Impeachment question divides Democrats

[babylonsister]

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0707/5058.html

Impeachment question divides Democrats

By: Dan Gerstein
Jul 22, 2007 08:54 AM EST


While most Democratic activist eyes will be on the first ever YouTube debate in South Carolina on Monday, an equally novel and potentially more consequential clash will be taking place that day in Washington, when peace queen Cindy Sheehan comes to town to declare war on House Speaker Nancy Pelosi.

Two weeks ago, Sheehan threatened to launch a primary campaign against Pelosi in her San Francisco district unless Pelosi agreed to begin the process of impeachment against President Bush by July 23—the day Sheehan wraps up her latest anti-war protest tour with a publicity raid on the Capitol.

The speaker’s spokesman confirmed a few days ago that impeachment remains “off the table.” So on Monday, we can expect the gloves to come off between the left’s two leading ladies.

It will be tempting to write this off as just another piece of attention-getting street theater by Sheehan—who just two months ago announced she was retiring from the protest movement —or your run of the mill, fringe-fueled family feud that Democrats once were famous for. But to do so would be to oversimplify what this spat is about and underestimate why it matters.

The reality is that the coming Golden Gate Bridge Brawl is a pivotal proxy fight—similar to but bigger than the recent family squabble over the Fox debate—for a much bigger existential conflict within the Democratic Party between the D.C. establishment and the grassroots. Hanging in the balance is not just next year’s national election, but long-term control of the Democratic brand.

This conflict, which, unlike most recent intra-party dust-ups, is largely about tactics and tone, not issues and ideas, has been simmering ever since Howard Dean launched his campaign to take back the party in 2003. It was put on the back burner last year as Democrats united to win back both houses of Congress.

But eight months after that power-shifting election, the natives are beyond restless. Many progressive activists are incredulous at the inability of the congressional leadership to end the war, move big pieces of their agenda and (not least of all) defenestrate The Decider. Their frustration is starting to boil over.

more...

[porphyrian]

1. Yeah, no shit. - n/t

[DKRC]

4. Pithy!

:applause:

[porphyrian]

21. I try.

;)

[Robson]

2. Democrats are also divided on immigration and taxes

There are two issues that divide Democrats. Impeachment and amnesty / immigration policy. Most Democrats by a wide margin oppose amnesty. As with impeachment it's the party leaders that aren't in tune. I'm also not convinced that the DLC favors taxing the super rich that have skimmed so much off the US economy in the last two decades to the sacrifice of most Americans, as part of HR2834.

[DeSwiss]

3. Depending on what happens in September....

...this is a wound that if not tended to and at least in the process of healing, could hurt certain Dems, particularly on the immigration issue. I have a friend who is a dyed-in-the-wool Dem but who constantly sends me emails that are derogatory on the issue of immigration. He lives in California.

As well as the issue of impeachment. Most progressives see this as a "heart and soul" issue. An issue that defines what we are all about. But we're told, in a quite off-putting way, that its not on the table. End of discussion. In my experience, Dems don't generally like being talk down to. And that's how I feel Pelosi is talking to us.

Sheehan may or may not run, and may or may not beat her. But the wounds will only deepen and it will only convince us even more that these old-style Dems need to retire. Even if its with our help.

K&R!!!

[bobbolink]

7. More important, lack of impeachment damages the NATION.

Country trumps party.

[DeSwiss]

10. And damage us in the worst possible way....

...as WillPitt said in his post yesterday, America will look the same, but everything will be different. And we will lose our right to hold the beacon of democracy, as a nation where the rule of law is sacrosanct.

You and I can see that. Why can't they?

[bobbolink]

12. Why can't they see that? Party blinders, I'm guessing.

I see it here on DU all the time. "But, it'lll damage "our" chances in 2008..."

sigh.... If we don't value our country enough to put it ahead of party interests, we deserve to lose it.

We've lost the respect of the rest of the world.

Next comes losing our country.

Maybe that will open our eyes????

[MissWaverly]

5. I don't think we are asking for the sun, moon and stars

we are seeing the Republicans obstruct everything, the WH and DOJ stonewall everything and delay it to death. The only real answer
is impeachment. That a woman should demand impeachment from a country that threw her son away over a war based on a lie and 4 years
later can't change course is fitting. We are seen as totally irresponsible and disrespectful. How respectful was it to steal the
2000 election. To take the election by using hill staffer/goons to bust up the recount and have the Supreme Court intervene
in an election? How disrespectful is it to push us into a war based on a lie and then mistreat those who have been disabled.
How disrespectful is it to demand accountability to those who lied to us after 9-11 that the air was safe or that the trailers
after Katrina were safe when they knew they were not.

[Madspirit]

6. k&r...n/t

[RFKJr4PRES]

8. It divides the Democratic POLITICIANS from WE the People

But most of the people are pretty damn united!

IMPEACH HIM NOW
...before we attack Iran...or someone stages a phony attack on us.

Go Cindy!

and Yo Congress? You work for US, not the other way around- get to work!

[saracat]

9. Oh please, Cindy is not capable of rebranding the Dems.And she doesn't represent the Dems.She isn't

a Democrat and has been vocal about her distain for the Democratic Party as well as her ignorance of what it stands for. She is an outsider who will have no "control of the Democratic brand".

[defendandprotect]

14. And what do Democrats stand for .... Party over Country . . . ???? ?????????

[earthlover]

11. YAWN.....

peace queen ,,,equally novel and potentially more consequential clash ....threatened to launch a primary campaign against Pelosi ....the left’s two leading ladies.....existential proxy fight....Hanging in the balance is not just next year’s national election, but long-term control of the Democratic brand....

Gees...the hyperbole abounds, doesn't it?!

No, Cindy's arrival in Washington is not a "clash" that is more consequential than the Democratic debate. Not even close.

No, Cindy did not threaten to launch a primary campaign...she is running as an independent and attacking the Democratic Party as presently being the party of slavery and responsible for every war in the 20th Century. Her sense of history got off to a rocky start with Republican Teddy Roosevelt's big stick foreign policy....but then again, her goal was not to be accurate about history, her goal was to help defeat the Democratic Party.

The left's two leading ladies? More hyperbole.

Existential proxy fight. Wow! A big word!

Hanging in the balance is not just next year’s national election, but long-term control of the Democratic brand.....Wow! Nothing like modesty. Everything centers on Cindy!

All Hail Cindy!

All Roads Lead To Cindy!

Sorry, but when Cindy made her great tour stop in my hometown, the biggest thing the press talked about was the weather....how the crowd was ushered to safety from the storm warnings.

YAWN....

[creeksneakers2]

13. Democrats have an alternative

to impeachment or losing the base. They could kick Bush's ass on the war and starting with contempt findings, work Bush into a corner where there will be no other choice than to impeach him.

[defendandprotect]

15. Impeachment doesn't mean "losing the base" . . . maybe you'll lose the DLC -- ?? !!!

Meanwhile, Pelosi & Reid COULD kick Bush's ass on the war but they don't seem to be deauthorizing this "illegal" war of aggression nor defunding it --

Do they???

[creeksneakers2]

17. I gave two alternatives

meaning if Democrats don't impeach they risk losing the base.

I think Reid and Pelosi are doing what they can. They need to keep the heat on Bush and the Republican Party and provoke more defections.

[cascadiance]

16. Our Dem Club meeting last weekend wasn't very divided on this!

We took a vote on it, and only ONE person stood against impeachment out of about 30-40 people! Everyone else adamantly voted YES! Our Democratic Party group here was NOT divided amongst ourselves. We're only divided from what appears to be a set of corporate Dems that don't want to do anything about it, for reasons that still aren't being adequately explained! The reasons they publicly give (want to focus on other issues, divisive for 2008 elections, etc.) don't add up in my book.

The threat of impeachment is the only thing that this child calling himself our president will understand to get him to cooperate and start signing other bills. Otherwise he's going to continue to be veto-happy like he has been already! That solves NOTHING, and allows this threat to our constitution to continue to wreak more and more damage that will be harder and harder to repair!

Someone on a call-in show says that there is a study/article out there that shows that EVERY congress ghat considered impeachment and went forward with pursuing it, GAINED seats in the following election, whereas every congress that avoided it and stayed away from it LOST seats in the coming election. I'd like to find that article, but I wouldn't doubt that it's probably right! Being divisive for the next election is a POOR excuse for not doing impeachment.

Any other reasons?

Some have also said that it is on record that the threat of impeachment and massive protests against Nixon was what stopped him from following through on plans to escalate the Vietnam war by launching a nuclear strike on North Vietnam. Aren't we glad now in hindsight that we did the massive protests we did, and that Daniel Ellsberg released the Pentagon Papers, and we put the impeachment into high gear when we did? Vietnam with not just dioxin residue from Agent Orange (that is rampant there now and still affecting new generations of kids born there) but nuclear fallout residue as well would be an awful history to have to deal with now.

[Hissyspit]

18. David Swanson's response:

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/24993

Dan Gerstein Misses the Boat
Submitted by davidswanson on Sun, 2007-07-22 23:12. Impeachment
By David Swanson

In the following article in the Politico, Dan Gerstein recognizes the pressure for impeachment and the danger for the Democrats if they ignore it. But he seems to think it can be addressed largely by stroking the egos of Democratic-astroturf bloggers who have largely obeyed the ban on impeachment themselves. Yes, some of the blogs have started coming around in recent weeks, but they are dragging far behind the grassroots. Gerstein also plays the Bush-shuffle trick. This is where you describe a movement that is focused on impeaching Cheney and then pull out the polls and arguments regarding impeaching Bush. There has only ever in the history of the universe been one poll done on impeaching Cheney. Politico has never done one. Only the American Research Group has. That poll found that 76% of Democrats and 54% of Americans and 51% of Independents want Cheney impeached. I'm willing to wager that at least 98% of those people don't give a rat's ass what discredited corporate DNC schmuck kisses up to a bunch of navel gazing bloggers. Gerstein says he plans to lay out the case against impeachment. I've pre-refuted it here.

[EVDebs]

19. The DITHERING divides us. Throw the Impeachment switch and watch the UNITY !

[KoKo]

20. So...Dem Strategist Dan Gerstein dons the Black Cloak of Bob Shrum and

tries to put pressure on Howard Dean to quell the grassroots in their efforts to restore power to Congress through Impeachment.

What a sly fellow he is. All written so nicely and packaged with a neat bow. "Pretty Please, you Grassroots Activists base of the Party....just Shut the Fuck Up!" :grr: