John Edwards is the most electable Dem, and that's the imperative.

[AJ9000]

I read a very astute comment recently making this point. He did it so well I don't need to say much except to add that none of these candidates are perfect, and preventing a Republican from winning the WH in 08 supersedes all other factors. And note the important point of Southern Dems being the ones that can actually win the WH historically.

Here's the comment:

“John Edwards was more electable than Kerry in 2004, so the Democrats did not go with the most electable candidate in 2004.

THE MEDIA started saying that Kerry was the most electable, and the SHEEPLE adopted that line.
PBS did a DELIBERATIVE STUDY in 2004 of the candidates, that was more than just a poll. It was detailed analysis of the Democratic candidates, how they stacked up against George W. Bush, and how they were viewed by Democrats. The participants received a lot of information and were more informed about the candidates than the average voter.

Democrats liked Kerry a little more than Edwards, but not significantly more.
However, when it came to matchups against George W. Bush, John Edwards was proven to be a lot more electable than Kerry.

Here is how the matchups broke down:

Kerry 47
Bush 47

Kerry and Bush were tied just like they were throughout most of the 2004 Presidential campaign, which proves that the deliberative study was dead on in it's analysis.

Edwards 48
Bush 37

John Edwards would have blown Bush out of the water because he took votes away from Bush, and definitely made people question Bush and feel less favorable about Bush. John Edwards, the study found, took Republican and Independent votes away from Bush.

I know some people don't want to believe that, but I repeat, if the deliberative study was SPOT ON with Kerry and Bush, what makes you think it's not with Edwards and Bush?

Yes, Eric. Democrats did prove that they didn't know what the heck they were talking about. They bit the media's line that Kerry was the most electable in 2004, which he wasn't.

Edwards was, and he still is, and apparently the Democrats are ready to make the same mistake that they did in 2004, by nominating Clinton or Obama, who are less electable than John Kerry was. Think about PBS putting Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama against Bush back in 2004 instead of Kerry. Think either of them would have tied him? Yeah, right.

Like Bill Maher said the other night on Jay Leno, "how are the Democrats are going to screw it up this time in 2008, when the election is right there for them to take?"

He said, and I'm paraphrasing in spots, "probably by nominating Hillary Clinton who half of the country can't stand. If they want to win then nominate John Edwards, because history has shown them that a Democrat isn't going to win anything unless they have a southern accent. And have him run with Barack Obama. That's an attractive ticket that America would turn out in droves to vote for."

You got it Maher. Edwards was the most electable in 2004, and still is.

Here is the article he was responding to:

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/eric_alterman/2007/07/whither_john_edwards.html

[AJ9000]

1. Edwards/Obama would take it pulling away in the 08 general election.

[tkmorris]

7. I agree with you

Actually that ticket could go either way but I like Edwards on top of it because while both lack some experience in national elected positions Edwards prior run on Kerry's ticket makes him feel a more comfortable choice to the voting public in my view. Further, Edwards is proposing a good bit more position wise than either Obama or Ms. Clinton, and I really like his anti-poverty campaign.

[saltpoint]

2. It's impossible for me to feel sorry for the Republicans. They stood in

line, in the damn RAIN, for HOURS, to vote for that shit-for-brains monkey, and they got him for two terms, and he's turned everything he's touched into garbage. Not least the Constitution.

The Iraq War is a PNAC project, and all the Bush-types who engineered it are included in the voters' wrath. We all know the names. Don "Shit Happens" Rumsfeld. Colin "Hell, I'll lie to the U.N. anytime ya want" Powell, Dick, and Condi, and Bill Kristol and Doug Feith -- the whole wicked pack of them. Bush is at the helm, having cheated to win, twice, and blame for destroying human lives in Iraq and our international reputation as well should be laid at his doorstep.

I believe most historians will be doing just that quite soon.

I loved our ticket in 04. I'm going to be supporting our ticket in 08. And it would be just fine with me if we held the first caucus tomorrow. I'm eager to begin the season in which U.S. voters select a new leadership team. God knows we are in sore need of one.

The times and tragedies in play now favor the Democratic ticket and a significant Democratic opportunity in several Senate and House races. Let's press for a maximum advantage and outcome.

I'd prefer John Edwards at the top of our ticket, but I'm voting blue no matter what.

[Exultant Democracy]

9. How can you not feel bad for republicans, the dumb sobs vote against their

own self interest. Thats why the bible belt looks like a third world country.

[saltpoint]

19. Agree. I love Howard Dean for many reasons, but one of these is that

he went down into many Southern cities in 04 and directly told those folks they were voting against their own best interest, and against their children's best interest.

It was a civics lesson in heightened, aware citizenship. I hope that message will get through to still more voters. 2006 was a good year for us, but we need bigger majorities.

[kdmorris]

13. I doubt any of the REPUBLICANS stood in line

in the rain for hours! That was strictly the experience of poor, generally black, likely Democratic voters.

I live in a mainly white district of Palm Beach County. During every election I've voted in since living her in 2001, we've been in and out within 20 minutes. 3 miles to the east, in a district that is primarily black, the lines were wrapped around the building.

But as for the rest of your point, yeah, I don't feel at all sorry for the Republicans. THEY got the government they deserve. Unfortunately, the rest of us got the government they deserve, too.

[saltpoint]

18. Let me add NE Ohio to that, too. Kenneth Blackwell fixed conditions

and access in many of those (usually) Democratic districts so the lines were super long. Many people just can't stand in line that long and have to go home to be parents or partners or maybe they have a late-shift work schedule, etc.

When Blackwell went down to a crushing defeat in 06, there were loud cheers at my house. And we don't even live in Ohio anymore!

[saracat]

3. For the record, Kerry likely DID win! And we don't "Know" what they would have done to Edwards.

I feel Edwards is very electable, more so than some others.But we are doing a fine job of eating our own.It is very sad.Some of the so called "progressives" are worse to Edwards than the GOP.I just don't get it.Maybe some don't want to win.And it isn't only Edwards yet he seems to be the biggest target.They slime Obama and Hillary as well.You don't have to "like " all the candidates but the nonstop "bashing" is disgusting.These are "our" candidates.

[AdHocSolver]

10. Many liberals would sooner be "right" and "pure" rather than win. n/t

[1932]

4. Clarification - the PBS study was actually PBS-sponsored and it was conducted

by a Stanford and a U-Texas professor who have done deliberative polling for a lot of elections, and their method is really interesting. They get people talking, asking questions, thinking about the issues (they deliberate) and the professors' argument is that the more informed the voters are, the better their decisions are, and that, in the real world, their model becomes very predictive if people get all the information that their samples get.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

21. The problem is, the average voter isn't informed at all. Vote straight ticket like their pappy, or

the party "brand" that is favored in their region, race, socioeconomic group.

[1932]

26. But the best you can do with any candidate is to hope the voter gets as much

info as possible on which to base their opinion.

I can't think of any reason you wouldn't want to run the candidate who did the best after people discussed and had all their questions answered about all the candidates.

[Mythsaje]

5. Edwards is my top choice...

Course, I think he threatens the status quo more than any other top tier candidate, therefore they're going to do everything they can to cut him down.

[billyoc]

6. I'm for Edwards, but I'll support any non-DLC Democrat

that wins the nomination.

[AdHocSolver]

8. A Democrat can only win if he gets sufficient numbers of independents and moderate Republicans...

to vote for him. Clinton produces enough hostility among those two groups to motivate them to vote against her. Obama is popular now, but when it comes close to voting time he is going to run out of steam.

Edwards has a populist message that can resonate with money people of all backgrounds. To win in 2008, the Democratic nominee must win by a sufficiently large margin so that the Republicans can't steal the election as they did in Florida in 2000 and Ohio in 2004.

Edwards is smart, but not in a slick, pedantic fashion like Kerry. Edwards is folksy, but not with the strained mannerisms of Bush. Edwards knows his audience, but doesn't come off in the condescending manner of many politicians. His extensive litigation experience has made him a quick study. He is the best candidate the Democrats have come up with since Bill Clinton, and I would be really pissed off if the Democrats blow away this opportunity to gain the presidency for a third time. Moreover, the country cannot afford it.

[Joe Chi Minh]

23. I'm not sure I agree with your header. Only get a landslide, I would say.

But were enough people to believe that their vote would not be wasted by voting for Dennis, which I personally, though very VERY regretfully doubt, I think the people with the power and the money are now too corrupt, and to make matters worse, ubiquitous, for him to be able to be effective - even after corportatist fiasco. I'd love to be proven wrong. But, barring some catastrophic national event on the scale of WWII, I can't see it happening.

On the other hand, John looks to be a superb candidate at this jucture, and would I tust prepare the way for a Socialist-style society after one of the Scandinavian models. If any people deserve it, imo, you do.

Better than railing at your comments on Intelligent Design, a quick look in a dictionary will indicate to you that 'design' absolutely predicates 'intelligence'. Both cerebration and purpose.

[struggle4progress]

11. Maher's might could got something there: I likes the sound of an Edwards-Obama ticket

[Divine Discontent]

12. I have to admit....

that sounds positive to me, and I'm not a huge Obama fan, but I dig it and it's implications. Edwards DOES get a 15-20% of Repub votes in a general election in '08 imo, I think the honorable J.Kerry got less than 10 if I recall right (but if wrong, my point is JE will get about 10% more than JK). We will also have a very good shot at winning in NC and FL, and if that occured - it's a lock.


www.cafepress.com/warisprofitable <<--- top '08 items & antib*sh stickers!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

14. Edwards Is My Second Choice

Obama is my first...

We can't afford to lose in 08...

[janx]

15. "Electable"

It's unbelievable that the media/politicians are using this ruse AGAIN. A candidate becomes electable when the candidate is elected. It's really very simple. :shrug:

[philosophie_en_rose]

27. Like a prom king and queen...

It really boils down to who looks best in a swimsuit, I suppose. :eyes:

I really, really like Edwards as a candidate, but the whole 'electability' label is shallow.

[madokie]

16. as it is months before I get to vote I today would cast my vote for Edwards

on my perception of him to be honest. With an honest president I can go to sleep at night and not have to worry.

[Le Taz Hot]

17. There's another forum:

General Discussion - Politics that you might consider using. I avoid that particular forum like the plague because of the mindless groupthink "rah-rah" shit such as this one.

[MLFerrell]

20. MY candidate is better than YOUR candidate!

So there! Myah!

[mzmolly]

22. Very good information, thanks. Edwards needs to REALLY promote his electability IMHO.

Of course this should be done on a campaign level rather than a personal one.

[Joe Chi Minh]

24. Firstly, Kerry blew Bush out of the water, and was only robbed by

crooked 'election' machines and massive voter suppression. Where have you been?

Also what relevance would Obama have to Edwards platform? Don't tell me Edwards has picked him as his VP.

[JacquesMolay]

25. that's why the media constantly shells him...

... in fact, in 2004, Karl Rove said Edwards was the Democrat he feared most. The system is scared as hell of Edwards.