An empire of corporations have us in a death grip.

[Cyrano]

It's time we all woke up. Nothing to date has broken the hold of the band of thieves who currently front for their corporate masters. Uprovoked war, torture, spying on Americans, a Dictator-in-Chief named Dick, the biggest heist of wealth in the history of the world, treason, stolen elections, the death of habeas corpus, war crimes -- well, do I really need to list the day-to-day outrages of the past 6 1/2 years? We can all recite them.

And it's no longer a "tin-foil-hat" thought to believe that those currently holding the reins of power will willingly let go. After all, they've found they can do anything they want and the (effective) response will be -- nothing.

As much as I abhor the thought, and as much as I cringe at the idea that such a thought is even within the realm of possibility, I believe that the clouds of another war for liberty are on the horizon.

However, the enemy is much larger than Cheney, Bush, their ilk, and the fools who follow them. The enemy is the empire of multinational corporations who literally control the world and would replace the current tyrants with others who just happen to have different names. And it's past time for their reign to come to an end.

Edited for spelling.

[BonnieJW]

1. That's what worries me about Hillary.

Rupert Murdoch is backing her and contributing to her campaign.

[zehnkatzen]

35. He's just making sure he's got both sides covered.

Now, I'm not saying that Rupert isn't some neocon moran. He does, however recognize a salient truth; you don't have to be a weatherman to know which way the wind's blowing.

Should Hill become prez in 09, he'll just have a string on her he can pull if needbe. That's it.

That all doesn't change the fact that Rupert Murdoch is evil, evil, evil, of course.

[cascadiance]

66. That's the way dictatorships work. They control all of the candidates in "elections"...

It has happened in other countries too. Those that really might represent a will of the people are kept out of any elections. We have the same thing becoming more of a problem here now.

[L0oniX]

47. Hillary Clinton is corrupt according to the Judicial Watch articles

<snip>According to New Judicial Watch – Zogby Poll : 45% of Likely Voters Concerned there will be “High Levels of Corruption in the White House” if Hillary is Elected President

http://www.judicialwatch.org/6241.shtml

http://www.judicialwatch.org/hillarywatch.shtml

http://www.judicialwatch.org/printer_hillarywatch.shtml

[kenfrequed]

62. Ok now

I think Murdoch contributing to her campaign is a problem. And I do have troubles with the people Hillary is taking money from.

However I really don't put a lot of faith in Judicial Watch. Despite its occasional snips at republicans it remains a hack group that wasted a good deal of time during the nineties pursuing Bill Clinton. Despite the fact I am not a fan of either Clinton I don't believe a right wing hit group is a good resource for information.

[leftchick]

70. Corporations LOVE Hillary.....

[Deja Q]

79. I thought they ahted her for her universal health care 'womb to the tomb' song initiative?

:shrug:

[Arugula Latte]

84. Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.

I'm always astonished Hillary has support here on DU.

[Clark2008]

85. I'm surprised any of the top three have support.

They're all cut from the same cloth, although Obama has less of that cloth (he seems the most decent, but not by much).

That's why I'm having difficulty choosing a candidate. Kucinich or Gravel have the most potential to help the poor and middle class (despite all Edwards blustering about it - I don't think he really cares all that much. At least he didn't when he was a senator and could have done something about it), but I don't think either one of them can win in a general election.

[leftchick]

86. well

there has always been a DLC/AIPAC/Pro-Corporate faction here. I just never realized how large it is.

[Mandate My Ass]

90. They are legion

Seriously, it's demoralizing how many there are and how loud they are.

[Individualist]

110. ...and getting larger

[BeHereNow]

113. Which is why the IGNORE button is our friend!

:evilgrin: :smoke: :toast:
BHN

[Locrian]

2. agree

I keep saying it's not just bush. He WILL go away, eventually. It's the corporate fascists that have destroyed the country - an it hasn't happened overnight.

This is a GREAT book that lays it all out: Screwed: The Undeclared War Against the Middle Class - And What We Can Do about It

http://www.amazon.com/Screwed-Undeclared-Against-Middle-Currents/dp/1576754634/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-3020830-7689756?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1184615091&sr=8-1


"Beginning with the Reagan administration, the U.S. government has steadily instituted policies and legislation that favor corporations over citizens, argues Air America host Hartmann (The Ultimate Sacrifice). Analyzing the rhetoric and policies of the current administration's "compassionate conservatism," Hartmann goes on to detail the ways in which safety nets for working people (from progressive taxation to antitrust legislation to Social Security) have been steadily weakened, and argues that an empowered, educated middle class is crucial to a functioning democracy. Chapters detail the ways in which what gets called "the free market" is not really free (for good reason, he notes), how "We the People create the middle class," how the policies of the Founding Fathers and figures like FDR still have a lot to teach us, and ways for "Leveling the Playing Field." Though far from comprehensive, and despite its sensationalist title, Hartmann's latest is an intelligent critique of the contemporary plight of the middle class."

[truedelphi]

11. Thanks for the book mention.

I was trying to remember the name of that book

[Larry Ogg]

73. I know a lot of people like to blame the Republicans starting with Ronald Reagan

and yes Ronald Reagan is one of the worst things that ever happened to this country but it didn’t start with him either, and as long as the Democrat constituency continues to believe that, they will continue to elect those into office who will not stand in the way of the corporate elites and this country will continue it’s decent into fascism.

I know it is difficult for people to except the idea that the champions they elected into office to represent them were actually champions of the minority elite i.e. the ruling class…

Take a look at one example, in this short article ‘http://afgen.com/trilateral.html">Trilateral Commission: World Shadow Government’ just one of many small pieces of the big picture…

The Trilateral Commission was established in 1973. Its founder and primary financial angel was international financier, David Rockefeller, longtime chairman of the Rockefeller family-controlled Chase Manhattan Bank and undisputed overlord of his family's global corporate empire.

snip:

RULING CLASSES UNITE
"The Commission's purpose is to engineer an enduring partnership among the ruling classes of North America, Western Europe and Japan -- hence the term 'Trilateral' -- in order to safeguard the interests of Western capitalism in an explosive world. The private commission is attempting to mold public policy and construct a framework for international stability in the coming decades.
"To put it simply, Trilateralists are saying: The people, governments and economies of all nations must serve the needs of multinational banks and corporations.

"In short, Trilateralism is the current attempt by ruling elites to manage both dependence and democracy -- at home and abroad."

Another Trilateral critic, now-retired Sen. Barry Goldwater (R-Ariz.), views the commission as a Rockefeller family operation through and through. According to Goldwater:
"The Trilateral organization created by David Rockefeller was a surrogate -- the members selected by Rockefeller, its purposes defined by Rockefeiler, its funding supplied by Rockefeller. David Rockefeller screened and selected every individual who was invited to participate."

PICKING POLICYMAKERS
David Rockefeller and Brzezinski then began the process of selecting from among the "Trilateral" nations the several hundred elite power brokers who would be permitted to join in Trilateral policymaking in the coming years.

One of the commission's primary goals was to place a Trilateral-influenced president in the White House in 1976, and to achieve that goal it was necessary to groom an appropriate candidate who would be willing to cooperate with Trilateral aims.

Rockefeller and Brzezinski selected a handful of well-known liberal Democrats and a scattering of Republicans (primarily of the liberal-internationalist bent) to serve on the commission. And in an effort to give regional balance to the commission Rockefeller invited the then-obscure one-term Democratic governor of Georgia, Jimmy Carter, to join the commission.

snip:

CUT AND DRIED
From that point on, it was all cut and dried. According to Goldwater: "Rockefeller and Brzezinski found Carter to be their ideal candidate. They helped him win the Democratic nomination and the presidency.

"To accomplish this purpose they mobilized the money-power of the Wall Street bankers, the intellectual influence of the academic community -- which is subservient to the wealth of the great tax-free foundations -- and the media controllers represented in the membership of the CFR and the Trilateralists."

snip:

Carter, of course, campaigned as a "populist" -- as a "man of the people" -- as an "outsider" with no ties to the Establishment. The fact is, however, Carter, who said he'd never lie, was an elitist, an insider, the Trilateral Commission's "man in the white house."
And with the power of the commission and the Rockefeller empire and its media influence behind him, Carter made his way to the presidency, establishing the first full-fledged Trilateral administration, appointing numerous Trilateralists to key policymaking positions and carrying out the Trilateral agenda to the hilt.

As I said, just one of many small pieces of the big picture, democrats were and still are being bought and paid for just as much as their supposedly republican counterparts, if they are representative of and do the bidding of the elite minority they go to the top of the political latter, if they are representative of the working class majority and of the poor the best they can do is make some noise that few will listen too.

[roxnev]

97. Republican Smoke

In your post you name a dead Republican then go and jump all over the Democrats So I must assume you are a republican. Against Hillary. Hey the Republicans have been in control of the Congress 12 years and the white house for six years and you Blaming Carter and Hillary show that you are a republican trying to be a mole for the Trilateral Commission's that is a Republican dream.:evilgrin:

[Larry Ogg]

107. Do you often find yourself arriving at ridiculous conclusions when confronted by historical facts?

Does it seems as thou you are more driven by defensive hostility wallowing in naïve nationalism void of any real sense of objective reasoning. In other words, you would much rather be wrong, sling the bull and be proud of it, when the truth does not support your view or those of your friends…

As such, if it seems these are the attributes of your thought processes, consider yourself as being very much akin to those found among the constituency of the Republican Party, ideals based on faith with overt contempt towards reality and intellect unfamiliar to you.

Such attributes are also consistent among those whose anal sphincter is restricting blood flow to the remaining but very small amount of dwindling gray mater, further diminishing one’s ability to achieve a cognitive state through higher reasoning. If you feel you might be suffering from any of these conditions you should really consider visiting a proctologist so he can remove your head out of your ass before it’s to late.

Further more when the need arises there are those who find it is more prudent to decent, to be critical and to voice their opinion when any politician places personal greed over the Constitution and the rights and will of the people.

I know this must be hard for you to understand but I really do wish I could say that all of our elected democrats and as well as republicans were immune from corruption and beyond reproach, but that would require me to be near brain dead, suffering from acute amnesia or just plane stupid.

One more thing for what it’s worth: If I overlook the transgressions and broken laws of the ones you support, what right do I have to judge the ones you do not?

[jaybeat]

96. Great book!

Tom is a true patriot. (I'm sure he'll be one of the first to be locked up...)

[Mandate My Ass]

3. There's no doubt in my mind 12/12/00 was a bloodless coup

And the "gov't" is doing what it does in any third world country after a coup, helping itself to all the goodies and screwing the people.

Hillary is not the solution. I'm not sure what is, but I know it isn't Hillary.

[Locrian]

4. crash

I believe this too. I also think that the borrowing and false economy will eventually cause a collapse.

When it comes, it will be the biggest fire sale in the worlds history for the super rich to become owners of ALL. Everything will go - public land, your assets (house etc) for pennies on the dollar.

[Mandate My Ass]

6. The Great Depression was very, very good for a very few people

Methinks the next great depression will be much worse and bloodier.

This is the S&L scandal all over again except the whole country will go next time.

[Locrian]

8. yes - wonderful time

My dad went through it - still remembers and sees the parallels.

I think we have actually passed depression levels on debt etc. It will be a big fall.

[Demeter]

63. The Crash Will Take Out the Big Guys

because there's only so much loot one can defend in a crisis without any friends. They wanted to destroy the rule of law--and they don't get to suddenly bring it back after they've smashed it all. Nature abhores a vacuum, and that's what they've created.

[defendandprotect]

21. America stood mute over Election 2000 + SC decision ????

Absolutely . . .
I couldn't believe that America seemed to stand so silently watching that steal/that injustice.

As I began to look at the OVERT political violence which began in the 1960's . . .
JFK, MLK, RFK, Malcolm X . . .

The questioning of many more deaths became visible -- Dag Hammrskjold, Adlai Stevenson . . .
just to name a few.

Recently I was reading of the death of someone who was investigating the Ohio 2004 elections.

This is, of course, the only way for the right-wing to come to power; political violence, propaganda, lies, aggressive political attacks on opponents; war . . . and as Putin labelled it . . . "The Reichstag Fire in NYC" --

[The Doctor.]

33. There was only one man on the planet who could announce his candidacy...

and walk straight into the White House in the 2000 elections hands down.

In a remarkable coincidence, he died tragically before any such announcement might have been made.

[Clark2008]

87. If you're speaking of Paul Wellstone, I doubt that.

While I liked and admired him, he didn't have the chops to beat the media.

The media is the problem in this country - this is why our top three front-runners are all corporate shills.

[The Doctor.]

105. No...

I'm talking about a guy who might have announced in 98 or 99.

Like I said, the only man on the planet that could have announced and then walked into the White House in 2000. The media loved him, and he was a Democrat... a rare find indeed.

[windbreeze]

108. JFK Jr.....n/t

[The Doctor.]

111. Yes. And the more I think about it, the more certain I am...

They had to eliminate him.

[windbreeze]

114. Absolutely....

there is NO doubt in my mind...
I just spent hours trying to find a link I had about some things, since you brought this up...

http://tinyurl.com/2ok78j

see how you feel after reading this..
wb

[Vilis Veritas]

50. TV has dulled the senses.

The vast majority of the American public has become dulled to everyday life. If they see it happening on TV, it is of no concern. TV after all, is not real.

Also, I believe an edit to your statement "This is, of course, the only way for the right-wing to come to power; political violence, propaganda, lies, aggressive political attacks on opponents" is in order.

Might I suggest;

"This is, of course, the only way for the Corporafascist to come to power; political violence, propaganda, lies, aggressive political attacks on opponents (to make it seem as if there is a two party system)."

Give the people cake. Give them a world of un-reality reality shows. A world created to appease the masses, so long as the majority of people are fooled, the rest will seem like crazy idiots for not following the leader...

Peace.

[Raster]

38. this "gov't " isn't just helping itself to goodies, it is strip-mining the country

and leaving nothing but death and rubble in its wake. The behemoth corporations, for the most part, have been hideous world citizens. And they will always seem to find greedy, unprincipled collaborators to do their bidding.

Cowards and collaborators, like the bush* family

[CrispyQ]

58. So true:

The behemoth corporations, for the most part, have been hideous world citizens.

Their personhood rights should be revoked.

[Raster]

92. Their person-hood rights SHOULD HAVE NEVER BEEN GRANTED!

Corporations don't breathe the air nor drink the water. In the corporate sphere, we humans are assets and liabilities. And in the business of war, our children are just raw materials.

Wake Up America!

[WinkyDink]

39. Of course it was a coup d'etat. And a brazen one at that.

[WinkyDink]

40. (Double post.)

[CrispyQ]

56. Pigs at the trough.

Too many of our dems want to be first at the trough, not get rid of the trough.

Bumper sticker:

We don't have a democracy, we have an auction.

[blm]

112. Agreed. They didn't trust Gore or Kerry to do their bidding, so Bush was left

to his imperialistic devices until they could install the NEXT corporatists' cover.

[Bonobo]

5. THIS is what the DLC'ers don't get and what the Greens talk about.

Thanks for playing.

[truedelphi]

13. And it was the THIRD PARTY PEOPLE

That took a stand in Ohio against the '04 stolen election - Kerry's lawyers never showed.

David Cobb's and Nader's people and money arranged for the recount there.

Hillary was more intent on biding her time waiting for her moment of glory.

[mdmc]

71. God Bless those that stand up to the corporations

Cobb is legit. I wish we had someone like that in 08.
Oh wait, we do - DK!
Peace and low stress to you and yours.

[Bonobo]

104. DK. I agree. Same to you!

[mdmc]

106. yes

:)

[Locrian]

7. the World is NOT flat

Go here and watch the two videos:

http://www.mkpress.com/Flat/

Shift Happens (6 min)
http://www.mkpress.com/ShiftHappens

World is Flat? (13 min)
http://www.mkpress.com/FlatOverview.html

[DeSwiss]

9. We were warned a long time ago....

"...crush in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country. Today, instead, the aristocracy of the corporation has grown to full maturity, wielding power over the state and its laws in the service of corporate aims." ~ Thomas Jefferson

K&R

[defendandprotect]

20. Corporate Royalty . . . based on King-of-the-Hill Capitalism . . .

I never heard/saw that Jefferson quote before -- thank you!

[L0oniX]

48. An excellent Thomas Jefferson quote

[Vilis Veritas]

52. Thomas Jefferson was a great orator...

Here is another one...

"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. Already they have raised up a monied aristocracy that has set the government at defiance. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people to whom it properly belongs."

For easy access to more Jefferson Quotes (some of them have been snipped a bit, but there is enough to get you going):

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/t/thomas_jefferson.html

Peace

edited title to more accurately reflect my feelings...hero was a bit much...

[Green Mountain Dem]

10. Welcome....

to The United Corporations of America and for which they stand! Take your pick...Pharma, Big Oil, Insurance, Media, DOJ, SCOTUS, DOD, EPA, etc, etc, etc! We are so fucked IF we do nothing to challenge these bastards and their fascist PNAC agenda. WHEN will the sleeping GIANT awake and take action?? I am old and I am sick BUT I am READY...if all I can do is beat these bastards with my cane, I will do it.. just let me know when and where and I will be there. My 8 yr old granddaughter needs me to prove that we can change things..and that the past 6 years have been error that we must correct! Help me..and her..to make our country a better place.

[porphyrian]

12. Change will come when enough of us have nothing left to lose.

One way or another.

[Quantess]

14. "...the biggest heist of wealth in the history of the world..."

So true.

[Joe Chi Minh]

15. You don't have an economy. You have a jungle dominated by reptilian

predators. Nor is it much better in the UK.

[melody]

16. K&R

I'd have added the Jefferson quote, but DeSwiss already posted it.

If anything has proved the necessity for strong regulation of corporations,
it's the last seven hellish years.

[DeSwiss]

17. I'm a quote collector...

;)

Here's another one that I think is apropos:

Big Government and Big Business ... will try to impose social and cultural uniformity upon adults and their children. To achieve this they will (unless prevented) make use of all the mind-manipulating techniques at their disposal and will not hesitate to reinforce these methods of non-rational persuasion by economic coercion and threats of physical violence. If this kind of tyranny is to be avoided, we must begin without delay to educate ourselves and our children for freedom and self-government. Such an education for freedom should be ... first of all in facts and in values — the facts of individual diversity and genetic uniqueness and the values of freedom, tolerance and mutual charity, which are the ethical corollaries of these facts. ~ Aldous Huxley

[Locrian]

18. nice quote

OOooh but look over here: scary gay people, welfare queens, terrorists, the french,. Boo.

[DeSwiss]

19. Precisely. n/t

:)

[moondust]

22. GWB was the corporate choice

right from the beginning of Campaign 2000. I think that says something profound about corporate judgement in general.

[BeHereNow]

26. And what better choice could they have swindled the Free-To-Be-Dumb people with?

After all, he's just a "good ole' brush clearing cowboy" right?
One of "them."

Many Americans bought the ruse; hook, line and sinker.
Quite a brilliant marketing ploy, if you think about it,
but what else could you expect from corporate executives?

BHN

[greyghost]

80. Exactly...

The MSM "outlets" were pushing for Bush from jump street.

I hate to say it, but it appears that Hillary is their girl.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

23. We need to go from imperial power to self sustaining pretty damn quick.

MKJ

[BeHereNow]

24. You nailed it- many of us have tried to point that out for years-

Unfortunately, kool aid is apparently being served
in larges doses to both parties.
We have become a nation of "True Believers."
Blinded by our egotistical righteousnous and insistence
that OUR party is the good party although both are completely
funded and managed by multi national corporate thugs.

Sleep on America.

BHN

[BeHereNow]

25. K&R!!!!!!!!!!!

Let the truth be told.
BHN

[EVDebs]

27. Corporations are pathological

http://salonesoterica.wordpress.com/2007/07/08/the-corporation-movie-the-historical-pathological-pursuit-of-profit-and-power/

[Usrename]

28. Yes, it's not about parties any more, it's all about Empire.

Many in the Democratic party leadership embrace the entire Bush Doctrine. How do we move past the leaders in our own party?

[wiley]

29. True

But what is this sickness people have with Senator Clinton? It's a Bush level signal of mental inferiority. Stop the gratuitous trashing.

[antigop]

30. OMG! A thread where people actually "get it".

How refreshing to know that there are other people who understand the machinations of the multinational corporations and the threat they pose.

[BeHereNow]

31. It's called global fascism, and yes, many of us get it.

Apparently not enough though.
"Hooray, the knights in shining armor will be here any day now."

Not.

BHN

[zehnkatzen]

36. I hate to be such a pessimist...

but you might be right about this one.

[antigop]

44. Absolutely, it's global fascism.

And how many people aren't even looking at trade policy positions of the presidential candidates?

You are right. Not enough people get it.

[greyghost]

82. That's the main reason they are afraid of the...

populist fascists in South America.

[broadcaster]

98. I feel the same way you do..

The Democratic party supporters are just marching in lockstep like that MacIntosh 1984 add,
and if you try to speak about issues like corporate power, Hillary's ties to it, and the
overall marginalization that voters are seeing, the response is "you're a tin foil hat," or
"you're just against a woman being president," etc etc.

I guess if democracy and an authentic country that follows the Constitution mean so little
to Democrats as well as voters, then we will end up with more of what we see today.

Also, have you noticed that people who mention the Constitution seem to be called kooks?

At this point, I'd say voters/citizens who consider themselves progressives and democrats
are truly on their own---the party is going a different direction.

[antigop]

101. Welcome to DU, broadcaster n/t

[windbreeze]

109. yes, refreshing, isn't it....???

to think there are those who actually get it...let's not underestimate the very powerful international bankers, either.....there is only one way, the person in the WH can have the arrogance he has....and that's IF tptb(outside the gov't) are controlling everything..and they do NOT work for us...the oath their lackeys take to uphold our Constitution...well, * expressed it best, when he called it "that goddamned piece of paper"..we should have caught on, right then...

So what have we been paying attention to for the last 6 1/2 years??? All that arrogance.....Meantime our ports, highways, forests, farms, and important structures are quietly being sold right out from under us, to foreign interests...and to foreign control...

Check out the cfr...see which candidates from both parties are members...I wonder...do they cooperate and work together to reach their goals and agendas...or do they work against each other, as they would like us to believe they do...as they appear to do in public...or in Congress??? IF the members truly oppose each other, then why would there be such an organization?...everyone knows a house divided against itself will not stand....

We are in deep, deep trouble...and millions more need to open their eyes to see and understand, what is/has been going on, right under our noses...we've been sidetracked by all the bullshit and that was the plan all along..
windbreeze

[caligirl]

32. reverse the act that gave corporations an equal say as the individual voters have.

[zehnkatzen]

37. That would be a start.

Corporations can do what they do because it's in the law that they can.

It all could be deflected, at least a little, if the law quit treating corporations as bloodless people.

It's not likely, but we can hope.

[WinkyDink]

41. And the WTO would slap that down post-haste.

[cascadiance]

103. We should pull out of NAFTA, CAFTA, and GATT which would take WTO away!

We should have those treaties all renegotiated if we "redo" them at all, so that they measure "fair trade" rather than just "free trade" before we open up trade with others, and the WTO would no longer serve as a "proxy veto" over different national governments' sovereignty. If we do have such an organization, it needs to serve more than the interests of multi-national corporations and different country elites behind closed doors like it does now. It needs to have a means to also represent labor unions, environmental organizations and other global organizations interests as well in a more democratic and transparent fashion. Otherwise it really shouldn't be there at all.

[truedelphi]

46. Hear Hear. Why should corporations have the power of an individual

It makes no sense at all yet allows the corporatists their power (Oops - maybe that is wherein the logic for it stems)

[Norrin Radd]

34. k+r

[Jim Warren]

42. the clouds of another war for liberty are on the horizon.

and it will be a shitstorm.

By design or simply default, the results are the same.......third world status for American working class.

The national treasury has been plundered and the country is in debt up to our eyeballs and who pays for it? The working people. Gonna get ugly soon. Not that it will do much good but for lack of a better immediate idea, I'm stocking up on ammo.

[maxkeiser]

43. Al Jazeera English 'gets it.'

here's the last bit of the transcript of the film i made for AJE;
the entire transcript is here;
http://www.karmabanqueradio.com/temp/torturechic.html
video avail. on youtube; 'extraordinary antics'


MAX KEISER
The Romans used to throw the Christians to the lions, today, America throws the Muslims and the Mexicans to the savages at Fox News.

JOHN SIFTON
When governments choose the law to apply and choose the legal paradigm to apply, that's what lawyers sometimes call 'forum shopping.' You're basically deciding the legal paradigm you want to fit . . . that best suits you. And, ah, in this context, they're clearly bending the semantics, bending the terminology, bending the law to get the result they want the best. What do they want? They want incommunicado detention without legal review.

STEPHEN GREY
The problem is about these kind of practices is they store up problems for the future. And, actually, you know, being associated with a policy that props up dictators in the Middle East works very closely with the secret police, you know the ones that are fighting democracy, fighting human rights, fighting freedom of expression. These same secret police. You know, it puts you on the wrong side and, actually, is a way of, potentially, losing the war.

JOHN SIFTON
Accountability really needs to come home. It's an embarrassment to the United States that accountability is taking place in Italy and not in Washington. You know, why the US Congress can't investigate these crimes and abuses is beyond us.

MAX KEISER (Milan courthouse)
Extraordinary rendition. Sounds like America's swansong. America's become bloated, decadent, arrogant. Why do they hate us? We're numskulls. Spending half a million dollars a pop for street justice. No due process. No wonder America's image abroad stinks. Half a million dollars. You know, I'm a US taxpayer, I've done all the calculations myself. The question I have is where's my money CIA? If I have to come to Langley to get it. Where's my money in all this? You stole my money. (to Italian policeman) Buona sera.

[broadcaster]

99. I hope AJE does more of this ...

As a side note, when I tell people that Al Jazeera Arabic is staffed from the old BBC Arabic Television channel, they are surprised. (The BBC shut down their Arabic channel, but now, are planning to start a new Arabic service once again, and guess who they hired? The news man who set up Al Jazeera.)

Thus, this network has good solid staffing from BBC and is excellent enough that BBC hires the top guy to get BBC into an Arabic service once again.

(as opposed to using Fox News staff and management to start BBC Arabic).


thanks for your work.

[The_Commonist]

45. Stop Bitching and Start a Revolution!!!

It's easy for anonymous individuals to discuss what's wrong in the world on an internet discussion forum. It's much more difficult to actually do something about it all. Right? I've been discussing what's wrong in the world on internet discussion forums for years now, and very seldom have I come across anything resembling a plan to actually try to solve those problems. It's really quite distressing! Lots of people have lots of ideas about what is wrong, but very few people have ideas for how to fix things. It's getting pretty boring.

I have a plan to try to solve some of the problems in the world. It may not be a good plan, or a viable plan, it may not be something anyone is actually interested in, but it's a plan none-the-less.

I came up with this plan, along with a number of friends, because I am tired of bitching. I'm tired of being angry at the dumb people who are ruining everything for everybody, and I'm tired of the supposed "smart people" who aren't doing a damned thing to fix it. Or worse.

I call my plan Commonizm and its name is meant to be a slap in the face of the powers that be. It's a simple thing, really. It starts with the notion that the Corporate agenda is to destroy the functions of government and privatize everything on the planet. Everything that you and I and she and he bitch about can be traced back to this either directly or indirectly. The big corporations want to own everything on the planet, and charge us usage fees. Every breath you take is worth something, and they want to charge you for it. They want a nickel every time you take a piss, and a dime every time you are thirsty.

Commonizm is the idea that every human deserves a stake in The Commons, and the only way we are going to have that stake is to own it. You and I and she and he need to STOP GIVING MONEY IN THE FORM OF PROFITS TO THE BIG CORPORATIONS and use that money to buy as much of The Commons as we can, to keep it from corporate control. We cannot wait for government to do this for us, as government is being destroyed to make way for corporate control of The Commons.

Do you really want their reign to come to an end? Then YOU HAVE TO DO IT! Yeah, it's a big project, but it's worth it. Where do you, as an individual on an internet discussion forum, begin? STOP USING YOUR CREDIT CARDS AND STOP PAYING INTEREST! Study the monetary system just a little bit some time, and you will discover that interest payments are how wealth is created. Much of that wealth goes straight to the top. They've scammed us into gleefully participating in a system where we borrow their money from them and use it to buy a lot of crap that we don't need, and then we pay them back the money with interest. That's how the few at the top are getting obscenely wealthy while the rest of us struggle. Stop paying them interest. That's step one. Stop buying a bunch of cheap plastic crap that you don't need! That's step one and a half.

Step two is coming. Step two is to set up non-profits to start buying The Commons to hold in trust for those who contribute, and for society at large. Step three is to Privatize Socialism.

This is how we end their reign of terror.

Are you interested in participating? Would you like to be a part of the revolution? Or do you just want to keep bitching about things? Come on and join us, you'll find that it's much more satisfying than bitching...


(p.s. - I would like to thank the fine people at the Zendik Farm Arts Community for the notion of "Stop Bitching, Start a Revolution." You can buy Stop Bitching tees shirts and bumper stickers from them online at www.zendik.org but just be sure to pay off your credit card before the interest kicks in!)

[Locrian]

49. list of things to do

From Thom Hartmann's New Book Screwed:
The Undeclared War Against the Middle Class

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=11195


-- let the public again have the right to own the military (without the high-priced private contractors), prisons, and the electoral system.

-- keep private for-profit companies out of education and have government run it free without phony programs that don't work like No Child Left Behind.

-- demand a national single-payer health care system for everyone based on how Medicare is run.

-- demand private companies keep their hand off Social Security and keep it as a government-run retirement program and safety net for the disabled.

-- demand a progressive tax system reinstating a meaningful 35% rate on corporations and a 70% rate on the richest 5% of Americans. Use the extra revenue received to repay the Social Security system and fund an economic investment program.

-- demand a living wage and the right of labor to organize again unhindered by laws or business-friendly government policies restricting its ability to be treated fairly.

-- demand a national energy program that "puts people and the planet - not Big Oil - first."

-- Take back the Democrat party - the party is in crisis having bought on to the agenda of the far-right Republicans. Hartmann says the solution is for progressives to join together to take back the Democrat party just like the cons took control of the Republican party with the election of Ronald Reagan.

-- A third party is not the answer because of our corrupted "winner take all" system under which whoever gets the most votes "gets all of the pie." We're structured this way because it's written into our Constitution which was a huge mistake by the Founders.

-- Republicans also need to re-capture their party from the cons who stole it from the moderates. Today the party is run by the "Ayn Rand utopians, Pat Robertson fundamentalists, and the largest and dirtiest of America's corporate elite." They rejected the values of Lincoln, Theodore Roosevelt and Eisenhower, exploited working people and looted the nation's treasury for their own self-interest leaving it for those who follow them to clean up the mess it could take a whole generation to recover from or longer.

-- Change happens, sometimes slowly, and people need to band together to work actively for it which means more than "just showing up for a peace (or other kind of) rally."

-- Other activist tools include the most fundamental one of all - communication. Hartmann explains without two simple forms of it, the American Revolution wouldn't have been possible. There were the two commonly used ones then - letters to editors of newspapers who published them and pamphlets like the kind Tom Paine wrote. Today the dominant media are corrupted by their corporate control that suppresses real information in favor of only what's friendly to the state and the corporate giants. Fortunately though, alternatives exist and must be used effectively.

-- Don't ignore the obvious influence we can have by communicating with our elected leaders. They pay attention, and it guides their policy-making.

-- Joining a union or getting active in the union movement is crucially important to rebuilding the nation's middle class. It's essential unions be re-empowered through favorable legislation, and voters need to petition their legislators to work for this.

[maxkeiser]

60. i'm with you on this... Let's look at copyright for a minute...

basically, your thesis, as i understand it, is that by expanding the public domain we shrink the private or corporate domain... One way to do this would be to have a basic understanding that all ideas and creativity comes originally from our collective imagination; our collective unconscious; our collective creative domain... and that the purpose of COPYRIGHT LAW is to give an artist (an interpreter of the collective unconscious) LIMITED monopoly rights to exploit their art; (in all cases, a variation or derivation of previous work - as is the universal truth pertaining to all art).

Today, by corporate decree and complicity of regulators, copyright has effectively become perpetual copyright with the limited copyright monopoly right being extended to lifetime plus 90 years...

To expand the common, public domain, we should roll back copyright law back to its original 28 years (as stipulated by the Constitution)

Let these works of art and ideas re-enter and expand the public domain - to give people back the ideas, words and images that they, over the eons, have created together as part of what is called 'culture.'

If this cannot be accomplished through legal means. We should all consume only public domain art; books, images, movies, music, and software... Do not pay a penny for corporate culture; starve the beast.

[femrap]

51. When will we find a courageous

person to match the leadership of FDR who said to the corporations: "I welcome your hatred."

These corporations are truly the root of our problems.

[Vilis Veritas]

53. And what controls the vast propaganda machine?

Corporations.

TV is owned...the masses get their daily dose of kool-aid and happily believe whatever the corpora-fascist want. The propaganda runs deep and it runs often.

The masses are dulled to the truth and instead filled with the un-reality of TV.

Which pill will you take? The red or the blue? And I do not mean to speak of party affiliations...an interesting take on the metaphor can be found here...http://www.arrod.co.uk/essays/matrix.php

Peace

[Voltaire99]

54. Nader told you all this YEARS ago.

But the dirty corporate money is still poring into the Dem front-runners campaigns.

Plus ça change...

[stevietheman]

55. I think it would be beneficial to our cause to pinpoint....

_which_ corporations are the problem, and not lump them all into one basket. Corporations are not bad as a lot, as companies are not bad as a lot. Commerce is not evil. Humankind needs commerce, and we need the beneficial economies of scale that corporations in many areas are able to deliver, just as we need small businesses and entrepreneurs to give the economy continuous vigor. We need commerce to LIVE.

I think it will be hard for many of our fellow Americans to take those of us on the left seriously if we cannot declare what makes _some_ corporations bad, and simultaneously point to corporations that on balance are beneficial to humankind. We need to demarcate what practices are progressive and what are not. We need to clearly say that there's nothing inherently wrong with profit as long as no human being is injured or worse in the process of acquiring that profit.

We need to find the courage to be more pragmatic with relation to the business world, while encouraging progressive practices. We need to fight from within, rather than throwing rocks from the outside, all of which will merely shatter against a titanium wall.

And I say all the above as a very liberal liberal.

[Blue_Tires]

57. ttt

[redqueen]

59. VOTE FOR KUCINICH IN THE PRIMARIES!

thank you :)

[Indenturedebtor]

64. Kucinich is the only candidate

That truly speaks from his heart and mind. I'm sorry but it's true. It's unfortunate that our handlers would never let him get elected.

Without public only campaign finance, our elections and our government will always be nothing more than a front for the true decision makers: the corporations.

I believe that by reinstituting the fairness doctrine, and removing all private funding for elections we could get people of real principle in our government. Until then, the Washington herd will continue to be culled of all virtue.

Armed revolutions will never work again in America. For one thing the propaganda would come down so hard on you your fellow citizens would shoot you in the back... but if they didn't the government would squash you like a bug.

The only way to win I'm afraid is to stop fueling the system with our interest payments as has been suggested. But it's very difficult to get to that point... they have it set up so you make just enough to where if you want to get by or if something unexpected happens (like a speeding ticket) you have to take on more debt.

For myself, I've recently decided to get an MBA. I would like to work from a position of influence to change some of the policies that have destroyed the middle class. I would someday like to head a major corporation, and push for a balanced life for my workers and a living wage. There are some companies in America with a heart. Unfortunately most of the the people in murica who go into business/politics are reptilian.

Why don't more people like us work from within the system to change it? Flailing around at the edges doesn't seem to be working very well :(

We need more people with money and influence to steer the system and hand it back to the citizens.

[redqueen]

69. FEAR

That's why.

How many times have you read "Kucinich can't win"?

People don't even want to TRY anymore, and it's sickening.

[rudeboy666]

61. Workers of the World UNITE!

[cascadiance]

65. Public Campaign financing priority 1 in 2009!

We need to make sure that whomever we elect understands that wish of the people (even if some of them feel they have to pay more attention to their corporate donors now)!

[redqueen]

75. WHO among our Dem leaders would do it? n/t

[smirkymonkey]

67. K&R

This says it all.

I am past the point where I see politicians as anything more than corporate pawns. Even if they start out w/ good intentions, sooner or later the corporate masters will own them wholesale.

[mdmc]

68. go back to Russia

:)
I agree that the corporations have destroyed our country. Peace and low stress to you and yours.

[Jim Warren]

76. Heh

I remember a New Yorker cartoon some years where one besotted patron in a bar is telling another in the caption, "If you don't like one party government, move to Russia".

[mdmc]

83. lol

:toast:

[Maq]

72. Private Military Corporations are the military wing

of the Republican party. Or as I have called it "The MILITARY ARM(y) of the Republican Party.

I concur with Cyrano that "CORPORATISM" has and is solidifying their position as a global force.
et us expand this thread and pass the ideas along the web chain.

[Indenturedebtor]

74. DU This "Poll"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19357599/

Asks what the issue of the day is. We should constantly DU these opportunities to call for campaign finance reform. It's the first and most important step to creating a democracy in America.

[Maq]

78. Done, thanks for the link

.

[LWolf]

77. The corporate empire is bipartisan.

It doesn't matter what party is in the majority, as long as the corporate strings are firmly attached.

If Democratic voters want to cut the corporate strings, they need to support and elect candidates with no strings attached.

Otherwise, all the partisan posturing is nothing more than a tale told by idiots, full of sound and fury signifiying absolutely nothing.

[arikara]

89. And a bit of proof to your statement...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3382576

[LWolf]

91. Yes.

Frankly, I don't think any of the "top tier" have clean hands.

[Gregorian]

81. We gave them that power.

And we continue giving it every time we ask them to do something for us.

Cars, fertilizers. Everything.

But it's not inherently bad. It's how the world works. The guy down the street makes the shoes, like my grandfather did. I still have his 100 year old hammer.

But two things have happened. One is that we've let the corporations run wild, thanks to our laziness and thanks to a media that is covering for the corporations. The other is we've found a way to sustain far more than we could ordinarily sustain, through the use of a dense medium of power. Petroleum. Not to mention that we've paved over the most fertile land in the country. But I've digressed from the main point.

We asked and we allowed. But like Noam Chomsky says, we don't know. Once again, the media has played a role in giving them the free pass. We are not informed of what they are doing in our names.

We the people are going to have to take responsibility. Global warming is telling us that. But nobody is going to change. I guarantee that. And we have placed ourselves in a corner. It's us at least as much as them.

[Az]

88. Forget NeoFascism. We shot right past that into NeoFeudalism

The CEOs are the new Lords and Ladies.

[sui generis]

93. ugly truth rant

I have learned in my colorful life that self-sacrifice is damn noble but not so good for the kids. And if anyone remembers from years gone by, I am a type A+++ sorta guy, so I work the ugly corporate masters for every penny I get out of them with greatest, and even malicious delight.

I still despise them without reservation, and at an exec level working in one of the most predatory industries and corporate disciplines out there I can do that openly and have my peers just chuckle nervously.

My point being though that most of the people on the corporate side of the wall want to believe just like all the rest of us bleeding hearts that they are good people. There is one difference though, and one that underscores the hallmark of the republican mentality: corporate people who profit on misfortune sleep at night because they honestly, truly believe that their hearts aren't black and shriveled they way we do (irony?), that if misfortune occurs to someone they did something to deserve it. In Finance. In credit. In health. In law. In life. And I would add, in anything we can dream of. What do most of us free thinkers think of smokers? Of drug addicts? How then are we different from corporate credit analysts? Global investment analysts? Oh, the umbrage. Truth about me; when I deliver my bill, most corporate finance people play outraged victim themselves. Not a big stretch to get them to accept that they deserve it, and then they pay it without blinking. I prey on vampires; something to do.

They (the corporate dudes) chuckle quietly that someone has convinced themselves they are doing social good by living on a smaller ecological footprint; how then do real estate moguls convince people to live in smaller and smaller spaces for more and more money? To use poorly packaged crap that's cheaper to package, call it recyclable and do nothing cost effective or actually net- beneficial to actually recycle it? Do we actually follow through with any of our borrowed good intentions, and how many of us merely go through the motions?

You, corporate victim, are not in the grip of anything. You are a voluntary demographic number, sliced and diced and hooked up to a consumer life cycle statistic and electronic tit-and-ball squeezer, being herded through the proverbial livestock gates to your waiting bolt hammer, skinning and gutting at your appointed time. God forbid you dare live longer than you are supposed to, or "cost society" anything, and I have heard plenty of people here on DU parrot crap that junior pharma ad men dream up, hear with greatest dismay that even the smartest here (theoretically) can be made to believe they are "good" in their noble and sacrificial choices while everyone else is slightly inferior.

Not really bitter - if it sounds like it. Just have eyes opened wider than humanly possible in the past year. Story at eleven.

So we've named the problem from a couple of perspectives: what is the solution? If you fail to go to jury duty, you should go to jail? Isnt' that attitude are reflection of corporate group-think training? I've heard that somewhere here and wondered at what liberal really means, if anything? I want it to mean something. A corporate entity is a collection of individuals; a gestalt with a life of its own that inherently believes it has more rights than any individual. If you fail to support your corporation the government should still say it's all right to keep your FICO formula secret? That you shouldn't be able to sue your HMO? That a junior accountant at a health insurer or even your employer can make a health decision about you by denying a course of treatment, by denying medicine or surgery that could save your life? That it's perfectly acceptable to consider a hundred different reasons for hiring or firing you that have NOTHING to do with your abilities or experience? That if you are forced to take a piss test for a job interview you are protected by HIPAA, yet your signature on any job application essentially violates your personal access to HIPAA for the remainder of your life? Gives your DNA away to anyone willing to buy a databaes of DNA? That you can't sue the government for spying on you unless you can 1. prove you've been spied on, and 2. prove that you were harmed by it, and 3. prove that the ISP / bookstore / neighbor / maid who helped them were actually breaking the law when they did it? We are all fuzzy little sheep, made sheep not by corporations, but by our government. I have never been a victim of any of these things but I don't believe for one second that any of these people "deserve it" or that I might be superior even if I don't.

The solution is this: The ocean will always have sharks in it. Corporations will always exist to make money for some at the cost of financial loss to others. Your GOVERNMENT has to regulate it, not by regulating corporations so much as by recognizing that individual living human entitities have a GREATER right to exist and be happy than corporate, legal and some social entities do. To find in favor of individuals, damn nearly always. To eliminate "corporate loopholes" ruthlessly. When two critters are in the sea, all other things being equal, if one of them is human, root for the human, not the *corporate* shark.

We all need to re-assess and relearn from the ground up. I still am.

[Name removed]

94. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[stillcool]

95. It took me a long time...

to give up the ghosts, and finally come to the understanding that the federal government is by, for, and of the corporations. The difficulty I have with fine-tuning my perception is the multitude of individual parts that make up the whole. It seems that unintended consequences are what shapes policy and forces different interests to make their moves. I remember reading somewhere, that the difference between today's world and that of yesteryear, is that the hierarchy from village, town, city, state, nation, and world has been obliterated. Main Street has been replaced with the likes of corporations doing business on a global scale. Town, City and State governments all have to play nice with the multi-national corporations within their jurisdictions as they are the life-blood of every metropolis. And, with the use of foundations, holding companies, and the morphing of corporations it's impossible to really know who owns what, and where it's interests lie. The boards of directors for the major players are all made up of a smattering of former defense, government, and banking higher-ups...and even former executives from a competing corporation within the same industry. It seems the dye was cast for today's reality in another lifetime, and what I see is also the manifestation of a long line of actions taken in the wake of unintended consequences.

[Asgaya Dihi]

100. Buckley v. Valeo, or money equals speech

My posts never seem to get the recommended lists when I start threads so I'll toss this out there and someone else can figure out how to present it if they want, I think it deserves more attention.

You won't beat the corps, campaign finance, or any number of other problems until you deal with this issue. This is WHY reform is so hard and sometimes it's questionable if it's Constitutional.

The history of Corporate Personhood goes back to shortly after the Civil War and grew slowly out of the 14th Amendment and the cry of corporate lawyers that they were people too, that's another issue though related and it's the one this grew out of so we should be aware for background, but we'll leave it there for now. You can read about it here though. http://reclaimdemocracy.org/personhood

From shortly after the Civil War until the 1970's the idea slowly took hold but we still had a fighting chance. What killed Democracy in the end was Buckley v. Valeo, or money equals speech. In 1976 the Supreme Court ruled that money was now equivalent to speech and THAT is when things really went to shit. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckley_v._Valeo

That is why we can't restrict campaign advertising, donations, PAC contributions and any number of other things. If speech was speech then the strongest argument might win, the facts might win, the difference between right and wrong might have a chance to be discussed. If money equals speech though then he who has the most shouts the loudest and is heard the most. And we don't even have the right to question it anymore, the Supreme Court decided it.

We've got a lot of little issues to deal with in this country, but if we want to kill several problems with one blow, this is where. When money no longer equals speech we'll have the right to reduce this to a battle of ideas rather than of finances. Until then, they own the process.

[RoccoR5955]

102. Here, Here!!

Well put. I agree totally. We must overthrow the corporatocracy at all costs. A national strike would be a start.

If we do not rein in these corporatists, we will once again become a fiefdom, and the corporations will be the Lords of the Mansions.

[mdmc]

115. kick

cause I can!