Why I side with the FLIGHT ATTENDANT

[Nikki Stone1]

There have been a couple of threads this weekend about a mother and toddler who were removed from a plane because the child kept repeating "Bye bye plane" and the mother more or less refused to quiet him down. The latest of these threads is here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1337888&mesg_id=1337888

These threads have turned into bashing flame fests that basically run as follows:

A. The flight attendant was a bitch because all toddlers babble. She was lucky this baby wasn't screaming. And besides, babbling is cute, even if it's loud.

B. Children need to learn to behave in certain public places, like airplanes, and parents need to have some way of keeping the child under control.

A. You don't have children, do you! Or else you would KNOW that toddlers can't be quieted down anywhere at any time.

B. You people with kids think your kids are entitled to do whatever they want whereever. And why does it matter whether I have children or not?

A. I can tell you don't have kids because you have no patience with everything my child wants to do in a public place. You don't know anything, so I don't have to take your opinion seriously.

B. You breeders will let your kids do whatever the fuck they want without regard to other people's comfort. There are some places kids shouldn't be allowed.

A. You were a kid once. We were all kids once. And I'll bet you were a horribly behaved child.

B. I was a perfect child and my parents could take me anywhere.

A. Yeah, right. If you have no patience with children, then you shouldn't fly in a plane.

B. There are times when kids need to behave or not be allowed places. If your kid can't behave, don't take him on a plane.

A. You're a fascist and you hate children.

B. I don't hate kids. I just don't like your spawn babbling incessantly, screaming, throwing tantrums for five hours on a fucking plane. That doesn't mean I want to put them in the fucking microwave and watch them explode!

C. I do. (Troll gets tombstoned.)



In all the arguing about child-rearing, we have forgotten the poor flight attendant. Since 9/11, this poor person:

1. Has lost many union protections, including pensions, raises and proper scheduling. S/he is now more overworked and underpaid.

2. Is living with the fear that a bunch of terrorists with boxcutters will hijack the plane and kill everyone on board. (And yes, whether it was MIHOP, LIHOP or the Saudi bunny hop, every new stomach gurgle on the part of Chertoff brings that fear home again.)

3. Is working on planes packed to capacity with fewer and fewer services for customers. These "cost-cutting measures" on the part of airlines, combined with the tedious, time consuming and often invasive security procedures, make for more disguntled passengers with less patience, more complaints, and an increased possibility for hostility, both verbal and physical.

So, if the flight attendant asks you to quiet your kid down during the security lecture, be nice and do your best, don't just tell her that toddlers babble and do nothing. It is my belief from reading the story that it was the mother's uncooperative attitude more than anything else that got the flight attendant ticked off and possibly worried. Perhaps, the flight attendant was NOT a bitch, but was actually seeing a long flight with a kid who couldn't be quieted and a plane full of potentially hostile customers who might reach the end of their collective rope after a few hours. I think if the mother had been apologetic and tried her best, the flight attendant would not have reacted the way she did. She saw the mother as uncooperative and a possible problem for the flight.

Now flame away, but try to come up with something new. :)

[Midlodemocrat]

1. Bullshit. (nt)

[Balderdash]

2. Ummm, clever...

:eyes:

[Midlodemocrat]

3. Yup. About as clever as your post.

:eyes:

[Richard Steele]

57. No need for "clever" when TRUE will suffice. Bullshit is bullshit.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

149. A. Fucking. Men.

[Tektonik]

127. agreed

the OP's point is bullshit

[sleipnir]

4. Spot on.

I do enjoy your quick rundown of the threads and they're damn accurate.

Your assessment is the most logical I've heard to date. That's not to say, half the people here will troll you down because they disagree with your opinion (however right it may be.)

[Midlodemocrat]

7. So the fact that the flight was delayed 11 hours means nothing?

I've been in the airport with some adults who freak at their flight being delayed 1/2 hour.

This mom is not to blame and the whole post 9/11 thing is horseshit. There were asshole flight attendants prior to that and there are certainly asshole flight attendants now.

That baby, according to all reports of the people surrounding that mom, did nothing to warrant having the plane turned around. The flight attendant was an ass.

[cynatnite]

5. Glad I missed it n/t

[TheFriendlyAnarchist]

123. Wish I did. n/t

[wtmusic]

6. Anyone who would reach the end of their rope

because they had to put up with a babbling toddler for a few hours has other issues.

Me, I'd have a few drinks and babble along.

[pnwmom]

9. I think this baby was the straw that broke the camel's back.

Probably the flight attendant was having a bad day, and she took it out on this mother and baby.

I bet anything that this story just goes away, with the airline settling it quickly and quietly. They were clearly at fault.

[wtmusic]

11. And we've all been there, but...

having a flight attendant in the family has taught me you're really not allowed "bad days" like that. Patience is a big part of the job.

[pnwmom]

12. Absolutely.

And the exact same situation holds for the job of parent, or teacher.

Patience is a part of all those jobs.

[flygal]

89. I'm a former flight attendant

and that's about the truth of it. There were f/a's who just couldn't bend even a little and it made for a very unpleasant flight for crew and passengers. It's intimidating to follow such important FAA guidelines as - stow handbags in seat pocket, but don't worry about that 65 oz. soda or 7 lb hard cover book or toddler on lap.

I learned where safety seemed a bigger issue and learned to bend with it. I'm siding with the mother - people shouldn't have to submit all their freedoms at the cabin door. There are sensible ways to deal with things. I swear that's why I was hired - during the interview they put us in situations like that and the people who didn't seem flexible didn't make it. I think some f/a's hardened over the years - 9/11 is no excuse for chucking common sense and flexability out the door.

[wtmusic]

114. Well said, flygal

I hope you got your pension :scared:

[Nikki Stone1]

125. A question, flygal

Clearly the pilot turned the plane around to deposit the mother and toddler back at the airport. Does the pilot follow orders from the flight attendant to turn the plane around if s/he asks? I don't know the chain of command is followed or how the situation is evaluated before the plane is turned around. Thank you.

[pnwmom]

154. That sounds exactly right. In such an important, stressful

customer service position, the need to make intelligent judgments and to be flexible and patient is paramount.

Good for you for being able to handle the job.

[truedelphi]

159. Thanks flygal

The flexibility thing is important. Just a few weeks ago we were all horrified when the diabetic man was assumed drunk and thrown off the Amtrak train in the middle of a wilderness. (Luckily he was found alive and rescued some ten hours later.)

I suffer from asthma. Pre 9/11 I had two asthma attacks. Both were asymptomatic (meaning I didn't have the wheezing that is usually the hallmark of such a thing)

One group of flight attendants immediately helped me. They understood that when you cannot get air into your windpipe, you are as freaked out as a drowning person. They allowed me to walk around the plane until the sky got bumpy - then they secured a seat for me in an area where the ventilation was better than my original seat. They were kind and courteous and I couldn't have been better off if the plane had been staffed with respiratory therapists!

The next time around - The second group arm wrestled me back to my original seat. They refused to understand that I couldn't breathe. They alerted each other that this crazy woman needed to be watched. Luckily this happened only about 45 minutes before the plane landed - if I'd had hours to go, I have no idea what would have happened.

In both cases, I did not scream or swear. I do imagine that in both cases I ws a bit shrill - your voice cannot operate normally if you can't breath right. All I wanted was to be able to either stand upright, or be placed in an area where the ventilation waas better.

Plus all this was pre 9/11 - if this had happened after that event, maybe I'd have been killed? (Rolling Stone had an entire article shortly after this about a man whose behavior was obnoxious inflight - he was thrown to the ground in the aisle near his seat and pummelled by attendants and passengers. Then he either suffocated or was killed in some other manner. Boy I felt for him and his family.)

Sad to say, I hold the airlines responsible. I flew a great deal as a child and young person - it is only been in the days since they re-cycle their S^%tty air that I have had problems with breathing inflight.

[pnwmom]

8. The only request that the mother refused was to drug her child.

And that was an illegal request. No flight attendant can require a parent to drug a healthy child in order to be allowed on a flight.

The other passengers didn't view the mother or child as doing anything disruptive. In fact, they spoke up on behalf of the mother. According to the reports I've seen, the flight attendant was the only one on the plane who was annoyed by the baby.

I agree that flight attendants these days are under a great deal of pressure. I also think this one abused her authority. In a moment of weakness, she took out her pent-up frustrations on a baby and her mother.

[anitar1]

61. how about duct tape ? n/t

[tblue37]

91. Yes, and from what I have read, it was a one-hour flight--not a flight of

"many hours"--and it was finally taking off after an 11-hour delay.

[wryter2000]

134. 11 hour delay?? I hadn't heard that part of it.

Why in blue blazes are we talking about a child? The story is the delay.

[dansolo]

139. I thought it was an 11 hour layover

I don't believe the flight itself was delayed, only that the mother and child had an 11 hour layover before getting on this plane.

[pnwmom]

163. It was weather delays, an exhausting 11 hours.

http://www.insideedition.com/ourstories/inside_stories/story.aspx?storyid=850

SNIP

Kate says the flight attendant told her to give him baby Benadryl -allergy medication that would quiet him down and even put him to sleep, but Kate refused to do it.

"She put her hand on her hip and said: 'This is my plane and I don't want to hear it,'" Kate said.

The young mother says the next thing she knew, the plane was taxiing back to the gate and a security guard escorted them off the flight. Kate said she was informed the flight attendant had told the captain that Karen threatened her.

INSIDE EDITION spoke with Stacy Watts and Sandy Taylor, passengers on the same flight who said they didn't think Garren was threatening the flight attendant. In fact, Watts was so upset she also got off the plane to show solidarity with Kate and the baby.

SNIP

[asthmaticeog]

96. Wow, how quickly it went from "request" to "requirement."

:freak:

[pnwmom]

155. It wasn't a request, since they kicked the mother off for not complying.

[DefenseLawyer]

10. Maybe the mother was uncooperative

because the air waitress was on a completely unwarranted power-trip. But thanks for keeping this meaningless debate fodder alive for another day anyway.

[pnwmom]

14. Power trip is right. That's exactly what it was.

But I think this issue goes deeper, as it touches on a culture that is getting more and more anti-child.

[DefenseLawyer]

20. Power corrupts

Absolute power corrupts absolutely. I am not sure is says as much about an anti-child culture as it does about giving our drinker server the power to throw us off a plane. Whether it is a flight attendant or an assistant principal or a mall cop; these are not jobs for the petty.

[Bluebear]

23. "giving our drinker server the power..." So right away we know you do NOT respect f/a's

I'm surprised you didn't come up with that old standby "glorified waitress".

[DefenseLawyer]

24. Respect is earned

and episodes like this don't really help your position, do they?

[Bluebear]

27. I would NEVER call your profession a bunch of shysters & crooks.

So if you want to go profession against profession, go ahead. I will wager that flight attendants rank about lawyers in favorability polls.

Respect is about respecting ANY hard-working man or woman and not denigrating what they do.

[DefenseLawyer]

39. You miss the point

and that is partly my fault because I was being a smartass. The point was not that flight attendants don't work hard, only that as a general rule, when you put someone in a position of authority, if they have a certain personality type, they will likely abuse their authority at some point. And the same would be true if we gave my fellow shysters and crooks in the bar the power to kick fellow passengers off planes.

[LanternWaste]

170. Others say respect is the default and it is disrespect that must be earned...

Others say respect is the default and it is disrespect that must be earned...

I guess either choice is valid-- though it may advertise more about ourselves than we'd otherwise think...

[Ms. Toad]

95. He did -

check #10. I had the same reaction you did.

[Bluebear]

138. Thank you. nt

[U4ikLefty]

191. nevr mind, someone already pointed it out n/t

[Nikki Stone1]

35. Just trying to defend someone whose job has more responsibility than average

And probably more than yours.

[DefenseLawyer]

151. Sorry but I don't buy it

"It's a hard job" isn't a free pass to be an idiot. That is not different than people who apologize for the cops that beat Rodney King or sodomized Abner Louima by saying "Cops put their lives on the line every day". Yes they do, but that doesn't excuse them when they fuck up. What you are basically saying is no matter what a flight attendant does, "9/11 changed everything" so it is okay. I disagree.

[Name removed]

137. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Toasterlad]

13. Boo Hoo. You're Breakin' My Heart.

I delivered my well-crafted and carefully considered opinion in one of the two threads I saw on this, so let me respond directly to your point:

If the job is too much for the flight attendant in that she would show such poor judgment in lying to the pilot about needing to have the plane taken back to the gate (remember, the other passengers SUPPORT the woman with the child - there was no threat), thereby causing MAJOR hassles for the aiport, God knows how many other flights that were attempting to take off, and any of the passengers that needed to make connecting flights, then she should be politely instructed to find less stressful employment. Immediately.

[pnwmom]

15. Good idea. Or at least a nice, long medical leave

till she gets her act together.

[tblue37]

92. And don't forget those major hassles for the airline the f/a works for,

which will probably have to pay some serious money to make this go away.

Probably I should have said "used to work for," because I seriously doubt the f/a will keep that job for long.

[dysfunctional press]

16. your number two is just that- a load of number 2.

first off- any flight attendant who lives in fear of another 9/11 hijacking should get a different fucking job.

secondly- it's doubtful that there will EVER be another hijacking over american airspace- not just because of security measures, but because the PASSENGERS will NEVER allow it to happen again.

[pnwmom]

77. And number three.

No flight attendant who is unable to cope with a babbling baby would ever be able to cope with an actual emergency.

[BlooInBloo]

17. Wow - I'm not known as a big jackass-kids supporter, but that's hardcore.

[smoogatz]

18. The "flight attendant" should be fired.

I'm sick of having to deal with bitchy, unhelpful, sullen and surly airline employees every time I fly. Yes, I know their jobs suck, but there's no reason they have to take it out on me. If a "flight attendant" had suggested that I drug my child in order to "keep him quiet," I would most likely have told her to fuck off. I hate flying on domestic airlines now: deregulation has turned them all to absolute shit. Try flying Lufthansa or Singapore Airlines or Virgin and you'll know what I'm talking about. All of the U.S. airlines are horrible--the business plan seems to be to make flying a punitive experience that everyone will dread and despise. Thank God for the free market, is all I can say.

[Bluebear]

22. So you are happy to outsource airline workers too, eh?

All of the U.S. airlines are horrible

I hate flying on domestic airlines now

Try flying Lufthansa or Singapore Airlines or Virgin

===

All because of one flight attendant's actions? It's a shame that the hardworking airline employees of America have treated you so poorly. Just one note.... you run into "bitchy, unhelpful, sullen and surly airline employees" everytime YOU fly. Did you consider maybe it's your disposition that's ruining your day?

[Swamp Rat]

26. .

I like planes

:)

[Bluebear]

29. I like planes too~!

;)

[Swamp Rat]

33. ok

I'm not in this thread to debate.

I just love those airlines because of so many positive experiences.

That is all.

:)

[smoogatz]

34. If they suck at their jobs, they should get different jobs.

I'm sick of dealing with sky-waiter 'tude every time I fly. Hire some people who aren't assholes, or lose my business forever. I'm talking to you, Northworst.

[Nikki Stone1]

38. How about the 'tudes of the passengers?

Customer service sucks in general, especially when you have customers with an extraordinary sense of entitlement and very little sense of responsibility. If you work retail, you have to put up with these kinds of customers. If you are in a plane, where such customers can cause trouble in an enclosed area with no way out, and affect everyone's safety and comfort, then you don't have to.

[smoogatz]

44. If that's how you view the customers, it's time to find a line of work

that doesn't put you in contact with the public. Air passengers ARE entitled--to be treated like, you know, human beings, not to mention paying customers who deserve a modicum of politeness and respect. If that's the attitude of airline employees in the U.S. these days, it's no wonder domestic flying is such an unpleasant experience.

And you know, I did work retail for most of my college/grad-school years, and for the most part I enjoyed it a great deal. If you don't like working with people, you probably shouldn't work in the public end of the airline industry.

[BlueCollar]

86. Air passengers ARE entitled

--to be treated like, you know, human beings, not to mention paying customers who deserve a modicum of politeness and respect.

Just a thought...So are Airline Employees

[smoogatz]

102. Of course.

And as I said, their jobs suck--they're the contact point between the public and a deeply fucked-up industry. But that doesn't mean they should take their frustrations with their employers--which are no doubt manifold--out on the customers.

[Common Sense Party]

52. As a very FREQUENT flier, I have to say that 90% of customers

have VERY pleasant "'tudes" when we fly. We're generally docile, patient and understanding.

We just want to get from Point A to Point B without too much hassle. We understand that the airlines can't control the weather or the behavior of every passenger. We understand that flight attendants are human. We mostly just don't want to be bothered, and we will be polite and helpful, because we know we're all on the same plane together for a couple of hours.

The 10% (I doubt it's even that high, but giving the benefit of the doubt) of the flying public that are a-holes...not much can ever be done about them. They've always been a-holes, and they always will be a-holes. Usually most of us try to ignore them in the hopes that they will calm down. If they go over the line, most of us from the decent group will tell them so.

This woman and her child are not in the 10% a-hole minority. An experienced flight attendant should be able to see the difference.

[pnwmom]

66. By all accounts, the only one with an attitude was the flight attendant.

The other passengers thought her reaction was unjustified. Why do you keep defending her behavior? Sure, she has a tough job, and she was probably under stress for some other reason. But that doesn't justify abusing her power, any more than a stressed out parent is justified in abusing HER power.

If you can't exercise patience when necessary, you don't belong in customer service and you shouldn't be a parent either.

[Bluebear]

50. "sky-waiter" - - and what your YOUR profession, so we can minimize it too?

I see you like to put "flight attendant" in quotation marks, so what do YOU do?

[smoogatz]

121. It's not relevant to the thread, and I won't be bullied

into revealing personal information--sorry. Nobody forced you to step forward and identify yourself as a flight attendant, Bluebear. But you're right--"sky-waiter" is not an appropriate sobriquet, since most domestic airlines no longer serve food.

[smoogatz]

32. All because of one "flight attendant's" actions?

Hardly. I take it you don't fly commercial--or if you do, you must only fly domestic. You've almost certainly never had the experience of flying with a child on a domestic airline (woe unto those who dare--good luck even getting seats together). The U.S. airlines are now among the worst on the planet--no meal service, no leg room, packed flights, uncaring and unhelpful employees, dirty planes, rancid bathrooms, recycled and contaminated air for God's sake, long delays, lost baggage, on and on. And no, it's not my disposition (but thanks for suggesting that it might be)--most domestic airlines score consistently in the "mediocre" to "crappy" range in consumer surveys. I guess that's because the passengers all just have bad attitudes, right? The customer is always wrong, is that it?

On edit: in this case, I'd be in favor of outsourcing if it meant I could deal with helpful, friendly and competent people when I fly. But really the problem with the domestic airlines is that deregulation has placed them in such a competitive environment that they're all imploding--worse and worse service in order to cut costs so they can compete on price--as if we all wouldn't pay an extra fifty bucks or so if it meant flying wouldn't suck.

[LanternWaste]

171. Our frequent flying experiences are dramatically different...

Our frequent flying experiences are dramatically different. For the most part, it's a pleasant experience for me as long as I don't fall into the trap of expecting a stay at the Ritz-Carlton whenever I get on a flight. And the few bad experiences I've had have been the direct result of other passengers, not the staff...

[smoogatz]

203. It's possible you're lucky enough not to have flown on Northwest and US Airways

with much frequency--they're consistently in the bottom tier in customer satisfaction these days. Both truly awful airlines, but Northwest is the only choice we have flying out of MSP, unless we want to make multiple connections and double our travel time to wherever we're going. US Airways is to be avoided at all costs: I only mention it because I had to fly into Philly not long ago for a conference, and didn't know any better. Horrendous service (at the terminal, mostly--the flight crew were fine), never again. You also may not have the pleasure of flying coach with much frequency: I almost always end up stuck in coach--not because I don't have the miles, but because Northworst never lets you use them. Northwest used to be okay, but they've declined precipitously in recent years after several rounds of salary cuts that affected almost all of their customer-oriented staff. They used to be pleasant and helpful Minnesotans who actually went out of their way to help you. Now they're surly and disgruntled. Fine, I don't blame them, but I wish they woudln't take it out on me. And I wish their management would get its head out of its collective ass and listen to its customers, who would flee in droves if they had any other reasonable choice. If I could fly Lufthansa direct from Minneapolis to L.A., I'd do it in a heartbeat, even at twice the price.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

36. how often do you fly?

the only airlines in this great nation that treat me like I am anything but a fungus are Southwest and Frontier.

I was on the receiving end of a full flight temper tantrum from a US Airways "customer service agent" when I informed her the check-in kiosk she had directed me to was displaying an error message and told me to see an agent. Which entailed her having to do something other than sit on her ass and point at people

A Delta Airlines check-in agent dropped my passport and suggested I board the international flight without it rather than have her fish it out from under the desk, she said it would hold up the line. Well seeing as I won't be allowed to re-enter the united states without it maybe it is worthy of more concern than suggesting I contact the lost and found when I return.

Alaska Airlines ground crew destroyed my gf's brand new luggage, the muddy footprint that matches the location of the bent frame doesn't leave me grasping for an explaination.

If Southwest and Frontier are capable of staffing their companies without hiring hostile lunatics, what is everyone elses excuse?

[Bluebear]

51. How often do I fly?

A lot!

So, if those two airlines are praiseworthy, it puts to rest the poster who said "all of the U.S. airlines are horrible" :)

[smoogatz]

103. Two airlines out of the entire domestic airline industry don't suck!

Woo hoo! We're number one!

[pnwmom]

67. I can't believe she told you to leave your passport behind!

Except I can . . . what an idiot.

[Ms. Toad]

99. Granted, you can't go without your passport,

so the suggestion you travel without it was inappropriate,

. . . but I've watched that retrieval process and the when I watched it, it required a couple of levels of supervisors and finding someone with a magic key. One poor soul lost a driver's license down there the last time I flew, and was still standing there after I got the the front of the long line and was headed to security because they hadn't been able to find the right combination of people with authority and keys.

[BlueCollar]

85. As an airline employee

"...bitchy, unhelpful, sullen and surly airline employees..." might describe some of us.

However, I'm curious as to what your occupation is and how often I have to deal with people in your industry/trade/craft.

Perhaps you'd like to share so that I can paint with a broad brush?

You say...

"I hate flying on domestic airlines now: deregulation has turned them all to absolute shit."

Then you say...

"Thank God for the free market, is all I can say..."

So which one is it?

[smoogatz]

109. The free market line was sarcasm.

Deregulation has ruined the airline industry in this country. And my job doesn't involve dealing with the public, though in the past I've been a bartender, a gigging musician, and worked in customer service and sales in the musical equipment industry, both retail and wholesale. I think this "blame the customer because they think our service sucks" attitude of the airline employees posting here astonishing, frankly. I'll bet you'd be hard-pressed to find 10% of DUers who think airline service is what it ought to be. I'm old enough to remember what it used to be like, before deregulation--plus I fly on European and Asian airlines from time to time, so I have something contemporaneous to compare it to. Sorry, but measured by your foreign competitors, almost all U.S. airlines are sub-par to terrible.

[struggle4progress]

19. A toddler saying "bye bye plane" is a problem? Uh ...

Might could be somebody ain't takin they's med -- and I doesn't mean the toddler

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

21. I have been in a similar situation and the FA was a dick

Flying between DEN and SNA I sat next to a woman and her young son, the kid was being as well behaved as one might expect an excited toddler to be. He was going to Disneyland with his mom who said she was an army nurse just home from Germany and had missed his birthday that year. The kid spent most of the flight silently flipping through the pictures in a book about Disneyland. But for whatever reason one of the flight attendants was basically harassing the woman the entire flight and this guy must have asked me half a dozen times if the child was disturbing me and if I wanted to be moved, which he absolutely was not.

What did the woman do to upset the guy so much?

She took her son to the bathroom while they were serving drinks, but after the cart had passed our row. This visit to the bathroom in no way obstructed the flight attendants serving the drinks. The clown kept badgering the woman asking her if she understood the consequences of "obstructing the flight crew" eventually another passenger who showed his ID and identified himself as a pilot for the airline and told the guy to drop it or he would make a report to some woman he named directly.

Frankly, all I saw was a bad stereotype with an attitude problem who thought he was "kicking breeder ass" by tormenting this woman and her kid.

And for all people complain about flying with kids, most of the bad behavior I see on planes is by adults who think their two flights a year means they are entitled to the presidential treatment.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

46. I have seen the same surly behavior from FA's.

If the job is too stressful, take a break or get out. Turning around a plane because you are stressed in your profession as a FA is unconscionable. Have to agree with you here policypunk.

[pnwmom]

76. Yikes! Since when is it "illegal" to need to go to the bathroom

while drinks are being served?

What a creep.

[Clark2008]

124. Wow! I would have filed a complaint after that, not that it probably

would have done any good.

I flew with my 3-year-old son to New York and again to LONDON with him when he was 4 years old. All the passengers and flight attendants thought he was adorable! They were all talking to him about whether this was his first flight (the trip to NYC the first time was his first) and how exciting this must be for him, etc. On the way back from NYC, he slept in my arms the entire way because he was getting sick with a cold. The woman next to me thought he was so cute.

On the flight to London on Virgin, he slept almost the entire way there and back. So did I. Neither one of us bothered a soul.

Guess my experiences was never this horrid!

[RB TexLa]

25. Just seemed to be the attitude of "You have to sacrifice for my children" on those threads

[Katherine Brengle]

83. It's not "sacrifice" to learn to deal with the fact we share the world with children lol.

[Richard Steele]

28. The flight attendant suggested she DRUG the child. Fuck that bullshit. I hope she's fired. nm

[mzmolly]

30. I dont care what conditions this flight attendent works under. She was over the top.

Toddlers do babble and some don't have the skills to quiet down. I would expect people who fly planes and those who work on them are aware that children might be involved? I would not go to McDonalds and expect "peace and quiet." This is absurd.

If this child babbled for two straight hours "bye bye plane" then he's got a medical condition. I'm certain any normal child would have been distracted by something else before long. Why not bring the kid a juice or something to distract him?

Sorry, I side with babies being allowed to act like babies.

[pansypoo53219]

31. thanks!

i am not alone in thinking some parenting needs to be encouraged again.
thank god i don't fly.
and yes. i was a very quiet child.

[PassingFair]

37. A. Flight Attendant should be sacked.

B. Child should have free flights for life.
C. You should never leave your serene apartment
for fear of audio upset.

[Nikki Stone1]

42. A. Flight attendant has enough real security issues to worry about without minding your kid

B. Parents should be mindful that there are other people to be considered in a plane.

C. Apartments are serene? What complex do you live in?

[pnwmom]

68. That flight attendant had enough REAL security issues that she should

have ignored the 19 month old and gone about her serious business.

None of the other passengers on the plane were bothered, and many of them were no doubt talking, too. Horrors! Did she order them to all take Benadryl, too?

[yardwork]

40. You're speculating.

The facts are that a number of other passengers have said that the child was not disturbing anyone but the flight attendant. Also, these witnesses say that the flight attendant asked the mother to DRUG her child.

Those are the known facts. Most of your comments are based on speculation that contradicts the facts.

[Nikki Stone1]

43. The flight attendant asked several times for the mother to quiet the child. Then she mentioned

Baby-Benadryl. (Not chloroform, BTW.) Probably an off-the-cuff remark, reflecting her frustration at the uncooperative mother.

[Common Sense Party]

53. Adult passengers talk all the time. Some of them loudly.

And they talk right through the all-important Safety Demonstration.

Do the flight attendants ask THEM "several times" to be quiet?

I wonder why not?

[azurnoir]

55. Where does it say the mother was being uncooperative?

In fact the mother never got that chance, unless of course you consider refusing to drug a child "non-cooperation" odd thing is that in some states such an act sedating a normal healthy child for convenience is child abuse.
The fact is that in the post 9/11 world FA have been given a great deal of authority and some are abusing it.
The is an article on the same story from Salon in this version in order to get Mom and kid kicked off the plane the FA claimed the Mom threatened her, something I have not read else where or read of any witnesses saying. You have to scroll down a bit.

http://www.salon.com/mwt/broadsheet/

[azurnoir]

58. The FA asked the mother "several times" ?

Link please? Where did you get that? in the version of the story yesterday from Yahoo, the FA told the mother she needed to "shut her baby up", she did not ask she commanded and quite rudely.
from the story-

"At the end of her speech, she leaned over the gentleman beside me and said, 'It's not funny anymore. You need to shut your baby up,'" Penland told WSB-TV in Atlanta.

When Penland asked the woman if she was joking, she said the stewardess replied, "You know, it's called baby Benadryl," referring to an allergy medication that can also be used as a sleep aid.

"And I said, 'Well, I'm not going to drug my child so you have a pleasant flight,'" Penland told the TV station.

Penland said other passengers began speaking up on her behalf, and the flight attendant announced they were turning around and that Penland and Garren were going to be taken off the plane."
Sounds to me like the FA knew she over stepped and made a power play to "shut up" the rest of the passengers. Or see what I can do to you.

[Warren DeMontague]

60. Who needs the actual news stories, when you can just make shit up as you go? nt

[pnwmom]

69. "Several times"??? Link please.

That's not what I read. The FA told the mother to shut her baby up. The mother asked if she was kidding, and the FA then told her to use benadryl. That's when the mother refused.

[Mythsaje]

41. Even my wife, who doesn't really like kids

wouldn't buy into THIS argument.

And, yeah, take my word as someone who works another field where patience is a must. If you can't treat everyone with a modicum of respect, up to and including a small child who's over-excited, you need to get another fucking job. Like sucking sewage through a hose without the aid of a pump.

There's always someone willing to side with an anti-social twit with a forty centimeter pole up his or her ass. Even here.

Sad, really.

[Nikki Stone1]

47. Do you work in a field where you are responsible for people's lives, and have to worry about being

the target of a terrorist attack, for real, because it actually happened?

Really, think about the stress these folks are under. Look at the changes in the airline industry in my OP. Then tell me how your job is the same.

[Mythsaje]

54. If you work in the service industry

Respect is the bottom line. Or it damn well should be. I'm certainly not going to get into another thousand post flame-fest about people's intolerance toward children and parents. It sounds to me as if the only person who had a problem with this kid or parent was the PA herself, and her attitude and actions were completely out of line. There is NOTHING that gives her the right to suggest drugging the child and it is that itself that speaks precisely to what she did wrong. It showed a supreme lack of respect for them as people and that is something we cannot and should not tolerate.

[pnwmom]

70. She doesn't belong in that job if she can't manage the stress of

a toddler repeatedly saying "Bye bye plane."

If that's beyond her, then she should find another occupation.

Because if she can't stand the babbling of a 19 month old, I'd hate to think how she might react if something bad actually does happen on one of her flights.

[gollygee]

108. If her breaking point is a 19-month-old saying "bye-bye plane

she's in the wrong line of work. Seriously.

[smoogatz]

204. She thought the kid was a terrorist?

What, was she worried he'd smuggled explosives aboard in his pampers? Or was she just a nasty little control freak lording it over a forty-seat puddle-jumper on some crappy commuter airline? Hmmm, let me think about that one...

[katsy]

45. It's a symptom of:

a >>> A totally stressed out society that works too damned much and has little patience for interruption, let alone connection with others.

b >>> Environmental toxins have altered our psychological wellness. We're nutz, hateful and intolerant.


Look, the airline sold the mother tickets for their service. Unless they specify that unruly children will be banned from the flight, that attendent was out of line to speak to the mother in that manner, let alone kick them off the plane. I wouldn't object to flights being designated "child-free" and the airlines should think about having child-free flights if it would benefit them. But don't book flights for kids and then allow wacko attendents suggest the children be drugged. Knowing that children would be flying, did the airline offer anything to the mom? A toy model of the plane? Coloring book? I doubt it. People - children - no one has any value to these corporate bastards outside of profiting from them. Maybe they could learn a thing or two from their local diner about good service. When a restaurant (at least in my area) welcomes families, they have an activity page ready for the children.

Healthy adults have the ability to control their behavior, 18 month old children do not. They are learning. It's a process.

[autorank]

48. K*R I support the flight attendant too! And

You're so right about flight attendants. They have huge pressure and they've been screwed by
"management" over and over again. They deserve our respect.

I used to fly quite a bit. I was NOT one of those folks who complained about babies on planes. That
was fine and the moms worked it out. They have every right to fly and it is hard on their ears often.

As for voluntary speech, wandering around, bothering others in a public place - plane, restaurant,
etc., parents need to remember that it's not all about them and that many don't appreciate children
either making a ruckus or wandering around. I see it from time to time at restaurants for example.
Kids wander around while parents sit there and talk. Sorry, that's rude. Or parents let their young
kids make a mess on the flood with food etc. Bad boundaries, public places are not the home, where
parents are free to let their children wander, toss food on the floor etc. Parents who let their kids
do this do a disservice to the child by not teaching them respectful behavior and they are simply
exhibiting rude behavior to others present.

[pnwmom]

72. No one was wandering around or being disruptive.

A seated baby was talking. None of the other passengers were disturbed, and they spoke up in defense of the mother when they realized she was being kicked off the plane.

I wish people would find out the facts before they make judgments on this situation. The flight attendant was clearly in the wrong.

[ronnie624]

129. Some of the posters on this thread and the others

on this topic, have no choice but to make things up in order to defend their indefensible positions. The facts are clearly established in a number of news items about this incident, but numerous posters engage in speculation and attempted mind-reading in order to justify their obvious hostility toward small children.

I deal with hundreds of people daily, and at times it can be rather stressful, but I never tire of watching and listening to small children. Not only do I find their antics humorous, but their lack of socially imposed masks, allows an interesting and unobstructed view of human behavior in general.

[yardwork]

150. That's exactly what I'm seeing here too.

You got it exactly right.

[pnwmom]

153. I agree with you. Small children are fun, no matter who they belong to.

It's too bad not everyone can enjoy them.

[marions ghost]

106. yes I know....

you see bad behavior a lot in restaurants. Not long ago I watched a family with 3 young kids completely tear up the table next to us...throwing food, running around the table, coming to our table several times to climb over the booths and play peekaboo with us, though we gave no signs of being interested in playing with them. They were in constant motion, never required to sit in their seats, and were old enough to be expected to do that at least part of the time. The parents were like zombies, completely passive.

The group left the table and floor a complete and total wasteland...the restaurant people were disgusted and making comments to each other about what pigs they were. I do have sympathy for the parents who are so clueless, but it's like sympathy for the brain-dead. I'm kind of amazed, more than anything, by the feral way some people live. OK, obnoxious behavior is not the worst thing in the world, but I worry about where these kids are heading. Maybe they are so bad all the time the parents have just given up. It's almost like some kids have been raised with absolutely no limits. What kind of adults will they be?

Now I'm SURE the parents here at DU do not let their kids do this extreme bad behavior in public. But they should acknowledge at least that it is a growing problem for others. Even though I am very good with kids, I associate family friendly restaurants with negative experiences now. Whether it has to be this way, whether those who it bothers must get out of the way and shut up...dunno. But it IS a growing problem.

These days I just tell the kids to buzz off myself if they really get next to me in a public place. Just quick and to the point, like brushing off gnats--I just say, "You! Stop that." (and they do) I certainly don't expect parents to do this anymore. So I feel I have a right to at least fend them off.
It's sad that people have so little respect for others anymore.

[pnwmom]

188. I don't see this as a growing problem. Not where I live. n/t

[Bryn]

49. According to the witnesses

Passengers weren't bothered so this wasn't such a big deal enough to turn around a huge plane. Too many against one person isn't going to convince me that toddler was a problem.

[assclown_bush]

78. Passengers weren't bothered???

Just the sight of a baby and I am bothered. If I had been seated anywhere near that dirty brat I would have sided with the flight attendant and I would probably be seeking an attorney to sue the mother for all the hassle she caused. Just as some people do not allow smoking in their homes, I do not allow babies/children/toddlers or ANYONE who cannot hold their liquor past my front door. Children should be neither seen nor heard.

I side with the flight attendant.

[HeeBGBz]

84. Assclowns gotta stick together, eh? n/t

[assclown_bush]

98. And I bet most people who come into contact with YOU get the HeeBGBz...

:hi:

[HeeBGBz]

146. If I'm doing my job right

[assclown_bush]

174. I don't think YOU have any control over the matter.

Have a nice day.:hi:

[HeeBGBz]

207. Like you have a clue.

[trumad]

87. So your from Beverly Hills....

figures...

[assclown_bush]

97. Don't hate me just because I have money...

Hah! What do I care? Go ahead and hate me.

[Midlodemocrat]

107. Probably not.

Probably just where he parks the car he lives in.

[assclown_bush]

115. Projecting?

[Ms. Toad]

100. The interior of an airplane was not past your front door,

so I trust you are joking.

[assclown_bush]

101. Yes, I was exagerating to prove a point...

I am sorry I failed to make that clear.

[Richard Steele]

133. Yeah, that's believable. I'm totally buying it.

:eyes:

[pnwmom]

157. "Just the sight of a baby and I am bothered."??? That tells us a lot about you,

unfortunately, and how little your opinion in this matter means. You made up your mind against the baby, based on its status as a baby, in the absence of any facts. That's prejudice, plain and simple.

[ecstatic]

206. LOL-- is that bitter sarcasm due to smoking restrictions

or are you serious?

[Madspirit]

56. Duct Tape?

Toddlers are mobile babies. They are not old enough to understand that kind of request. LOOK IT UP ON A CHILD DEVELOPMENT SITE OR A PSYCHOLOGY SITE. MOBILE BABY. You cannot quiet a baby unless a baby wants to be quieted. A BABY. If the airline cannot handle a BABY the airline should not allow them. You cannot order an INFANT drugged. This flight attendant needs to be fired and find herself some meds.

As far as all the benefits and rights that flight attendants have lost and all they put up with, IRRELEVANT when it come to abusing a BABY and suggesting DRUGGING them. You don't get to abuse children because you are vocationally oppressed. I think she's a *word not allowed here*.

IF THE AIRLINE CANNOT HANDLE BABY BABBLING THE AIRLINE SHOULD NOT TAKE CHILD PASSENGERS. PERIOD. THEY CAN'T CLAIM TO TAKE THEM AND THEN ABUSE THEM.

Lee

[pnwmom]

75. Another great post, Madspirit.

I never heard the expression "mobile baby" but that describes a toddler precisely.

Thanks for the reality check.

[assclown_bush]

79. That is actually a good idea: prohibit babies from boarding flights!

I could get "on board" with that.

[Warren DeMontague]

59. Good for you. I side with the mom, and hope the flight attendant gets canned.

Maybe she can find a job in an adult bookstore or a bar.

[SaveAmerica]

62. OMG!! You're the flight attendant!! j/k

The Mom said "I don't know what you want me to do, I don't know what you want me to do?". The only thing she said that seemed uncooperative to me was saying she didn't want to give her baby benadryl. You raise good points about the flight industry and how difficult a job it must be now for flight attendants after 9/11, but she was over-the-top and I think the subject should be dropped until they investigate and let everyone know the results.

[driver8]

63. Those of us who fly with children should be forced to travel in the baggage compartment.

Because we are flying with children, we don't deserve to be treated with the same respect that the other passengers receive.

How dare we even think that we should be allowed to mix and mingle with those of you who are so obviously above us because you are not travelling with children. Where the fuck do we get off thinking that we should be treated like everyone else? We should know that we are "less of a customer" because we are flying with children. As a matter of fact, why don't they just print that on the fucking ticket? That way, I will know to never fly on that piece of shit airline again and I won't have to shed a tear when that shitty airline goes down the fucking tubes!

If this flight attendant cannot deal with one small child, she needs a new line of work and fast. If I am flying with my child and it is suggested that I drug my child for the convenience of a flight attendant, I would go through the roof!! The FA was way out of line, owes the woman an apology, and the airline owes the woman an apology. Everyone is stressed about jobs, pensions, benefits, etc - that is no excuse.

[LeftishBrit]

64. While I agree with many of your points...

I still don't think it justifies her actions.

I think that there need to be campaigns for better pay and protection for airline staff, and strikes if need be. But what is not fair here is 'taking it out' on a small child. It is not the child's fault that the airline staff are being exploited.

I do see the point that sometimes the underpaid workers on the front line get the brunt of criticism when the real problem is with the management policies (e.g. shop assistants are often blamed for unhelpfulness which is really caused by shop management policies). If it turns out that the attendant had been ordered by her bosses to 'make sure that all passsengers are quiet during the safety lecture' and would be in trouble if she failed to obey orders, then I will have more sympathy for her. However, if she was simply taking out her frustrations (even if these were justifed) on a relatively safe target, then I still think it is wrong.

[Caria]

65. Observations from a parent

When our daughter was a baby, she cried during take-off and landing because her ears hurt and she did not know how to clear them. Yes, we gave her a bottle. It didn't help. We did not have to fly again until she was 2 1/2. By then, she could cope with the air pressure changes better, but she chattered all the time. She was so excited that she fought sleep. We've flown with her several times since, and she still loves it. She is an enthusiastic traveler and most certainly a future customer for whatever airlines are still in business when she's old enough to travel on her own.

Now that she's a little older, she's able to be quieter on planes. She has a longer attention span, and she knows how to read silently.

And NOW she gets praised by flight attendants and other passengers for being a "A GOOD BABY!" She is a 6-year old with some of her permanent teeth! Should we infer that they expect a baby or toddler to behave like a first-grader?

In the meantime, carry-on rules are making it much more difficult to travel with children of any age. I've seen teething rings and pacifiers confiscated at the gate. Instead of bringing healthy food and drinks from home, we're supposed buy overpriced junk food at the airport. Many toys are not permitted at all. Children are upset when they have to give up Binky or let go of their parents' hands to go through security. Or worse yet, when they get patted down by strangers.

[pnwmom]

74. Why the heck are they confiscating pacifiers? Are they nuts?

Of course they must be. How silly of me.

[Sanctified]

71. You obviously have no children and once you do, well good luck with that.

The woman probably could have got her child to stop saying, "bye, bye, plane" by simply whooping his ass but that would probably have caused a little discomfort for everyone on the plane.

I think the flight attendant should have just accepted that she had a toddler on her flight and acted like an adult instead of acting like a toddler.

[assclown_bush]

73. I agree with you...kick and recommend n/t

[theHandpuppet]

81. Same here...

:thumbsup:

[Kipling]

80. OK, there was fault on both sides, but the way the attendant brought up the issue...

Was completely out of line. 'It's not funny anymore. You need to shut your baby up,'.

[Katherine Brengle]

82. Get over it.

And I still disagree.

:D

[malaise]

88. Put simply when airlines sell tickets to families

with infants and toddlers, I assume they assume all of what's normal with kids.

This thread is rubbish.

[michreject]

90. I agree with you

A few days ago I floored a kid in the grocery store. He flew right on his ass. His mother looked at me and said, "He shouldn't have been running" but said nothing to the kid. Kid got up and ran away. :mad: :mad:

[DrDan]

93. well - have you ever been seated next to an individual who insists

on talking to you? Either out of nervousness or they just love to talk, they just never shut-up no matter how long ignored.

Have you ever seen one removed from the plane?

If I complain to the attendant, can I expect them to be removed?

[tblue37]

94. I have never been a victim of bad f/a attitude, but I have seen

others suffer from it.

On the other hnd, I have often received especially kind treatment from flight attendants and ticket agents.

I am severely hearing-impaired, so I can't comprehend announced info about which gates to go to for connecting flights and other essential information. I also can't understand boarding calls. I tell the ticket agent each time I fly, and they have always come to get me in the waiting area and let me board early. They also inform the flight attendants, who have always made a special effort to help me, too. Usually they come and hand me a note as the flight gets underway, indicating that I should just let them know if I need anything. They write down my connecting gate and give it to me, too.

[gollygee]

104. As someone who has flown with a toddler

by the time they got airborne, no one who wasn't right next to them would have heard the babbling - the drone of the engines drowns it out. Now, if the mom had tried to stop the baby from babbling and the baby had started screaming, no amount of engine noise would drown that out. Babbling is better.

[mainer]

105. I had a FA defend my toddler!

My three yeard old was babbling happily -- not crying, just commenting on everything, as toddlers are wont to do. The businessman next to me asked if I couldn't shut the kid up, and then he complained to the FA that the kid wouldn't stop talking and that I and my son should be moved.

The FA said, "What do you expect, sir? He's a KID!" Then she found an empty seat for him elsewhere. But she was very firm that HE had to move, not me.

[truebrit71]

110. Sooooo what you're saying is that after an 11-hour delay the child should have been as quiet as....

...a mouse and the FA wasn't just projecting her inner anger at a poor career choice onto a small child and her baby?

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight...

:eyes:

[bleedingheart]

111. Perhaps the mother should have suffocated her child to keep him quiet

in order to avoid detection by the Gestapo...

That child has no idea about union issues, 9/11 or job stress...

I recommend that people go to a daycare center and volunteer...see how you can get a child to sit still and be quiet for an hour...hell most adults can't do it.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

112. Couldn't the flight attendant just give the kid some ...

popcorn?

Or don't they allow popcorn on airplanes?

:popcorn:

[rug]

113. I blame the luggage handler.

[Kingshakabobo]

116. I tend to side with the mother but I wouldn't put it past a passenger to say something....

......stupid and then lie about it. As for the other passengers......I don't know how someone 3 rows back could hear any of the exchange and say the mother wasn't out of line - I can barely hear, over engine noise, conversations right next to me on an airplane.

I'm reminded of the "sippy-cup" incident in Reagan airport, The poor downtrodden mother claimed abuse by the TSA employees when she "accidentally spilled" the sippy-cup contents on the floor.......

Well, the video showed a completely different set of circumstances where the mother deliberately dumped the water. Furthermore, she was a complete asshole with a "do you know who I am" attitude because she was a former secret service agent.

THAT SAID, the "zero tolerance" attitude on airplanes has gotten totally out of line since 9/11. Lip off to a flight attendant? Get diverted with an F-16 escort - completely fucking ridiculous. Sure, it's a federal crime to disobey a flight-crew member but discretion needs to be used.

Two sides of every story and the truth probably lies in the middle. The FA was probably "technically" correct.

It takes two assholes to tango.

[Marrah_G]

117. here we go again

My ignore list keeps growing.

[NashVegas]

118. So, You Regularly Side Without Full Information?

You cite DUers' emotional arguments and add your own, but by not further researching the matter in more detailed articles than have been posted on DU, you miss several reported allegations:

1. The FA was RUDE.

A request to a passenger goes like this: "Miss/Ma'am, (will you/can you) please quiet your child"; a request does not take the form of "OK, it's not funny anymore, you need to shut your baby up."

A request would sound like this: "We have some baby Benedryl, would you like to give him some?"

A request would not sound or look like this: "'Well, it's called Baby Benedryl.' just a little, you know, drinking motion."


Another choice quote from the story: "So, I asked her, you know, 'Are you kidding?' And she said, no, she was tired, she'd been stranded at the airport all day, and she did not want to hear it."

2. At a certain point, it becomes obvious the FA wants to have someone to take her rough day out on:

"Penland said she told the flight attendant that she expected her child to fall asleep momentarily. 'It doesn't matter. Regardless, I don't want to hear it,'" Penland said the flight attendant told her."

3. The FA LIED to the captain and said the passenger threatened her. Witnesses who saw and heard the whole exchange (on these little planes, everyone is in the aisle seat) reported otherwise.

4. The only thing the passenger did that was wrong was rising to the FA's level (or near it) of rudeness, challenging her authority to order her to drug the child, and the reason for doing so: "And I said, 'Well, I'm not going to drug my child so you have a pleasant flight.' "


5. The FA was on a power trip, and she got called on it by a passenger who was either too tired or too clueless to just sweetly say, "no thank you." There were witnesses. Not on DU, but the plane itself.

[Nikki Stone1]

126. We haven't heard yet from the FA. We only have one side of the story.

I am working from the details and counting for bias on the part of the mother in question.

There had to be a significant altercation for the FA to convince the pilot to turn the plane around. You don't just do that for no reason. And as far as this "drugging" the child is concerned, that remark sounds like exasperation after a period of non-compliance by a passenger. The toddler was talking through the security lecture. He was getting in the way of the FA doing her job, his mother was not doing anything to quiet him.

This story is about airline safety and an uncooperative passenger. It just so happens the passenger was a mother with her child. But, if any of us refused to comply with a flight attendant's legitimate request, we might be be brought back to the airport, too, and rightfully so.

[NashVegas]

143. A Legitimate Request Should Be in the Form of a Request

There were several witnesses to the events and they're all backing up the complainant.

Bias on the part of the complainant (because that's the only side we've heard) doesn't necessarily mean the complainant is lying.

With all accounts backing her up (so far), one can only assume that you are biased against her and will be so until the FA (who is already accused of lying by more than one party) corroborates events as we have been told.

[yardwork]

148. We have numerous "sides" of the story. The other travelers.

None of the other travelers who witnessed the incident are related to the mother. One would expect the other travelers to tend to side with the airline, since any safety issue would have affected them directly.

Instead, we've heard from several witnesses, all stating that the toddler was NOT bothering anybody but the flight attendant, and that the mother did nothing wrong. They WERE severely inconvenienced by the flight returning to the gate to haul the mother and child off the plane, though.

[pnwmom]

166. The FA lied to the pilot, saying that she had been threatened.

The problem for her is, none of the witnesses in various news accounts back her up. According to one account, a witness was so upset by the situation that she left the plane to "show solidarity" with the mother.

http://www.insideedition.com/ourstories/inside_stories/story.aspx?storyid=850


"Kate says the flight attendant told her to give him baby Benadryl -allergy medication that would quiet him down and even put him to sleep, but Kate refused to do it.

"She put her hand on her hip and said: 'This is my plane and I don't want to hear it,'" Kate said.

"The young mother says the next thing she knew, the plane was taxiing back to the gate and a security guard escorted them off the flight. Kate said she was informed the flight attendant had told the captain that Karen threatened her.

"INSIDE EDITION spoke with Stacy Watts and Sandy Taylor, passengers on the same flight who said they didn't think Garren was threatening the flight attendant. In fact, Watts was so upset she also got off the plane to show solidarity with Kate and the baby."

SNIP

[madmom]

119. If it were me I would seriously look into having the flight attendant

cited, or something for trying to make me abuse a child! Then punish me for not doing it.

[marions ghost]

130. this is about child abuse?!

:silly:

Ridiculous to say the FA was advocating abusing a child. She might have been unfair, we don't know. But this is NOT about prevention of child abuse. Get a grip.

[madmom]

192. it most certainly is child abuse to drug a child just to keep them quiet!!!

[mdelaguna2000]

120. Entitlement mentality.

What a luxury to be able to get all stressed out and and make an issue of a toddler's verbalism on a plane. Sometimes we don't know how lucky we are.

[rucky]

122. So who's the ADULT in this scenario? n/t

[pingzing58]

128. If the flight attendant cracked so easily - she's no longer capable of securing the safety

the passengers. She should be terminated immediately.

[Nikki Stone1]

131. It's not about cracking necessarily. If you or I got into an altercation with her, we might be

taken off the plane too. They can't take the risk with non-compliant passengers when they are 10,000 feet up with nowhere to go.

[pnwmom]

158. No one got into an altercation with her, according to numerous

witnesses.

You keep arguing that point but without any evidence.

[wryter2000]

132. I don't have kids

But it seems to me that a child has to be a certain age before he/she can learn to "behave." Given that, how are you supposed to take a child to see grandma on the other end of the country? Drive?

What if grandma is old and infirm and can't come to the kid? I guess you could make parents give up vacations until the child is old enough to control his/her behavior. But sometimes a child has to go on a plane.

[pnwmom]

189. You don't have kids

but if you ever decide to have them, I think you have the makings of a good, empathic one.

Write on!

[RubyDuby in GA]

135. Sorry. I'm gonna call bullshit too.

If the people around this mother and her child weren't bothered, then the flight attendent needed to go pop a valium and shut the hell up.

And don't give me this "overworked and underpaid" crap. I'm overworked and underpaid too, but I don't kick people out of my office. Perhaps she needs to rethink her career choice as she seems to be having trouble doing her job - which is supposed to be making people comfortable on flights.

She had a bad day and took it out on a kid. Sorry. She's not getting any sympathy from me.

[Bluebear]

136. Flight attendants are not able to pop valiums.

Just sayin'.

[RubyDuby in GA]

142. Point taken.

Maybe she could just have a swig of baby Benadryl...

:sarcasm:

[pnwmom]

160. Hah! n/t

[skygazer]

140. I also call bullshit

As someone who works with customers on a daily basis, whose pay and benefits have been cut, who has to do more work for less money because of layoffs, etc., I call bullshit.

It's the flight attendant's job to deal with possibly difficult people. If she can't do that without recommending to a mother that she drug her baby, she needs to find a different job. That's simply a guarantee that the person will be "uncooperative."

I deal with obnoxious people and bratty kids every day. There's a right way to do it and a wrong way. This was the wrong way. Since the rest of the passengers were NOT bothered by the kid's behavior and even spoke up on the mother's behalf, this is a lame argument at best.

Being fed up with your job is no excuse for behavior like that. Try again.

[fishnfla]

141. I can somewhat empathize with the FA, but for the drugging thing....

If she did indeed recommending medicating a healthy child, or any child, she should lose her job and probably will.
She is not a physician and all it would take is for one kid to have an allergic reaction on another flight and the airline faces a huge lawsuit

[Dragonbreathp9d]

144. Wrong, neg.

If the flight attendant was that afraid of a little kid, the terrorists have won.

[Beausoir]

145. LOL. n/t

[MissB]

147. The flight attendant suggested drugging a child.

I don't give one shit how overworked she was/is. Poor flight attendant, my ass.

[Zavulon]

152. I'm on the attendant's side, too.

When in doubt - given that I only have one side of the story - I will give the benefit of the doubt to the adult, not the child, especially since I saw that video of the mother and kid on that morning show.

Also, if flight attendants actually had the power to stop planes and throw people off just for annoying them, why are incidents like so rare?

There's more to this story. Since I've only got one side so far, I side against the loud baby until being given a reason not to.

[pnwmom]

161. Why are you ignoring the reports of the numerous witnesses

who said there was no disruption?

If I were one of those passengers -- whose flight was further delayed for no good reason -- I would be upset too. A whole plane load of people were inconvenienced, and some very well might have missed connecting flights, all because of that flight attendant's short temper.

[Zavulon]

167. First of all, I don't know how many were actually near the kid.

Lots of people were on the plane, lots of which might have been interested in being on TV. I know someone, for instance, who was assigned to the Pentagon on 9/11, called in sick that day, and was still doing interviews about what it was like in the building that day.

Second of all, again, I've only heard one side. The flight attendant probably can't speak for legal reasons, but I'm still not convicting her until I've heard everything.

Third of all, I'm still not even convinced that a flight attendant has the power to stop a plane and throw off a passenger. If I were a flight attendant and had that power, you could get kicked off my flight for many things...

Swearing at me
Just being snotty
Taking your shoes off when your feet reek
Bad breath
Attempting to order an alcoholic drink before takeoff
Stinking up a bathroom to the point where people outside suffer

...and so on, and so on.

After seeing your username, I'm just curious as to how old your kid(s) is / are...?

[pnwmom]

173. The FA lied to the pilot, saying that she had been threatened.

However, none of the witnesses (in nearby seats) back her up. One of the witnesses was so upset she got off the plane along with the crying mother, to "show solidarity."

I have three children, from high school to adult. But I can remember the challenge of keeping small children quietly occupied on a plane flight to Grandma's.

And now I enjoy sitting beside other people's young children on airplane flights, and it often happens, for some reason.

[Zavulon]

178. How do you know that for sure?

We hear allegations of a lie, I have not seen proof, I have yet to see a recording.

I truly mean you no offense, I'm not trying to be snide, but as for the mother showing "solidarity" I believe that mothers just stick together. You, for instance, are a mother and believe every pro-mom account you've heard, essentially convicting the FA without hearing her side. The "solidarity" mom may well have been a mother who sided with a young crying mother out of instinct.

Full disclosure: I freely admit that I do not like being around children and am the exact opposite of your "now I enjoy sitting beside other people's young children on airplane flights." I find small children on flights so annoying that I usually get on the plane last so as to see where I'll be sitting, and if there are infants near me I leave the plane and take another flight. As such, I'm not exactly innocent of what I'm sort of implying about you (kneejerk support of the side you would tend to support instinctively), but the fact remains that we've only heard one side.

If it turns out that the FA was in fact a bitch, I will be the first to say I was wrong - but if it turns out that the kid was anything like he was on that morning show, I'd find it hard to sympathize with anyone but the FA.

In the meantime, I wish I had your patience for kids. As it stands, I'm one of those who wishes for all-adult airlines and restaurants, so...at any rate, one way or the other, I hope we get to hear the other side someday.

[rucky]

156. You'd turn the freakin' plane around over it? n/t

[pnwmom]

162. How do you think that planeload of passengers felt -- having to turn around

and seriously delay their takeoff -- because a FA couldn't cope with a baby's babbling?

I bet some of them missed their connections because of this FA's power trip.

[Bryn]

164. I think FA got ticked by just "Bye Bye Plane"

words of a toddler. To her, it means "Plane will crash, plane gone, bye bye, plane" ... to that toddle, it simply means "I am flying on a plane. Wheeee!"

I'd love to see what that FA looks like.

[pnwmom]

168. You obviously understand Baby-ese. That was my translation, too. n/t

[JVS]

165. This story needed a tasering

[Name removed]

169. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[assclown_bush]

175. Wonderful post.

:applause:

[MissB]

179. How is that tombstone fitting you?

[blondeatlast]

182. At last. I pegged that one early. nt

[deadparrot]

177. What does that have to do with this story? nt

[Ikonoklast]

181. Nothing, as per usual

This poster is just showing his moral superiority over the great unwashed.

Not pointing fingers at trolls, as that is against the rules.

[pnwmom]

183. You may be able to control your children, but you don't seem to be able

to control your ill temper or your nasty mouth.

[demgurl]

172. I believe, as a member of the Democratic party, that it....

is my job to pick up for the weakest among us. That, in this case, would be the child. I understand having a bad day and after that long of a delay I am sure no one on that plane was happy. Any parent will tell you that they know their child and whether or not they will be quiet. After an 11 hour wait I am quite sure I could not have kept my children quiet at that age. When they were that age and we went to restaurants we knew we had about 30 or 45 (on a good day) minutes to get in and out. Sometimes we even asked for our check when we ordered. I can not imagine how well tempered that child was being in such a good mood after that period of time.

But let's get back to the real subject here. The difference between the FA and the child is that the FA has the real ability to reason. She can input information and process it while she should understand that the child can not at that age.

I am a mystery shopper and I was taken aback by her attitude. I once flew on a plane and when I pointed out an old lemon, on the floor, to a FA she said 'Jesus Christ' as she picked it up. She didn't say it too loudly, just loud enough so I would know that it was a great imposition to her that I would point out such a thing. Of course, this was the same FA who was not around when I needed her because she was busy flirting with make passengers she had flirted with inside the airport. When I phoned the airline they thought the FA was totally in the wrong.

Whatever happened to customer service? The last time I flew I spent a hefty chunk of my money on a ticket and when all other things have been cutback (besides the pack of 5 peanuts) you sort of at least expect to get customer service. Perhaps if she had gone over and tried to distract the infant and then politely asked the mom if there was anything she could do to help the mom to keep her child's volume down, then the outcome would have been much different.

The FA chose that job but the child did not choose the delay. The FA knew she would have to deal with children and infants. The child is not old enough to know she was bigging people. The Mom AND child are customers, the FA is an employee.

[pnwmom]

184. I feel the same way. I expect Dems to have a heart,

and to feel some empathy for "the weakest among us."

I'm amazed at finding so many people here who seem to want to broadcast how much they hate children.

[demgurl]

186. I am truly amazed as well.

I saw another thread where people where talking about whining and crying children and maybe I missed something but from what I read this little one was just babbling about saying 'bye-bye' to the plane. The FA was on the intercom so I am sure she could not be drowned out and if you want to talk about rude, I believe when the FA said for the mom to shut the child up, well, that was the height of rudeness.

I have seriously wondered if some posters have forgotten to use the sarcasm smilie for their posts.
I am waiting for a poster to say it is a great thing that our military are killing so many Iraqi children so there are that many fewer children we have to put up with in the world.

We are a party that fights for the weak. We want single mothers to have every advantage. We want the whole country to have health care. We fight to have minimum wage increased. We look out for those who can not do it themselves. We are the party who has a heart. I want my party and my country back.

[pnwmom]

187. Well said, Demgurl.

When some Democrats act like this, who needs Republicans?

[demgurl]

190. I'll tell you one thing....

this talk would not be tolerated if you substituted the words 'black', 'women' or 'Christian' instead of baby or children. Imagine a post saying that black people/gays/women/Christians/etc.....should not be allowed in restaurants/public place of choice. Those people would be banned in an instant. Why is this any less offensive?

[pnwmom]

193. You're right, and I've been thinking the same thing.

It's just another kind of prejudice, and it's amazing how people are freely admitting it. Some of them almost seem proud of it.

[demgurl]

194. I have no room for prejudice and .......

I am amazed at how tolerant others are of it. I halfway expect posts to start with, "I'm not prejudiced, but......" Is everyone just not seeing this? Are we the only ones? We have a pretty educated crowd here, how can such ignorance be tolerated?

By the way, I am not talking about those who just say the FA was right. I am talking about those who say they hate children and they should be banned, etc.....

[pnwmom]

195. Or the ones who say

that they are on the flight attendant's side because they can't stand kids anyway.

Very sad. It's their loss. But it's ours too, to live in a country where so many people feel this way. It's not like this in most parts of the world.

[demgurl]

199. I agree, but I also want to be careful not to paint everyone.....

with the same brush. Some people may just not care for children but they do not HATE them with a vitriol that would make most cringe. I think there is a difference and I do want to be fair.

[pnwmom]

200. There's the difference in a nutshell. You're trying to be fair.

Not everybody here is.

[gollygee]

196. I've started alerting

on posts that call children "crotch droppings" or anything like that. It's against DU rules to use bigoted slurs.

[demgurl]

197. Wow, I have not seen those.

Guess you alerted before I saw it. I can not believe the hate being spewed and the fact not many seem concerned or even get it.

[pnwmom]

201. Good point. I was disgusted, too, but didn't think of that. n/t

[demgurl]

202. Oh my goodness, I just found that post.

That is so offensive. I never thought I would read such a thing at DU. I am saddened.

[deadparrot]

176. Lots of people have lost job protections since Bush came into office.

On that note, I completely sympathize. But if this FA has a problem, if she is stressed, she needs to take that up with her employers, NOT with the mother of a toddler, especially the mother of a toddler who is apparently quite well-behaved.

On the point that she has to work in a cramped, inconvenient atmosphere, I have less sympathy. That's what goes along with being a flight attendant. Yes, I'm sure it sucks, but if you're unable to handle that, then perhaps it's time to search for another job.

And where did it say that the mother was asked "several times" to quiet her child? He wasn't screaming. He was babbling, like a child does. What do you want her to do, gag the kid?

[treestar]

180. How can a toddler saying "bye bye plane" bother anyone that much?

Why would it bother anyone at all?

There is no way the kid is going to keep it up that long, either. Children do not have long attention spans.

It would have been easy to distract the child, too.

The FA should have been nice to the child, distracted him, and he would have stopped.

[pnwmom]

185. When the flight attendant told her to make her child "shut up,"

the mother replied that he was about to fall asleep anyway. And he did. They had to wake him up to remove him from the plane!

[Bluebear]

198. Good grief, people~!

:crazy: lol

[Zomby Woof]

205. I think the flight attendant AND the mother both suck

I don't think this is an either/or - clearly, they both deserve to go 'bye bye'.