"What civil liberties have been lost to the average citizen? Provide a list who have

[mistertrickster]

lost these libeties?"

Asks a reich-wing jerk on a local discussion board.

I remember some DUers had good examples of exactly how BushCo's "war on terra" martial laws were impacting ordinary law-abiding citizens.

Can somebody link me to those posts?

[pwb]

1. Oversight of the executive branch?

Oversight of spending?
Oversight of the military(mercenaries like blackwater)?.

[zbdent]

2. Funny ... they never proved that Clinton caused this country to fall to Communism

or a recession ... or THEIR civil liberties to be infringed ... but that never stopped them from claiming that ...

[baldguy]

3. Anyone who's been corralled a "free speech zone" to protect His Majesty's ears from dissent

Anyone who's been pulled aside at the airport because of what they are reading or wearing, or what they say.

Anyone who's been harassed by the police because of what they are reading or wearing, or what they say.

Anyone who's been wiretapped, had their mail & bank records read because of what they are reading or wearing, or what they say.

Anyone who's been called up for active duty, who's been stop-lossed, been forced to participate in an illegal war, who've had their tours extended indefinitely resulting in the loss of their jobs, homes & family.

Then there's the million people Bush has murdered.

[Warren Stupidity]

4. Travelled recently? nt.

[Lars39]

5. Here ya go:

Overview of Changes to Legal Rights
The Associated Press
September 5, 2002

Some of the fundamental changes to Americans' legal rights by the Bush administration and the USA Patriot Act following the terror attacks:

* FREEDOM OF ASSOCIATION: Government may monitor religious and political institutions without suspecting criminal activity to assist terror investigation.

* FREEDOM OF INFORMATION: Government has closed once-public immigration hearings, has secretly detained hundreds of people without charges, and has encouraged bureaucrats to resist public records requests.

* FREEDOM OF SPEECH: Government may prosecute librarians or keepers of any other records if they tell anyone that the government subpoenaed information related to a terror investigation.

* RIGHT TO LEGAL REPRESENTATION: Government may monitor federal prison jailhouse conversations between attorneys and clients, and deny lawyers to Americans accused of crimes.

* FREEDOM FROM UNREASONABLE SEARCHES: Government may search and seize Americans' papers and effects without probable cause to assist terror investigation.

* RIGHT TO A SPEEDY AND PUBLIC TRIAL: Government may jail Americans indefinitely without a trial.

* RIGHT TO LIBERTY: Americans may be jailed without being charged or being able to confront witnesses against them.

[Cerridwen]

6. That is a straw man argument - some examples for you on

how to address.


My house is not currently on fire so I have no need right this minute for the local fire department, but I don't want the local fire department shut down because I have no need of it right now. What if a time comes when I do need it? I'd like to know it's there for me should I need it; and because I'm a compassionate person, I'd also like it available right now for those who may, in fact, need it right now.

Right this moment, I have no need for an ambulance or the emergency room of a hospital. Should they then shut down all ambulance services and emergency rooms because *I* am not in need of one right this moment? See previous about compassion and see following about available for use as needed.

Civil rights are not something we need access to every moment of every day; they are there for us during those times when we do, in fact, need them right now.

It's not a matter of what have you lost that you are not currently using; it's a matter of, what will you use should the need arise.

[mistertrickster]

7. Thanks for your many good ideas.

There's also this:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/03/AR2005120301476_pf.html

Coats informed the German minister that the CIA had wrongfully imprisoned one of its citizens, Khaled Masri, for five months, and would soon release him, the sources said. There was also a request: that the German government not disclose what it had been told even if Masri went public. The U.S. officials feared exposure of a covert action program designed to capture terrorism suspects abroad and transfer them among countries, and possible legal challenges to the CIA from Masri and others with similar allegations.

Meanwhile, a German prosecutor continues to work Masri's case. A Macedonia bus driver has confirmed that Masri was taken away by border guards on the date he gave investigators. A forensic analysis of Masri's hair showed he was malnourished during the period he says he was in the prison. Flight logs show a plane registered to a CIA front company flew out of Macedonia on the day Masri says he went to Afghanistan.

Masri can find few words to explain his ordeal. "I have very bad feelings" about the United States, he said. "I think it's just like in the Arab countries: arresting people, treating them inhumanly and less than that, and with no rights and no laws."