Hummer vandalism a 'Hate Crime"

[MsMagnificent]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/17/AR2007071701808.html

"Fremaux said of the bat-wielding men who struck out at the Hummer. "I consider this a hate crime."


I'm not for the deed -- it was pointless and destructive, but:


Beating up a Hummer is on a par with attacking a human being because of their race, theology, ideology or sexual persuasion?!
Oh! The Hummeranity!
(Sorry, couldn't resist : )

Jeebus tap-dancing Kee-rist, are they going to want to marry their Hummers now? And put that in the Constitution?

I'm back and forth in turn between :rofl:, :eyes: and :puke:

[ReadTomPaine]

1. This guy gives Phil Parlock a run for his money. n/t

[karlrschneider]

11. That was my instantaneous thought too! I think I even said so the other day

in another thread.
:eyes:

[Peregrine Took]

15. Brilliant! I bet this dude, who lives with his mom, soon becomes a huge hero

to the "sub zero" freepers in freeperville.

[C_U_L8R]

2. It's hard out there for a 'puke

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

5. Try Opening Your Mind A Bit. Just A Little. I Promise It Won't Hurt.

When you do, you might realize that it's far more likely the woman in the quote was a Democrat...

[rockymountaindem]

6. It's still an idiotic quote n/t

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

8. Was An Idiotic Stereotyping Attempt Too.

[rockymountaindem]

12. Tough call

On the one hand, most people who drive Hummers can probably be assumed to not be Democrats or liberals.

OTOH, most conservatives hate to talk about hate crimes.

[Jed Dilligan]

28. They love to turn it around though,

any criticism of religion becomes "hate speech," affirmative action "racism," etc. Remember when Gingrich (I think) said the worst form of discrimination is discrimination against "successful people"?

[C_U_L8R]

14. geez lighten up pal

i was just singin' a song.

it's friday... here have a beer :toast:

[Jed Dilligan]

16. When her IQ is below that of a cuke...

I tried

[maggiegault]

3. My brother was killed in a Humvee by an IED over in Iraq. THAT is a hate crime.

[angstlessk]

9. Agree..THAT is a hate crime...sorry for your loss...your baby brother

though I know he was not a baby....he will be always in your eyes. :cry:

[IChing]

10. I am so sorry........for your loss

END THE WAR NOW

[Canuckistanian]

4. It IS a substitute for a part of their anatomy

He figured it was an attack on adequacy-challenged men everywhere.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

7. Just A Quick Curiosity:

Are hate crimes those done against humans only or are they sometimes classified due to attacks on property? I only ask cause you said this so factually and boldly:

"Beating up a Hummer is on a par with attacking a human being because of their race, theology, ideology or sexual persuasion?! "

Can't say you're using the correct analogy there.

I don't agree with the woman that this would fit the classic definition of a hate crime, but I also can understand why she stated her opinion that way.

[noamnety]

17. If he actually perceives his hummer to be his identity

Than he may perceive it as a hate crime, I suppose.

Most of us actually have an identity separate from our consumer purchases - even if we really really like them. Stealing your Nike sneakers - not a hate crime. Attacking you because you are a muslim, that's a hate crime. Hope that helps, for those who are confused by the nuanced differences between people and material objects.

[lynnertic]

18. I think you have the best argument.

Beating on the Hummer is vandalism. Beating on a Hummer-driver is a hate crime.

[darmok167]

22. Burning someone's house is just arson, then?

Even if the act was done simply because they were African American or were homosexual?

[MsMagnificent]

27. Isn't the question

whether the Hate Crime was directed against the person --if so it would be a Hate Crime--
or the object?

The (easiest to get atm, from Wiki) definition of Hate Crime is:
"Hate crimes (also known as bias crimes) are crimes motivated by bias against an identifiable social group, usually groups defined by race, religion, sexual orientation, disability, ethnicity, nationality, age, gender, gender identity, or political affiliation."

I'd say the focus was the Hummer, that is what was hated; not the man.
Was it 'beaten' because the owner was a 32-year-old man who lived with his mom (in her basement? :) or was it because it itself is a blatant object of disregard, nay disdain for the environment?

IMO the owner was not targeted, merely the object. The object does not nor can it belong in a social group, nor race, religion, sexual orientation, disability, ethnicity, nationality, age (n/a), gender, gender identity or political affiliation; therefore I'd have to say that this is not a hate crime.


edit for clarity

[darmok167]

29. Yes, but...

I have a hard time believing that someone out there just hates Hummers for no reason. The hummer would be a representation of a set of beliefs that the person who vandalized it had a serious problem with. Thus, the reason for vandalizing the Hummer was because of the perceived notion of what the owner believed and the vandal disagreed with so strongly.

Did the vandal know the owner? Probably not, but the crime was still committed against the owner of the hummer rather than the hummer itself because really, does the hummer care if it gets vandalized or not?

[MsMagnificent]

31. No reason?!

Those seven-foot-tall monstrosities denote nothing but ostentatious consumption and, as I already said, disregard and disdain for and, very possibly, outright aggression, against the environment
and by extension, all life -- human and otherwise.
They serve no other purpose that any other vehicle can provide other than being BIGGER and therefore to some, 'BADDER'.

Hummers -- those preposterous, wasteful, egregious, pointless vehicles remind me noting so much as of The Yes Men's 'Big Dick Suit'.
These mere mechanical objects engender a lot of hate, especially in these times where our existence is directly threatened by what they 'contribute' to pollution, excess and global warming.

I despise Hummers myself.
Big surprise there, eh? :D

However I do NOT hate their owners! I may disapprove of their purchase, but I don't hate them.
And I certainly have enough regard for one's freedom to choose, and respect for personal property, to ensure I'd never vandalize one.
The proper action in these types of cases would be to educate these buyers --talk to them!-- to make them see how wasteful and ridiculous their choice is.
Heck, convince them Enzyite is the way to go if they need that kind of boost so badly! :eyes:


But let's say for the sake of argument that you're right -- that "crime was still committed against the owner of the hummer rather than the hummer itself"

That would make it a Hate Crime?!

Sorry to disagree -- but it's absurd, and truthfully when the Hummer incident is included with actual Hate Crimes the entire horrific meaning is diminished. It holds absolutely no comparison to what Matthew Shepard, Brandon Teena, Billy Jack Gaither, James Byrd, Emmett Till, and countless others have undergone.
None whatsoever.

It is downright insulting.

I feel sorry for anyone who would dare say to the families of any of the above mentioned or referred to victims that bashing a Hummer is a Hate Crime.
Truly I do, because they're going to be on the receiving end of a bit of righteous justified outrage themselves.


And what does it matter that the Hummer 'doesn't care if it gets hurt'?
It's a representative object. For the act to be effective (or at least satisfactory to the perpetrators) it --nor the owner-- needs not feelings. The vandalism of what they view as an abomination is their target here.

The vandalism, like the disabling the U.S. rendition transports which were parked in England's airfields, is instead a moral, ethical &/or political statement. The British took their stand, however misguided or wrong. I do not believe the citizens of the U.K. were committing a hate crime against Americans, they were vandalizing what to them stood and enabled a monstrous horror and objected that such things were on their land.
It's interesting to note the British courts dismissed their vandalism suit, saying what the people were exercising their free speech!

Understand, I'm not advocating either. I'm for non-violent peaceful resistance over destruction any day; yet I can't help but understand to a certain extent the wish to act upon the object of their abhorrence; and recognize as real --without excusing it-- our sadly innate, all-too-human nature with its propensity
--however wrong--
for primitive destruction when one feels conscientiously right.

[PDJane]

20. I am tempted to think of it as a public service......

Except the owner will inevitably go out and purchase something even larger, more useless and entirely ostentatious.

[MsMagnificent]

21. While property attacks can be OF hate

an actual Hate Crime, to me, as defined would be against a human being.

So no, I still feel that beating up a Hummer is not a Hate Crime.


edit: qualification in italics

[othermeans]

32. What about cross-burning? nt

[Jed Dilligan]

13. Didn't you get the memo?

All property crime is hate crime by the poor against the rich. Petty criminals should receive stiffer sentences because they take business away from corporate criminals.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[piedmont]

23. Well, I suppose owning and operating the goddamn thing pretty well espouses one's ideology...

which is "FUCK YOU!" And I might guess that such owner/operators are worshipers in the Cult of Conspicuous Consumption.

So yeah, I can see where the crime is one motivated by hatred of ideology or theology.

[Sanctified]

24. Technically if you are targetting a specific members of a community for your crime

you are committing a hate crime. The reason we have hate crime legislation is not because a particular race, theology, ideology or sexual persuasion needs more protection than another but because we need to protect the community of the particular race, theology, ideology or sexual persuasion as a whole. Hate crimes do not just affect the individual but their entire community which is why they are so heinous.

[mudesi]

25. This story is a biased conservative propaganda piece

Don't fall for this obviously slanted piece of "journalism". The purpose of this article is to demonize the word "liberal" some more.

[TheCowsCameHome]

26. If vandalizing someones dick is a hate crime, then it qualifies.

That's what a Hummer is all about - an extension of the owners manhood, or lack of it.

[Alexander]

30. Yeah, some DUers here will believe garbage like that.

And they seem to be the ones who like to pick fights with me on issues where we essentially agree. :eyes: