can ask for their investment back. Once Americans become petulant, they will asks us: you and what army? And it will be funny to see the average American moron scratching their heads on how this happened. Then, the Chinese will be able to control their own politics and secure the stability of their mixed communist/capitalist system. The Japanese will be able to tell us to fuck off for good. The Europeans will be able to regain their influences and secure the markets that we used to control. The Saudis will be the de-facto power brokers for the Middle East that is more eager to deal with China and the EU directly and not having to deal with imposed politics as the Americans, Russia wants to be relevant in this new paradigm, and since they have almost unlimited natural resources they want to make sure they control their cards for their world position. Basically we will see a sort of 4-point power plane in the future: A Shino-Japanese axis in the Far East balanced probably with a strong Indian contingent, which will become basically the market plane for the world. The Saudis will be the center of power for the Muslim world, again this will be balanced with a strong Iran backed by China. This will be a temporary power position as their only source of power comes from petroleum, I assume once that dries out the position of power will be more spiritual than anything. All of these foci of power will be tied together by a strong EU which will manage the movement of goods and will be backed by their presence (cultural and physical) in America, Africa, and parts of Asia. And then this power center in Europe will also be balanced by a strong Russia which will control a significant portion of the raw materials. Most importantly we will be seeing a sort of production/distribution powerhouse in the EU (materials from Russia, made in the EU, bought by Asia), large Asian markets. The United States in a few years will become irrelevant... I just need to figure out how our nuclear arsenal will become neutralized. But a similar scenario to the dissolution of the former Soviet Union may arise, a lot of people thought the Communist system in the former USSR would be preserved due to the nuclear arsenal holding things in place. Yet, the transition was able to take place w/o the whole thing going nuclear. We will be an important market of course, but politically will be left in the dust. As most other people in the world see themselves having more in common with each other than with the US, case in point everyone in the world follows soccer... no one cares about American Football.

[Horse with no Name]

20. I read (don't have link available) here that if we start a war with Iran

That Russia and China will support Iran.
I have a feeling that MANY other countries will choose to remain neutral and sit this World War out.
We will be completely isolated.
These fucking Republicans will be BEGGING the Mexicans that they so despise to "give us a hand" cause I guaranfuckingtee our Northern neighbors won't be helping us out.

[krispos42]

2. Saber rattling

And at some point, somebody is going to draw.

Well, at least I'm in the midwest, surrounded by crops and game, so when the button is pushed I should be in pretty good shape.

[flyarm]

9. remember the biggest missle heads are in missouri , kansas and nebraska!!

in the middle of farms!!

i know i used to live there

remember the movie..made for tv i think..the last day..or something like that..it was about Kansas getting hit with a nuke..

sleep tight..don't let the bed bugs bite!!'

fly

[krispos42]

10. Pshaw...

I was born and raised in Fairfield County, CT... the one adjacent to the NYC metro area and itself full of defense-related industries. If one of the Russians has pressed the button I would have been dead pretty damn quickly. Nukes aimed at Ratheon, Sikorsky, Pratt&Whitney, or just New York in general would have reduced me to a whisp of ozone and carbon dioxide anyway!

Where I'm moving to in a couple of weeks... well, if somebody nukes THAT place they must really hate, ummmmm...


Outdoor recreation, maybe.



Oh, and corn.

:-)

[bananas]

14. "Where the Bombs Are"

These are just some of the sites targetted...
http://www.fas.org/blog/ssp/2006/11/

[laruemtt]

19. once they start flying,

there will be no place to hide in the entire world. there will be NO crops in short order. i've got my copy of Final Exit ready.......

[MuseRider]

15. They are all over the freaking place

out here. "The Day After" is the movie.

When I was a little kid I remember my parents poo pooing all the nuclear defense stuff we were getting in the schools. Duck and Cover was stupid but getting home from school seemed important to me as a grade schooler but my parents refused to sign all that stuff since, as they told me, we would go too fast to worry about it. I had many nightmares as a kid :(.

[antimindcrime]

21. "The Day After" :)

Not to be confused with "The day after tommorow" ;)

Saw that movie too...very disturbing, and that was modeled after an 'olden days' model of the US (as this newer generation would call it). I shudder to think what mcdonalds America, Internet America, paris hilton America, would do in the situation.

[Botany]

3. this comes 100% from bush stupidty

putting missiles and such around Russia in eastern europe & gutting the ABM treaty

Impeach his ass now

[NMDemDist2]

5. where have you been?

I read that on DU two days ago

:rofl:

[melody]

7. This is just "we will bury you" stuff -- shoe-pounding, et al

Alpha males venting their spleen.

Pooty-Poot and Pissypants were way too chummy looking at their seaside rendezvous for there
to be some looming military crisis.

[Tesla]

16. Just the mere thought of him

representing our Country is disgraceful!
Run Al Run!

[HughMoran]

17. I guess lil' Bush wasn't able to calm Putin down

I can imagine Putin wanted to strangle the petulant little moron by the end of the meeting :rofl:

[live love laugh]

18. COPYCAT!: "...extraordinary circumstances" affecting the country's security..."

Pootie is a copycat. :crazy:

[CGowen]

23. FT.com

Russia’s bluff

Published: July 15 2007 20:38 | Last updated: July 15 2007 20:38

For months Vladimir Putin has been in a truculent mood. Ever since he attacked the US and Nato at the Munich security conference in February for trampling on his national interests, he has been spoiling for a fight. Although he is not allowed to stand for re-election next year, he knows the nationalist card plays well with Russian voters. His allies in the state duma will benefit. So will his protégé for the presidency, whoever that may be. But the rest of the world should be careful not to overreact.

On Saturday Mr Putin signed a decree suspending Russia’s role in the Conventional Forces in Europe treaty, which limits the number of tanks, artillery and combat aircraft that can be based between the Atlantic and the Urals. He had already threatened to do so in retaliation for US plans to site missile defence installations in Poland and the Czech Republic. It is a negative gesture, although it may make little difference in the real world. Nobody wants to restart an arms race, not even Mr Putin. But abrogating the treaty will stop arms inspections and undermine confidence. Nato should regret the gesture, but not seek to retaliate. That would be playing Mr Putin’s game.

More difficult is the case of the UK-Russia row over the murder of Alexander Litvinenko, the former KGB officer who was poisoned with radioactive polonium-210 in London last November. It bore all the signs of a Russian execution. The UK government is bound to do everything in its power to ensure that such a crime never happens in Britain again. The Crown prosecutor says he has sufficient evidence to prosecute another Russian former agent, Andrei Lugovoi – but the Russian constitution forbids extradition of any Russian national, so there is a stalemate.

The trouble is that cold war attitudes prevail. The Kremlin has encouraged silly stories suggesting British intelligence committed the crime. It has done little to help the investigation, for example by tracing the source of the polonium.
..........

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/064ac446-3302-11dc-a9e8-0000779fd2ac.html

[MetaTrope]

24. Bush, dealer in death, versus international treaties

http://www.tradeobservatory.org/tdb_execsummary.cfm

President George W. Bush has been particularly reluctant to participate in the multilateral treaty system. Thus far, President Bush has signed six treaties—the fewest of any president since the five signed during President Reagan's first term—and none of the six treaties forwarded by President Bush to the U.S. Senate for consideration has been ratified to date. More importantly, President Bush has reversed U.S. support for at least six major treaties by:

- Ending U.S. involvement in the Kyoto Protocol on climate change negotiations.
- Violating the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty by developing new nuclear weapons and negotiating a new pact with Russia that does not comply with its terms.
- Pulling out of the negotiations for a verification protocol under the Convention on Biological and Toxin Weapons, effectively halting all further talks under this treaty.
- Reversing a prior U.S. commitment to ratify the Landmine Convention by 2006.
- Withdrawing from the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty.
- Nullifying the obligations of the U.S. signature on the International Criminal Court. 2

President Bush is the first president to nullify the United States' signature from a multilateral treaty and the first leader of a major power to withdraw from a nuclear treaty after it became legally binding.