Dear Dianne Feinstein ------ > THERE IS MORE THAN ENOUGH TIME TO FIX U.S. DEMOCRACY

[althecat]

------ > THERE IS MORE THAN ENOUGH TIME TO FIX U.S. DEMOCRACY <--------

OPEN LETTER TO SENATOR DIANNE FEINSTEIN

Senator Dianne Feinstein, Democrat of California and the chairwoman of the Senate Rules Committee, said she had already decided against seeking any major changes in voting equipment before 2010.

“My sense is there’s no way to get this thing in place by the election of 2008,” Ms. Feinstein said. “Without adequate time, we could cause real problems in the election.”

---- NYT: Overhaul Plan for Vote System Will Be Delayed - Friday 20 July 2007.

Dear Dianne,

The idea that the self-proclaimed "greatest democracy in the world" is unable to prepare to hold a "legitimate" election by November 2008 fifteen and a half months out from the day is one of the most appalling assertions I have had the misfortune to hear uttered by any politician period.

It is absolutely extraordinary that this remark should be made from someone who is clearly in the wing of the Democratic party most sympathetic to the need to fix the US Democracy apparatus.

Your colleague from Califoria Barbara Boxer's brave challenge to the 2004 election result is one of the defining moments of recent American political history, as was Senate's failure to challenge the 2000 result highlighted in Fahrenheit 911.

If you and your colleagues hold to this opinion and simply give up on US Democracy more than 15 months out from one of the most important elections in history - then today will become another defining moment.

If your opinion is based on advice from Democratic Party officials and campaign chairs then that advice is flawed and those officials and campaign chairs should be directed to adopt an open mind to the IMPORTANCE OF ENSURING A VALID LEGITIMATE VOTE COUNT.

If your opinion is based on advice from lobbyists you should ask them if they think ENSURING A VALID LEGITIMATE VOTE COUNT is an overarching requirement for democracy to function.

If they respond in anything other than the affirmative you should not listen to a word they say as they are clearly ABJECT MORONS. This is no longer a question of political practicality, pork and hypothetical threats.

The US voting public are losing faith in US Democracy. If these votes hear a message from the people charged with protecting it at the highest level that 16 months is not long enough to prepare to hold A VALID LEGITIMATE VOTE COUNT then they will have every reason to relinquish what remaining faith in democracy they have.

It is vital to the very maintenance of the US Constitution that the 2008 primary elections for the Presidential Candidates is not subject to the degree of doubt that is now associated with the 2000,2002,2004 and 2006 Federal elections. 8 years of broken democracy is more than enough. 12 years is plain careless.

It is now JULY 2007.

The election is not due till NOVEMBER 2008.

If the United States can mobilize hundreds of thousands of troops to go fight an expensive war half the way around the globe then it can hold an election.

How you ask?

In nearly every democracy in the world ballots are counted by hand at a precinct (booth) level. All you have to do is ask for their assistance and they will be more than willing to show you how to hold an election.

Congress can outlaw all machine based vote counting methods with some very simple legislation. It is not rocket science. "for the 2008 elections the use of machines for the casting and counting of votes in US elections is forbidden".

In the place of the counting machines your nation will clearly need a ARMY OF VOTE COUNTERS to be mobilised for the elections.

But if you start now this will be easy. And it will be good for democracy as millions of people get up close and personal with their ballots.

I am certain that your party and the GOP as well would have MILLIONS OF VOLUNTEERS ready and willing to assist with making sure there is an accurate count of paper ballots for both the Primary and the Federal Elections in 2008. It is even possible that the vote counting will be faster than it is at present.

Dianne, you and your party need to act now to preserve US Democracy.

If you fail to do so then your party will be betraying its very name.

If you fail to do so then today 20th July 2007 will become the day you wrote your political epitaph.

Alastair Thompson
New Zealand
Co-Editor
http://Scoop.co.nz

[EFerrari]

1. Someone PLEASE rid me of this troublesome Senator.

K&R

[zonmoy]

3. perhaps a better thing to do is to have everybody who can

go to street corners and start playing a funeral march for democracy after the 2008 election is rigged or canceled whichever happens.

[althecat]

4. Zonmoy that would be altogether too sad....

There is enough time to restore U.S. Democracy. All that is required is a will.

[zonmoy]

5. problem is that the people who have the will

don't have the power and the people who have the power don't have the will to save democracy.

[althecat]

13. ... democracy is the only way to fix that....

This is why the founding fathers made some observations about frustrated citizens in the declaration of independence.

[zonmoy]

14. problem is that democracy works only when the elections are fair and honest

something that I wouldn't bet on being true in the next election.

[althecat]

17. Precisely n/t

[zonmoy]

27. So how are we going to make sure that the elections are fair and honest

if the legislators and other leaders who have the power wont lift a finger to do it. how are the people who don't have the power supposed to change things.

[althecat]

35. .. what did the founding fathers say was the answer to that question....

This is the very reason why the DNC leadership need to take this issue, and the issue of the breach of the constitution by the Bush Admin so seriously. If democracy fails what else is there you can do....

There is a very nice exploration of some of the options here...

[althecat]

36. Dept. of Revolution for Dummies (Wonkette)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1393180&mesg_id=1393180

[mod mom]

15. Not as easy as it seems. Ohio '04 was so obvious, but with a lack of participation

by the candidates and a silence by the media our hopes of getting 100,000 protestors out in the streets in Columbus Ohio (a city with ~ 1 million including the metropolitan area) turned out to be ~ 2500 (and the media reported 600).

We need to play offense. Hand counted paper ballots, with a proper chain of custody, counted at the precinct level with full public witness is the way to go. We need to verify the vote and demand fairness for voters. It CAN be done!

[althecat]

19. Hi mod mom....

Thing is...

Even when the people do mobilise...

http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2006/07/31/mexico_wideweb__470x369,0.jpg

It has no effect unless they also have the Bush Administrations backing.



Pretty soon the rule will be that unless you are "authorised" to get elected you won't.

[EFerrari]

22. I remember finding a photo of people protesting at the OH

capitol house. But have never been able to find it since. Was is scrubbed? Do you know the image I mean, mod mom?

[mod mom]

25. Here's one at this link

not the one I'm thinking of:

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=&imgrefurl=http://freepress.org/dispatches/2004/display/176&h=200&w=416&sz=37&hl=en&start=3&um=1&tbnid=r8vz-M5uQV3QAM:&tbnh=60&tbnw=125&prev=/images%3Fq%3DDecember%2B4%2B2004%2BRally%2B%252B%2BColumbus%2BOhio%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dsafari%26rls%3Den-us%26sa%3DN

sorry don't know how to post pictures

[EFerrari]

29. I know two ways to do it. If you take the example of that image,

click to go to the full sized version. Copy the address and paste the address into your post.

An easier way is to right click your mouse. You should get a menu that includes "copy image location". If you click on that, it should also copy the address of the image, and then you can paste it into your post. (These addresses typically end in .gif or .jpg)

If an image isn't already up on the net, you have to upload it to a site like photobucket first. :hi:

That isn't the image I was thinking of but it's a great one! The one I'm remembering was taken on Election night itself and I can't find it anywhere now.

[mod mom]

38. Thanks!

I don't have a right clip (mac user), but know how to do it except on DU (although one time I did-w/o knowing how I did it).

I think I know the photo you are talking about. There are many photos up on the walls at Free Press. If I come across it online I'll send it to you.

:hi:

[althecat]

33. Thats definitely more than 60. n/t

[babylonsister]

2. Big fat kick! And nom! nt

[Kurovski]

6. K&R.

:hi:

HCPB.

[althecat]

7. Related Thread: Clinton, Feinstein, et al. about to sign the Dems death warrant: Feinstein's bill.

...STEVEPOL IN ERD
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x477408

Here's John Gideon's rant about the Feinstein bill which could be the death knell for free elections in the US for the foreseeable future.

I don't know what in God's name these people are doing with their brains. Don't they read anything about these damn machines? Don't they watch these documentaries? What about HBO's Hacking America? What kind of kool-aid are they drinking? They can't all be in bed with the devil, can they?

Here's the rant:

The New York Times reports today that state and local government
organizations and the disabilities groups have had their say and
Congressman Rush Holt’s HR-811 is being withdrawn so it can go back and
be rewritten to appease the special interest groups. Special interests
have spoken and are heard; the voters speak and are ignored. Meanwhile
Senator Feinstein’s S-1487 is scheduled for a Rules committee hearing
next Wed. Have any of our Senator’s read this legislation? One has to
wonder because Senators like Bernie Sanders, Clinton, Kennedy, Obama,
and Boxer have all co-sponsored a bill that takes any control of our
elections that the voters have left and gives it all to corporations and
a federal agency that has been a miserable failure, the Election
Assistance Commission. If this bill had been the law in 2003 Bev Harris
would never have been able to give the Diebold code she found on an ftp
site to Avi Rubin and the infamous Diebold emails would never have come
to light. Next Wed. Senator Clinton is scheduled to testify in support
of this dangerous bill. It’s “Alice in Wonderland” all over again.

snip...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x477408

[Melissa G]

8. Off to greatest with you! n/t

[tularetom]

9. Has anyone checked DiFi's vast holdings to see if

she and her war profiteer hubby actually own shares in any of the voting machinee companies?

They own just about everything else.

[kster]

10. Hand Counted Paper Ballots Implementation Strategy 2007

HCPB Implementation Strategy 2007

by Rady Ananda Page 1 of 2 page(s)

http://www.opednews.com





While machine advocates try to justify electronic voting, even going so far as to add yet another electronic gadget (assuring us this is the magic bullet that will fix all our electronic voting system "glitches"), here's a less expensive, common sense strategy for 2007.

1. Require the Secretary of State to order each county that purchased DREs to prepare to implement a hand-counted paper ballot (HCPB) system by January 1, 2008.

2. Have each set of County Commissioners send a letter to all printers in their county seeking an estimate to print paper ballots, and asking them to submit a written protocol on chain of custody, so that the ballots printed are all accounted for at every moment from production to delivery to the Board of Elections.

3. Choose the printer according to most secure protocol, by reputation for quality and integrity, and then by cost. Each county is limited to using a local printer, and this will boost the local economy.

http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_rady_ana_070102_evoting_exit_strateg.htm

[althecat]

12. Cool.... thanks kster....

Precisely....

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[althecat]

11. Related Thread: Kpete - NY Times Says Holt to be Delayed (at least major parts)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x477408

This still doesn't necessarily mean that there won't be a vote on some remnant of the Holt Bill, as Land Shark suggested in his thread earlier today, but the New York Times is now reporting that "House leaders now advocate putting off the most sweeping changes until 2012" regarding Holt.

For the most part, the story attempts to spin the matter as merely one of inadequate time prior to 2008.

To his credit, Rep. Holt states that there are "many competing interests." But to the NYT's discredit, they only mention election officials and advocates for the disabled, along with one referent to "some activists" as having lost here, but not even what their arguments may have been. Thus, the NYT does not do justice to Holt proponents who likely argued that existing deadlines could work.

Was anyone on DU invited to the negotiations that the article refers to, or know anyone who was?


Overhaul Plan for Vote System Will Be Delayed
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/20/washington/20vote.html

Democratic leaders in the House and Senate are slowing their drive to revamp the nation’s voting systems, aides said yesterday.

Under pressure from state and local officials, as well as from lobbyists for the disabled, House leaders now advocate putting off the most sweeping changes until 2012, four years later than planned.

Overhauling voting systems before next year’s presidential election had once been a top Democratic priority, primarily to allow greater accountability and be certain that all votes registered on computerized touch-screen systems were counted. But state and local elections officials told Congress they could not make the changes in time for the balloting in November 2008, particularly in light of the extra workload involved in preparing for next year’s much-earlier presidential primary season.

Confronted by similar concerns, Senator Dianne Feinstein, Democrat of California and the chairwoman of the Senate Rules Committee, said she had already decided against seeking any major changes in voting equipment before 2010.

Much more at link above...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x477408

[althecat]

24. Related Thread: Suggestions for letter writing to NYT re Holt article?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x477366
Melissa G: Suggestions for letter writing to NYT re Holt article?

I think we need a letter writing campaign to the New York Times re this article.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/20/washington/20vote.html

kpete has a DU thread going on it here...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x477327

Please post your thoughts on what are the most important things that need to be said.
I have seen requests for letters elsewhere and I would like to add to the discussion with some cumulative DU ERD wisdom.
Thanks,
Melissa

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x477366

[althecat]

16. mt

[Warren DeMontague]

18. I've kinda given up on her.

Oh well- we've got one winner, at least.

[althecat]

20. If he stands....

... what I fear is that even if he decides to stand he will have the primary stolen from him.

[EFerrari]

21. DIANNE: I DO NOT CONSENT.

:kick:

[althecat]

23. ..

[Hubert Flottz]

26. Another Lieberman Democrat!

I'm sick of these pretenders!

[Hubert Flottz]

28. Getting your vote to count is off the table!

Freedom and Liberty are off the table. The politicians are so used to their sleazy under the table deals and perks, that nothing belongs on top of the table anymore.

[goforit]

30. Unbelievable!!!!

[shance]

31. Diane is no more a Democrat than George Bush.

n/t

[EFerrari]

32. She stopped acting as a Democrat when she joined the

Beltway elite. It's really frustrating.

[Kurovski]

39. Kick. (nt)

:kick:

[althecat]

40. Related Post:: On-Site Observations of Hand-Counting Paper Ballots & Recs for General Election 2008

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x477353

also on scoop

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0707/S00288.htm

[Cookie wookie]

41. Well, since it's possible to add a manager's amendment to a

bill that's been reported out of committee, and Feinstein's bill hasn't even gotten that far yet, surely somewhere language could be added (while all the bad legislation is redlined, like giving the EAC too much discretionary power), anyway, the language would be simple -- it would say: "If states can't implement electronic voting systems with voter verified paper ballots in time for the 2008 elections, then they must have all hand counted paper ballots for that election.

There go the excuses why the Holt Bill & Feinstein's bill need later deadlines (not enough time to implement new systems, train pollworkers and blah de blah). Ha.

So if they can't do it and our elections are AT RISK, then add that clause.

No excuses.

That could be done if there was the will in Congress.

[althecat]

42. That might work.... however I fear that what it would do...

... is just suddenly make achieving VVPB's a magnitude easier than the pointy headed vote counting procrastinators currently consider it to be.

... I personally advocate Hand Counted Paper Ballots precisely because something is needed to restore ACTUAL CONFIDENCE in the system. All the debate about the practicality of VVPBs, source code inspections, proper certification etc. can occur in tandem with REAL ELECTIONS. I suspect that if that were to happen then much of the BS would simply evaporate.

And Democracy would be the winner on the day.

[Cookie wookie]

43. I'm not sure what you mean.

We will only get change through legislation. It isn't possible to do otherwise. That means we need a way to move paper ballots hand counted into legislation and get that passed. Am I missing some point?

[althecat]

44. Amend the legislation to provide for HCPB

Do not amend it to provide for a VVPB or a VVPT & audits... both of which are next to useless. Similarly amending legislation to provide for a VVPB with HCPB as a backup is not ideal either... and the point I was making is that it is likely to result in a sudden resolution to the current problems in providing a VVPB as all of a sudden minds focus their attention on preventing HCPBs.