Rant: Tired of conservatives having it both ways on choice/pregnancy/out of wedlock births

[MiserableFailure]

Talk to any typical freeper, you know who I'm talking about, the guys and gals with the 60 IQ's. They'll whine and complain about the out of wedlock birth rate and say that it's a huge concern. They'll say that we need to stop subsidizing out of wedlock births by cutting government benefits to children and mothers. But if one of these unmarried women goes to get an abortion, the same people are there, waving signs in the poor(I mean unfortunatele, not necessarily financially poor) woman's face, asking her not to murder her baby.

It makes me sick.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. Simple way to shut them up

Ask, "Oh,so how many of these poor children have you adopted?"

[MiserableFailure]

2. How many of them get kids from China or other Asian countries?

I know a lot of people from the US have been going there to get kids. I see nothing wrong with that, but I hope no conservatives who feel that way would be doing this. Why, that would just be hypocritical.

No, what they'd probably tell you is the number is 0, that it's not their problem, and that people should just stop having sex if they aren't married.

[trixie]

7. They do that because

They don't have to follow US laws pertaining to the treatment of children. No court, no social workers etc. This way they can beat the shit out of them in the privacy of their homes.

[MiserableFailure]

11. that can't be true

nt

[trixie]

14. Sad but true

In our area if you adopt you must pledge to not hit any child in the household. Cultish religious groups now adopt overseas because you don't have to pledge to a court and there is no follow up visits or any contact with family service organizations.

Check out the Pearls who are horrible and have adopted many, many foreign children.

[littlebit]

6. The last time I asked one that

I was told that they pay enough for those sorry people on welfare. Why should they take care of somebody elses problem.

[MiserableFailure]

12. Well

Because when you want to prohibit a woman from exercising control over her own body and getting an abortion if she chooses, it becomes their "problem" as well.

[theredpen]

3. I'm not sure that out of wedlock births are a big issue...

I've been reading quite a bit of Free Republic traffic (and yes, I need a shower), and I'd have to disagree with your characterization. I think you're right that conservatives believe that life becomes sacred at conception and stops being sacred at birth, but out-of-wedlock births specifically aren't discussed much at Free Republic.

I'd say that their main hypocrisy is a failure to realize that a right to life entails a right to health care. I think that's part of the appeal of mega-churches and non-affiliated "bible" churches -- no institutional involvement in helping people. Baptists have hospitals, Catholics have hospitals, Jews have hospitals... what mega-church has ever opened a hospital?

Anyway, right now the big focus on "wasteful government social spending" is on money spent on the "illegals." (According to the average Freeper, most of the people in the United States are now illegal aliens, or at least that's the sense you get from their ranting.)

[MiserableFailure]

5. Didja get lost somewhere?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1857261/posts

[theredpen]

8. Your point?

1. You could have posted that link with your original piece. There's a lot of crap on Free Republic and it's not possible for even the most ardent Freeper to read it. That said, I've been following FR pretty closely for a while and complaints about unwed mothers are not daily fare.

2. This article doesn't underscore your original point at all. It doesn't mention government benefits once. This is another "here's something I hate and I'm going to lump it in as part of the liberal plot to destroy our country" article. Those are always popular on Free Republic. This particular article a call for wingnuts to stigmatize single parenthood so that people won't see it as a "life-style choice." Making lifestyle choices is something that Freepers oppose, unless you are David Vitter.

[MiserableFailure]

10. The point is

it's not about the article, it's about the article COMMENTS. Read the comments. Did you get lost somewhere?

[theredpen]

13. I got lost in your original article.

1. You did not post a link to what you are talking about.

2. You didn't mention comments.

Next time, post a link to the item and instruct people to check out the comments. Better yet, post links to typical comments. Your inability to make it clear what you are talking about is not my fault.

Let me demonstrate. My point was that if you bring up "wasteful government social spending" to a Freeper, they are much more likely to go off about illegal immigrants than unwed mothers. First of all, I can find a post that focuses on this actual specific topic:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1869494/posts">Utah Tells Feds How Much It Costs To Teach Immigrants (Illegal Aliens, That Is...)

I can also find comments that go off-topic to complain about this:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1869407/posts?page=4#4">Response to: Michelle Malkin: Kick the thugs out

Both of these were posted today -- not a month ago. There will be more tomorrow. Furthermore, you told me to look at the "article COMMENTS." A quick survey of the comments revealed that most of them were arguing whether or not the premise of the article was correct.

I still don't get your point.

Also, trying to make me look like I don't really know what people post on Free Republic is not going to prove successful.

[MiserableFailure]

15. Of course it won't

You're probably an expert

[theredpen]

18. I am an expert

I don't know if I should be proud to say that. :-)

Free Republic is like a train wreck made entirely out of words. It's hard to look away.

[AmandaRuth]

4. add to that

the fact they oppose any min wage laws. And they hate public schools. sick sick people.

[DBoon]

9. their position is entirely consistent

they want women to be slaves

they want poor people to suffer

once you realize this, their statements make sense

out of wedlock birth = women who has not chosen a husband/master to rule her life
abortion = women who is not forced to define her life by her reproductive capacity, who beilieves she can choose when and where she bears children (= not a slave)
poor mother with government benefits = a poor person who is not suffering enough

[theredpen]

21. Consistent GREED AND DEATH ethic

When George W. Bush was governor, he famously executed as many people as he could. What isn't widely know is that some of these people were innocent children who simply couldn't pay for their hospital treatment. Yes, you heard me right.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/12/14/151930/63">Here's something from the DailyKos from two years ago that illustrates Bush's "money before people" law. I found this link on a post on the http://socialistcatholic.blogspot.com/2007/07/vital-distinctions-in-transplantation.html">Socialist Catholic blog that discusses end-of-life issues from a Catholic perspective. (Not the whole blog, just this post :) .)

BTW, there is no Biblical foundation for the idea that life begins at conception. There is a single verse that fundies take out of context, but there are many, many references in the oldest of the Biblical Scriptures that make two things clear. First, unless something has blood it is not alive. Obviously this can't be taken too literally as some things are clearly alive and don't have blood per se. The next requirement is breath; if something isn't breathing, it has no spirit. Yes, this means that animals have spirits. There's a third level of life, neshama, which is the intellect, but this is from Talmud and Cabballah and your garden variety fundie (or B.S. Cabballah twits like Madonna) aren't going to have heard anything about it.

The second point, the breath, allows even Ultra-Orthodox Jews to allow abortion up to the end of the second trimester. Theoretically, it should also allow Catholics to sanction this, but that's not the position taken by the Vatican. But hey, if the Vatican can elect a Pope who was once in the Nazi youth, I can be a member of http://www.catholicsforchoice.org/">Catholics for a Free Choice.

[WilliamPitt]

16. Both ways?

Anti-choice but pro-death penalty.

Hypocrites.

The anti-choice people I've known who are equally against the death penalty have my respect even in disagreement, because they at minimum are consistent in their orgasm-to-grave defense of life as they see it.

"They think life begins at conception and ends at birth." - Rep. Barney Frank

Yup.

[MiserableFailure]

17. That's stupid but not necessarily inconsistent imo

The argument they'll give you is that the fetus is an innocent human life while the murderer on death row has forfeited his right to life by committing the crime. I don't have any more respect for people who are anti-choice and anti-death penalty than I do for people who are anti-choice and pro-death penalty. The key here is that both people are anti-choice and both want to subjugate women.

Now, I'm for the death penalty in principle but against it in practice because I don't want to execute innocent people.

In Commentaries on the Laws of England, Blackstone tells us that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer. That said, I have no tolerance for people who argue that it is morally wrong for the state to execute a murderer. I may be against it in practice but for admitted(read: confessed) murderers, I have no qualms at all about executing them.

If I were a convicted murderer though, and had to choose between being executed by lethal injection or serving a life sentence without possibility of parole(in solitary confinement, that's the key), I'd choose the execution any day. And if I was given the life sentence I'd probably try to hang myself. There's no question that LWIP is the crueler and more severe sentence. The problem is that 99% of murderers not given the death penalty are housed in general population and allowed to watch television, lift weights, even take classes to get a GED in some cases. This is ridiculous.

Not as ridiculous as this though:

http://www.cnn.com/2007/LAW/06/26/sex.change.inmate.ap/index.html

Regards,
MiserableFailure

[TheFarseer]

19. quite simply, we need more birth control

Government subsidized if need be. It would truly solve alot of problems from abortion to poverty. Unfortunately Conservatives would have a fit about their tax dollars being used for any kind of effort in this direction (being too short-sighted to see this is much cheaper than millions of unwanted pregnancies) and also many Conservatives believe birth control is as evil as abortion :eyes:

[NMMNG]

20. Megalomaniacal control freaks, every last one of them.

They want to run every aspect of other peoples' lives, and they're never satisfied no matter what you say or do. Funny how they get their knickers in a twist, though, if someone else tries to tell them what to do.