Without a plot, is Padilla guilty?

[NNN0LHI]

http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0719/p03s02-usju.html

Prosecutors say they don't have to link the US citizen to a specific terror plan

MIAMI - A surprising question is emerging as a central issue in the high stakes terror trial of Jose Padilla and two other men.

The three are facing charges that they plotted to spread violent jihad through a murderous campaign around the world. But federal prosecutors say it is unnecessary to link the terror suspects to an actual plan of terror.

Instead, government lawyers argue that a series of shady phone calls and a few documents are enough to establish the existence of a terror conspiracy and send all three defendants to prison potentially for the rest of their lives.

[JacquesMolay]

1. Without a plot, are any of us guilty?

... would you want to be in that position? They're using Padilla as a symbol - they (the government) are showing us they have the power to take away people's right to defend themselves, and just lock 'em up. Just doing it once is a powerful disincentive to dissent.

[lazer47]

7. Being on this board at DU could be described by the Gov.

as being involved in insurrection, subversion, Inciting to riot, and conspiracy to overthrow the current Gov.

[Kagemusha]

2. Conspiracy generally requires actually conspiring to do something.

If the prosecutors are in the position of arguing, plot, schmot, we don't need a plot, well... they're in some pretty murky territory, making it much easier to reverse a conviction on appeal.

And to think that this is why they wanted him outside the civilian judicial system to begin with.

[lazer47]

3. It's that old stand by word "Conspiracy" that gets them everytime

doesn't mean you did it,, just means you thought about it

[Selatius]

4. I think Orwell dubbed that a "thought crime" n/t

[lazer47]

6. I don't know about Orwell, I do know that the Feds, don't have to

prove he commited a crime, just that he hung around other Muslims and talked about a crime

[NNN0LHI]

10. In this case though it appears that the witness who testified against Padilla...

...was rendered to Egypt to "refresh" his memory about Padilla even being a terra-ist.

So keeping that in mind the government just has to torture someone into saying what they want them to say. They don't really need to prove anything.

Don

[Richard Steele]

5. So basically he's accused of being part of a plan that never existed.

Well isn't that SPECIAL! :grr:

[Disturbed]

8. The Govt. kept him in Isolation for over four years.

They had no charges on him but now are fabricating whatever they can to con a jury into convicting him of something, anything. Maybe he said some negative things about Amerika.

[Richard Steele]

9. And even after four years, the best charge they can come up with is "accessory to NOTHING".

Kafka had NOTHING on this misAdministration.

[spag68]

11. Anyone is guilty

if the decider say's he is.

[The Stranger]

12. It is coming closer and closer to his being a political prisoner.

No plot, no violent act, no criminal act -- except what he purportedly believed in.

That is called being a political prisoner.

[Disturbed]

13. I believe that the criminal act was the treatement of this

American citizen.