Aspartame: No worries or Poison? (POLL)

[and-justice-for-all]

Tell me what you know of Aspartame. I Just saw the documentary called 'Sweet Misery', in it they go all the way back to the 70s when this 'Nutrasweet' ingredient was being pushed by SEARLE. The company that made 'nutrasweet' which ironically Donald Rumsfeld was CEO of in 1977.

Aspartame, once ingested, turns into formaldehyde.

I looked at my pack of Orbitz gum and my can of Sierra Mist free which both of them have Aspartame in them.

[madokie]

1. I'd say absolute poison

from reading about it thru the years that is.

[Mugsy]

26. They said the same about saccharine.

They said the same about saccharine years ago, about how it caused cancer in mice. Of course, what they *didn't* say was that they junked the mice up with the equivalent of 20 sodas a day in order to "speed up" the test.

I have little doubt that's what's happening here. I consume several aspartame filled products every day... have for years... with no negative effect.

[geomon666]

31. Yet you mean.

They used to say the same thing about smoking.

[TahitiNut]

40. Yep. So, in the near future people will be complaining about second-hand aspartame.

I can believe it. :shrug:

[Larissa238]

50. I think he meant about the danger to the person drinking it

and not about the effects of the people around them. Smoking used to be seen as a healthy thing to do, and today we know the dangers of it. Aspartame has been seen as healthy (no calories and such) and there is a good possibility that we have not seen the dangers of it yet.

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

34. No effects other than everyone says you look well preserved?

I'm so sorry, but I'll take the low road every time...

:rofl:

[Posteritatis]

59. I'd vote poison even if I knew for a fact it was safe

Nothing I ingest without a prescription that tastes that vile can be good. ;)

[blondeatlast]

97. Feel free to take my insulin injections for me--and don't forget to prick

your finger 6 times a day.

[Hissyspit]

2. Rat poison.

Causes cancer in rats.

[cherokeeprogressive]

23. I wonder if science has ever found anything that DOESN'T cause cancer in rats. n/t

[karlrschneider]

30. Yes...distilled water.

:eyes:

[TahitiNut]

39. Yet even drinking too much water in a short time can kill you, too.

:shrug:

[karlrschneider]

44. That damn dihydrogen monoxide!

I'm calling my congressman RIGHT FUCKING NOW!


:silly:

[TahitiNut]

46. Yep. Dihydrogen monoxide intoxication ... a killer for sure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_intoxication

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

3. Poison, and well known to be for a long time -- FDA is a joke. nt.

[fudge stripe cookays]

4. I'm convinced...

that it is what gave me MS. I consumed so much Equal it's not even funny.

[Lorien]

100. Others concure:

"Despite mounting evidence to the contrary, many people still see aspartame as a safe diet aid -- even though it has been demonstrated that the use of this product actually causes people to consume more food.

Aspartame is not your friend. In 1991, the National Institutes of Health listed 167 symptoms and reasons to avoid the use of aspartame, but today it remains a multi-million dollar business. Known to erode intelligence and affect short-term memory, the components of this toxic sweetener may lead to a wide variety of ailments including:

* Brain tumors
* Birth defects
* Diseases like lymphoma, diabetes, multiple sclerosis, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, fibromyalgia, and chronic fatigue
* Emotional disorders like depression and anxiety attacks
* Epilepsy/seizures
* Migraines
* Numbness
* Hearing Loss and ringing in the ears
* Blindness, blurred vision and other eye problems
* Stomach disorders

Your body does not do well with regular sugar, let alone poisonous synthetic sugars like aspartame. With some resources indicating that aspartame may be found in over 9000 consumable products, this man-made sweetener is becoming increasingly more difficult to avoid.

The American diet may well be one of the reasons 18 million of us suffer from migraines, with aspartame at the top of the list of possible culprits."

http://www.mercola.com/forms/sweet_misery.htm

[HysteryDiagnosis]

5. I consider people who foist potentially deadly products upon the

American public to be of a terrorist nature... the motive is profit not hate but the results are the same.

Hang your head in shame Donald.

[Up2Late]

6. Oh get a LIFE! Aspartame is as safe as it gets, SUGAR is less safe!

Yes, that's right, Sugar and High Fructose Corn Syrup have proved detrimental effects if consumed in large amounts, but you have to drink 50 cans of Diet Coke (that's 600 Ounces or 4.6875 Gallons) Everyday for your entire life, from pre-natal to death to maybe have a detrimental effect! And even then, it's questionable.

Here's the link to this bogus study I'm referring to, be sure to read my post at the link below to know what to look for (where the BS is)
<http://www.ehponline.org/members/2007/10271/10271.pdf>

I'm not going to re-post what I posted last month on this, so here's the link to my post regarding the latest TOTALLY BOGUS "aspartame is a danger" study at the link below:

<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2894366&mesg_id=2894802>

I switched to Diet Coke 21 years ago, and I'm not dead, and I don't have Cancer, Or Diabetes from drinking 4 to 6 cans of Sugar or High Fructose Corn Syrup sweetened Cokes a day either.

You want a shitty artificial sweetener product that is infecting the market, try Sucralose, eat too much of that (like more that 5 cookies) and it has a Laxative effect! I avoid that stuff like the plague.

[qanda]

8. But sugar doesn't give me an instant headache

Aspartame does.

[Tesha]

10. (Wouldn't you love to stage a true double-blind test with some of...)

("Wouldn't you love to stage a true double-blind
test with some of these folks?" Tesha observes to
no one in particular...

You know, the folks who are certain that 12 oz of
aspartame-laden soda gives them a headache or ten
minutes exposure to light from a Compact Floursecent
Lamp causes them to break out in hives, etc.)

[qanda]

11. Honestly, I can't even have a taste of aspartame

Even if it's in gum or mints, I know it right away and I would submit to any test available. That stuff is toxic to me. However, I have sisters that drink it like it's water and have no trouble.

[youthere]

91. I have a friend who gets migraines from aspartame....

like, immediately. I made the mistake of serving him a "Jell-o" cake and without thinking used sugar-free jell-o...he actually had to go get a shot to get rid of the headache.

[TalkingDog]

16. The spousal unit and the brother-in-law both react immediately to aspartame....

when they have, on occasion, accidentally ingested it.

And the spousal unit..... not so much of a neurotic hypochondriac (unlike other people in the household).



//resenting the implication that my bo-bo is neurotic, while knowing full well; I most certainly am.





My favorite Future Famous Dead Artist: KarenParker

[pitohui]

35. what's odd about that, maybe the poster has an allergy

i can eat peanut butter by the jar and in fact i just had a big spoonfull but i don't make fun of other people who have died from just one bite of peanut butter or peanuts

body chemistry is individual, if we learned nothing else from the 60s we should have learned this...but if you are still in doubt, ask your doctor!

[Tesha]

36. Are there any reports of allergies to Aspartame in any refereed journals?

Two questions:

1. Are there any reports of allergies to Aspartame
in any refereed journals? A quick search of NEJM
was un-revealing as was a somewhat broader search
using Google.

2. Given the number of DUers who make these sorts of
claims ("I turn bright red if exposed to even a teeny
bit of dihydrogen monoxide!"), it seems like there'd
be more mentions of such stuff in "the literature".

Could a few people be allergic? Perhaps. Is it likely
that a bunch of DUers could be allergic? Doubtful.

Tesha

[Up2Late]

47. Exactly, it could be the aspartame they are allergic to, or it could be any of the other dozen...

...chemicals that are used in the same product.

My advice to those people who get "instant headaches," Avoid Aspartame, your probably allergic.

[slowry]

123. Who's the real pseudo-scientist?

I've observed a generally gross feeling and headaches from all kinds of products WITH aspartame<1>. They also make me crave actual sugary sweets, which don't taste like warm garbage. When I don't eat shit with aspartame I feel AWRIGHT.

You know, back before scientific journals, people relied on their senses to make observations about the world around us; yeah, they got a lot of shit wrong<2>, but at least they trusted their own evolved sense of touch, taste, hearing, smell, and sight.

I'm sick of reading posts reproaching people for being pseudo-scientific, when they've been observant enough to notice their body reacting in an unpleasant way, consistently, to certain things they've put in it.

<1> You know what else makes me feel generally ill? Garlic and/or onions, in any quantity. And I love them. I would nibble away at a clove of garlic if it was the last thing between me and a fucking vampire<3> -- if it didn't give me an unquenchable thirst, and make me extremely tired. As I've aged, this effect has become more intense, so I just avoid these things altogether (which is harder than it might sound).

<2> Yes, maybe we're wrong about this; maybe it's not aspartame per se, but another ingredient often or always found in products containing aspartame. Guess what? That's good enough for me. You may not be comfortable with that, until you see it in a textbook, but I have no qualms avoiding the nasty stuff, or any product which contains it.

<3> No, I don't actually believe in vampires -- unless we're talking about Cheney.

- slowry, amateur astronomer/physicist/mathematician/engineer/historian/pseudo-scientific whackjob

[and-justice-for-all]

64. Nope, no allergy...

Just trying to separate the facts from the bullshit. I'm allergic to penicillin.

[Lost4words]

84. yea there are no harmful things, Thalidomide?

Thalidomide for cramps anyone?

[Up2Late]

52. Then YOU should avoid aspartame, YOU are probably allergic to it, just like...

...some people cannot eat Peanuts or peanut butter. I live on Peanut Butter, but for some people, a single peanut is deadly.

You should avoid Aspartame.

There is an old joke:

A man walks into a see his Doctor, the Doctor ask, "What seems to be the problem?"

The man responds by standing up and reaching is arm behind his back and says, "Doctor, it hurts when I do this..."

The Doctor responds, Well then, Don't DO that!

Get my point? YOU should avoid Aspartame, but that doesn't mean everyone should.

Have you ever seen the Warning on the cans of Diet Coke? :shrug:

It says, PHENYLKETONURICS: CONTAINS PHYENYLALNINE. Ever look into what that means? Google it! The first hit you get in Google goes to the web site "Stupid Questions Answered," here are the first few answers:

<http://www.stupidquestionsanswered.com/answered/dietpop.htm>

What is this in diet pop?

From: "Mario"

Im a big diet soda drinker and I can't help but notice the warning level on every damn can or bottle, PHENYLKETONURICS CONTAINS PHENYLALANINE, what is PHENYLALANINE and what is a PHENYLKETONURIC??

TB first attempted with this answer:

An essential amino acid, C9H11NO2, that occurs as a constituent of many proteins and is normally converted to tyrosine in the human body. It is necessary for growth in infants and for nitrogen equilibrium in adults. PHENYLKETONURIC is the medical term for someone allergic to phenylalanine is a "phenylketonuric." Hence the notice "Phenylketonurics: Contains Phenylalanine" benefits people allergic to this acid.

Edwin gave us his professional answer:

sorry for the Organic Chemistry lingo, but:
Diet soda is sweetened with the artificial sweetener aspartame. Aspartame is a di-amide of the two amino acids Phenylalanine and Apsartic acid, with the phenylalanine side esterized to a methyl group from its carboxyl group.-----When your body breaks down aspartame, the aspartame is converted into its separate pieces: aspartamic acid, phenylalanine, and methanol. So of course when you eat some aspartame you are quickly getting a jolt of phenylalanine in you that you wouldn't normally get. Some people are allergic to large amounts of phenylalanine in their system, these people are called phenylketonurics and the condition phenylketonuria. It's not that they can't have phenylalanine altogether, as a matter of fact you need phenylalanine - it's just that aspartame gives you a higher level of phenylalanine in your system than you would normally have, which some people are allergic to.

amr shalakani shared with the internet community what he knows:

to make it simpler.... PHENYLKETONURICS are people who have a congenital malfunction in their body ...they lack a specific enzyme in their body that turns PHENYLALANINE and other substances into harmless stuff....PHENYLALANINE itself is a natural occuring amino-acid..it's not harmful itself but if it reaches high concentrations in the body it could start turning into harmful substances.That's why PHENYLKETONURICS are more prone.....

(more at link)
<http://www.stupidquestionsanswered.com/answered/dietpop.htm>

[qanda]

54. I said this in another response up thread

Where I referenced my own sisters, who can drink it like it's water with no problem. However, for people to more or less accuse those who complain of having headaches after ingesting aspartame as faking or whatever is just ridiculous.

[toadzilla]

12. sugar and high fructose corn syrup are not the same.

high fructose corn syrup, avoid like the plague. normal sugar? just use some moderation.

unfortunately if your going to drink soda, the vast majority of them are full of corn syrup.
thats the main reason i developed a fondness for vitamin water, no corn syrup.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

38. high fructose corn syrup IS sugar.

[kineneb]

56. high fructose corn syrup is Karo

fructose derived from ag byproducts, sugar is sucrose...slightly different chemical...

Karo is what we used to use for making candy, because it is far more concentrated than sugar, which has to be boiled down longer.

[Rosemary2205]

67. No it isn't.

regular corn syrup and high fructose corn syrup are barely related. The body processes them entirely differently.

regular corn syrup, cane sugar, molases, honey are processed by the body in a similar fashion. High fructose corn syrup is a whole other manufacturing process and is HELL on the body.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

41. I think you intended to make the distinction between

high fructose corn syrup and cane sugar. Technically both are sugars, but they're derived from different sources and refined differently.

[TalkingDog]

14. You don't have cancer? Neither do many people who smoke.

What an insubstantial argument based on a rather selective observation.

If you smoked, would you suggest that smoking is okay for everyone, because it obviously hasn't harmed you? Would you suggest that it is alright for small children to smoke as long as they don't smoke too much?

Here are the two parts of the findings that concern me.

"The Italian researchers found a cancer risk at the very highest doses - double the US Acceptable Daily Intake."

"the lower does is equivalent to a 50-pound child drinking 2½ cans of diet soda per day" This, unlike your other more histronically presented argument regarding adult intake, is quite possible and realistic in American society.

You are using a burden of proof argument (a fallacious argument, if you will) by saying that something that has not been proven incontrovertably true, must be false.

The study may have had flaws. The substance may be safe for some people. If that's the case, I'm a libertarian on that point. If people want to do stupid things to themselves...as long as they don't hurt other people or cost me money doing it....go for it. But children don't get to correct the bad decisions parents make for them.

Don't throw out the 50 lb. children with the flawed study bathwater.




My favorite Future Famous Dead Artist: KarenParker

[Up2Late]

57. No, I don't smoke, Yes, it is "...an insubstantial argument based on a...selective observation...."

It's also called an simple argument used as an example, it was not meant as definitive conclusion.

But NO! The Study data DOES NOT show what the "Italian researchers" claim it does! Look at the data, not just the summery and/or the abstract pages, the DATA did NOT show what they claimed it showed.

The study was not just "flawed," it's BOGUS!

The Data does NOT support conclusions of the the study. And the website that the is hosting the study report is a U.S. Government Website!!!

Get it yet? It's Propaganda! Why? You tell me, I have my own theories.

More info at the links I gave in my previous post and my DU Journal.

[KittyWampus]

71. well there are erythritol and xylitol- both alchohol sugars. Erythritol has no laxative effect

and xylitol requires consumer to eat gradually larger amounts to avoid laxative effect (as ones body begins producing more of necessary enzyme to digest xylitol.

Both these sugar alchohols retard bacterial growth and are digested further down. They are safe for diabetics.

[Up2Late]

79. Sorry, I meant Sorbitol, I hate that stuff. I really don't understand why they are still using it...

...now that Splenda is out. So many products I'd like to buy, that are now sweetened with Splenda, STILL have Sorbitol in them, which just drives me nuts. I would buy them if they would just stop adding that stuff.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorbitol>

[devilgrrl]

74. Get a life???????

Seeing that you're an expert, what kind of life should people get?

I hate the fucking statement.

:nuke:

[TexasProgresive]

7. Other

I don't know how this stuff affect most people but I was taking a lot in drinking Diet Coke and I have diabetes. After some 12 years of this my feet got extremely tender, I had allodynia (painful skin with no apparent reason) on the front of both thighs and if I saw someone fall, or sliding on the ground on TV I would feel it in my legs.

There was a thread in DU about kids consuming large quantities of Aspartame to get some sort of high and one of the posters reported that it caused them to have nervous twitches in their legs. I had that, too and so decided to cut it out. Within 2 weeks 90% of my symptoms were clear. Then I noticed that the Metamucil I take has Aspartame. Found some that is sweetener free and became 99% symptom free.

I knew that Aspartame has an analgesic effect and must have some effect on nerves. I have not consumed any Aspartame in over a year and don't really want to try it to see if my problems come back. I am happy not using it.

[Tesha]

9. You didn't include the most-correct answer: "No worries unless you have PKU"

PKU = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenylketonuria

Tesha

[Junkdrawer]

13. How about a "Enough doubt that I wouldn't feed it to my kids" choice. n/t

[TalkingDog]

15. How about: " I'm in 100 percent agreement with a calm and rational viewpoint." choice.

If we were all chemically exactly the same, we would have one person be the test monkey and then we could all be assured that nobody would be hurt by any substance.

But, to paraphrase a Sufi idea: Allah delights in life's infinite variety.

As should we and give our differences the respect they are due.




My favorite Future Famous Dead Artist: KarenParker

[Sweet Freedom]

17. Does it really turn into formaldehyde?

I have seen a debunked chain e-mail about the dangers of aspartame, but I haven't been able to find a link to scientific proof that aspartame turns into formaldehyde. Interested if anyone has that. Thanks.

[Up2Late]

60. No, it breaks down into it's component parts in the body, one of which is...

...Methanol. <http://www.stupidquestionsanswered.com/answered/dietpop.htm>

Then, if I'm remembering correctly, it further breaks down into Formaldehyde, which is a carcinogen when breathed in large quantities. What a small amount in the digestive track does? I would have to do further research on that, or you could.

[Sweet Freedom]

65. I will check out the link. Thanks. /nt

[robcon]

18. It's not poison. It's safe.

It's been one of the most tested foods ever. I was part of the original tests (1970's) of the product, which was only produced in Japan then. The only negative we got was convulsions if chimps ingested truly MASSIVE doses of the product - way beyond what humans could possible ingest.

It perfectly safe, IMO.

[jhain]

19. *N*E*V*E*R touch it

and my dh is a pilot- neuro complications will ground any pilot for life.
we never touch it. and, it is nearly impossible to find and gum or mints without that shit now.

have to go to the health food store and pay 4 bucks for a stick of gum.

Thanks, Runmmy.

[karlrschneider]

29. I'm a pilot too, switched to it from sugar when it first came out,

have absolutely no problems on annual flight physicals.

[KittyWampus]

72. look for gum/mints with xylitol. There are quite a few now. It's an alchohol sugar

used in gum and mints because it also retards bacterial growth thus helping prevent tooth decay.

[Bill McBlueState]

20. other

I bet the truth lies somewhere in the middle of your two rather extreme choices.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

21. Anyone who thinks Aspartame is safe needs to look at this documentary...

Sweet Misery: A Poisoned World

1 of 10: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTTw0l_X-Vs

2 of 10: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYPmAeCUJQY&mode=related&search=

3 of 10: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ermss3_w5o0&mode=related&search=

4 of 10: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5dPPzWrWG8&mode=related&search=

5 of 10: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDrJK6Ws9Us&mode=related&search=

6 of 10: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjKO2WxMhb0&mode=related&search=

7 of 10: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcmn3GyuLLY&mode=related&search=

8 of 10: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmhKnoy_Hb4

9 of 10: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpPt1ELTKA8&mode=related&search=

10 of 10: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHW7lems5z4

[robcon]

22. That's an unscientific, selective analysis of aspartame.

Aspartame has been studied so often, and has been shown to be safe, that a few people finding something where there is NOTHING is remarkable.

As I've said, I'll stand behind aspartame's safety (except, of course for phenylkinuretics - which was known in 1970. Testing for phenylkinuresis is a required test for every newborn, and the ingestion of broccoli or other pk-containing food, is more dangerous for pku patients.)

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

28. Sorry, I don't find that very persuasive...

...This documentary is sufficiently compelling for me to stay away from the stuff.

If you don't mind my asking, do you regularly use Aspartame sweetened products?

[Akoto]

24. Kind of a complicated question for me, because ...

I believe it's a question of moderation. Unless you're drinking a twelve pack of diet soda every day, I doubt you'll consume enough to do real harm. If you WERE drinking that much every day, then aspartame is probably the last of your health concerns.

Look at alcohol. It's a proven poison. Impairs your mental functions, induces a defensive response (vomiting), and it can even destroy your organs. Yet, people have continued to drink it for hundreds of years. It's all about moderation.

[JerseygirlCT]

25. I know it effects me like poison. nt

[KansDem]

27. Just stay away from artificial sweetners...all artificial sweeteners...period!

Kick the "Coke/Pepsi" habit

No need to ingest high-fructose corn syrup or artificial sweetener/chemical crap.

...drink seltzer instead!

[Le Taz Hot]

32. I'm with you there.

Raw sugar and honey gathered from our local bees does our family just fine. Further, we try not to eat anything even remotely resembling processed food. Making everything from scratch is time-consuming but I KNOW what goes into everything we eat.

Here's a suggestion for a good, really refreshing beverage with no sweetener: Mint/Lemon Iced tea. Use 4 teabags of Bigelow Plantation Mint and 2 teabags of Bigelow Lemon Lift. Brew as you normally would. Chill. Makes a pitcher. For garnish, use fresh mint sprig and a slice of fresh lemon.

[KansDem]

42. Mmmmm...

:9

your recipe sounds delicious! (It was 95 degrees here yesterday).

[SidDithers]

33. Good thing science isn't done by popular vote...nt

Sid

[KittyWampus]

73. it is done by an industrial complex whose primary goal is to make money regardless of

potential dangers to public. It's so much easier to have lawmakers pass legislation to exempt you from litigation.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

37. I suppose hundreds of millions of people are going to drop dead...

any second now.

[Tesha]

61. Well, at least "eventually". ;-) (NT)

[Totally Committed]

43. Have you tried Stevia?

Stevia is a powdered herb that is very sweet, and comes in packets just like aspartame and Sacchrin, but is herbal instead of chemical. It has no calories, and so far as I've been able to see, has no worse side effect than it leaves a thin layer of "froth" on the top of the tea or coffee in which it's used.

Since I switched from the artificial sweeteners, I've had fewer and fewer migraines and a very dissipated craving for sugary foods.

TC


ETA: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stevia

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

45. If you advance this segment of the documentary...

... to 8:08 there's a man talking about Stevia and how the FDA won't approve it as an alternative to sugar, which is just amazing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHW7lems5z4

Stevia is safe and the FDA won't approve it and Aspartame causes very serious health problems and they approve it, even in the face of very damming scientific studies, and now hundreds of documented cases of health problems caused by it.

This couldn't make it any more obvious whose interests the FDA actually serves -- NOT ours, that's for sure. Can you say Big Pharma? We'd be much better off with no FDA than with them operating like this. Then at least people wouldn't have the false sense of security from their BS approval of dangerous substances.

[Mandate My Ass]

49. I made the switch to stevia last year

The best thing I ever did was ween myself off cola and especially diet cola. I was addicted, and I also suffered from frequent lumps and bumps in my breasts, neck and armpits. Not to mention the dreaded headaches.

I now only drink water and tea sweetened with stevia. IIRC, even in Whole Foods it's sold as a food supplement, not an artificial sweetener. You can even bake with it.

[Warren DeMontague]

77. I think it's in some herbal teas that I drink.

Haven't noticed any particular sweetness, though. Maybe it's just a little bit. OTOH, it hasn't hurt me.

[Ellen Forradalom]

48. Stuff gives me ferocious headaches

Can't speak for anyone else but I avoid it like the plague.

[noonwitch]

51. No problem for me

I love my Diet Coke!

I've never had a problem with aspartame, but I'm sure that like anything else, some people have a sensitivity or maybe even an allergy to it.

[kineneb]

58. married to a diabetic person

we don't "do" sugared foods, fructose or sucrose. I prefer Splenda, but diet drinks are still better for the pancreas and teeth than sodas with HFCS.

[TahitiNut]

53. I would NEVER underestimate the power of Archer Daniels Midland (ADM) in defending the sugar bowl.

Never.

Cane sugar is evil (unless global agribusiness can own foreign land in perpetuity). Corn syrup is king.

[Hippo_Tron]

55. I'd be interested to see the results of this poll if you didn't include the mention of Rumsfeld

Considering that they pump the rats with 20x their body weight in aspartame when they do these studies and there's no confirmed link between cancer and aspartame, I've weighed the unlikely risk of cancer against the much more likely possibility of diabetes and heart disease, which run in my family, and decided that drinking diet soda is better.

[and-justice-for-all]

66. It was mentioned in the Doc..

..it could have been a determining factor in this poll, I didn't think of that at the time of post.

Misdiagnoses was an element in the doc, there was some lymphoma issues as well as other no cancer matters. Searle was caught doing late autopsies on animal specimens and removing the tumors from them prior to FDA approval, according to the doc.

[Hippo_Tron]

69. Assuming what you say is true...

Considering how long ago that was and how many studies have been done since then, it's still not reason for me to give up aspartame.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

62. kick. nt.

[Kansas Wyatt]

63. Upon my death, you may cut me open and see the effects for yourself.

I have consumed massive amounts of it for decades, and should be dead if it is unsafe.

[Deja Q]

68. Mum drinks stuff made from it all the time, has no problems...

She also exercises daily.

I drink it often and have read on some of the things it can do, but haven't encountered any of them personally. (apart from a sugar craving when I do eat a small piece of candy, so I struggle to not eat more...) I need to exercise more, and that's my real problem.

[Warren DeMontague]

70. I won't touch it with a 10 foot pole.

No thanks.

[DemGa]

75. Poison; and I see no reason to consume that crap anyway

[devilgrrl]

83. You can say that again. Oh yum! Diet Coke! It beats drinking water!

:sarcasm:

[ecstatic]

76. I'm in trouble. Have ingested some form of crystal lite every day for 2+ yrs

:scared:

[mod mom]

78. I'm growing/using stevia. No calories, 400 x as sweet as sugar, and natural.

[Tesha]

80. So 3/4 of DUers live in a fantasy land.

Well, that's sad. 3/4 of the respondents have concluded,
against all scientific evidence, that aspartame is a
poison to everyone, not just sufferers of PKU.

If we ever need proof-point that a lot of folks here
live in an absolute fantasy land, I guess we can offer
up the results of this poll.

Tesha

[michael_1166]

81. You're simply wrong.

You cannot say "against all scientific evidence". Go to this Wikipedia article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspartame_controversy
read the whole thing and then you'll notice there's a lot of discussion going on in scientific circles about whether Aspartame is dangerous or not. There is no final word about it being harmless or not yet.

Since I stopped drinking Diet Coke, my (then) chronic headaches are gone. They faded out about one week after I banned everything from my diet that contained Aspartame. That's enough proof for me that Aspartame can have adverse health effects in at least some people.
And especially in the case of food additives it's always important to look at who gave the money for studying their effects. Sadly, "scientific evidence" can be bought nowadays. The only case where I know I'm not being lied to is to study my own body's reaction to those additives. Call that "circumstantial evidence" if you want, but when my body says "no", it remains a "no", regardless of what so-called experts say.

I simply see no point in consuming a questionable chemical substance that has no nutritional value whatsoever. Our bodies do not need Aspartame for anything. WHY should I consume it, give me one reason. If you eat responsible, you can occasionally eat sugar too without getting fat. But there are so much people who binge on Aspartame and get fat nevertheless (or even because of). Aspartame is simply a marketing scam, and there are serious hints it makes people sick.

[Tesha]

82. Strangely enough, all the studies cited in that article...

Strangely enough, all the actual studies cited
in that article show little or NO detectable effects
from aspartame consumption.

Tesha

[michael_1166]

89. Again, you're wrong.

From the Wikipedia article linked above:

There is debate in the scientific and medical community as to whether or not these symptoms are caused by short-term or long-term exposure to aspartame. Some human and animal studies have found adverse effects<8><9><10> and some have found no adverse effects.<11><12><13>

<8>Walton RG, Hudak R, Green-Waite RJ, "Adverse reactions to aspartame: double-blind challenge in patients from a vulnerable population," Biological Psychiatry, Vol. 34, Pages 13-17, 1993

<9>Koehler SM, Glaros A, "The effect of aspartame on migraine headache," Headache, Volume 28, pages 10-14, 1988

<10>Smith JD, Terpening CM, Schmidt SO, Gums JG, "Relief of fibromyalgia symptoms following discontinuation of dietary excitotoxins," The Annals of Pharmacotherapy, Volume 35, pages 702-706, 2001

<11>Spiers PA, Sabounjian L, Reiner A, Myers DK, Wurtman J, Schomer DL, "Aspartame: neuropsychologic and neurophysiologic evaluation of acute and chronic effects," American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Volume 68, pages 531-537, 1998

<12>Schiffman SS, Buckley CE 3rd, Sampson HA, Massey EW, Baraniuk JN, Follett JV, Warwick ZS, "Aspartame and susceptibility to headache," New England Journal of Medicine, Volume 317, pages 1181-1185, 1987

<13>Gurney JG, Pogoda JM, Holly EA, Hecht SS, Preston-Martin S, "Aspartame consumption in relation to childhood brain tumor risk: results from a case-control study," Journal of The National Cancer Institute, Volume 89, pages 1072-1074, 1997

The US air force issued an alert in 1992, warning air force pilots about drinking aspartame containing diet drinks before flying<15>.

<15>US Air Force 1992. "Aspartame Alert." Flying Safety 48(5):20-21 (May 1992)

Approximately 10% of aspartame (by mass) is broken down into methanol in the small intestine. Most of the methanol is absorbed and quickly converted into formaldehyde. Some experts/scientists believe that the metabolism of aspartame does not damage the body because: (a) the quantity of methanol produced is too small to disrupt normal physiological processes; (b) methanol and formaldehyde are natural by-products of human metabolism and are safely processed by various enzymes; and (c) there is more methanol in some natural fruit juices and alcoholic beverages than is derived from aspartame ingestion.<16><17>

Other experts/scientists believe that (a) fruit juices and alcoholic beverages contain protective chemicals such as ethanol that block conversion of methanol into formaldehyde, while beverages with aspartame contain no "protective factors"; (b) exposure to very low levels of methanol and formaldehyde have been proven to cause chronic toxicity in humans; and (c) the low levels of methanol and formaldehyde in natural human metabolism are tightly-controlled and small increases above these levels can contribute to chronic poisoning.<18><19>

In 1998, a team of scientists in Spain conducted an experiment on rodents to indirectly measure the levels of formaldehyde adducts in the organs after ingestion of aspartame. They did this by radiolabeling the methanol portion of aspartame. The scientists concluded that formaldehyde bound to protein and DNA accumulated in the brain, liver, kidneys and other tissues after ingestion of either 20 mg/kg or 200 mg/kg of aspartame.<20> However, representatives of the manufacturer of aspartame have argued that these scientists were not directly measuring formaldehyde, but simply measuring levels of some by-product of the methanol from aspartame.<21> Tephly thinks that the by-product was not formaldehyde. The researchers have stated that the data in the experiment proves it was formaldehyde.<22>

<16> PMID 12180494
<17> sciencedirect article
<18> "Aspartame: Methanol and the Public Health" Journal of Applied Nutrition Vol. 36(1) on dorway.com
<19> holisticmed.com about methanol
<20> PMID 9714421
<21> PMID 12180494
<22> Personal communication from Dr. Mari Alemany (lead author of the study) to Rich Murray at healthgroups yahoo, message 864

(Actual links to the sources are part of the Wikipedia article.)

I could go on citing from that article, showing your there indeed is an Aspartame controversy going on (that's all I wanted to show, it's everyone's own decision if they consume Aspartame or not), but I guess there's no point in challenging a scientific mind displaying deliberate selective perception. Anyone really interested in the subject can read the Wikipedia text themselves and prove your statement being wrong.

Anyway... also I notice you carefully avoided my question why we should consume Aspartame at all. This is the most important point in the whole controversy! If someone consumes aspartame, they might as well also consume sand or coal dust or hay tea. There's very little nutritional value in sand or coal dust either. Anyone seriously interested in checking out hay tea can do this for free, Aspartame has to be artificially produced. It gets produced because there's money to be made with it, because it tastes sweet and thus encourages people to continue with their irresponsible eating habits. Or why do you think obesity never has been as worse as it is now? I think this is probably the most dangerous and most visible (indirect) adverse health effect Aspartame has done to Western societies.
Now look again at sand or coal dust or hay tea: Do they indirectly contribute to obesity, heart diseases and high blood pressure? No? So why don't we eat and drink them regularly? Because, compared to aspartame, they taste like dung, that's why. And that's why aspartame is a sweet poison. No scientist on the payroll of Monsanto can change that.

3/4 of the poll respondents see there's absolutely no point in consuming Aspartame, and they certainly don't deserve your comment about living in a "fantasy land".

[Tesha]

90. Why should we use Aspartame?

Because we like things that are sweet and some folks
either don't need the calories in sugar or simply
can't tolerate the calories in sugar (diabetics).

Sand and coal dust don't taste as good.

Tesha

[Tesha]

92. I think you've been drinking too much Aspartame

As I said, the cited studies don't support your point.

Let's just take {8}, the first one I looked at.

One, it's not a random population sample, it's a specific
sample of people with diagnosed psychiatric disorders.

Two, the dose rate is very high (30mg/Kg), so let's say
1500 mg for a hypothetical 50 kilo person. 8 ounces of Diet
Pepsi contains 118 mg of Aspartame, so we're talking
approximately 8 12-oz cans of diet soda for our hypothetical
50 kilo (110 pound) person.

Like I said, the studies prove little or no effect in the
general population at reasonable dose rates.

Tesha

[michael_1166]

96. Well then, bon appétit, Tesha.

In the end it's everyone's own decision whether to use Aspartame or not.

The irresponsible use it as an excuse to stay irresponsible, instead of eating and drinking healthy food. They might not die from Aspartame directly, but we all can watch them in slow motion getting sick anyway.

That's all, no point in continuing a fruitless discussion. If you believe in science, have fun with it, I'm having fun cause my headaches are gone.

:-)

[SidDithers]

86. Yup...

as I said upthread, good thing science isn't done by popular opinion.

Sid

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

94. Please feel free to provide links to the scientific...

...evidence you're referencing.

If you believe 75% of DUers live in fantasy land, why are you here?

Is it important to you that people consume Aspartame? Sure seems like it.

[Tesha]

95. Just reference the Wiki article that was cited by my opponent above.

And no, I have no interest in coercing anyone to either
consume or avoid Aspartame, I just have an interest in
seeing respect for *SUPPORTABLE FACTS*.

Tesha

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

105. Your joking, right?

Against ALL scientific evidence. I don't think you even bothered to read the Wiki entry.

[Tesha]

106. I read the WIki article.

I read the WIki article.

It cites a lot of suspicions, a few studies that
*UNDER LIMITED/EXAGERATED CONDITIONS* show some
risk (as in study {8} that I discussed above),
and several large-scale studies that show
no risk.

Where's the beef?

Tesha

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

111. You're careful to be awfully vague...

...you started out citing "ALL the scientific evidence" and have yet to provide a link to even one specific study. Why is that?

[Tesha]

112. Are you being deliberately obtuse? *YOU* provided all the references I need. (NT)

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

113. Still no links -- and no credibility either. nt.

[Tesha]

117. I'll explain this in small words.

You provided a Wikipedia link to an article that
describes alleged Aspartame risks.

The article provides a series of references.

If anyone reads these references, they will find
that the big studies show Aspartame to not have
any risks other than to people who suffer from
PKU. The little studies, which seem to show some
risks, used large doses or selected, susceptible
populations.

And you're right; you have no credibility left;
I'm done -- you may have the last word.

Tesha

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

119. I provided a Wikepedia link?

...Please direct me to the post where I provided a Wikipedia link.

I wonder if this might be yet another example of the ease with
which you make false claims.

And again I see you're offering no links to any specific studies,
only your summation of no risk other than to PKU sufferers,
which is bullshit.

Are you a consumer of Aspartame? I doubt it.

[Tesha]

120. Ahh, you're right: I confused you with another poster.

Ahh, you're right: I confused you with another poster.
See this post

o http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1375775&mesg_id=1407302

although you really could have figured this out for yourself
since I mentioned it explicitly in this post:

o http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1375775&mesg_id=1408522

Tesha

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

125. And I will reluctantly give you the benefit of the doubt...

...and assume that "confused" is the operative, most apt descriptor for you, although I worry that "disingenuous" might be a little closer to the truth.

[Tesha]

126. Thanks for your concern. (NT)

> although I worry that "disingenuous" might be a little closer to the truth.

Perhaps you're projecting?

Tesha

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

127. You're quite welcome...

...and thank you for helping keep this thread kicked -- people need to know what poison Aspartame is, and I appreciate your help.

[michael_1166]

107. So personal experience doesn't count as "supportable facts",

but the "facts" of "scientists" paid by the very industry they're supposed to be independent from do count? No, I don't have any respect for those "facts". I do not trust them.
There are no independent scientists anymore these days. Or if there are, they must be just as rare as honest politicians. The only thing we have that we can trust is ourselves. Sad, but that's the way it is, just my opinion of course.

[Tesha]

109. No, your anecdote, in isolation, doesn't count.

Sorry, but Science doesn't work that way.

Tesha

[michael_1166]

110. Yeah fine Tesha,

but Science with a capital "S" is extinct nowadays and got replaced by the "$" sign, in case you didn't notice. Sorry to disturb your dreams.

And one person's anecdote is another person's account of what made all the difference. It DOES count (for me).

In former times, what I carried out was called the Experimental Method. I experienced observable, empirical and measurable evidence (headaches gone) by experiment (no Aspartame). And because there is just one person in the world that is like me, and that's me, this is not a result that counts as being gathered in isolation: Sorry, I don't have an identical twin brother for verifying my experimental result. I got a result, I'm content with it and I do not need further pseudo "experts". For my individual body, I'm my own scientist and this scientist says I would be stupid taking up Aspartame again for experiencing all the goodness of painful headaches that aren't there according to Monsanto's scientist. Thank you very much.

If an individual's Experimental Method nowadays gets called an "anecdote" by people like you, I couldn't care less about this kind of patronizing "scientific" attitude. Times change. Everything is upside down.

[Lorien]

115. Your experiences are common

I once worked for a major film studio where one of my superiors was Jeffery Katzenberg, a man famous in Hollywood for his famous diet Coke addiction. We had diet Coke on tap in our break rooms, free to anyone who desired it. about 40% of the people I worked with never touched the stuff because they claimed that it gave them excruciating headaches. I drank a lot of the stuff at the time, and also downed eight Tylenol a day to take the edge off my headaches (which I thought were stress related), and lost about three days of work a month due to migraines. Eventually a friend convinced me to kick the diet Coke habit, and after a week or so my headaches and migraines disappeared. A few years later Jeffrey also ended his decade long love affair with diet Coke and claims to have far more energy since doing so.

Just another "anecdote" from someone who never owned stock in Searle, and sold their Monsanto stock when they discovered how truly corrupt the corporation is.

[Tesha]

118. Are you familiar with the term "caffiene headache"?

Are you familiar with the term "caffiene headache"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffeine

There's a lot more in Diet Coke than just Aspartame.

And that points up the problem with un-scientific
anecdotal evidence. There's no simple way to sort
out, based on this anecdote, whether the headaches
were caused by the caffeine (a well-known trigger)
or Aspartame (a not-well-known trigger). The only
way you could actually do this would be to conduct
a properly controlled, double-blind experiment. But
because both Aspartame and caffeine can be tasted,
the experiment would require pretty careful design.

Tesha

[Lorien]

121. Since the same people don't get headaches when drinking coffee

I would say that in their cases it's not the caffeine.

Geez Tesha, why are you so hellbent on defending aspartame? Do you own huge amounts of stock in Searle or Monsanto? Do you have a deep devotion to Don Rumsfeld? Do you always accept unquestioningly the assertions of huge corporations? Or do you just love seeking out "opponents" on internet discussion boards?

[Tesha]

122. I have no commercial interest in Aspartame.

I do, on the other hand, think a lot of people here
believe a lot of truly odd and likely totally wrong
stuff. It comes up every time we talk about Aspartame,
vaccines, compact fluorescent lamps, etc., etc.

In fact,pretty much any topic that seems to depend
upon understanding Science and the Scientific Method.

One of the interesting aspects of it is that people
*ALMOST ALWAYS* resort to:

o Ad hominem arguments and/or

o Accusations of conflicts of interest.

(Just as you've just done.)

Tesha

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

99. It's a shame.

But I assume it's not reflective of the real DU community.

[Lorien]

102. Oh really?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8N0z8stino&mode=related&search=

[devilgrrl]

103. Oh aspertame - I so have to have it - it tastes so good. Soda Pop is so good for you!!!!!

:sarcasm:

I live in Fantasy Land!!!!

[zanne]

85. A warning for people who quit smoking and turn to hard candy...

Alot of people who quit smoking turn to mints, hard candies or anything that's convenient and can be popped in the mouth to allay the oral fixation of smoking. Within a week, these candies will produce diarrhea and gas like you wouldn't believe. My husband went through it when he quit smoking, and so did I. You're better off with regular sugar in your candies (a few more calories but less indigestion).

[colbertforpresident]

87. Toxic

http://www.sweetpoison.com/aspartame-side-effects.html

i have lyme disease and when I ingest this stuff I become sick. It's toxic!

[ozone_man]

88. What we know or what we believe?

"Tell me what you know of Aspartame."

There is a difference. There are those who have beliefs in God and those who have beliefs that aspartame is poison. Knowledge is much harder to come by. I am a skeptic when it comes to believing that aspartame is a poison. Show me the results of double blind tests and perhaps I will become a believer. :)

[youthere]

93. I wouldn't go so far as to call it actual "poison"...

like arsenic...but I try to avoid it, along with any other "food" item created in a lab. Can't do it 100% of the time but I try.

[Lorien]

98. One name: Rumsfeld

the man that Henry Kissinger called "the most ruthless person I've ever encountered" is the man who helped push aspartame through the FDA without adequate testing. They saw the potential for profit and that was ALL that was important. Aspartame is illegal in some countries because testing there has concluded that it is unsafe for human consumption. For more information on the topic, watch the documentary "Sweet Misery". It's available through Netflix.

[Tesha]

104. Just so I'm clear on this: In what countries is it "Illegal"?

> Aspartame is illegal in some countries because testing there
> has concluded that it is unsafe for human consumption.

What countries?

Tesha

[Lorien]

114. The Philippines, for starters:

http://www.wnho.net/philippines_ban_aspartame.htm

0 August 2004

Official emblem: Ministry of Industry, Tourism and Commerce (Spain)

Philippines forbids the import and use of aspartame

A law promulgated by the Philippine congress has forbidden the importing and use, in the country, of aspartame, a sweetener that is between 180 to 200 times more potent than sugar, as well as banning distribution of four makes of saccharine, the most important brand names in the country known as: Equal, NutraSweet, Equal-Measure y Spoonful.<*> According to the said Law aspartame gives rise to a total of 75% of the negative effects reflected in consumers and other users according to the north American administration of food and alimentation, among others, brain tumours, multiple sclerosis, epilepsy, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Parkinsons, Alzheimers and diabetes among others. The ban affects all use of this product in any type of consumable and infringement will carry penalties that go from 9,000 euros to 90,000 euros.

Spanish Institute of External Commerce (ICEX). Paseo de la Castellana 14-16, 28046 MADRID. | 902 34

Efforts have been made to ban aspartame use in the UK, where it is already banned from use in children's products:

MP calls for ban on 'unsafe' sweetener


Felicity Lawrence, consumer affairs correspondent
Thursday December 15, 2005
The Guardian

A member of the parliamentary select committee on food and the environment yesterday called for emergency action to ban the artificial sweetener aspartame, used in 6,000 food, drink and medicinal products.

The Liberal Democrat MP Roger Williams said in an adjournment debate in the Commons that there was "compelling and reliable evidence for this carcinogenic substance to be banned from the UK food and drinks market altogether". In licensing aspartame for use, regulators around the world had failed in their main task of protecting the public, he told MPs.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/food/Story/0,2763,1667734,00.html

[Tesha]

124. According to the Philippine Senate web site, the status of that act is...

According to the Philippine Senate web site, the status of
that act is "Pending in Committee" as of 10/24/2005:

http://www.senate.gov.ph/lis/bill_res.aspx?congress=13&q=SBN-2147

You shouldn't believe everything you read on the Internet,
especially when the source site has an obvious bias.

So, got any countries where it has *ACTUALLY BEEN BANNED*
or is it all just hopeful "talk of banning"?

Tesha

[Raine]

101. Poison

HORRID stuff, absolutely poison.

[cgrindley]

108. Let's have a parade for pseudo-science nonsense

yay! let's have a march! will someone please paint some signs?

[slowry]

116. Don't know the science behind it, but based on numerous good-faith trials on myself...

it gives me headaches and makes me crave "real" sweetness. Tastes like garbage. Conclusion: poison to me.