Democrats Drop Plans for Voting Reforms Before '08 Election

[dkofos]

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/072107E.shtml
original @ NYT

Democrats in Congress who are trying to redesign the nation's voting system generally share the same goals: an affordable, easy-to-use system with durable paper ballots that can be used by the disabled without help from poll workers.

Given the tensions, voting analysts say, the decision disclosed Thursday by Democratic leaders to put off the most sweeping changes until 2012 - four years later than planned - was easy. Congressional leaders are reluctant to tell states to junk hundreds of millions of dollars of relatively new voting equipment until it is clear when better technology will emerge.

Nothing will change. More elections will be stolen. We are fucked!!

[VP505]

1. Another

well thought out decision!:sarcasm: Maybe I am just too simple minded to understand why setting standard requirements and letting the States implement them with some financial help from the Fed is soooo complex that they have to put it off.

[Hubert Flottz]

2. Another campaign promise made by many democrats bites the dust.

What DID we win in November?

[papau]

3. This is the result desired by many DUers - they claimed the Holt bill was evil and shot it down- not

something to yell at the Democratic Party about - rather something to engage your fellow DUers (and these folks like Land Shark are larger than life names in the election reform issue who have done the hard work over the years to get the issue on the voters mental screen) in a conversation about why they preferred this result to passage of Holt.

[OzarkDem]

68. Not exactly

Dems had a chance to fix some of the problems that came up in the Holt bill, but decided it wasn't worth the effort. Truth be told, I lobbied Dems on this issue in 2003 and they (and their staffers) were utterly clueless about electronic voting and the modern ways elections can be stolen. They may have learned a little since then, but I doubt they really have the skills yet to develop good public policy.

Rather sad, isn't it?

[flyarm]

73. you have that 100% right papau!!..the freaking bev bots!..eom

[Wilms]

76. "Bevbots, Bevbots, Bevbots, Bevbots".

You sound like a freakin' freeper screaming "terrists, terrists, terrists".

Is the best you can do to support 811 is point to "Bevbots" opposing it?

[dkofos]

4. apparently nothing

[Botany]

5. Damn it

"Congressional leaders are reluctant to tell states to junk hundreds of millions of dollars of
relatively new voting equipment ..... "

Those machines are designed to cheat. Having the ability to flip votes and not be detectable
is wired into the machines hardware in some cases. That did not happen by random chance.
It would be like you were building a freeway and then opened a trap door in the middle of the
pavement and you found a fully functioning "pizza parlor" with a juke box and tables with
checkered table cloths on them w/ Luigi "cooking da pies for ya."

Although it may never be proven Deb Pryce is back in Congress thanks to EES voting systems.
(at least that is my opinion) She had poll #s @ 44% but on election day she comes up w/ 50.1%?

[dkofos]

6. Demand paper and no electronic tabulators

[AspenRose]

7. ..

:banghead:

[SoCalDem]

8. Color me surprised..NOT!

This is kick the can ..on steroids.

Every election cycle the pols lament the fact that "it's too late to do anything NOW..the election's too close"..and then the ones who "win" are not all that concerned about changing the method of their own conveyance to power, so they do nothing..

the ones who "lost" ..well they are OUT, so they can only complain from the sidelines..

the perfect storm of voting chicanery

[dkofos]

9. Indeed

[bemildred]

10. Gee, who could have predicted this? nt

[GreenPartyVoter]

28. Every single time *shaking head in disgust* It will never be the right time.

[That Is Quite Enough]

11. So the Democrats are handing over '08 (and beyond) to the Repugs?

Now there's bipartisanship for you. :eyes:

Election reform in 2012? What a joke. If they haven't shut down government elections by then, they'll end up pushing it back to 2020 or something like that.

[newyawker99]

17. Hi Snicker-snack!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[That Is Quite Enough]

78. Thanks!

Figure I should at least thank one of the people who welcomes me. Lookin' forwards to a long and productive time spent here on DU. :hi:

[Marr]

57. edit

Double post, pardon me. :)

[ProgressiveEconomist]

12. Both Democratic and Republican election officials agree. New legislation is needed

to set better groundrules for election reform before more hundreds of millions are spent on unaccountable voting equipment and on implementing intentionally fraudulent voting procedures. But most Democrats want much stronger national standards, prohibition of "Voter ID", and an end to "felon disfranchisement" that makes up to a third of African-American men ineligible to vote even after they've served outrageous racially discriminatory prison sentences. In contrast, Republicans want even more "states rights" in election administration, to cement permanent pro-GOP election bias in place in places like Mississippi and Utah.

IMO, Jimmy Carter blew it on the Carter-Ford and Carter-Baker electoral reform commissions, by rolling over to "states rights" and "Voter ID". Further, IMO Chris Dodd and Steny Hoyer blew it rolling over to Republican demands in the "Help America Vote Act" of 2004.

I don't agree with much ultra-right WSJ spinmeister John Fund says, but I agree with part of what he wrote summarizing the facts about national election standards in the WSJ three Aprils ago:

From http://www.votersunite.org/article.asp?id=5267 :

"The Secretaries Revolt, by John Fund. Wall Street Journal, April 25, 2005

'DeForest "Buster" Soaries is resigning this week after a tumultuous stint as the first chairman of the Election Assistance Commission, an obscure federal agency that some want to have increasing power and influence over how the 50 states conduct elections. ... Soaries wanted more. "We have a federal election without federal involvement," he has complained. "With 200,000 precincts in the country, there's a lot of room for variance." ... His resignation this week stemmed in part from his belief that the government hadn't given the EAC enough money or any rule-making authority over the states.

The drive to expand the EAC's power touched off a revolt from the National Association of Secretaries of State. In February, the association, which represents the top election officials of all 50 states, overwhelmingly approved a formal resolution that asked Congress to dissolve the EAC after the 2006 election. ...

Bill Gardner, New Hampshire's Democratic secretary of state, wrote the resolution. ... He says the country should avoid a pell-mell rush to federalize elections or to establish a national voter ID card, a move under consideration by a new Commission on Federal Election Reform headed by Jimmy Carter and former secretary of state James Baker.

... The commission is not an appropriate vehicle for deciding the details of how our elections are run. True, it has had some accomplishments in coming up with creative ways to help states, such as handing out best-practices guidelines to election officials that detail model administrative procedures. It is also working with states to make sure every one has a legal definition of what constitutes a valid vote as well as a statewide voter registration system that will weed out duplicates.

What is clear is that the currently constituted EAC carries with it a potential for partisan abuse. Even though current law requires the commission have an equal number of Democratic and Republican commission members, it could still tilt in a clear partisan direction if an unscrupulous president decided to stack it with recess appointments just before an election. "Democrats should think of a Richard Nixon with that kind of power, and Republicans might imagine a Hillary Clinton," warns a Democratic secretary of state....'

[KAT119]

13. Better Technology is paper ballott (x in box) w/ #2 yellow pencil=Canada!!

And several European countries, w/ all votes tabulated B/4 evening news. Nothing has ever proven more accurate or easily re-checkable/verifiable.

This is cheap and a no brainer. Don't tell the states to throw out fraud intended proprietary code Repub. hi-tech.back door open machines=all that are not paper only. Just send all US polling places the paper and pencils to use mandatorily. Sure that the evil vote stealing machines can be recycled for parts.

Pay the counties to use paper and pencils....

[dkofos]

19. Indeed. Send them paper and #2 pencils. And quit bitching about the

cost of election/ voting reform.

WE THE PEOPLE HAVE THE RIGHT TO VOTE AND FOR ALL VOTES TO BE COUNTED

[HCE SuiGeneris]

14. This is horrible news. How can we be assured of any legitimate

representation without an election procedure that ensures the validity of the votes? Fuck! :mad:

[flyarm]

35. we can't...period!! i helped pay for an audit last year of my counties dre's..the state auditor

came and took his $4000.00 and sat and talked to the soe..( or wispered ) for 2 days and then said..well gee wiz...there is no way to audit these dre machines...well no shit sherlock!

but don't worry bev harris got her little bev bots out working overtime to stop any legislation...to stop these dre's from being made illegal..so now..those of you who haven't had to vote on them or have only had one election stolen by them..good luck!!

from a fla voter

fly

[OzarkDem]

15. Unbelievable

so they're not expecting to win in 2008.

They're not going to hold Bush accountable for crimes in his administration

They're not going to impeach

They're not going to censure

They're not going to try to protect the integrity of the next election

They're not going to try to get the troops out of Iraq

They're not going to stop funding the war in Iraq

They're not going to stop Bush from invading Iran

They're not going to try to get meaningful health care reform

What exactly do they plan to do?

What is the future of our country and our government?

Someone is blackmailing them.

[dkofos]

20. Time to vote them all out and start again.

And I do mean ALL of them.

[OzarkDem]

27. Don't wait til election day

we should be calling for some of them to resign now. Election day may be too late.

[dkofos]

32. Indeed It has to start now, before the primaries.

[depakid]

31. That's becoming a popular sentiment

I've heard it over and over out there.

I have a feeling that the Dems are going to be in for a big surprise in 2008.

[dkofos]

33. They shouldn't be suprised. If they are doing their job and representing the

people.

[mzmolly]

16. Democrats are pursuing a paper trail...

Under the proposed House compromise, hundreds of counties, in 20 states, that do not use any kind of paper records would have to add the capability for the 2008 and 2010 elections.

House officials said this week that most of those counties could simply add the small, spool-like printers to their voting machines, while waiting for manufacturers to develop better technology by 2012.

But voting experts said yesterday that the voting machines in several of the states, like Delaware and some counties in Kentucky and Tennessee, probably could not be refitted with printers, and those states would have to make larger changes by next year. Maryland decided recently to try to shift from touch screens to optical scanners in 2010, so it would seem wasteful for the state to have to buy touch-screen printers for only the 2008 election, the experts said.

Voting industry officials said that they could supply enough printers as needed for next year.

[dkofos]

23. At a thousand bucks a pop for the printers I can see why some states or counties

would balk at the expense.

I still prefer paper and pencils (#2 of course)

[OzarkDem]

41. optical scanners are the best solution

they're cheaper and easier to get out and set up at polling places to fill gaps on election day. As long as central tabulating computer systems aren't compromised, they should work well.

[dkofos]

49. But they have been compromised.

PAPER AND PENCIL

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

18. Have to keep that powder dry.

It's over there, in that cool dark closet. Along with THEM.

[robinlynne]

21. unfortunately you are right. even worse, the 2 dem bills are DANGEROUS. They

legitimize direct recording devices, for a start...

[dkofos]

24. Agreed. The voting machines must go. And I include the electronic

scanners as voting machines.

PAPER AND PENCIL

[flyarm]

36. what do you call legitimizing ???????

legitimize direct recording devices???

you are kidding aren't you..or do you just not get it?????????.....we already have them..we have already had our election stolen by them since 2002...what part of that do you not get yet?

huh?? what part of that do you not get???????

no possiblity of an audit..no possibility at alllllllllll!!!of knowing where 18,000 votes dissapeared to????????

votes flipping from one district to another 45 minute drive away??????????

what part of that do you not get?????

and now?????????

we are stuck with this shit!

thanks alot!

for nothing
fly

[Wilms]

39. I agree with you.

While I appreciate aspects of the opposition to the bill, the idea that it will "legitimize direct recording devices" is a big "WTF are they talking about?" to me.

[robinlynne]

67. The bills allow electronic voting. That is a way of saying that electronic voting is

a legitimate form of voting, which it is NOT. Adding paper to a dre doesn't help. And as we now know, audits won't fix it either. DREs must be banned, period. if we want honest elections. Even computer experts say so.

[Wilms]

75. Electronic voting is here and predates HAVA.

Quit acting like the Holt bill introduces it or mandates it.

It's like the idiots who claim HAVA mandates e-voting.

Wanting it banned is one thing, saying 811 legitimizes it is ridiculous.

[flyarm]

77. AND HOLT WOULD HAVE BANNED DRE'S..PERIOD!!..NOW??

OH YES NOW WE HAVE THEM HERE TO STAY TILL WHAT 2012?? and do you really think we will get rid of them then?? oh pleaseeeeeeeeeee

we have been trying to get rid of them in fla since 2002..now the rest of you will have thme until 2012...and do you honestly think after 2008 is stolen you will get rid of them...no you won't...

like a pigs ass you will get rid of them!

keep dreaming..and keep dreaming you will get paper ballots with a pen or pencil..it is not going to happen.

that is a pipe dream!

so when the sob's steal congress and the senate and the presidency again..just how are you going to get rid of the dre's??????????

to me now giving money to a dem candidate..will be like spitting in the wind!!

fly

[dorkulon]

82. Try being a little more coherent.

If you're saying Holt banned DRE's, you're wrong. But frankly I can't tell what the hell you're trying to say.

[robinlynne]

84. NO it would not. read it. Holt made a compromise and had the vendors give input

to his bill. (diebold, es&s)

[robinlynne]

66. You're making my point. which is that the current democratic proposals (bills) are

uselss because they okay electronic voting, including holt's bill and Feinstein's bill.
so you agree with me, but you're mad...

[flyarm]

79. so how long has your state been trying to get rid of the dre's??????????

and how long has your state votes been robbed by the dre's???????

how many audits of dre's have you been through??????

how many worthless tests have you been through with the dre's????????? actually doing the test??????? and watching the votes swap before your eyes and then the newspapers say nothing went wrong in the test..how many times have you been through it before you get it?????????

how many audits has your money paid for that are worthless??????????..and impossible to say the least!

how many times have you been a poll watcher and seen people frustrated because they can't get their votes to go for the candidate they want to vote for???????????

how many times have you cried and cried because you know an election has been stolen once again???????????

when does anyone get it???????

now we are all stuck with dre's because of some stupid asses that wanted something that isn't perfect right this moment..that they knew would never be achieved over night.,.. but would have gotten rid of the worst machines of all..the dre's.

welcome to amerika..because that is now what we are and will be through 2012

fly

[robinlynne]

83. the holt bill would maintain dres.

[Swamp Rat]

22. I guess they expect there to be no elections in 2008.

Why fix it if we aren't going to use it anymore? :eyes:

I guess elections will be just for show, for the Stoopid Murkins.

[dkofos]

25. Maybe we can dip our middle fingers in blue ink and show everyone

how we voted!!

[leftofthedial]

26. now there's a great strategy

the Washington Generals strike again

[ecstatic]

29. Pretty much the nail in the coffin

I will continue to exercise my right to vote--I at least owe it to my ancestors. But I am cold. So cold.

[depakid]

30. I don't think there's a single issue that these cowards won't punt away.

[flyarm]

34. well its what bev harris wanted isn't it..and does anyone wonder who she is working for now?????????

some people here should be very proud of themselves..they got what they wanted..to stop election reform..and many of us are still stuck with dre's..with no chance of our votes counted!!

and more stolen elections with no possibility of audits,..none, zero..zip, zilch....and no possibility of even knowing if our votes are being counted..tests of the dre's that are wirthless less than worthless!

...some should be very proud of themselves..me i am just pissed beyond words!

i just wonder who some of these people arw on the payroll of..well i do know who some are on the payroll of...bev harris..who sold clinton cigars..and who stole our money ..by a million!

fla voter... who has had enough of this shit!

fly

oh and don't even think i will respond to the assholes who were in part responsible for this..you know who you are..and many of us know who you are!! you are not worthy of my response to you!!

[Wilms]

40. Way too broad a brush.

The idea that the bill would have survived if it weren't for the opposition it recieved from the ER community is wishful thinking.

As you said, you are "just pissed beyond words!".

I understand...and it shows.

[flyarm]

52. oh and all the letter by bev harris meant what??????????

yes i am pissed beyond words!!

a fla voter..who has put up money for bogus audits that can't be done..and are meaningless at best!



fly

[Wilms]

65. So Bev writes a letter to BoE's and they decide to complain about the bill?

I have a hard time seeing them doing anything but throwing her screed in the garbage.

And I'm surprised that so many here will show her enough respect to assume she did much of anything of consequence.

I'm not defending Bev. Tossing her name around, and around the neck of anyone questioning the bill's wisdom is what has caught my attention.

Being pissed at Bev ripoffs is one thing. Conflating it inappropriately with current issues, quite another.

I get it that you're pissed. And I don't mean to kill your enjoyment.

[Recursion]

37. "Better technology" emerged centuries ago

And it's called a damn pencil and piece of paper.

[dkofos]

38. How soon they forget!!

[EFerrari]

42. We're NOT gonna take it.

Please look for an action thread to question this decision.

Two stolen Federal eletions is ENOUGH. We won't lay back for more.

:nuke:

[Disturbed]

43. The Two Party System Sucks!

Amerika needs real Electoral Over Hall.

1.Uniform Ballot Access
2.Loosen Third Party Ballot Restrictions
3.Universal Voter Registration
4.Election Day Holiday
5.Equal Media Access/Debate Inclusion
6.Instant Runoff Voting (IRV)
7.Secure Voting Machines
8.Public Campaign Financing
9.Direct Popular Vote Election of the President
10.DC Congressional Representation

[EFerrari]

45. Truly! As much as it may dismay Democrats, third parties make

YOUR VOTE more valuable.

[flyarm]

53. 2??????????? come on down to florida!!...

try 4...

eom
fly

[EFerrari]

58. I hear you, fly and so respect your work in FL.

I've hands full trying to get our rep's attention here in Pelosi's district.

It's not pretty right now. :(

[flyarm]

60. seems nobody hears us..they just listen to that liar & cheat bev harris !!

i have had it!!

stupidity rules again!

i give up..i really do...

since 2000 i have worked my ass off..and have put a ton of $$$$$$$$$ into trying to protect our vote..why?????

what a fucking waste of time and money..and yes i have put my money where my mouth is..and yes i have put my ass on the line.and my volunteered time..and effort..for what??

for a bunch of people that are clueless?

no more i am done!

fly

[EFerrari]

61. You've seen that Mr. Conyers is asking for three more reps

before starting impeachment?

Hang with me, dear fly. This is a goddam rocky road but we are winning, slowly, but it is happening.

Imagine what it's like here -- when all our liberal Co. Supes lobby nearly daily at our Federal building -- where Nancy's office is. Imagine Code Pink wracking their brains for anything that will move this project forward.

I swear, there are too many women working this for it to fail. Hang in, dear fly.

[flyarm]

70. yeah right!!..and Russ calls for censure!!..and away we go to more stolen elections

and more and more tyranny by these mtf'ers..and who is our worst enemys...us!

who puts out all the stops to stop legislation to get rid of dre's and steal more of our elections..those among us!!

fuck that and fuck them!

and they very well know who they are!!

i am done..no more of my money..no more of my time..

i am going to the beach..they have had 7 years of my life..i am done!

fly

[Bluebear]

44. Grand. Is this what Reid says the Senate is "too busy to impeach" over?

Guess not.

[yurbud]

46. maybe they made their own deal with the companies.

[dkofos]

47. That would be my guess. Maybe we should ask Lieberman??

[yurbud]

48. He was probably part of the old deal

[dkofos]

50. They make a new deal for every election (selection)??

That must be pretty lucrative for the DRE companies.

[yurbud]

51. probably long term contracts

[Marr]

54. The GOP breathes a collective sigh of relief, and salivates at the thought of

four more years of the Politburo.

[EFerrari]

63. It won't happen. We've built an infrastructure to monitor

their election thievery.

[flyarm]

72. no kidding! eom

[walldude]

55. I can't for the life of me figure out why certain people

look at me like I shot their dog when I claim the Dems are blowing smoke up my ass by telling me they have much more important business than Impeachment. Business like voting reform guys? *Sigh*

[bigwillq]

56. This is a huge disappointment

This was one of the top issues I wanted the new DEM Congress to address. :mad:

[Marr]

59. I am convinced that the only way we'll ever see election reform

is if election fraud gives the Green Party major representation. Democrats and Republicans alike would be all over it.

[dkofos]

64. I don't think the Greens have the money it would take to buy an election.

But I guess they could try!!

[sakabatou]

62. Yes! Let's have another Fla. debacle

:sarcasm:

[flyarm]

71. we have had 4 elections of this shit in fla...and bev harris and her cohorts say no to getting rid

of dre's after she came to our state and fucked us big time..

well no more..

i am done with these bastards!

and i am taking no prisoners!!

fly

[NoodleyAppendage]

69. That's it. WE DESERVE TO LOSE. I'm so friggin' sick of do-nothing Dems.

I will have no sympathy for our Dem field if another election is stolen. I'm convinced that the Dem leadership does NOT understand that they are fighting sociopaths with little regard for the law or Congressional decorum. We're in a street fight and Dems are still giving the criminals the "benefit of the doubt." ENOUGH!

J

[JacquesMolay]

74. This really makes me sick. It just screams 'SYSTEM'.

They think that they're going to take over the system, so all of a sudden, everything is fine. These are the moments I wish for a third party.

[blues90]

80. why am I not surprised .

[defendandprotect]

81. The "NO" party -- no warning on Iran, no defunding of war, no impeachment --

no paper ballots & pens -- too complicated to work out for 2008 -- !!!!

But . . . YES!!! to Republican black box voting --

[madokie]

85. and they will do it so much more out in the open this next time

because by our inaction we in effect condone it

[Javaman]

86. Okay, so the dems say they won't impeach because that would take away from

pursuing the business of the nation.

this was one of the hot button issues, election reform, that they were supposed to take care of. One of their "promises".

are they now going to say that election reform would take away from the business of the nation?

what did we elect these idiots for back in november? Are they the one platform party? get out of iraq? are they not capable of actually doing more than one thing at a time?

so as their "promises" are whittled away, we are left with all night sessions to push through an Iraq bill that was known to fail.

call me crazy, but given the latest line of bullshit from the right, it looks as if we are going to be there until the next election.

Sooooooo, wouldn't that beg the question of, if we impeach, wouldn't that perhaps accelerate the removal of the troops from iraq?

I'm just sick to death over all of these various delay tactics.

So let's recap shall we?

No impeachment.

No leaving Iraq.

No election reform.

hearings that go no where.

and ignored subpoenas? (by the way, what ever happened with rice's subpoena? vanished like a fart in the wind).

I will now hear the tired arguments of, "it takes time to get the votes", me prediction, they (whom ever "they" are) will get the votes needed just in time for the 08 elections.

How conveeeeeeeeeeeeenient.

I've worn a flat spot on my head :banghead: