It's not 130 degrees in Baghdad... why can't the WH Press

[featherman]

correct even the most obvious lies, errors, and/or exaggerations by Tony Snowjob (re: apologia for Iraq government vacations)? Idiots? Unprepared? Fools? Cowards? Ignorant? All of the above?

The man gives you a golden opportunity to say "Tony, it isn't 130 degrees in Baghdad. Why are you saying it is?" Instead, everybody just agrees "Hmmm...must be true".

http://www.wunderground.com/global/stations/40650.html

[Kagemusha]

1. It can get really hot there during the day. The local time quoted there is, 9am

There's no reason to play with Snow's lame propaganda by making an argument that at any particular moment in time, it is not 130F in Bagdhad, therefore, Snow is a liar.

[Captain Angry]

2. Actually, it is.

Certainly not in the middle of the night, but they see that temperature WAY too often.

My brother is over there right now, and is wearing the full armor compliment. So it's even hotter.

Look at the link you posted. It will be 111 soon there. That's not very far from 130. I think it hit 142 a couple of years ago during my brother's last deployment.

[Newsjock]

3. 111 vs. 130

Sorry, but there is a big difference. Temperatures in the 110s are now fairly common in the U.S. Southwest (such as Phoenix), but 130 is virtually unheard-of. When it hit the lower 120s recently in places such as Bullhead City, Ariz., and Baker, Calif., that was a big deal.

And it's generally regarded that the hottest temperature ever recorded anywhere was 134F in Death Valley, in 1913. (Edit: Some other sources say 136F in Libya in 1922.)

But looking at the five-day forecast for Baghdad, I see nothing worse than the lower 110s -- or roughly what Phoenix is like about right now. (Of course, Phoenix has electricity, and the locals don't have to walk around in body armor, so yes, appreciate the troops' efforts and all, no disrespect intended, etc.)

[cherokeeprogressive]

11. I've been to both places: Bullhead City AND Baker, CA

Baker boasts what is called (by the good people of Baker anyway) the "Tallest Thermometer on Earth". Baker is a city halfway between L.A. and Las Vegas. It is slightly off the interstate, but the thermometer is clearly visible. I've travelled the road literally HUNDREDS of times. It's NOTHING to see the temp above 120 on any day between early June and mid-September. It's also nothing to see the temp as high as 110 AT NIGHT during the same timeframe. I'd say my experience stretches back to 1977, when I turned 16 and was given a car.

Bullhead City is on the Colorado River. I grew up a water skiier. I can think of DOZENS of times when it was too hot to go out on the water. We sat in our lawnchairs, IN WATER up to our necks, with an icechest wedged into the middle of an old car innertube. I've seen unopened beers placed on the asphalt (on purpose) literally lose their top due to the heat.

I've seen the temperature at Glamis, CA, reach 115 IN THE SHADE, and I haven't been to Glamis since I was 15, 31 years ago.

I've been working on base at NAS Fallon, NV, when the temp before sunrise was in the 30's, and by noon it was 100.

Hot Ain't New. It might have moved, even spread; but It Ain't New.

[Adsos Letter]

28. Ahhh...Needles, California...where you are required to carry extra water in your car. n/t

[cherokeeprogressive]

35. Ha. When I was a kid, pops had a black car with NO a/c. eom

[Captain Angry]

23. I realize that there is a difference...

My point was just that of all the moronic stuff to spew out of Tony Snow's mouth, 130 degrees isn't the one to jump on. That's a real temperature, it happens, and it happens there.

The original poster made it sound like Tony Snow said that there were pools of molten lead and temperatures in the low 1000's. 130 is possible. The first week of my brother's deployment, they put him in a tent full of ice and water. And said "Lay down here, and just learn what this is like. Go outside once in a while, come back in, and cool off. Don't forget to always drink your water."

[Dr.Phool]

4. Is that Farenheit or Celcius.

[ThoughtCriminal]

19. First one, then the other,

(A line from Futurama regarding daytime temperatures on the Moon)

[EFerrari]

5. If the entire force of the American government were trying to rip me off

I'd find a way to go away for a month, too, no matter wtf the weather.

[featherman]

6. No reason for DUer's to play fast and loose with measureable facts

as well. All this is easily Googled. It's generally agreed that the highest scientifically measured temperature on Earth was either 134 in Death Valley in 1913 or 136 in Libya in 1922.

High temperatures in the 110-115 and above range are as common in Iraq as they are in Phoenix AZ in the summer but when you start talking about 130+ you are entering really freaky temp conditions.

[Bobbieo]

7. It got to 124 degrees F ,in the shade, in my backyard in Yuma

in August of 1981 and boy that is HOT!!!!! Nothing like that since but who knows with Global Warming.

[Skittles]

8. read the latest post by Major Patrick Burns (yup) on anysoldier.com

the date is July 10 and the picture shows him holding a big thermometer clearly indicating 138 degrees along with this post:

No, your eyes are not deceiving you. That is 138 degrees at approximately 3:30 in the afternoon on the 10th of July. Now I don't care where you grew up, but unless it was in the Western Sahara 138 is Dad-blasting, mother-freaking HOT! On the bright side though, it did cool down to about 100 by around 11:00 that evening. We're watching our people closely in this stuff. I would much rather be careful than lose someone to a heat injury.

[peacebaby3]

9. When my husband was there, it got up to around 140-41 a couple of days

during the hottest part of the year. The avg. was between 125-130 a lot of the time depending on where you were in Iraq so he's not off by much on the avg. I would send my husband a magazine or two to read on his down time, but he could never finish them because the glue that held the pages together would melt before he could read through it.

[TahitiNut]

10. July and August temperatures in Baghdad are virtually identical

The record high in July and August was 49ºC (120.2 ºF), while the average high is 43ºC (109.4 ºF).

http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/world/city_guides/results.shtml?tt=TT002400

Tony Snow is a liar.

[Bobbieo]

12. Snow may not be a liar if those temps were taken in the sun.BUT

that is not an accurate reading. So - he's fudging!!!!

[TahitiNut]

15. He's a liar ... for two reasons.

(1) Claiming temperatureS of 10 degrees higher than the record high is overtly dishonest, and
(2) Using it as a reason for an August evacuation of politicians, when JULY's temperatures are identical is sheer confabulation.

When one also considers the greater availabilty of air conditioning in the Green Zone and the fact that the military suffers under such conditions while wearing 40-50 pounds of equipment (and troops in the field don't get to duck in to air conditioned comfort) he's being disgracefully deceitful.

[featherman]

13. Not sure when anecdotal evidence began replacing measureable scientific

data as "proof" of something or other in the public mind. Maybe under Ronald Reagan. I'll try to keep this simple.

Believe it or not there are people who study these things for a living. They are called "meteorologists". The all time world record temperatures are as stated above...scientifically measured.

What somebody's backyard thermometer measured when they left it out in the sun or out in Aunt Tillie's tin storage shed on an August afternoon in Phoenix is not what is called "scientific measurement".

Today's forecast high for Baghdad is 102 degrees F.

[peacebaby3]

17. Sorry, but I will go with what my husband said because he was actually

there and living in the temps. He was not always in Baghdad and spent part of his time further south in Iraq, but we discussed the temps while he was there in the summer of 2003 and it was consistently 120-130 during the hottest part of the year with a couple of days reaching 140-41.

I'll get my proof from someone who was actually there and not a meteorologist who probably wasn't, but feel free to continue to call my husband and the other person who posted on this board that said their family member is there now liars.

[qanda]

22. I'm not discounting what your husband told you

But perhaps he was reading from a thermometer sitting in the sun, because they don't have those temperatures recorded anywhere. A few people in this thread have already referenced the records.

[peacebaby3]

27. Well, there must have been several of them in several different places,

over several months since we talked about the temps during the summer he was there and not always in the same place. He was in a unit attached to the 3rd ID so they were in many different locations at many different times since they were on the move often transporting ammunition. They started out having Camp Arifjan in Kuwait as a home (probably even worse because of the humidity since it was near the water), but then moved into southern Iraq to Camp Cedar as a home base, but would take trips lasting several days to different places including Baghdad.

Another person who's brother is there right now confirms this in another post. Is he wrong also or could it be that the meteorologist that are keeping up with this info are not actually there? Are they the same folks that tell me it's going to be a nice, sunny day and then later I'm stuck in a rainstorm with no umbrella? I hate it when that happens!

It's up to you to decide what you want to believe and Tony Snow shouldn't have used the temp as an explanation for the Iraqi government to take a vacation and I'd like to slap the shit out of him, but I don't find the general temp he quoted to be ridiculous. It's ridiculous that he would use that as an excuse.

Peace.

[eridani]

32. Probably some thermometers are in "hot spots"

Those wouldn't be used for official records.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

42. Peacebaby, the hottest day ever recorded on earth...

Was 136 degrees F, in Libya, in 1922.

The average Baghdad high is 110. The all time record high for Baghdad is 122.

[peacebaby3]

43. Oh ok, then my husband and all of the people we know that have lived in the

country for a year or more and the other DUer who has a brother in Iraq right now are all liars. When I got up yesterday, I made plans to come on this board and lie to people about the temperature in Iraq in the summer of 2003 just for fun. Please note post #40 as well. I guess they planned to lie about the temps just to cause some "controversy" on DU.

I travel a lot for work and I check avg. temps & avg. rainfall from weather sites to get the info before I travel to an unfamiliar place in order to prepare. I always add (if summer) or subtract (if winter) 10 or so degrees because over time I've learned they are always wrong based on the reality of being there on the ground.

[ProfessorGAC]

46. Really Scientific

Just add 10 degrees. Change all the textbooks. Call it the Peacebaby Principle.
The Professor

[peacebaby3]

47. It's called reality, You should try it some time. n/t

[ProfessorGAC]

48. It's Called Science. You Should Look It Up Sometime (eom)

.

[peacebaby3]

51. Sure, next time the meterologist tells me it's not going to rain, if it starts, I'll

just stand out in it and tell myself it's all my imagination because the meteorologist said it wasn't going to rain today and he or she is always correct.

Now, is there some other issue we can have stupid outrage over today? It seems to be becoming quite trendy on DU. Apparently because I disagree with the possible temperture in Iraq based on information from people there, I have discounted all science. :rofl:

[karlrschneider]

56. Hey, what a concept. I'll just add a few bucks to my actual bank balance and.

Call it reality.
:eyes:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

57. Well, they're wrong.

They could be mistaken, they could be exagerrating for dramatic effect, or yeah... they could be liars.

I'll take NOAA over anecdotal evidence, thanks.

[ProfessorGAC]

44. Now, Even On DU, Science Is Being Disregarded

Depressing, ain't it? Did this become a freeper, dinosaurs didn't exist, site over the weekend?
The Professor

[TahitiNut]

52. You mean I can't claim a temperature of 140ºF in Michigan ...

... just because that's how hot it is in my car, parked on an asphalt road in the sunlight with the windows closed?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[qanda]

59. Sure you can!

It was 124 degrees here in Maryland last week.

[napi21]

14. I have a question for anyone who has experienced the heat in Iraq.

HOW can any human being survive in temps THAT HOT, wearing full gear, and still doing a job?

I really mean this as a serious question. Every time I see the clips on CNN I ask that question. I don't know anyone who has been on the ground over there! My son was in the Nave and told me how HOT it was on the deck of the Nimitz in the PG, but THAT'S different! The glare of the sun off the sand has to make it even hotter!

I didn't think a human could survive in conditions like that!

[TahitiNut]

16. The daily low temperatures average around 75ºF

Drink LOTS of water. Keep electrolytes in balance. Don't exert yourself at the high times.

The relative humidity in Baghdad is fairly low - around 20-30% - so soaking clothing with water acts like a "swamp cooler."

One 4th of July afternoon in the Tonto National Forest outside Phoenix, when the temperatures were around 115ºF, I wore a sweatshirt and was VERY comfortable. Why? I soaked it with water and it cooled me for about 45-60 minutes. Heavenly.

Believe me, Viet Nam was worse ... with temperatures usually in the high 90s but with high humidity, too. Even so, we played vollyball in a bagged sand court for recreation. After several months, I lost most of my body fat. It makes a difference.

[peacebaby3]

21. The hubby drank tons of water. He thinks it may have contributed to

him having 6 kidney stones during the 14 months he was there. Not the heat, but the different type of water they often had to drink. He has no proof of that and it is striclty his theory because nobody could ever give him any other reason, but he kept having one after another. One was bad enough that they actually hospitalized him down in Kuwait for a few days, but most of the time they just gave him muscle relaxers and pain pills until he could pass it. Keep in mind that back during this time, they were still living in big tents in the middle of the desert. Most of the current facilites were not like they are today.

He arrived over there a couple of weeks before everything started (I can't stand to use the term "shock and awe." It disgusts me.)so for the first few weeks they had to wear full chemical suits because they weren't sure if they would be hit with any kind of bio weapon. Thank goodness it was in late March, early April so it wasn't the hottest months because I believe it might have killed some people that hadn't had time to acclimate to the heat, particularly in a chemical suit and mask. They even had to sleep with them on.

Everyone was really miserable back then. They now have some better facilities in some places, especially the green zone.

[cui bono]

18. I lived in Bahrain for a year a long time ago when I was 12

Now all I had to do outside was play, but I don't remember ever staying inside because it was too hot. Of course there were other things to do where there was a/c but I don't remember the heat being that much of an issue. I do remember hearing the guys that worked on the oil rigs had to take salt tablets because they would sweat so much.

Also since Bahrain is such a small country, a small island, I'm sure it's much cooler than Iraq. So nevermind... ;)

And no, I'm not nor was my father affiliated with any oil companies.

[SoCalDem]

24. I spent 8 years in Panama..NO a/c.. ricght smack in the jungle

9 degrees off the equator..

We managed just fine :) and the humidity was always above 75%..

During "dry season" it only rained twice a day :)

[peacebaby3]

30. My husband spent two long periods down in Panama with the Army back in the late

90s before the US turned the canal back over in 2000. He loved it! He's always said he wouldn't mind living there, but he said the traffic can be insane and the painted buses will literally run you off the rode in some places. He loved fishing for peacock bass (I think that was what they were called.)We are thinking of taking a trip there soon. I've never been to Panama and have always wanted to go.

[SoCalDem]

31. We LOVED the Cheevas.. As kids we would climb trees and lob mangos & avocados at the buses.

One day one of the drivers caught one of the mangos and threw it back at us.. Hit Melanie on the leg and she darned near fell out of the tree :rofl:.. shocked the hell out of us !

Was your husband at Ft. Clayton? We were at Albrook..but we roamed all over that country..

[peacebaby3]

49. Yep, he was at Clayton. Albrook was AF? I think it may have been closed

when he was down there. He was there for 4 months in 1997 and then again for 6 months in 1999.

I had forgotten what they called the buses!

He is a big animal lover like me and particularly liked the monkeys that looked like they were crossed with a raccoon. For the life of me, I can't remember what they were called right now. They were all over the post and very used to human interaction. He has a bunch of pics where they would just come up and sit on his lap or beside him.

Did you love the country when you lived there? Would you ever think of living there again?

[SoCalDem]

50. I have always longed to go back, but it would probably break my heart

We were there until 1962, and the jungle was pristine and all the places wild and undeveloped. You could walk the beaches for MILES and never see another human.

yes Albrook was AF, but Clayton had a better BX, so we always went there :) I still have my monopoly game I bought with my allowance at the BX.. My son laughed his head off when he saw the $1.98 price sticker still on the box :)

are you sure the "monkey" was a monkey? We had coatimundis as pets..they look very raccoon-y:)

[peacebaby3]

53. Yep, that's exactly what they were!

What would they be considered? They certainly don't look like a monkey so I did a pretty poor job of describing tham from memory! I never actually saw them because they wouldn't allow me to go with him since the assignments were both under a year. He loved them and so wanted to carry one home, but, of course, he never would.

He didn't get to see near as much of the country as he would have liked, but he talked about the beautiful beaches. At that time, they were only allowed a certain amount of time off the post and had to always wear civilian clothes (even if on duty) and be careful not to let anyone know they were on post because there had been some incidents with attempted kidnappings of soldiers. There were a lot of people there that still loved Noreiga and didn't love our presence. If you look at it from their point of view, it's understandable.

[SoCalDem]

55. My little coati that I had was called Pogo and he was a darling

they are probably part of the raccoon family, he washed his food like raccoons and used his little claws like a comb when he groomed himself (and my hair too!).' I used to dress him up in doll clothes and wheel him around in the doll buggy :)

My earliest memories are riding horses, bareback (the horse..not me:) ) for hours and hours along deserted beaches :)

[peacebaby3]

58. It sounds amazing. I do hope to see it one day! Maybe it won't all be destroyed

and I will still get to see at least a little bit of what you were able to experience.

I wish I had some of the pictures from my husband's trips in the late 90s, but I think most of them were in the group that got damaged during Hurricane Katrina. He didn't have a digital back then so they were taken with a regular camera and we'd never scanned them in the computer or anything. I'd have loved to have sent some to you so you could have at least seen a few of them. I'll add you to my buddy list and if I run across any and can get them onto the computer, I'll contact you if you would be interested in seeing them.

Edit: typo

[Oeditpus Rex]

20. I suppose one of the scorps could've pulled out an iPhone

or some other kind of iThing, cranked up weather.com, raised a hand and said, "Uh, Tony — it's 105 in Baghdad, not 130."

But what would be the point? If the scorps called a White House Mouthpiece on all of his/her vacuous lies at every briefing, there'd be no vacuous lies to write about. :shrug:

[Neshanic]

25. Right now at 11:30pm it is 91 in Scottsdale.

"Phoenix has an arid climate, and its average annual maximum temperature is the highest of any major US city. In fact, out of the world's large urban areas, only some cities around the Persian Gulf, such as Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, and Baghdad, Iraq, have higher average summer temperatures. The temperature reaches or exceeds 100 °F (38 °C) on an average of 89 days during the year, including most days from early June through early September."

Tonight was the first thunderstorm with rain. That's the temp right now,91 as it is lightly raining now. Not to give any support to Snow, but hot is freaking hot. I cannot imagine the hellish situation of carrying around what our guys have to on patrol. The heat here is beyond bearable, packed with equipment, when I see them on the news, it amazes me.

[napi21]

29. I have a good friend in Goodyear AZ. I think I remember that to be

very close to Scotsdale. I visited her ONCE! I think it was in Sept. She took me out to the desert to see the indian artifacts. It was Beautiful, and the humidity that day was only 8, but suddenly I was feeling VERY HOT! I had to hide under a big jutting rock formation to get out of the sun for a while. We walked back to her car which was parked at a small building that had bathrooms and a water fountain outside. I went right over to the water fountain and doused my face and neck with water and went to the car. While driving back to hor home she looked at me and said "MY GOD you're RED!" It wasn't sunburn, it was something that almost made me feel I wasn't going to survive this! After about 30 minutes in the air conditioned car I was back to normal, but I never quite got over that! To this day, I really CAN'T be out in the hot Ga. sun for more than a minute or two.

I remember going back to work after tha visit and telling everyone, "The next time someone tells you it might be hot in AZ. but the hunidity is low so it doesn't matter." tell them that's BS! It MATTERS!

[dsc]

33. my response to the dry heat nonsense

is that kilns are a dry heat and I don't want to live in them either.

[KharmaTrain]

26. Things Also Get Hotter With Little/No Electricity

I haven't read/seen Riverbend's blog for a while, but those who read her reports know that most homes in Baghdad were lucky to get any regular service...as well as running water or sanitation.

Imagine facing the heat of summer with no electricity...not just A/C, but any fans...including those for ventilation. I would bet those old houses turn into ovens.

While the thermometer may not say 130...wanna bet those houses can get that hot. I expect we're in for a long, hot August in Baghdad...the total collapse of Malaki is imminent.

[deacon]

34. Why will Bush and congress goe on vacation? Isn't Iraq

important enough to suspend their sun tans?

[ThomWV]

36. It is difficult to put the sunny face with the forecast

High 109, low 87.

[Supersedeas]

37. the need to stay in the Beltway cocktail circuit trumps the factual record--everytime for these

superficial powdered faces in the chattering class.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

38. Why couldn't they make the point that our Military is facing the same

heat in Iraq, and facing it outside???

The White House Press are complicit (except for darling Helen!)!!!!

[onenote]

41. They did make that exact point. Here's a link

Before scolding the WH press as "complicit" you might try watching the press briefing discussion. Tony was pushed on this and the point you make about US soldiers being in the same heat was the first things said in response to Tony.


http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/015376.php

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

60. My apologies for misspeaking. Thanks for the link.. :)

[ThomWV]

39. 13% Humidity for whatever that's worth

Reporting at the moment 13% Relative Humidity.

[sinkingfeeling]

40. It does reach 130 degrees in Baghdad on a regular basis. See below.

http://www.usatoday.com/weather/news/2003-08-18-iraq-heat-usat_x.htm

"Right now it's 118, and it feels comfortable," says Lt. Brian Crowley, 33, of Los Angeles. Compared with many days this summer, when troops say the temperatures they've recorded have routinely neared 130 degrees, a 10- or 12-degree drop is welcome.

[Norquist Nemesis]

45. Golden opportunity to say, "But it's okay for Americans to be targets in 130 degree heat"

Right Tony?

[Perky]

54. This is one of the sillier debates I have seen in DU in a while

It just stuns me at time what we get into arguments about.

[Breeze54]

61. Try wearing all that gear in 111 degrees heat!

Haven't you got better things to do?

I mean, they lie about so many things, and all you can come up with is to dispute the f**king temperature?

:rofl:

snip--> 2007-07-17

http://www.emilitary.org/article.php?aid=11644

"Finally, Odierno said he is very proud of the way American service
members are operating in Iraq. The temperature is well over 110 degrees,..."