**RUSS FEINGOLD ANNOUNCES CENSURE RESOLUTION OF BUSH & (probably) CHENEY**

[The Cleaner]

This just on Meet the Press...Feingold is on an he's hitting Bush hard!

However, he's discounting impeachment, doesn't want to "tie up" Congress.

Personally I think they need impeachment. Bush & Cheney will simply laugh at a Censure slap on the wrist and ignore it. Feingold even admitted it doesn't hold legal authority.

"This administration has weakened America in a way that is frightful."

[babylonsister]

1. That will prove nothing; go for impeachment, Russ. That would send a

message. We're beyond censure imo.

[proud2BlibKansan]

2. Censure should have happened a long time ago

[KittyWampus]

15. what would censure accomplish? Isn't it sort of like giving Junior a demerit?

they don't care about crap like that.

Someone help me out. I don't want to sound like a nay-sayer.

[in_cog_ni_to]

20. That's exactly what it is. It says to DEAR LEADER, "You've been a bad boy, now go sit in your

time-out chair."

If CONTEMPT OF CONGRESS means nothing to these THUGS, Censure will give them a huge gut laugh!

At least Censure is SOMETHING (probably act 50 in the dog and pony show...throw THE PEOPLE another bone to pacify them for the time being), but IMPEACHMENT is a MUST!

[G_Leo_Criley]

51. So then what exactly does it say...

that this * seems to be begging to be impeached? I think that it's very meaningful.

You don't think that the strategy is to tie things up until they manage to get outta Dodge, do you?

Better to use what we have for Contempt of Congress and for censure and anything else that will expose this administration for what it is.

Document their crimes. Document their many, many crimes. First.

glc

[proud2BlibKansan]

30. It's just a step

And one of many steps the Dems need to take.

[spotbird]

3. Yawn....

Talk about a waste of time, Russ. Just send them another strongly worded letter, of slap them with another nonbinding resolution.

[illinoisprogressive]

4. Russ Rocks. He is brilliant and a great leader.

[Skidmore]

5. I saw Russ dance up to a line and the back away just now.

Sure, he criticized the administration but he took impeachment off the table for the Senate just now.

[pstans]

13. The Senate can't introduce impeachment, the House has to

Russ has no option on impeachment. If the House passes a measure to impeach, then the Senate votes to convict. The censure is the only measure Russ has to hold the administration accountable.

[Jackpine Radical]

6. Russ thinks he can get a censure vote, doesn't think he can get impeachment.

In his view, he's going for what he believes he can get through.

I don't agree with him on this, but I think I understand his strategy.

[cascadiance]

8. Maybe he can do BOTH!

If he gets censure passed, it would seem like then he'd have an excuse to go tap on the shoulders of those who voted for censure and remind them that impeachment should be the next step if that House bill comes through and if evidence shows that Bush committed crimes!

[Jackpine Radical]

38. Yeah. Maybe so.

I do know that more than a year ago, he spoke at the WI Dem Convention saying that Bush's actions were "in the strike zone" for impeachment, but that he thought he had a better chance of getting a censure vote through. Feingold is more into working on effective measures than histrionics.

[Botany]

7. This is a good start

This no little slap on the wrist
impeachment has to start in the House ....
and then a trial in the Senate.

The censure can be done as the house holds hearings that could lead to a bill of impeachment.

Lying to get us into a war count one

Violation of the 4th Amendment of the Constitution with
the Domestic Spying .... need a warrant & probable cause count two

The outing of Val Pal aka Treason count three

The use of federal monies to "buy news & reporters count four

The use of the Dept of Justice to manipulate elections
and to punish political enemies count five

Cheney's energy task force and manipulation of supply and price
of electricity to cause the removal of a sitting Governor of California count six

[dkofos]

9. Waste our time and don't do your job.

[in_cog_ni_to]

10. Harry Reid was just on "Face The Nation" and

when asked if he would let Feingold take a censure resolution to the floor, Reid said, "well, yes, but the republicons will just block it." Harry thinks a resolution is a waste of time. This administration will be out of office in less than 18 months...so why bother?:eyes:

[pstans]

12. Censure is a way to hold the administration accountable without bogging down the Senate

with impeachment hearings.

[in_cog_ni_to]

16. I know. That doesn't change the fact that Harry thinks it's a waste of time...and the repukes will

just block it.:(

[John Q. Citizen]

27. Let's bog down the Senate with a measuer the Repos will just block. One that has no force

of law.

Impeachment in the house, on the otherhand, would focalize the nation on the serious criminal nature of the administration, and the threat it poses to the country and constitution as a whole.

Impeachment in the house would force an up or down vote in the Senate, and those Senators who are up for re-election in 08 who vote for corruption, criminals, and cowards, will have some explaining to do.

[pstans]

59. This won't bog down the Senate like impeachment hearings would

[snappyturtle]

28. We just got it here...UNREAL! Reid:"We have more important work to do."

He said this after iterating a list of "crimes" this administration has committed.....he's got to be in bed with them somehow. :shrug:

[orleans]

50. harry reid needs to SNAP OUT OF IT!

and russ needs to get behind this impeachment concept.

i know it starts in the house.

when it gets up to the senate, will russ vote to convict?

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

11. I love Russ but Censure is bullshit. It does absolutely nothing. eom

[Peggy Day]

14. Isorry I was wrong

[MonkeyFunk]

17. just like a failed impeachment attempt...

it does nothing.

But censure is at least achievable.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

18. Keep the meme going about Impeachment failing........

:puke:

[MonkeyFunk]

19. Name me 18 Republican Senators

who will vote to convict, and I'll stop.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

21. That's for removal. We own the House. Get the crimes of Shrub out in the open and

the Republicans that support him will lose their jobs.

[KoKo]

24. Impeachment means Dems can now get ahold of the Documents and the Judiciary Committee can

release the crimes to the American People. That's why Impeachment has to go forward. It won't bog down the whole House ...it will force the documents to be released and those who have been served subpoenas to have to appear and answer questions.

[MonkeyFunk]

31. huh?

an impeachment committee has no special powers. An investigative committee would have the same power.

[OzarkDem]

46. Sweep it under the rug with censure

and you'll get the same gang of thugs in Congress after the next election who will only make the problem worse.

[VP505]

22. I doubt that anyone can,

but we still ought to do it anyway. If for no other reason it will get the misdeeds of the Bu$h Admin out in the public eye keep it in the public eye in a way that cannot be disputed. If the House and Senate can get it done quickly there is much to be gained regardless of the votes.

[MonkeyFunk]

25. I disagree...

Failure to convict will be an acquittal - it will be seen as a victory for the administration, and it will effectively give him immunity for future crimes, and codify that his current excesses are allowable.

[G_Leo_Criley]

26. very achievable

Just watched Feingold on MTP. I believe that Feingold is right. Censure of * is appropriate and would be very meaningful.

glc

[FredStembottom]

33. Oh for cryin' out loud!

You start the process and get the hundreds of un-constitutional moves by the Bushies on record. You know, the ones that were made to lie us into war and begin torture and lose track of MULTI-billions of dollars. Get the full Abu-Graib photos included etc. etc. etc.

Voting against impeachment then becomes a vote for sodomy on little boys and starting wars on lies and Russian-style cronyism and on and on.

How many Repubs. could withstand that?

There is a point where the Republicans will want to surgically remove the cancer on their party in order to live another day. Bush and Cheney will suddenly just be 2 guys.

Will ALL the Repubs. be "scared straight". No!

BUT this is the most complete and well-documented and HUGE criminal case they will have ever seen - some Repubs. will not survive the pressure. Let's find out how many!

This phantom, imaginary vote surmising is ridiculous! :argh:

[MonkeyFunk]

35. You can get all that on the record NOW

via investigative hearings, not impeachment hearings.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

36. No! No! No! Just like the hearings are working now? How many Americans watch c-span?

MSM keeps the public in the dark but they can't with Impeachment! That is the only way we can let the sunshine in.

[MonkeyFunk]

39. impeachment hearings

aren't investigatory. You build a case through investigatory hearings, THEN you impeach. Impeachment is the presentation of the evidence to the House.

You don't impeach, and then conduct an investigation, just as you don't indict someone, and then start investigating the crime.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

40. They have the cases. You have Shrub in his own words bragging that he broke the

law in regard to the NSA wiretapping! They have tomes of information concerning the Downing Street Memos. Even telling subpoened Miers not to appear was a felony. They have the ammo.

[MonkeyFunk]

45. No you don't

you don't have Bush admitting he broke the law.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

47. He admitted to breaking the law in regard to the NSA wiretapping and

he was proud of it. And where does it say in the Constitution that the President who is being tried for Impeachment must admit to his Impeachable offenses.
You won't convince me and I don't think you wlll convince many on DU that Impeachment isn't an option.

[MonkeyFunk]

49. Show me a quote where he admits

he broke the law.

Not that he wiretapped people - a quote showing he admits breaking the law in doing so.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

52. He doesn't have to admit to breaking the law! He admitted to illegal NSA wiretaps.

That's enough. Geeze.......

[ClassWarrior]

53. He confessed to a crime. If someone confesses to murder...

...he doesn't need to acknowledge that murder is a crime to be convicted for it.

NGU.

[MonkeyFunk]

63. again

where's a quote where he admits to a crime? Admitting to doing something and admitting to doing something illegal are two different things.

[ClassWarrior]

64. Whatever.

But thanks for kicking the thread.

NGU.

[G_Leo_Criley]

48. investigative hearings

I agree MonkeyFunk.

Investigative hearings are where the EVIDENCE is found and recorded for future action and for history.

Evidence -- real solid evidence - is needed both to impeach and to convict in the Senate.


glc

[bbgrunt]

23. gee, if impeachment is a waste of time, what the hell is a censure?

[snappyturtle]

29. Good point!! nt

[ClassWarrior]

56. .

[mopinko]

32. tie that congress up. nothing good will come out of it, anyway

anything important to dems is being stalled out, or will be vetoed. time to just strip the gears on this machine, pull it apart, and start over.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

34. I heard him on MTP - seemed like he wanted a historical record

that some Senators wanted to go on the record as being against the lawlessness of the Bush administration. Whatever. Seems to me that they could all read scathing indictments into the record anytime they wanted to. They should all be standing on their chairs and screaming and fainting from fatigue all the time like Jimmy Stewart in Mr Deeds.

They should also all be talking about the erosion of the Constitution and Bush effectively making himself a dictator every single time they get in front of a TV camera or a reporter. They should put it out in any contact they have with the people they represent.They should write newspaper editorials about it. They should go on local and national radio shows about it. They should blog about it.

And when Conyers and Leahy move forward with contempt indictments, they should support them and shout "Rule of Law!Rule of Law!"until they can shout no more and have to use American sign language.

I wish we had a parliamentary system where we could have "no confidence" and force new elections.

[flyarm]

37. i want impeachment because i want my child to know there were Americans who tried to stop these

bastards!

i want history books to show that there were Americans that were staunchly opposed to what this admin did to their rights..

I want History books to show that there was a strong voice to opposing this war..and torture , and spying on Americans..destroying habeas corpus, destroying our judicial system and the powers of congress.

I want that duly noted in every history book..that we the people did not sit idly by while the destruction of our democracy occured!

if that means we only get impeachment through congress and not the senate..so be it..but damn it, i want our voices..the voices of 70% on the record forever!!

if Russ or Pelosi or any of them can't handle that..they need to get out of the way!!

THEY ARE SITTING WITH A 14% APPROVAL..WHY?????????

because they arfe not doing what we the people want..they are not there for their career

they are there to represent what we the people want..not how much they can get from lobbiests and what lobbiests want..but what we want..

if they can't do the people's job..they need to leave..

if 14% show what the people want..well than we are all sold out to 14% of the electorate..and i will never put up another dime to anyone..i will not knock on another door, i will not work another phone bank..i will not do another damn thing to get any of these people elected again..

i will look for new people to oppose them..all of them!

It seems very simple to me..and this congress wants to muddy the waters..saying its impossible..we can't get the votes..blah blah blah...

well you don't know until you do it..

you don't know until all the electorate knows the truth of what is going on..period!

I went to a Dem Club party last night of over 200+ ppl..and honestly folks..most of the people there have no clue what is really happening!!
I asked at least 50 ppl what they thought of *hes executive orders from this week and what they thought of * blocking the subpeonas...none of these people knew what i was talking about!

Dennis Kusinich was supposed to be there..and understandably( he has been sick and has debate this week) he was a no show..

Menendez sent a intern..it was sad..the dems sent a 19 yr old..to speak...who read a blah blah blah statement.

and this is in a very repub area..that we came close to winning in Nov.....and historically got the closest ever..but not one dem from congress showed up..

Like my husband who is non political said when we left..do the dems really want to win anything?

I replied to my husband ..do the dems want people to know what is really happening to our democracy..since none of these people know what the hell has gone down this week??

I know they have busy sched's...but this is the northeast..and we can't get one Dem with position to show up??

This is a dem club that was started 3 yrs ago now with 9 people...and we now usually (if someone shows up) have been getting 400 people to come to the fund raisers..we had well over 400 ppl last summer..because it was an election year and all the candidates showed up..this year..none..but a couple locals running for very local stuff..none of the national people showed up..so we lost around 200 ppl coming.



but i digress...

I want impeachment ..and i have held back until the past couple weeks..i was willing to give the powers of the people we elected the benefit of the doubt ..of how to approach this...but no more..

i want my grandchildren one day to know there were many many Americans that were fighting to stop this admin and all their lies and stealing and cheating and most of all..murdering human beings.

I feel shame of my country today..i feel disgust..i feel anger..and i want that refelected in history books ... what this congress does in my name about the malfeasance and crimes and murder of this administration!!!!

another words i want accountability!! and now!!

so Russ, censure ..is not good enough..it is a joke..either impeach or get out ..now!!

fly

[OzarkDem]

44. Excellent post!

Thank you. I also don't want my generation to go down in history as standing by while our Constitution and its government were undermined and possibly destroyed.

:applause:

[flyarm]

55. PLEASE SEE MY POST #54 AND WRITE TO RUSS..MY LETTER THERE!!

AND THANK YOU !!

O8)

FLY

LET HISTORY SHOW WE THE PEOPLE STILL MATTER AND WE DEMAND OUR VOICES MUST BE HEARD, LOUD AND CLEAR!!

[ClassWarrior]

41. Tell him NO CENSURE - YES IMPEACHMENT...

Link to email Feingold here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3393061&mesg_id=3393061

NGU.

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

42. Well- that's it then. We're saved.

:shrug:

[Canuckistanian]

43. A historical slap on the wrist

For the most corrupt, incompetent, criminal and immoral administration in U.S. history.

No thanks.

Impeachment or nothing.

[flyarm]

54. please write to Russ Feingold here:..

Tell Feingold, "No censure, yes IMPEACHMENT."

this was posted by Class Warrior ..i would like to repeat this, you can see this thread here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3393061&mesg_id=3393061



please email Russ Feingold here:
Via email - send your comments to Sen. Feingold here: http://www.progressivepatriotsfund.com/input.html

4000 word max...so you can say alot!!

please do this today!!

thanks ClassWarrior!!
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

the following is what i wrote , my letter to Russ Feingold
fly

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


To the Honorable Congressman Russ Feingold,

I want impeachment because I want my child to know there were Americans who tried to stop these criminals in this White House!

I want history books to show that there were Americans that were staunchly opposed to what this admin did to their rights..

I want History books to show that there was a strong voice to opposing this war..( I am sorry but censure means nothing to these criminals!!) and torture , and spying on Americans..destroying Habeas Corpus, destroying our judicial system and the powers of Congress. I want history to show that we the people were lied ..not mislead , but lied into an unjust criminal war!

I want that duly noted in every history book..that we the people, did not sit idly by while the destruction of our democracy occurred!

If that means we only get impeachment through congress and not the senate..so be it..but dang it, I want our voices..the voices of 70% on the record forever!!

If Russ, you or Pelosi or any of you in Congress can't handle that..you need to get out of the way!!

This Democratic congress, your Democratic Congress Russ, ARE SITTING WITH A 14% APPROVAL..WHY?????????

Because you are not doing what we the people want..you are not there for your career!!

You Russ are there to represent what we the people want..not how much you can get from lobbyists and what lobbyists want..but what we the people want..

If this congress can not protect our Constitution, as it is laid out in the constitution, and if you can not do the people's job..then many of you need to leave..

If 14% is what you believe dictates what the people want..well, then we are all sold out to 14% of the electorate..

..and I will never put up another dime to anyone in the Democratic party..I will not knock on another door, I will not work another phone bank..I will not do another damn thing to get any of you Democratic people elected again..You will not be representing my democratic values !

I will look for new people to oppose you ..all of you!

It seems very simple to me..and this Congress wants to muddy the waters..saying its impossible..we can't get the votes..blah blah blah...

Well you don't know, until you do it..I WOULD RATHER LOSE TRYING, THAN TO NEVER HAVE TRIED AT ALL..I WANT THAT IN THE HISTORY BOOKS!! THAT WE TRIED TO STOP THESE CRIMINALS!!
THOSE ARE MY VALUES YOU ARE PLAYING WITH CONGRESSMAN FEINGOLD!!


You don't know until all the electorate knows the truth of what is going on..period!
WITH THIS CURRENT MEDIA, THE AMERICAN PUBLIC IS THE LEAST AWARE OF WHAT IS GOING ON!

OUR VERY CONGRESS IS NOW BEING MADE DEFUNCT BY THIS ADMINISTRATION..IS THAT OK WITH YOU CONGRESSMAN FEINGOLD??..IT IS NOT OK WITH ME..NOT BY A LONG SHOT!!

I want impeachment ..and I have held back until the past couple weeks..I was willing to give the powers of the people we elected , the benefit of the doubt ..of how to approach this...but no more..

I want my grandchildren one day to know, there were many, many Americans that were fighting to stop this admin and all their lies and stealing OUR VERY CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS,and cheating and most of all..murdering human beings.

I feel shame of my country today..I feel disgust..I feel anger..and I want that reflected in history books ... what this Congress does in my name, about the malfeasance and crimes and murder of this administration!!!!

In other words I want accountability!! and now!!

So Russ, CENSURE?? ..is not good enough..it is a joke..either impeach or get out ..now!!

I will withold my thousands and thousands of hours of volunteer services to the Democratic party, if you censure over impeachment.

SIGNED BY MExxxx
Elected Democratic Delegate for the State of Florida

[Lifelong Protester]

65. You might want to start with "SENATOR" Feingold...

Ron Kind is the Congressman from my Wisconsin district...and then there is Dave Obey...etc. But we have no "Congressman" Feingold here.

Just saying.

And BTW, who has a list of senators who are calling for impeachment now? I'd be interested to see the list. Thanks

[Swamp Rat]

57. IMPEACH Russ!!!!

Soon it will be too late to do anything.

[immoderate]

58. He must have a strategy, because censure, by itself, is bullshit.

Maybe he wants to inspire the House to get going. :shrug:

--IMM

[ClassWarrior]

60. That... and I think he's inviting us to convince him.

Comment form here: http://www.progressivepatriotsfund.com/input.html

NGU.

[immoderate]

61. Done. Thanks.

--IMM

[BornagainDUer]

62. Russ may be onto something here. At first I thought just go

ahead with impeachment but Feingold's move on censure would also put the Repugs who support it on record as being opposed to Bush. Its an incremental step toward impeachment.

[SoonerPride]

66. No it isn't it. It's nothing. It's weak. It's spineless. It's pathetic.

That's what it is.