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We need a banking abuse prevention act.

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flamin lib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 10:19 AM
Original message
We need a banking abuse prevention act.
Someone posted a link to a loan application with a 177.4% interest rate. I looked around and found a Texas bank charging 531% and another DUer said he had a $300 Payday loan with 1024% in the fine print. Aren’t there usury laws? How the hell did we get to 1000% interest?

First, a bit of history. Usury regulation dates back to the earliest records of civilization. Most usury law has its roots in religion. Islam forbids charging interest altogether and in the 13th century the Catholic church set the usury rate at 5% with the Protestant faith following with Martin Luther saying that rates of 6% or lower were moral. Ben Franklin said that “when you run in debt you give to another power over your liberty.” Prior to 1978 each state set it’s own limit to interest charged in consumer loans, the highest being 10%. Then, in 1978, the Supreme Court ruled in Marquette National Bank vs First of Omaha that national banks could export the interest rate from the state of loan origin to any state the borrower resides in. That’s when all hell broke loose.

In the late ‘70s banks were experimenting with a new concept: the credit card. Citibank, headquartered in New York, issued tens of thousands of credit cards in an effort to broaden its borrower base. Everything was just ducky until the inflation rate went nuts and the prime rate rose to 20%. New York state law limited consumer interest to 6%. Do the math. Did the free market rule and Citibank go out of business because it made bad marketing decisions? Nope. They shopped around until they found South Dakota and Gov. Bill Janklow (R-State Prison). S. Dakota was considering updating their usury laws to reflect current inflation trends when Citibank contacted the governor and suggested eliminating them entirely for the promise of importing jobs. In 24 hours the legislation was written and passed. Citibank put 3000 jobs in the state and could effectively charge any interest rate they wanted. Delaware and half dozen other states followed suit. State banks were at a severe disadvantage, so they pressured state legislators and guess what; they passed legislation to give parity, effectively repealing state usury laws.

Next banks discovered that some customers were paying the charges before any interest incurred. What to do? Charge annual fees for holding the cards. That didn’t fly so they replaced annual fees with punitive late fees that netted the banking industry $30 billion in profits last year. Credit card issuers charge the merchant 1-4% of each transaction, the card holder up to 39% interest and the card agreement you sign allows the bank to change the terms of their loan at any time, effectively changing the interest rate on money you have borrowed retroactively. What other contract do you sign gives that flexibility to the other party?

Think it can’t get any worse?

Enter the Payday lender. Once known as salary assessment loansharks that are illegal under federal law they simply renamed themselves and made a small adjustment in the way contracts are written. Between 2000 and 2004 the number of payday lenders doubled to reach a number greater than McDonalds, Target, JC Penny, Sears and Burger King combined. The number is expected to double again by 2010. These offices are congregated around military bases and poverty stricken areas. Although state usury laws still apply to non-bank entities like payday lenders they skirt the law by creating in-house brokers to which they pay fees passed on to the lender. Many Payday lenders don’t even use contracts, simply asking for a postdated check for the amount of the principal plus any “loan fees” to be deposited at the term of the “loan”. If the check bounces they assess a returned check fee and extend the “loan” with another “loan fee” added. They then work out repayment over time with the threat that they will report the default to credit reporting agencies. Taken in their entirety the “loan fees” plus returned check fees add up to 5000 to 7000% interest if computed using the Truth in Lending act methodology. Payday loans are not short-term loans; they grow into medium to long-term debt. If a borrower can’t come up with $325 today what are the chances they can come up with $375 two weeks from now? Last year Congress limited the interest rate for payday loans to active military personnel to ONLY 36%.

If congress can limit interest nationally for active military personnel, why won’t they do the same for the rest of us? Because the banking lobby is #3 behind the drug and insurance lobbies (the Military Industrial Complex isn’t a lobby, it’s a branch of government headed by Cheney). Every change in law since 1978 has been to the benefit of the banking industry to the detriment of consumers. Next time you hear somebody talk about the free market hide your wallet.

Sources: The Mythology of American Usury Law, Christopher Peterson, Associate professor of law; University of Florida http://legalhistoryblog.blogspot.com/2007/07/peterson-on-mythology-of-american-usury.html
Frontline PBS http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/credit/more/rise.html
The History of Payday Loans http://www.thehistoryof.net/history-of-payday-loans.html

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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
1. thank Joe Biden
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1monster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
2. Kicked and reccommended. Everyone should read this and demand that
Congress act to protect us.

St. Peter don't cha call me, 'cause I can't gooooooo.
I oooooooooowwwwe myyyyyy soul to the credit card bank...
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
3. Can't outlaw stupidity. And I think they have usury exceptions for flat-rate loans.
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ClintonTyree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 10:31 AM
Response to Original message
4. Excellent post....
the credit card companies are allowed to raise a customers interest rate even if they've never paid late. The reason? If you look in the small print (which hardly anyone ever does, and who could understand it anyway?) it states that of you're delinquent with ANY payment to ANY creditor they have the right to, and will, raise your interest rate.

Let's say your utility payment envelope falls in between the seats of your car and you're late baying the bill. VOILA! The credit card company WILL take advantage of that opportunity to raise your interest rates. And not only on future purchases, but on any balance you may be carrying from past use. Isn't that great?

Who else but the credit card companies can change your interest rate for prior purchases? NO ONE! It's great to be the king! :grr:

These people are pond scum. The Republicans have deregulated everything to the detriment of the American citizen. Everything is tilted toward big business's side and all the money rolls downhill, right into their coffers. :mad:
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 10:38 AM
Response to Original message
5. We do need that, but we also need for people kick the credit habit
We've been brainwashed into living beyond our means.

The latest ad that really pisses me off is the Visa ad that makes fun of paying with cash. Uhhh, excuse me? Since when is paying for a product with CASH wrong? People need to wake up and only use credit for EMERGENCIES.
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flamin lib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. We're moving toward a cashless society. Debit cards are replacing
checkbooks and cash. The problem with debit cards that the transaction is instant so there is no recourse like stop payment of a check or protest of a credit card payment.

There are other issues with the banking industry like processing the largest check first thus bouncing a number of smaller checks to increase penalties. Late fees and penalties are now the largest profit producer for the banking industry.
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. Until we get some serious laws to rein in the banking industry
People are NUTS to depend entirely on debit cards. My opinion, yours may vary.

And people need to live within their means. It's not hard to do, but it takes some discipline.
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flamin lib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. It isn't always possible to "live within your means".
Emergencies do happen. Cars break down, people get sick. Credit is a fact of life and there isn't anything wrong with using it. How would anyone pay cash for a house?

Lenders should be regulated such that they can make a reasonable profit and not be allowed to take advantage of borrowers. Contract agreements should be fair to both sides.
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #12
20. True -- emergencies happen
And you should be budgeting *something* for THAT. But I'm not talking about buying a house for cash. I'm talking about people using credit cards for groceries, or expensive electronic toys, etc.

Lenders are going nuts with the charges and they should be heavily regulated. But consumers really need to really ask themselves if they really NEED things. Learning to budget yourself is no sin. Learning to say NO to the latest fad is no sin. Learning to stretch your income to the end of the month, rather than use a credit card that charges 28% interest to get you through that last week is no sin. And you'd be surprised at how quickly those charges *just to get by* adds up.
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Gormy Cuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #5
16. That ad is annoying. The fact of the matter is plastic cash is easier to spend.
and makes it easier to overextend. Some people do manage their money better with all cashless transactions but many don't. A cashless society benefits banking and credit industries far more than consumers.
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. Exactly!
Get into the habit of whipping out the plastic, and turning off your brain. Doesn't matter if you don't have the cash on hand, just allow the bank to charge you for the use of *their* money.
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Yavin4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #5
23. You're Forgetting One Huge Factor: Health Care Emergencies
The number one cause for all BKs in America is health care. Your kid gets sick and needs care, the parents will take out a 1,000 credit cards if they have to.

One corrupt fucked up system feeds into another corrupt fucked up system, and as long as our elections are about Gays getting married, then no major problems will be resolved.
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OlderButWiser Donating Member (389 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
7. Parents teach your children
to stay away from payday lenders and rent to own places too. Live within your budget, even if your budget is small.
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. We have friends who were successful with rent to own
But the key thing they did was have a real estate lawyer review the contract thoroughly, and ask for changes, so they wouldn't get ripped off. I'm sure there are others who didn't do that, and got into trouble.

People do need to take responsibility for themselves with budgeting and being careful with their money.
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OlderButWiser Donating Member (389 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. Rent to own appeals to ...
...people who want instant gratification, which is common today. There are other, less expensive ways to get furniture, etc. They can use lay away, buy used furniture until they can afford new, or God forbid save their money until they can make a cash purchase. Anything but rent to own. Paying for an attorney to review the contract just adds to the overall expense of the rent to own 'experience'.
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flamin lib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. I think Donna was talking about purchasing a house with
rent to own. Different animal from retail. There are major pitfalls in real estate rent to own but if the contract for deed is written fairly it allows people with little or poor credit to buy a home.
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OlderButWiser Donating Member (389 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. LOL
I thought when I said 'rent to own places' it was clear what I meant. So when someone responded I just assumed...
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #15
22. that's what I was saying - thanks.
Rent to own doesn't always have to be a pitfall. The biggest key is to get a lawyer to review the contract. No one should sign a contract, especially a real estate contract, without a lawyer on your side reviewing it.
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OlderButWiser Donating Member (389 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. I have no knowledge of
rent to own real estate. I am just talking about the pitfalls for rent to own furniture and the like.
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. not entirely true
It's not an instant gratification thing, not at all.

Those who cannot come up with the huge downpayment required to get a real loan - not one of those cheesy ARM teaser loans, can, with smart planning and judicious use of a lawyer, get into a home with a smaller down.

Paying for an attorney to check out the contract keeps the buyer from getting skunked by the few out there looking to scam consumers. ANYONE going into any sort of a real estate venture who thinks it's too expensive to hire someone to review a contract is asking to be taken for a ride.

ANY realtor will advise you to seek out a lawyer. :eyes:
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Amelie Donating Member (138 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
8. Maxed Out
The movie everyone needs to watch.

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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 11:04 AM
Response to Original message
10. Payday loans are nothing more than glorified LOANSHARKING
I wish people would be honest about these damned things. It's the same sort of business the mob used to do on the streets. Now it's suits in a storefront. :grr:
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flamin lib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. The line between loansharking and payday lending is indeed
thin.
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JacquesMolay Donating Member (413 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
17. We need a whole suite of consumer protections - regarding privacy, fees, right of redress...
... this would be a huge boon to a presidential candidate who dared to stand up for the lobbyists of the companies who feel they have carte blanche to 'fee us to death' and charge exorbitant interest rates. And don't get me started with Time Warner Cable.
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