Men Against Domestic Violence

[Madspirit]

Men Against Domestic Violence

http://www.silcom.com/~paladin/madv/faq-dv.html

QUESTION: Is there very much family violence in the United States?

ANSWER: This is difficult to answer since violence occurs behind closed doors. However, a national random sample of households (Strauss, Steinmetz, 1980) showed that almost 4% of American families experienced severe physical violence of a degree that had the statistical probability of inflicting injury or death upon the victim (stabbed, gun used, beat up, punched). In 1980 that figure equaled over two million persons per year. Current data show four million victims per year.

However, if more common forms of violence are considered, such as slapping, scratching, punching, and shoving, then the estimate is 26% of American households experience this (Richard Gelles, 1974). Such violence often accounts for 50% of calls to police on late-night shifts.

In Santa Barbara, there are around 150 domestic violence calls to police EACH MONTH.


QUESTION: Is this violence "really" serious?

ANSWER: Information from the National Victimization Survey indicates that assault by a family member is more likely to cause injury than assault by a stranger:

23% of stranger assaults involved injury to victim, while 57% of spousal assaults involve such injury.
7% of stranger assaults require medical attention, while 24% of spousal assaults require such attention.
Information from 256 women who contacted Santa Barbara's Shelter Services for Women showed women's injuries included: black eyes, bruises, broken teeth, cracked ribs, broken nose, fractured jaw and two women had miscarriages due to violence.


QUESTION: Does a "marriage license" lead to violence?

ANSWER: While it is common to hear that a "marriage license is a hitting license," having or not having a marriage license is no protection against violence.

Information from 139 women who came to Shelter Services for Women 72% married; 14% live-in but not married; 6% separated or divorced.


QUESTION: Do battered women have a lot of kids?

ANSWER: Here again there is a common stereotype that battered women have many children. Information from women residing in Shelter Services for Women concluded that 79% had children, 21% did not. Of those women who had children, the average was 1-2 children per woman. The stereotype of a woman coming into the Shelter with 6 or 7 children does not hold.


QUESTION: Does violence only happen among poor people or among persons of a specified race?

ANSWER: Domestic violence is not a class issue or an economic issue. It cuts across all people in equal representation to the population:

Of the women who have resided in the Shelter: 63% were Caucasian, 25% were Latina, 9% were Black. This is in proportion of these individuals in the general Santa Barbara population.

Women who use the Shelter have "nowhere else to go." A woman with an independent income might have resources to get out of town, go to a motel, etc., but quite often is in great emotional distress, potential physical harm, and needs a safe, supportive environment to sort things out.


QUESTION: You're assuming women are the victims. Don't women hit?

ANSWER: Yes, indeed women use assaultive behaviors. Research on a national, random sample of households (Strauss, Steinmetz, Gelles, 1980) seems to show that women are as equally likely as men to hit. However, when you look at who gets "hurt" the story changes. Analysis of police reports in Santa Barbara, California indicated that in 90% (in instances where injuries were noted) the injuries were women only. In the remaining 10%, both parties had injuries. In all cases where both parties had injuries, the woman's injuries were more severe than the man's.

Second, there are issues of long-term victimization. When a relationship breaks up, the general finding is that the man will keep his job, the woman will keep the children.

[Maddy McCall]

1. Myth; "It can never happen to me."

Truth: It can happen to ANYONE.

[Madspirit]

2. Yup

People like to distance themselves from it by claiming the people who do it are somehow different from them. Not true. It crosses class, race, ethnic origin, etc.

Lee

[Maddy McCall]

4. Or that they are "strong women" who are immune...

to "allowing" themselves to be treated "that" way.

Many women who say that it could never happen to them do not understand the emotional, psychological manipulation that precedes the battering.

[RB TexLa]

7. It can happen to anyone once. Then you chose if you are going to live with a criminal or not

[Maddy McCall]

8. Not that simple.

If it were, then there'd be many fewer women involved in abusive marriages and relationships.

[RB TexLa]

9. Yes it is that simple. People get up and leave these situations everyday

Some drive off in BMW's some in Fords. Some get on a bus, some simply start walking. Some have millions in the bank some don't have a dime in their pocket but yes people do choose to not live with a criminal and leave. I've seen and talked to them.

[Maddy McCall]

11. What about the women who CAN'T leave?

I stayed in it for four years. Does that imply that I have some kind of character flaw, that I wasn't "strong" enough?

Do you understand the kind of emotional and psychological manipulation that precedes the physical abuse? Do you understand that the abuser purposefully isolates the woman from those who love and care about her? Do you understand the utter control that abused women experience?

I'm not saying that some don't leave early on. I'm saying that many don't, and it's not to be viewed as a weakness.

[gollygee]

13. Well you have to have a plan, and you have to have some self-esteem

not all women have someplace to go, and being beaten and emotionally abused for a while hits the self-esteem pretty hard.

Please don't blame the victim. It isn't her fault she's being abused.

[Maddy McCall]

18. And you have to have some money, and some support from...

someone nearby.

I moved two states away when I married my husband. I had NO ONE. No friends, no family...when I approached his mother about the abuse, she said to me, "You have to quit making him mad." Come to find out, she was in no position to give advice to me, because she was in a long-term abusive marriage.

I had nothing. We weren't "poor," but he controlled all assets. If I spoke up for myself, he threatened infidelity (which I've come to see is a tool that many abusers use against their wives). If I would have left, I would have had nowhere to go. Though I am a native Texan, I knew NO ONE in that part of Texas. After my husband stabbed me and broke two of my ribs, I called my landlord out of desperation. She took me to the hospital, and my ex-husband was arrested.

The sheriff of the county called my father that day, and told him to come get me, or they'd be sending me back to Mississippi in a body bag. I had hidden the abuse from my family as well as I could, because I didn't want them to see me as a failure. My mom and dad came and got me the next day--they loaded the U-Haul...and moved me home.

Before I left Texas, I filed for divorce. My lawyer asked me to have a pregnancy test, which I did at the doctor's office, and I found out that I was pregnant with my son. I left Texas pregnant. I knew that the only way the baby would live would be if I left, because I had had multiple miscarriages prior to this pregnancy, all determined by my OB to be due to abuse. After my son was born, a guardian ad litem spoke for my son in court and presented photos of the abuse I had suffered to the judge. My ex-husband's parental rights were terminated on the spot.

Before I married this man, I was educated. I owned my own home, and had considerable assets, which eventually were piddled away to keep us financially afloat and to keep him out of jail. I had, until midway through the marriage, been self-sufficent, employed in a well-paying occupation, and had never been abused in the past by any significant other. But there are so many complexities in abusive relationships that people who've never been through it just can't understand.

If you had talked to me before I met this man, you would have labeled me a "strong woman." But the emotional and psychological manipulation I went through totally changed me...my friends would not have recognized the person I became during that marriage. I look back and wonder, "Who was that?" The woman that I am today is, on one hand, ashamed that I tolerated what I was put through; on the other hand, I am PROUD of what I survived. I am a survivor. I am not embarrassed that I was victimized at his hands. HE is to blame, not me.

I know how he did it, now. I deal with the resultant PTSD, but I also deal with "red-flag syndrome." If a guy asks me out, and he even vaguely has characteristics of my ex-husband, I turn him down flat. I like the me that I am now. The me that will never chance entering an abusive relationship again. The strong woman that I have BECOME, through this whole experience.

I think that many women who go into relationships that end up being abusive haven't spent a lot of time thinking about boundaries. That's the biggest change in who I am now. I have huge boundaries...I guess part of that is PTSD, but part of it is self-preservation.

Does he still call me 13 years later? Yes. To this day I have to be on guard. I might drive up in my driveway and find him sitting at the gate. I don't talk to him at all. I contact the authorities and they are very protective of me, here in my hometown.

When I was in Texas, his family was friends with the constable, judges, etc., so I was on his turf. He used that against me. In many places, women are dependent on law enforcement officials, who to this day view domestic violence as an issue to be handled in the home instead of in the courts--that's the situation I was in in that part of Texas. Where I live now, it's my turf, and he won't ever be able to touch me again. Of that, I am very certain.

Sorry for the lengthy post.

[gollygee]

24. .

:hug:

I'm glad you got out.

[Maddy McCall]

43. Me, too!

Thank you.

:hug:

[Chovexani]

41. Thank you for sharing this

People who blame abuse survivors for their abuse are no better than the abusers, IMO. The lack of empathy is astounding.

I'm so glad you got out of that situation. :hug:

[Maddy McCall]

44. Thank you.

Yes...I'm always appalled to read it at DU.

:hug:

[nam78_two]

46. Thank you for sharing that

That is terrible! It is good that you got out.

[Madspirit]

14. Most Abused Women

Most fucking certainly cannot get up and leave. It's like Helsinki syndrome. You are an idiot if you believe most can leave of their own volition. So you think the ones who die want to die? Go take a psychology course...stat. You need it desperately. One abused woman I know...the man had her completely totally convinced that there was NO place she could go where he could not find her. Period. He would hunt her down to the ends of the Earth, she was convinced. She is now dead. Go visit a battered women's shelter. Ask the women how many times it happened before they left. Go back a week later and see how many have returned to the men who are killing them. Helsinki syndrome. I cannot believe how incredibly stupid and in denial some men are.
Lee

[RB TexLa]

16. I made no mention of genders of the criminals or victims

Nor did I say it was easy to leave.

[bettyellen]

19. "Yes it is that simple. " So by simple you meant- not at all easy?? LOL.....

Unfuckingbelievable bullshit.

[RB TexLa]

22. You do not think not living with a criminal is the answer? What would you think someone should do?

You would tell them not to leave? That is the simple answer, since you disagree with people leaving what is your answer?

[Maddy McCall]

25. You truly have no knowledge of the complexities of domestic violence issues.

No one WANTS a woman to stay in a violent marriage.

But most posters in this thread are educated enough on the topic to realize that extricating one's self from such a relationship is a difficult thing to do, not as cut-and-dried as you think it is.

I'll trust my experience on this topic over your opinion. Thanks.

[RB TexLa]

27. I never said it can't be hard to do, I just said that it is the answer.

[Maddy McCall]

28. Duh.

But getting from being a victim to being a survivor is something that is extraordinarily difficult to do. And it takes more time for most women than you are willing to allow them.

[bettyellen]

32. oh no maddy- it's simple like a nike ad, doncha know- "just do it" bolen wasn;t being dismissive

or facile and now he's not being deliberately opague, right?

[Maddy McCall]

33. Of course it's that easy, bettyellen.

What was I thinking!

How dare me make excuses for weak women. :eyes:

[bettyellen]

35. another dude comes to a thread like this to intentionally belittle women- and like so many

i bet he claims he believes in feminism- is on our side, etc.
i'm thinking- not so much, ya know?
not nearly as much as they give themselves credit for.
good on you, maddy.
:hug:

[ismnotwasm]

34. Let me tell you a story

There once was a deaf women. She could only communicate with her hands in ASL. Her partner abused her regularly. Controlled assets. Controlled who she communicated with. Threatened her family. One day, neighbors heard a commotion and called the police. When the arrived they found a hearing person, calm and sensible appearing telling them this hysterical women waving her hands around had attacked him.

They took her to jail. It was over 24 hours before she got out.

Yes, it's a true story.
And in one form or the other, not as uncommon as you might think in the deaf community.

Just something to think about maybe?

[Corgigal]

37. actually its the time most likely

that the woman will be injured seriously. When I worked 911 and a woman was telling me she was leaving the relationship I would always warn it that this is more dangerous time. I can't tell you how many calls we went to when the woman was at a friends, or with family and the soon to be ex was stalking her or worst. I took a 911 call when the woman, who was pregnant, left her husband and he broke through the window and shot her twice in the house. She did get outside but he killed her in the driveway like a dog. The coward was found later, dead at a local park.

Heres some info from other sources;

Leaving an abusive relationship does not guarantee an end to the abuse; rather, the abuse often escalates at the time of separation. The majority of domestic violence murder-suicides occur after the victim has tried to leave the relationship. The fact that many victims do leave or seek help is truly remarkable in light of the many barriers they face.

http://dvcc.delaware.gov/dynamics.html

[noamnety]

52. Bolding that one part

The majority of domestic violence murder-suicides occur after the victim has tried to leave the relationship.

Taking action against someone who is trying to control you escalates their anger. That's something women in abusive relationships learn early on.

[bobbolink]

30. You're right on target. Our society sets up so many blocks.

Your experience is to be trusted over judgement *any* day!

[bettyellen]

31. you are dismissive of women in ths position and now you're baccktracking and clouding the

isse and putting word in my mouth. not exactly honest.
so c ya.

[RB TexLa]

36. I have made no mention of gender in referring to either victims or criminals

[bettyellen]

39. wow, you minimize the serious nature of the thread, and ignore the point of my posts, twice

why is this all about you?
i bet you think you support feminism too.

[RB TexLa]

40. I have not minimized crime at all

[bettyellen]

42. you chose to be dismissive when you oversimplied how easy it is to leave w/ "just do it"

why bother to come to this thread and act as if these women can solve their problems with a snap of their fingers.
seriously- why is your knee jerk reaction to belittle the dileemna these women find themselves in?

[bobbolink]

29. You set up the premise, so you can judge.

Also keeps you "safe"

[Scout]

54. why SHOULD the woman leave?

SHE's not the one doing anything wrong ...

HE needs to stop beating her and be a normal person, or be in jail if he is a danger to others.

[EFerrari]

45. You bet!

:hug:

[Madspirit]

3. I am just kicking myself here...n/t

[dsc]

5. A truely intractible problem

The always arrest always prosecute solution works for a time but then leads to women being less willing to call police. I know it isn't the same thing but my brother, who was four years older than I, used to abuse me quite often. I was afraid to tell due to fear of what he would do to me if I did. That dynamic must be even worse when you are responsible for yourself and others. At least this is usually treated seriously now. That wasn't always the case.

[DeSwiss]

6. I DEPLORE men who use violence and/or intimidation....

...against women and I've always been this way. My parents divorced when I was seven, but on this issue they both raised their children to understand this fact. I've been married almost 28 years and the only violence in my marriage was when I gave my usual smart-alecky answer to Missus DeSwiss one day and she threw half a banana at me.

She missed, but I had to clean it up.

And I've been involved in property management for almost 30 years as well. And I've more times than I'd like to, found myself caught between warring spouses and boy/girlfriends. Its a difficult issue when you believe someone is being abused and want to help. When I have, I'm usually told to mind my own business. I can take that. What I couldn't take would be if she were injured or worse, and know that maybe I could have help prevent it, but did nothing....

DeSwiss

K&R!!!

[Maddy McCall]

12. If you know that a woman is being abused...

and if you witness that abuse, ALWAYS call the police. The woman might hate you for it at the moment, but in the future, after she leaves the abuser, she will remember you fondly.

:hug:

[DeSwiss]

15. That's the position I take....

...and I have had one woman to later thank me. She eventually moved away from the unit she rented from me. Primarily for their safety. But she was alive and so were her two daughters. I felt good knowing that.

As for the guy involved, I would see him on occasion and he would glower at me, but that's all. Men who do such things are basically cowards who take out their frustrations on someone weaker than themselves, I've found.

But I still watch my back....

[Maddy McCall]

20. You are a good man, DeSwiss.

Wish you'd have lived near me, when I was going through it.

:hug:

[DeSwiss]

21. I can think of no greater epitath for anyone to leave behind....

Thank you.

:)

[Swamp Rat]

10. Spouse abuse is ANTI-family values.

Why haven't the refucklicans tried to sponsor legislation that:

BANS ABUSIVE MEN FROM EVER MARRYING AGAIN!!!

Where are those family values now?

fuckers

[DeSwiss]

17. Because doing so....

...would invite objections from the Fundies, whose votes they MUST have. And besides, its their god's will that a woman be submissive to her husband.

Okay, I'm going to go throw-up now....

[Swamp Rat]

23. Sounds more like Dobson's will.

[lumberjack_jeff]

26. Thanks for posting this. n/t

[Drum]

38. Thank you for posting the link.

The more we all know, the better we can make this world.

[undergroundpanther]

47. And don't forget

Hitting is not the ONLY kind of abuse Emotional abuse hurts sometimes more.


Emotional abuse is what enables the physical,

If abuse was ok and the perpetrator innocent and such why does he fail to show potential girl friends his ugly side the first date? Beat the crap out of her the first date Because he knows shed leave him if he did that on the first date No he uses emotional abuse subtle at first increases the cruelty as he isolates the woman than when he is sure he has her believing she is captive he begins hitting testing her than getting more brutal. These kid of men are pathetic and weak and they hit because they have control issues because they know they are a big fat zero inside..

Abuse goes in a cycle,and many women are loyal beyond all reason because they have traumatically bonded with the abuser to survive.trying to make the monster be nice. A woman who believes she is trapped for all intents and purposes is in a hostage situation and nobody realizes it.

Women in these situations maybe grew up in houses where abuse was normal and don't know anything else,not knowing how to draw healthy boundaries to protect self. They don't know how to say no, or to defend their own inner core from a controlling ass wipe , They don't don't know how to recognize a psychopath narcissistic ,morbidly jealous, control freak or authoritarian personality types.


All people need an education on what abuse is, the kinds of abuse there,what the situation looks like, are and what kind of person does it ,and how to make healthy boundaries,and how to emotionally,physically and sexually protect oneself against abusers.

Here are some good links on this if you do not know.

I highly reccommend this site.Do get get her email newsletters and her books and workbooks .There's a wealth of practical useful info!!I am saving up to order copies of her stuff for where I go to counseling.
http://www.howtospotadangerousman.com/

Bullies
http://www.bullyonline.org/

This guy reacts like I do to psychopaths. The article it begins rather humorous to me, but the topic is anything but humorous. Hare's studies should be taught as required classes in every school every year getting more sophisticated until kids are armed with this knowledge..If we all knew to spot a psychopath at fifty paces and knew how to protect ourselves would Bush be president? I think not!

PSYCHOPATHS AMONG US
Dr. Robert Hare claims there are 300,000 psychopaths in Canada, but that only a tiny fraction are violent offenders like Paul Bernardo and Clifford Olsen. Who are the rest? Take a look around By Robert Hercz

"Psychopath! psychopath!"
I'm alone in my living room and I'm yelling at my TV. "Forget rehabilitation -- that guy is a psychopath."

http://www.hare.org/links/saturday.html

Online ebook of Hare's out of print classic , The mask of sanity (FREE!!!)
http://www.cassiopaea.com/cassiopaea/psychopath.htm
What is Ponerology Look and find out.
http://ponerology.blogspot.com/

I don't agree with everything on the cassiopaea site but they got their shit together concerning psychopathy.
About nacissism
http://www.narcissism101.com/
http://www.angelfire.com/zine2/narcissism/

Authoritarians
http://www.psychnet-uk.com/clinical_psychology/personality_disorders_anti_social.htm
http://patriotboy.blogspot.com/2007/07/authoritarian-personality-vs.html
http://www.prisonexp.org/

Morbid Jealousy
http://www.mindpub.com/art315.htm
http://www.priory.com/psychiatry/Morbid_Jealousy.htm


Boundaries
http://www.coping.org/innerhealing/boundary.htm#What
http://concernedcounseling.com/Communities/Relationships/serendipity/topics/topic004.htm
Traumatic bonding captivity and stockholm syndrome

Emotional abuse
ttp://www.lilaclane.com/relationships/emotional-abuse/links.html
http://preventchildabuse.com/emotion.htm
http://www.womanabuseprevention.com/html/emotional_abuse.html

cycle of abuse
http://www.drirene.com/cyclesof.htm

About Abuse in GBLT relationships and help.Abuse does not only happen to straights!!
http://www.journalism.sfsu.edu/www/pubs/prism/dec97/P3.violence.html
http://www.lambda.org/DV_background.htm
http://www.aardvarc.org/dv/gay.shtml
http://www.youth-suicide.com/gay-bisexual/links8a.htm
For transgender too..
http://www.heartcorps.com/journeys/letters11.htm
http://www.mincava.umn.edu/documents/lgbtqviolence/lgbtqviolence.html

Help if someone YOU know is in an abusive relatitonship
http://www.mensadviceline.org.uk/information-for-friends-and-relatives.htm
http://www.womansavers.com/forum-for-women/support-for-women/4/14466.html

Help if YOU are in an abusive relationship
http://www.stoprelationshipabuse.org/abused.html
http://www.justicewomen.com/tips_escape.html
http://www.webheights.net/GrowingbeyondEmotionalAbuse/
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/42520/the_battered_womans_how_to_guide_to.html
Resources
http://www.artistshelpingchildren.org/shelters.html
http://4homeless.hypermart.net/soup_kitchens.html
http://www.shelterforthehomeless.org/
http://guide2homelessness.blogspot.com/2004/11/finding-parking-place.html
http://www.e-junkie.com/shop/product/37357.php
http://www.dumpsterdiving.net/
Freestores! Consider setting up one of these in YOUR neighborhood!
http://www.freestorebaltimore.org/
http://www.citypaper.com/news/story.asp?id=10359
Homeless youth GBLT survival help
http://www.lambdalegal.org/take-action/tool-kits/getting-down-to-basics/homeless-youth.html

Pro bono (free lawyers)
http://www.dcbar.org/for_lawyers/pro_bono/index.cfm
http://www.probonomd.org/current.html
http://www.dcbar.org/for_lawyers/pro_bono/about_the_program/serving_the_community/divorce.cfm
Other help
http://mentalhealth.samhsa.gov/hotlines/
http://www.onourownmd.org/

A thought,Hey Skinner a request.. do ya think, Maybe DU could put together an education and resource link page that has a very visible box thing one can click on , somewhere on the site where the discussions are happening that makes it easy to access and find this information. There is alot of abuse going on and people constantly refer to these types of sites to help and educate.Put a disclaimer on it if you want to. But what about making a link to a bunch of links to send people right to this information, and the other important links about abuse psychopathy and such. And Links to get real help from shelters to food banks and counseling and statistics..ect.ect..Because all people NEED to know this stuff. It could happen to anyone ,And Sometimes thier LIVES depend on knowing it.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

48. "that women are as equally likely as men to hit"

Finally. An article on this topic that actually acknowledges that. I mean, HOW flamed did I get from the closed minded extremists when I said that once? Color me shocked that the same very statement is now used in one their OP topics. AMAZING! LOL

Other than that comment, the article was good. Nothing overly extreme or exaggerated, nothing sexist or demeaning, just simply informative and fair.

Domestic violence is most definitely a huge largely hidden problem within our society that needs more awareness and control.

[Madspirit]

49. "However, when you look at who gets "hurt" the story changes. "

...and the rest of that paragraph is:

However, when you look at who gets "hurt" the story changes. Analysis of police reports in Santa Barbara, California indicated that in 90% (in instances where injuries were noted) the injuries were women only. In the remaining 10%, both parties had injuries. In all cases where both parties had injuries, the woman's injuries were more severe than the man's.

Second, there are issues of long-term victimization. When a relationship breaks up, the general finding is that the man will keep his job, the woman will keep the children.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

50. I've Never Claimed Otherwise. In Fact, I've Claimed The Exact Same.

But it was the notion of "that women are as equally likely as men to hit" itself, that I got bumrushed by a class of gradeschoolers for having said it. Just acknowledging that point itself made the rabid ones lunge as if I just ate their first born. But whenever I've acknowledged that I also have always stated that though that is true, the incidents of injury or death are far more likely with men vs women, for obvious reasons.

Just sayin... I was quite pleased and downright shocked to have seen it in the OP. Kudos.

[noamnety]

51. excepting your post directly above this.

whenever I've acknowledged that I also have always stated that though that is true, the incidents of injury or death are far more likely with men vs women, for obvious reasons.

;)

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

53. Didn't Need To Here, Since The Context Was Obvious.

Since I'm not declaring it myself this time, but instead referencing the article itself that stated it AND the other fact at the same time, there was no need for the caveat.

I wasn't making the declaration here, I was simply granting approval of its use in the article. Therefore, your half witted attempt to catch me in a 'gotcha' is really quite foolish and unnecessary. But feel free to be as nitpicky and petty as ya want. :hi: