Debate on Child Pornography’s Link to Molesting

[MagickMuffin]

Experts have often wondered what proportion of men who download explicit sexual images of children also molest them. A new government study of convicted Internet offenders suggests that the number may be startlingly high: 85 percent of the offenders said they had committed acts of sexual abuse against minors, from inappropriate touching to rape.

The study, which has not yet been published, is stirring a vehement debate among psychologists, law enforcement officers and prison officials, who cannot agree on how the findings should be presented or interpreted.

The research, carried out by psychologists at the Federal Bureau of Prisons, is the first in-depth survey of such online offenders’ sexual behavior done by prison therapists who were actively performing treatment. Its findings have circulated privately among experts, who say they could have enormous implications for public safety and law enforcement.

Traffic in online child pornography has exploded in recent years, and the new study, some experts say, should be made public as soon as possible, to identify men who claim to be “just looking at pictures” but could, in fact, be predators.

Yet others say that the results, while significant, risk tarring some men unfairly. The findings, based on offenders serving prison time who volunteered for the study, do not necessarily apply to the large and diverse group of adults who have at some point downloaded child pornography, and whose behavior is far too variable to be captured by a single survey.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/19/us/19sex.html?ei=5088&en=d4261d44378419aa&ex=1342497600&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&pagewanted=print

These are the perv's who should be exposed. They are the ones who need to be tracked. But of course NOT for infotainment purposes.

[Katherine Brengle]

1. I actually commented on the entertainment aspect of the Dateline shows

last night to my husband. There was a moment in the broadcast that was so ridiculous that it made me laugh, and then I got really upset bc there is nothing, absolutely nothing, amusing about the reality of what these people do or WANT to do to children.

If they are going to have these shows, I think they need to be handled with a lot more respect and sobriety.

I support bringing these people in by whatever methods are legal and available, but it shouldn't be fun to watch.

[cutlassmama]

2. the guy laying on floor saying he felt sick was the funniest n/t

[mzmolly]

3. I agree. It's become "entertainment" and that's disgusting in and of itself.

I can't even watch the show personally.

[MagickMuffin]

8. If you're referring To Catch a Predator then that is totally different than this article

The above mentioned show is done by a group of people who ARE MAKING MONEY off their sting ops.

I've only seen the show once and knew this was meant as a way to boost the networks ratings, all the while destroying people's lives in the process.

I couple of the threads I started explaining the harm done by this show.....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1375616&mesg_id=1375616

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1378540&mesg_id=1378540

[mzmolly]

4. "risk tarring some men unfairly."

My ass. Downloading this shit is a crime and in and of itself - is victimizing children.

[RaleighNCDUer]

7. Isn't it possible, though, for someone to be searching for something

he likes and link into the child porn by accident? I've never stumbled across it, myself, so I don't know how likely it is - but if the site is a 'sting' site, and anyone who clicks on is liable for prosecution, I'd call that unfair.

I also note that the sample group was of offenders in prison, which I should think might skew the results. There may be any number who are sick enough to view this shit, but would never actually do anything.

[Zywiec]

9. Don't search for a hot buns or sticky buns recipe... n/t

[Rosemary2205]

16. LOL

Back in the old days before google I searched for "nursing scrubs" to buy a gift for a friend and ended up with 100's of hits for XXX sites of "naked nurses". Fortunately by the blurb you could tell it was one of those places and I didn't actually visit the sites.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

11. Happens somewhat often.

There was a counterculture drug board I used to take a look at from time to time. They got in a big feud with a white supremacist board and somebody posted some child pornography images on the drug board apparently while the moderator was away for the weekend or something. The site got taken down by the provider, I'm assuming they were reported to the authorities. The good news is they were back up a week or so later. I guess the authorities went after the guy who originally posted the child pornography, and not the guy who owned the board, or the people who were reading the board.

[mzmolly]

20. Sure, that is possible. But, this article wasn't addressing that.

:hi:

[undergroundpanther]

22. Where do the pictures come from

They are taken in A crime scene.So even if this pedophile who does nothing ,he is a criminal because he helps a criminal industry because of WHAT he desires.

A pedophile is addicted to his own fantasies and he looks to find a better "high" like a crack addict or a a person who fantasizes about being a killer.People addicted to Fantasies are not realizing that fantasy is supplanting reality and their judgment
He may only have these fantasies in his head today but soon his imagination will not get him off anymore he needs tangibility to the fantasy and he seeks porn, after porn fails to be real enough he seeks to"fulfill" that fantasy. Than a kid is hurt for life..

What bothers me is so many people forget every thought in your head does not have to be entertained.Every fantasy does not have to be fed with attention until it becomes obsession than an addiction and then manifested in reality does it? Discretion in the form of internal self control is what keeps you sane with fantasy and keeps you from hurting people with your desires.

Thought control is an INTERNAL process,first..if that internal process is not checked by your own disgust or a conscience than OUTSIDE control must be imposed on you lest your desires hurt someone ,if that fails and it is something that wounds like pedophilia,than outside control is difficult,The next option is to kill them and kill their out of control addiction to their desires with their body.

Now arresting people because computer savvy perverts on line exploit the web's openness to peddle their sickness and hide it on innocent people's computers?..That is not right.I think there needs to be consideration of this problem in cases of computer porn.Because if these assholes invade email with child porn spam, or put links to their shit on sites not even connected to porn they need to be stopped. NOW.By technology or a sting or effective tracking.And Law enforcement better wise up fast to who accidentally got their computer contaminated and who the real monsters ARE if they fail to do this the anger at the innocents may let the perverts get away with more crimes against kids.

[Rosemary2205]

5. TECHNICALLY "I've" downloaded child porn

I visited a football forum 7 years ago and ended up with 4 popups full of child porn sites. Installing a free popup blocker took care of ever having anything like that happening again but it's not possible to get every trace out of my computer. If GW decided to send the goons to my house because I was anti-Iraq war and confiscate my computer and the news reported my computer had traces of child porn in it then I'd be branded forever. Since I am a former foster parent the cheese would definately hit the fan.


What I'm saying is, as disgusting as child porn and child abuse is, we need to be careful about tarring anyone and everyone. Once an accusation is made the accused is forever branded and there's no way to take it back. There's other crimes people can recover from when falsely accused, but messing with kids isn't one of them.

[Katherine Brengle]

6. There is a huge difference btwn being on a receiving end of an unwanted popup ad

and having MBs or GBs of exploitative pornography in your computer.

I find it hard to believe that someone in your situation would have even seen a courtroom, or been pursued at any length by law enforcement.

[Rosemary2205]

13. It's odd what they try to prosecute.

My state put a teenager in jail for 10 years for getting a blow job from his girl friend that was 1 yr younger. He'll on the sex offender list for life. They are also trying to figure out which of the teenagers put the video of themselves on the internet and plan to prosecute them under child porn laws.

About 5 years ago there was a big local story about a mom who took pics of her brand new baby in to be developed at Walmart and the processor saw a couple pics of dear dad changing the newborn's diapers. Walmart called the police and the child was taken from the family for a full 6 months while it was being "investigated" and dropped. The news was slapped full of "this couple are child pornographers/molesters" for months. They lost the first 6 months of the child's life, ended up in bankruptcy and moved way across the country for a fresh start.


You'll find no bigger advocate for children than I. But when the charge involves children, law enforcement and the general public have been known to get it all wrong.

Edit to add -- yes you are right, these cases have nothing to do with those sick fucks with a computer full of child porn. But innocent people do see the insides of a courtroom quite often in our zealous pursuit of the real criminals. Which is why I so strongly advocate being careful about flapping the tar brush around.

[mainegreen]

10. What do you use to prove someone is downloading child porn?

I mean really prove it?
Credit Card? England proved you can't do that.
IP address? In this day and age? Doubt it.

You'd have to get a remote exploit on the suspects computer and monitor their activities for a while, and then seize the physical computer from the suspects residence.
Of course, the government isn't really going to try and investigate that you downloaded the child porn and not your computer. Hell, I think many in law enforcement would have a hard time understanding that there is a difference: in the first case you're guilty, in the second not only are you innocent, but yourself are the victim of a heinous crime.

Efforts really should be focused on going after the distributors and not the consumers.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

15. I Suspect They Would Find It On Your Hard Drive

Then your only defense is somebody else was using my computer...

[mainegreen]

17. Or that you're computer is a bot (slave) being used to push child porn.

More computers have been turned into bots than people like to admit.
All it takes is for you to be slightly behind in installing patches and visiting the wrong site, or a site that has been infected and blammo, you are now distributing and downloading child porn without your knowledge.
If you want to know how prevalent this is, just think that most spam is generated this way.

[pitohui]

23. yes these bots are becoming more and more common

why would anybody who was into something illegal store it on their own computer, when they could store it remotely or better yet on the computer of an enemy

the victim then faces the choice of pleading quilty to get a "deal" or having their whole life taken away

meanwhile the real producers skate free

as mainegreen says, most spam is sent this way, and most people never know their computer has been used

[DemocratSinceBirth]

12. A University Professor Had One Hundred Child Prnography Pictures On His Work Computer...

What blows me away is that UCF is one of my alma matas and I have a M A in Poli Sci from there and he is a Poli Sci professor...

Just shows there's not always a positive relationship between intelligence and justice...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

14. Link

University of Central Florida Assistant Professor Michael Shawn Reichert (left) listens to his attorney, Hugh McDonnell, during a first appearance hearing at the Orange County jail on Tuesday after being arrested on child pornography charges


Walter Pacheco and Willoughby Mariano | Sentinel Staff Writers
July 17, 2007
Article Tools
E-mail Print Single page view Reprints Reader feedback text size: The University of Central Florida professor arrested on child pornography charges returns to court tomorrow after a judge this morning asked for more documentation.

Assistant Professor Michael Shawn Reichert, 37, was arrested Monday after police discovered more than 100 child-pornography pictures on his work computer.

Reichert's attorney asked the judge to lower his bail to $69,000. He is being held on $138,000 bail for the 138 felony counts of possession of material depicting sexual performance of a child

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/education/orl-ucf1707jul17,0,3241182.story?coll=orl_tab02_layout

[undergroundpanther]

18. Child predators..

I think child predators should be executed if they are convicted.. But on the other hand as it is now I don't think the state is capable of executing people justly.Many innocents are on death row and I am aware of this.Too much crime is at the heads of states and too much dirt in law enforcement. I don't trust justice to be just as things are now.


But on the other hand pedophiles see nothing bad in what they do. Until they get a conscience, they will hurt kids. I don't think many people without a conscience just grow one out of nothing.
They may FAKE having one to get out of jail. But who after they are free bothers to watch what they do every moment when they believe no one sees them doing crimes or soliciting teens for sex, on line.

To catch a predator for all it's entertainment sickness, is doing a service our law enforcement fails at.Catching predators. Dateline is with the camera and a sting, demonstrating the INTENT of these men for ALL to see. That is the real test of who these predators are,what do predators do when they think the COPS and parents or adults who find their activities harmful are not watching them...To catch a predator makes this point clear.Give a pedophile the illusion of nobody's watching them ,and their INTENTS show, exactly what they want to do.And if that intent is exposed in a TV show..Why should that erase the FACT the person being humiliated on TV Wanted to have sex with a teen,BELIEVED they were, DID meet up with a teen for sex. He sought to chat, told the teen what he wanted,to do and he did act upon the INTENTION to have sex with a teenager.

The acting upon the intent to do a crime is a still a CRIME! Whether it's caught on TV or by a police sting not on TV ,Caught by a pissed off parent, or not even caught by anyone but the victim..IT is still a CRIME and the perpetrator wanted and intended to commit the crime and desired to get away with a crime.


If a pedophile cannot be cured of his destructive fetish what do you do with them? .How can you catch them and stop them when law enforcement can't even catch Michael Jackson.When even after the trial the jury thought he was GUILTY but failed to convict based on a techinicality of WORDS!!..Talk about a failure of justice.. Pedophiles are master manipulators. After they get caught,what do you do? Who can be a one on one guard to monitor every pervert 24 hours a day,to make sure they aren't sneaking sex with a Minor?What do you do with these dangerous destructive untrustworthy people??

Lock them up forever and admit these people will not change? Alot of people abhor that idea they like to believe anyone can change but reality does not support that utopian fantasy/hope. Many do not understand the nature of this beast. How are we gonna pay for all of their food housing health care, these people who cannot be trusted with their own freedom or privacy??
I don't want a pedophile getting better health care than the millions of innocent people here.

What do we do? Now. Sure we can Change the culture maybe it can help but it is not a solution I trust that will keep kids be safe.When porn was restricted to shady places and everyone believed child rape was "rare" kids still got raped but because of the cultural denial the victims did not come forward and they often got no help. And everyone had the illusion child rape and abuse was rare the perpetrators could get away,
Everything was peachy in appearance only..

But the truth came out.And the criminals hate having to be careful and change their tactics it shows they are not in control..The predators of children RESENT the fact alot of parents do not want their sons and daughters raped by selfish adults who want them only because they have a sick fantasy in their heads they INTEND to act out on their child and leave the child like a used condom and pretend like NOTHING happened.

To catch a predator exposes all that behind the scenes manipulation and yeah it is ugly.As a culture we have to face the monsters among us and stop them in any way that works..That's part of becoming a mature culture and if law enforcement is not able to do the job,and the courts are corrupt(think OJ and Michael Jackson).. How do we get justice if the system is full of perverts or bystanders unwilling to protect the younger from the older until a camera got involved?
http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/09/republican_pedo.html
http://freewayblogger.blogspot.com/2006/04/gop-gods-own-pedophiles.html

I say GET a camera involved.
As for child porn, it is EVERYWHERE in our culture,just not explicitly so.It is hinted at.

Go to a little girls clothes section, and there they have clothes with symbolic sexual icons on them ,short shorts with cherries..for instance.Why? I had to get clothes for my niece and I was disgusted by what I saw there, If I bought some of that shit she'd look like a mini streetwalker.. This is a sick thing, maybe somebody in the marketing department making kids clothes somewhere thought it would be cute to sexualize kids clothes. And don't try to tell me a pedophile isn't noticing this hint that clothes manufacturers are doing in their marketing departments aimed at kids .Because if they are sick enough to be convicted of harming a kid sexually they know.And if they have that kind of fixation they like it.. Pedophilia has no cure and it is not only because our culture is sick.If the pedophile sees no reason within himself to change he won't change. But he can appear to,and play the parole game to get out. So what do you do with them.Can't let them go,can't kill them.

If you add in the effects of the the growth hormones in milk.The effects further blur the line of what is an adult,or a child. Sadly kids as young as 8 are getting breasts and periods, now but they still are as mature as 8 year olds trapped in adult bodies. And any adult hooked on a fantasy can tell themselves she's an adult she's got pubes..
How do you solve the pedophile issue,seems like our culture's answer and marketing's answer is make them appear like adults and blur the physical distinctions between child-adult until the lines are so blurred that outside observers think a crime like adults seeking teens for sex is NORMAL..


But he never stops rationalizing his selfishness,he does it anyway he likes the idea her mental capacity still 8 years old.This is another aspect that older adults impose when they sexually abuse teens and kids.. This terrible imbalance of power,that is WRONG for an adult looking to get himself off has over a child.And adult is just using the child as a prop for a fantasy in his head...




Girls gone wild commercials are on comedy central. Those videos make alot of money.I was once doing art and I had paper mache and I could not turn the channel, without getting glue all over everything and messing up my art. They peddle porn on TV.After a few minutes when my project was stabilized so It wouldn't fall over as I turned the channel and I felt anger over it.Because of the hurt this shit inflicts on girls who deep down feel like nobodies. There are people who will defend porn and say it has NO connection to rape or pedophilia, you know.And I disagree with them.Making love happened way before porn existed.Porn has no purpose but to feed an addiction to fantasies.

I think porn works by instigating sexual fantasies that are unrealistic but addictive,the fantasies are fed by viewing porn and make believe.Make believe has more appeal than real life when reality is painful to live.As the fantasy turns into an escape it gets addictive, than it becomes a fixation it must be fed like an addict wants a drug, It all is to suppress emotional pain,and deny it...to run away rather than work through it,as reality is painful. So the fixation like a drug addicted crack head,seeks bigger rocks for the"ultimate high" the porn addict seeks more and more racy, violent,perverse, and disgusting shocking, and forbidden porn, until acting it out is the only way to 'fulfill'' it.

Marquis De Sade wrote about what happens to a person when the feelings of pleasure is exhausted by over indulgence..Than pain and cruelty domination and such is the only way to feel pleasure again..and when pleasure by pain is exhausted, blandness is the new novel pleasure..

People that believe any fantasy in the head is ok miss the point of self discretion. Just because a fantasy becomes a fixation does not mean should be acted on. Some fantasies are better forgotten, or kept to oneself locked in the head and left unfed' so it will go away from lack of attention. You do not have to entertain every thought in your head and certainly you do not have to manifest every idea in real life...
Some people blur the lines between their own fantasies and realities of what living that fantasy may cost.

To catch a predator shows the cost of a fantasy to these guys who never considered cost to themselves or anyone else or they didn't consider the risk cost and harm done to be real enough to let go of a fantasy fixation before they walked into that house.

And I know there will be people who disagree with me and I bet these people if you observed them,unwatched..Do value their own fantasies more than they will consider what the market that has exploited feeding their fantasies harms others in human costs...They don't want to think about how the porn INDUSTRY harms people. Too much empathy for an objectified human being makes reality intrude and it fucks up the fantasy I guess.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

19. I Have Been Railing Against Predators All Day But Killin Em Seems Harsh

They are sick and they are evil but is the evil caused by the sickness and if it is they need banishment more than punishment...

[undergroundpanther]

21. You..

Think killing a pedophile is to HARSH??
Let me tell you about harsh,I faced harsh and I did not hurt anyone..Just being
raped by a pedophile as a kid ruined my life. A man who earned my trust, exploited my emotional pain and bad home, and used my longing to be protected and valued , That soert of perverse betrayal and the congnitive dissonance it makes hurts worse than death. I internalized self blame that pedophiles cause when they threaten a child to keep quiet, that sets off time bombs in the unconscious that explode later and fuck up your mind..Look death would be a mercy compared to the PAIN the damage feeling this trauma does to a person hurt by one of these creeps. Why do you think I tried to kill myself for?


Death does not have to include torture.Killing does not have to be wrong.But letting someone who tortures kids free under the illusion he has reformed IS wrong.

The trauma inflicted on me by the pervert has been torture. The pain in my mind and heart has made me try to kill myself for years has been MORE torture . The effects of what he did has fucked up my relationships,
until just being in a relationship feels torturous. It has twisted everything into pain.I just wait for death to take me out of this awful world..The attempts to"cure me" were torture too..I spent 18 months in solitary confinement, sometimes in in leather restraints or wrapped in ice cold sheets strapped to a table stuff you'd see at an S/M bar..I was drugged up until I could barely move,in a mental hospital..Why? Torture it out of me? Torture me until I forget?

This "help" hurt me because the trauma this pedophile asshole did to me made me mentally injured bad enough to ruin my mind and the psych system at that time did not want to admit trauma is real,and child abuse can damage a person that bad.I was misdiagnosed schizophrenic,the drugs did nothing because trauma was my problem. For YEARS I was treated like a criminal for my own good,yet it was NOT I who raped a little girl.

And what became of the pedophile.He faced NOTHING.
He left with his reputation untarnished.
Because I was too terrified he would kill my family, my pets and ruin my life if I dared to tell.

It took me a long time to heal. I was carrying shame and disgust and aiming it at myself, that was not MINE,or MY FAULT for years. I was tongue tied by fear that was his coercion time bomb left inside me that made me too scared to say it to anyone until years after wards.Even though I never forgot..

I think Death to a pedophile is just.

Why because of the damage and hurt they CAUSE and CHOOSE to do to kids,kids who's lives may very well be shattered because of it.
Like mine was.I am 40 I never grew up like other kids.I never had a chance to live.And yeah I am angry and hurt and because I know first hand the damage these monsters do, I have no pity for psychopaths or pedophiles.I hate them.I want them to stop and they exploit mercy so that they can get away with it again and alot of people don't GET that.

I'd rather see the victims of these monsters get the tax money that's invested in housing and containing pedophiles in jail spent on helping victims heal and to support the broken ones, so THEY might have a chance.

The pedophile and psychopaths have already blown their chance to be trusted among others by what they did and their unwillingness to change themselves. Either make sure they will be unable to harm, or Kill them. Making them unable to harm has not been effective because people are manipulatable.Kill them so they do not spread more trauma with their "desires" they think are not wrong that they refuse to stop doing.