I need help on military experience of Dem 08 candidates.

[Rosemary2205]

No purpose in this really other than to request help as fact checkers. Thanks

In no particular order

-----------------------

Chris Dodd - Peace corps 1966 - 1968. U.S. Army Reserve, 1968-1975

Is that accurate and does anyone know how he managed to stay out of Vietnam?

--------------

Barack Obama - no military service

---------------

Hillary Clinton - no military service

-------------

Bill Richardson - no military service

------------

Joe Biden - no military service

------------

John Edwards - no military service

------------

Dennis Kucinich - no military service

-----------

Mike Gravel - US Army 1951-1954 in West Germany - special agent with intelligence

[babylonsister]

1. I just went and checked out Biden, found something else I didn't know:

And no mention of military service:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Biden

In 1966, while in law school, Biden married Neilia Hunter. They had three children, Joseph R. III (Beau), Robert Hunter, and Amy. His wife and infant daughter died in an automobile accident shortly after he was first elected to the U.S. Senate. His two young sons, Beau and Hunter, were seriously injured in the accident, but both eventually made full recoveries. Biden was sworn into office from their bedside. Persuaded not to resign in order to care for them, Biden began the practice of commuting an hour and a half each day on the train from his home in the Wilmington suburbs to Washington, DC.

[napi21]

7. That's true HE didn't ever serve in the military, but has been on the

juiciary committee since the 70's and his oldest son serves in the JAG Corps in the Army National Guard. That's better credentials than most of the other candidates have!

[TahitiNut]

2. Hillary never even registered for the draft.

:dunce:

[sarge43]

6. Plus, at that time there was the 2% cap.

Only 2% of the active duty force could be female. In 1962 my recruiter told me that for every woman selected for the AF, ten were denied due to the cap. It wasn't lifted until the draft was canceled.

[TahitiNut]

3. Kucinich - Rejected for military service because of a heart murmur.

http://www.democratic-candidates.org/profiles/democratic-presidential-candidate-Dennis-Kucinich-profile.php/

[TahitiNut]

4. Biden - Rejected on medical grounds.

Read all about all of them ...

http://www.democratic-candidates.org/comparisons/compare-democratic-presidential-candidates-military.php

[Rosemary2205]

12. THANKS

I appreciate the link muchly. :)

[sarge43]

5. Well, all the biographies say Army Reserve

As far as 'staying out of Vietnam', much would depend upon his MOS (job). If it were a non-combat one, unlikely he would have gone.

[TahitiNut]

10. Corrected post: Guard/Reserve activations were limited during Vietnam

It was different then. :shrug:

LBJ decided AGAINST activating Guard and Reserve units. Some of those guardsmen/reservists who were activated actually filed suit. Less than 20,000 Reserve and Guard soldiers were called up in 1968 and
approximately 12,500 deployed to Vietnam.

The Vietnam War delayed implementation of the new policy. It also distorted Army Reserve and National Guard development by flooding both with recruits eager to avoid the draft and possible duty in Vietnam. President Lyndon B. Johnson, despite the advice of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, refused to mobilize reserve components. Johnson relented with a limited call‐up in 1968. Forty‐two Army Reserve units answered the call (nearly 8,000 men), 32 of which went to Vietnam. Nearly all the units were detachments or companies providing support services.
http://www.answers.com/topic/army-reserves-and-national-guard

No massive call-ups of National Guard troops occurred to meet the country's military manpower requirements during the Vietnam War. Mobilization of large numbers of Guardsmen would have been inconsistent with President Lyndon B. Johnson's attempt to portray the war as a limited conflict that could be fought with resources already available to the regular Army. Johnson chose to rely on an increased draft and a one-year tour of duty rotation policy to fight the Vietnam War instead of activating significant numbers of National Guardsmen.

The popular perception that National Guardsmen were not used in Vietnam, however, is incorrect. On May 13, 1968, in response to the Lunar New Year (Tet) communist attacks on South Vietnam, President Johnson activated 20 Army National Guard combat units and 12 combat support and combat service support units. Of the 12,234 mobilized, 2,729 reported to Vietnam with their units. Of the 9,505 initially remaining in the United States, 4,311 subsequently were assigned to Vietnam, bringing the total number of mobilized Army Guard members in the Republic of Vietnam to 7,040. All Army Guard units were released from active duty by December 12, 1969. Included among the more than 4,000 awards earned by Army Guard members in Vietnam were 55 Silver Stars, 681 Purple Hearts, one Distinguished Flying Cross, 16 Distinguished Service Medals, six Legions of Merit, and over 1,000 Bronze Stars.

Company D (Ranger) of the 151st Infantry, Indiana Army National Guard arrived in country in December of 1968. The Indiana Rangers were assigned reconnaissance and intelligence-gathering missions. Operating deep in enemy territory, Ranger patrols engaged enemy units while conducting raids, ambushes and surveillance missions. "Delta Company" achieved an impressive combat record; unit members earned 510 medals for valor and service.

Many National Guard units not mobilized for the Vietnam War saw action of a different sort during the 1960s. Beginning with Newark, New Jersey in 1964, racially motivated riots broke out in many large American cities. Units of the National Guard were called out to stop burning and looting in Los Angeles, Washington, D.C., Detroit, and a host of other cities. As the anti-war movement gathered momentum in the late 1960s, Guardsmen were called out to maintain order during large demonstrations.

Secretary of Defense Melvin Laird explained the new "Total Force Concept" in a press conference on 21 August 1970. Laird explained that the president's requested reductions of defense expenditures would require reductions in all facets of the active forces and increased reliance on the combat and combat support units of the National Guard and the Reserves. He further stated that "a total force concept (would) be applied in all aspects of planning, programming, manning, equipping, and employing Guard and Reserve forces. The Total Force Concept brought a new level of support for the National Guard and Reserves. General Creighton Abrams, United States Army Chief of Staff, reorganized the "Total Army" so that the Regular Army could not conduct an extended campaign without mobilizing the Guard and Reserves, thus gaining the involvement and, hopefully, the support of small-town America.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/army/arng-history.htm

[sarge43]

15. One of his sons-in-law, Lucy's ex, was AF Reserve and he did

a tour, but that was certainly the exception, not the rule.

[TahitiNut]

18. Here's a pretty comprehensive site regarding reserve/guard deployments to Viet Nam ...

http://www.mnroa.org/0703/Research/vietnam_research_1.htm

[sarge43]

22. Thanks, TahitNut.

Handy one to bookmark.

[Harper_is_Bush]

8. Email them.

[BlooInBloo]

9. I didn't realize the Peace Corps counted as military service.

[sarge43]

11. ????

It gave a deferment while in the PC and a servicemember wouldn't be assigned to a country where s/he worked as a PC member, but counted as military service, never heard that.

[BlooInBloo]

13. Don't look at me. The OP listed it.

[sarge43]

16. Well, that's a new one.

:shrug:

[Rosemary2205]

14. I only included that because of my question re: Dodd

No - I didn't intend it to count as "military service". I just threw it in there as info to help determine if he was even eligible for draft because I wondered if joining the peace corps was partly a way to defer going to Vietnam.

[BlooInBloo]

17. It's possible for a person to look at that and conclude that you're trying to pad Dodd's resume...

... because you're a Dodd supporter.

I don't know if that's true or not, but if someone made that argument, I'd be hard-pressed to convincingly argue against them.


EDIT: Subject typo.

[Rosemary2205]

19. LOL - not with a 10 foot poll.

Dodd and Biden are really the only 2 I've completely ruled out - for reasons I can't really seem to explain. Though if they got the nod I would hold my nose and vote for them. Hillary I am not real crazy about but I could vote for her without a nose hold. The others, I'm still weighing strengths and weaknesses.

And Bloo - I'm just really brokenhearted that you can't get my back. :P :silly:

[BlooInBloo]

20. Now that you've given me something to work with i can! :)

[sarge43]

21. Well, Peace Corps wasn't a guaranteed vacation.

Depending upon where you were sent, it could be unpleasant and sometimes dangerous. There were far more safer ways to avoid the draft. He more than fulfilled his military obligation in the Reserves

[BlooInBloo]

23. Who said, suggested, or implied that it was?

[sarge43]

26. I didn't say there was.

I'm not going to engage in a tiresome GD flamer, so let's stop right now.

[BlooInBloo]

27. Well then thank you for confirming that the PC is no guaranteed vacation....

... Please let us know if there are any other well-known facts that nobody suggested to the contrary on, which you would also like to mention.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

24. I'm not seeing that any of this is a handicap vs. the Repub candidates, except for McCain, who's NOT

getting the nomination anyway.

Not like Kerry's military background compared to Bush helped us much -- anyone want to bet that Wes Clark would be subject to some kind of "Swiftboating" if he somehow became the nominee?

[TahitiNut]

25. Here's the GOP ...

Sam Brownback Military Service • None. Came of age as draft was ending.

James S. Gilmore Military Service • U.S. Army, including service as an intelligence specialist in West Germany, 1971-1974

Rudolph W. Giuliani Military Service • None. Received student and occupational deferments. Registered for draft but number was never called.

Duncan Hunter Military Service • Served in Army as paratrooper and Ranger in Vietnam (1969-71).

John McCain Military Service • United States Navy 1958-1981 with service in Vietnam; • Prisoner of war, Vietnam, 1967-1973; • Awards: Silver Star, Legion of Merit, Purple Heart and Distinguished Flying Cross

Ron Paul Military Service • Flight Surgeon, United States Air National Guard, 1965-1968; • Flight Surgeon, United States Air Force, 1963-1965

Mitt Romney Military Service • None, received a deferment as a Mormon missionary in France. Registered for the draft upon his return to the states but was never selected.

http://www.republican-candidates.org/comparisons/compare-republican-presidential-candidates-military.php

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

28. Honestly I don't think it's much of an issue one way or another.