The biggest reason I come here is to learn, so bear with me - I have a question.

[dddem]

Let's pretend for a moment that we live in a perfect world, and there's a good reason for everything. Now, in the event that you impeach bush & cheney, can you then prosecute them for war crimes, or is it like a double jeopardy situation? Because, frankly, I would be willing to keep these two idiots in office for the rest of thier term if it meant that they would have to pay for what they did. And I would rather see them in jail than retired to Paraguay, or whichever South American country they are heading for.
Thaks for the education!
Peace.

[liberal N proud]

1. Congress can Impeach, Senate can convict the Hague can prosecute

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

14. Can the Hague extradite?

Or just find them guilty in their absence?

Let them enjoy their retirement. Just get them out.

[LARED]

2. Impeachment is a political process

War crimes is a criminal process. So I think you could do both. Don't get your hopes up for either.

[conspirator]

3. Sorry to disappoint you but the rule of law doesn't apply to the elite

"Democracy" is just a system to keep the slaves in order. It doesn't apply to the masters.

[Hubert Flottz]

7. The "rule of law" does not apply to the "Haves and Have Mores!"

You see it in action all over America now.

[mcscajun]

4. Think of Impeachment as a civil, not criminal trial. Yes, I know it says "High Crimes

and misdemeanors", but that's just to establish grounds for such a trial.

The punishment is removal from office. Any prosecution beyond that would be for war crimes and other crimes and would be a different trial or trials, and there'd be no issue of double jeopardy.

Don't hold your breath for either, though.

[Warren Stupidity]

5. Impeachment and conviction remove one from office.

That is a political, not a judicial process. The process does not adversely affect any future criminal prosecution, in fact it enables such prosecutions in the case of a sitting president or vice president.

[dddem]

6. Thanks for the replies. Now that brings me to my next question -

So what's the reason NOT to impeach?!?!?!?!?

[TheBaldyMan]

9. there isn't one

go figure.

[Hubert Flottz]

10. No spine...

The pols put fame, job and bank account, in front of country and justice.

[tkmorris]

15. Public perception of the proceeding

To keep it simple, Repubs in the last couple of decades have been far more ideological than Dems have. They would impeach a can of tuna if it stood in their way, and that is why they were determined to impeach Clinton. They WILL attempt to impeach the next Dem president as well, believe it.

Their attempted impeachment of Clinton cost them some in the eyes of the public but the Dems failed to capitalize on that. The Dems on the other hand are afraid to impeach, lest they be viewed as pursuing a political witch hunt, like the Repubs were. It's rather a conservative approach to governance, which is rather ironic don't you think?

The Dems will go for impeachment if public approval of it reaches 60% or more. I'm not saying that's the right thing, nor courageous, but that is my estimation of their mettle.

To be fair, any impeachment effort in Congress right now would likely inhibit any other policy measures the Dems might want to push. Given their level of success in making policy since January I'm not sure that they lose much, but there it is.

[WilliamPitt]

16. Playing Devil's Advocate here, so don't flame me.

1. Impeachment will consume congress for the next 18 months, which means no legislation to stop the war, no legislation to raise wages, no legislation at all.

2. The war will go on regardless.

3. We might pull a Newt and screw ourselves out of the majority, which cannot happen. For now, we've stopped them from ramrodding through more Patriot Acts, etc., by having the majority. If we impeach, and the public turns on us, we'll have a GOP congress and maybe President Rudy to deal with, so as "bad" as it is now, imagine "worse." If we lose the Senate, we will do so right about the time when two or three more SCOTUS justices step down. Fancy a high court even more right-wing than the one we have now.

I want Cheney impeached, mind you - impeaching Bush is like impeaching a fern - but you asked, and that's the counter-argument.

[proud2BlibKansan]

17. The minimum wage was increased and the endangered species act was passed

in 1974.

I also think we need to be more concerned about the public turning on us for NOT impeaching.

[WilliamPitt]

18. I'll be watching this Reid thing today with great interest

Force GOP Senators facing midterms to vote with Bush and against overwhelming public opinion...and do it again...and again...and again...etc.

They'll either stand firm and get beat, or join us in a veto-proof coalition that can legislate an end to this thing.

[TheBaldyMan]

8. Impeachment & conviction removes them from office.

Another case has to be brought for war crimes, not in the US but in the Hague.

[Jack Bone]

11. I'm no lawyer..but here's what I think

The House Impeaches...the Senate then tries, w/ the Chief Justice of The US Supreme Court presiding..that's w/in US law in our Constitution....War Crimes would be tried in The Hague, a World Court...double-jeopardy, I believe is a US law from our Constitution...I don't think the World Court takes double-jeopardy into account...at least pertaining to a conviction in another court, in this case The US Senate...

The World Court may have a double-jeopardy clause that would fall w/in it's own jurisdiction...but if Cheney and or Bush were impeached and tried by the US Congress, that would be another jurisdiction from The World Court...

[radfringe]

12. Think of it this way

you get caught stealing a computer from work, and you get fired for doing. Getting fired doesn't preclude the company from also filing criminal charges

Impeachment/conviction is like getting fired, but it doesn't stop criminal charges from being applied

[ChairmanAgnostic]

13. impeachment can be based on

high crimes and misdemeanors, and there are plenty from which to choose. A simple war crimes trial would be a totally separate issue, with different allegations and evidence.

[DFW]

19. Not Paraguay

Cheney would probably head for Dubai, where Halliburton is moving to.
He already owns a house on the Iranian resort island of Kish, which is
right across the Gulf. A hovercraft could probably make the trip in 90 minutes.

[Toots]

20. I think the only way they can be charged with a crime is after out of office

Whether by removal with Impeachment or after their term is up. I think while in office they are immune from prosecution.

[Recursion]

21. Article I, Section 3

The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments. When sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two thirds of the Members present.

Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States: but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law.

That said, there are significant immunities in international law granted to a head of state in the course of his duties.