To those who think "Impeachment backfired" against the GOP re: Clinton.

[Atman]

WAKE THE FUCK UP.

I honestly cannot believe how many times I've seen this meme come up on DU...that we can't impeach Bush because the GOP showed us how it backfired by doing it to Clinton.

Are you people nuts?! The reason it "backfired" against Clinton is because it was a false charge. And everyone knew it was a FALSE CHARGE.

Remember, the American People NEVER called for Clinton's impeachment. However, now, in 2007 the American People are calling for the impeachment of Bush in resounding numbers but the leaders of the DEMOCRATIC congress won't listen to the will of the people.

Think about it.

WTF is going on?

.

[Dr.Phool]

1. They think it's better to let the clock run out on him.

Me personally, I think they're full of shit.

I think these bastards will do anything to stay in power, including staging a terror attack and canceling the elections.

Impeach fucking NOW!

[proud2BlibKansan]

2. Then there is the FACT that

Impeaching Clinton did NOT backfire on the GOP

Pesky little facts. I know, they mess up some people's delusions. Oh well. :)

[pearl]

3. It was an inoculation for what we are seeing now

among other things. These people have been at this for awhile.
"Pray for the dead and fight like hell for the living" Mother Jones

[Hippo_Tron]

10. Clinton's approval rating went up 10 points and they almost lost the House in the '98 elections

If that isn't backfire I don't know what is.

[alfredo]

16. There weren't thousands upon thousands of dead and maimed people

because of his actions. Clinton didn't ever try to overthrow our system of government. I don't think the American people will be as sympathetic towards bush. Clinton always kept some of that cool and charm. bush seems to be coming apart.

[proud2BlibKansan]

19. But they DIDN'T lose the House

and they put their candidate in the WH in the next election.

[Hippo_Tron]

23. Yes, after stealing the election

Do Democrats plan to do that in 2008? If so then we can ignore all potential consequences.

[GOTV]

54. Although the people voted for Gore, the dem n/t

[Tesha]

32. But "almost" doesn't count. And as I recall, the Republicans won a few...

> Clinton's approval rating went up 10 points and they almost
> ost the House in the '98 elections

But "almost" doesn't count. And as I recall, the Republicans
won a few elections in 2000, 2002, and 2004 (and don't hand
me any shite about how the "didn't win" -- *THEIR GUY* still
sits in the White House, not our guy.)

Impeachment worked just fine for the Republicans. It castrated
Clinton and immunized Bush from ever being impeached, no matter
ho heinous his crimes.

Tesha

[Hippo_Tron]

61. Your argument is only valid if Democrats plan to steal the 2008 election

Bush lost in 2000, and part of that was probably due to the GOP's over-reaching in that matter.

I think Clinton's blowjob was about the last thing on peoples' minds by 2002 and 2004.

But you are correct that using it in such a partisan manner is part of the reason Democrats are afraid to use it on Bush.

[Tesha]

63. BUSH SHOULDN'T HAVE EVEN BEEN CLOSE IN 2000, LET ALONE 2004!

*BUSH SHOULDN'T HAVE EVEN BEEN CLOSE IN 2000,
LET ALONE 2004! He was a coke-abusing, draft-
dodging, AWOL, convicted drunk without two neurons in his
head to rub together to make a thought, but he still came
very close to beating our candidate after all of that! Why???

DUers have this nasty habit of blaming *EVERYTHING* on
stolen elections when in fact, they ought to be asking
the question:

"Why was it even close?"

The simple truth is that Republicans are far better at
playing politics than are Democrats, and Republicans
have a long term strategy and vision. It's a visoion
that sucks for most of us, but they have it and they
cleave to it rather than constantly running away from
it.

Tesha

[Atman]

37. You seemed to have entirely missed the point of my post.

I never claimed Clinton's approval ratings didn't shoot up...in fact, that is part of the point...Clinton's approval ratings shot up because the American people did not call for his impeachment, and disagreed with the REPUBLICANS from the get-go. There is nothing similar, nothing at all, going on now. The American people WANT Bush impeached. They're calling for it. I'd bet money the democrats' poll numbers will go DOWN if the DON'T impeach.

Because the American people want Bush impeached, and they DID NOT want Clinton impeached. That's why it backfired on the Republicans, NOT because they simply tried it. Why is that so hard to understand?

.

[GOTV]

55. Most polls show only minority support for impeachment. n/t

[BlueStater]

4. It also needs to be said that President Chimp isn't anywhere near Clinton's popularity

By sitting on their hands and not doing anything while the bastardization of everything this country holds dear continues unabetted, the Democrats are complacent in his crimes.

I've had enough of the lame-ass excuses. Either uphold the damn Constitution like you're supposed to do or resign and give your seat to someone who will.

[pearl]

5. Absofuckinlutely!

Damn them

[noise]

8. Precisely. Do the job or resign.

Congress has an OBLIGATION to uphold the Constitution.

[JamesA1102]

6. You're right

It was a false charge. The problem was they made Impeachment the goal.

We should not make the same mistake now by making Impeachment the goal. A proper investigation to uncover the truth should be the goal. If that leads to Impeachment, then so be it.

Remember it took over 2 years of investigations by the press, a special prosecutor, the Senate and the House during Watergate until enough evidence was uncovered to justify Impeachment.

We need to proceed how they did in Watergate, not how the GOP did with Clinton.

[proud2BlibKansan]

7. Good grief, how much more evidence do they need?????

Welcome to DU but I am disagreeing with your argument. The evidence is THERE!!

:hi:

[BlueStater]

9. Bush admitted on LIVE TELEVISION that he broke the law!

Remember the illegal wiretapping?

[JamesA1102]

13. That's not enough.

That wouldn't even count for a confession in a criminal case. Please don't be so naive.

[John Q. Citizen]

20. A federal Judge has said the administration committed a felony. bush lied to

congress in the constitutionally mandated State of the Union Address, claiming Iraq tried to buy uranium from Niger. A claim he knew was false at the time he made it.

Have you watched the Bill Moyers show on impeachment? It's available on line. PBS.

[MonkeyFunk]

30. The State of the Union

is not delivered under oath.

Every President who ever said "The State of the Union is strong" probably lied in their SOTU.

[JamesA1102]

36. Good point NT

[JamesA1102]

33. Said or ruled

There is a difference. If he ruled then why aren't there any indictments?

[John Q. Citizen]

52. He ruled. It's been appealed. Who would bring an indictment? Gonzales?

[MonkeyFunk]

21. Show me where he admitted he broke the law.

Not admitted to wiretapping US citizens... admitted that in doing so, he broke the law.

[JamesA1102]

12. Is it?

There are a lot of allegations but is there real evidence that would stand up in a court? Remember that requires real documents plus first hand testimony from credible witnesses. During Watergate it took months of hearings to uncover all that. Most congressional committees are just beginning their investigations and are still engaged in 'Executive Privilege" battles with the White House.

[proud2BlibKansan]

17. Here ya go:

Has Bush authorized spying programs knowing they violated the law and the Bill of Rights? He's on videotape lying about it for years. He's on videotape confessing to it. A federal court has already ruled what he's done a felony, finding in NSA vs. ACLU that the NSA program of broad data-mining and warrantless wire-tapping of U.S. citizens is illegal and unconstitutional, violating the Fourth Amendment.

Have Bush and Cheney threatened an aggressive war on Iran? They're both on videotape doing so.

Was Bush criminally negligent during Hurricane Katrina? He's on videotape being warned of the danger. He's on videotape claiming he was never warned.

Have Bush and Cheney used unlawful detentions and torture? The Supreme Court in Rosul v. George W. Bush ruled detainees were being wrongfully imprisoned at Guantanamo Bay Detention Center in Cuba. The Bush Administration’s detainment policies and actions were ruled unconstitutional and illegal - in violation of Amendments V, VI &VII. The use of torture, legally justified by Attorney General Alberto Gonzales and thus condoned by President Bush and Vice President Cheney is an additional violation to the 8th Amendment. The Supreme Court again in Hamdan v. Donald Rumsfeld, George W. Bush, et al. ruled that the Military Commissions instituted by the Bush Administration violate the Universal Code of Military Justice and the Geneva Conventions to which we are bound by American law. Again, the Bush Administration’s actions were found by the highest court of the land to be illegal and unconstitutional - violating Amendments V, VI, VII . Bush and Cheney and their staffs have defended these policies on video and in writing. The practice of detaining without charge and the numerous victims of it are undisputed public knowledge. Evidence of torture is voluminous and indisputable and includes public photographs.

Did Bush and Cheney intentionally mislead the Congress and the public into the invasion and occupation of Iraq? They are on videotape doing so, and the evidence that they knew exactly what they were doing is overwhelming and has been collected here: http://afterdowningstreet.org/keydocuments

[JamesA1102]

34. You have to do better than an article from

a clearly partisan website.

[proud2BlibKansan]

42. He is an expert on impeachment

Unlike you.

[DearAbby]

25. What court? Congress makes this decision

Clinton's perjury charges couldn't hold up in court...yet he was impeached anyway...Congress decides what constitutes an impeachable act.

[JamesA1102]

35. Then let Congress take the proper time to invesitgate

so they can gather enough evidence.

[John Q. Citizen]

53. And what is "proper" in your opinion -time wise?

[pearl]

11. Agreed

The only way impeachment works to the countries benefit is if everybody, (well almost everybody) is on board. And that only happens if everybody, especially repubs see how it is the only option to save our country. They have to choose between country and party. and we do not know how craven or courageous they will be.
"Pray for the dead and fight like hell for the living" Mother Jones

[JamesA1102]

14. Exactly!

The GOP made Impeachment the goal as a feel good exercise for the right. We shouldn't make the same mistake. There needs to be a proper investigation and gathering of overwhelming evidence that no Senator can deny that conviction is not warranted.

[elocs]

15. What I cannot figure out is why this thread does not have 50 recs by now.

From what I have read here at DU is that if you use the "I" word along with any variation of "fuck", especially in bold and caps, you are destined for the greatest list even if you are repeating what has been said over and over and over again. I would love to see some new, original, and insightful about this subject, but this is the summer rerun season.

[Truth2Tell]

26. OK, done, rec'd. Fuck yes. n/t

[Atman]

38. I haven't seen this point addressed even once on DU

It ain't the bold caps or the use of the I word. But your snarkiness is sooooooo lovely! Thank you. Ignore the gist of my post and make cute remarks about it. That's your right. It'd be nice to hear you actually address which parts of my post you feel are wrong or have been addressed over and over again on DU. The bold caps excluded, of course.

.

[in_cog_ni_to]

18. LOOK at these numbers from pollingreport.com!!! Polls throughout his entire term. SKY HIGH! Link:

http://www.pollingreport.com/clinton-.htm

[MonkeyFunk]

22. fact certainly are pesky things....

the repubicans were, in fact, hurt by their failed attempt at impeachment.

We will not succeed in removing Bush at this point via impeachment, and it will hurt Dems, too.

[Atman]

39. The two incidents are simply NOT comparable.

Stay focused...the key point is NOT the outcome and what happened to the Republicans. The key point is WHY the Republicans wound up being so hated for attempting impeachment...because Clinton was a widely beloved figure and it was abundantly clear that the impeachment attempt was a pure partisan witch hunt. Everyone knew it. Are you saying Bush's numbers are so high and he's also so beloved that the American people will be similarly upset when the Congress finally, legitimately performs its constitutional duty?

You have far less faith in the intelligence of the American people than I do...and that's tough, because I have practically NONE.

.

[sampsonblk]

24. I second that!

[Hissyspit]

27. Stop it with all that logic and stuff.

REALLY now! :7

K&R

[Kurovski]

28. K&R. (nt)

[Norrin Radd]

29. k+r

[Hissyspit]

31. .

[madokie]

40. so true Atman so true

[Atman]

41. The other point to consider...

...is why so many Republicans on the talking head shows saying impeachment is BAD. When they start lecturing us about what we should and shouldn't do, you know we're on the right track.

.

[proud2BlibKansan]

45. And some have come to visit us here on DU!

:)

[Atman]

46. I don't doubt it for a minute

Anyone who does is delusional.

.

[proud2BlibKansan]

49. Hey Atman, did you know about this "partisan website":

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/

[madokie]

47. Thats right too

so far this morning you're batting a 100%

[Atman]

48. I must be...the right-wingnuts have two seperate threads devoted to my post

They're throwing feces all over their cages.

.

[madokie]

50. cool, I like watching shit fights from a distance

[Stephanie]

43. How did it backfire, anyway? We lost the WH, we lost Congress.

It's taken us this long to get back anywhere near regaining them. What is this backfire you speak of?

[GOTV]

56. We lost congress before impeachment. After impeachment didn't we gain seats back? n/t

[Beelzebud]

44. Lack of spine and conviction.

[Le Taz Hot]

51. It's one of the DLC's talking point.

PLEASE remember, boys and girls, we're fighting the war for our Democracy on TWO fonts -- the corporate Republicans and the corporate Democrats. Here are a couple more talking points brought to you by the same folks:

- We don't have the votes.
- We don't have time to impeach.

Remember, TWO fronts.

[GOTV]

57. Let's see those "resounding numbers" of people asking for impeachment n/t

[LibDemAlways]

58. Not impeaching Bush for a long list of crimes because the

American people realized the impeachment of Clinton was a politically motivated stunt makes no sense and is the weakest argument against impeaching the current WH occupant.

By not impeaching Bush, Congress is setting a dangerous precedent and is violating its duty under the Constitution.

[dorkulon]

59. Uh... impeachment backfired?

Funny, because I could have sworn that the GOP was in control of congress for another decade after that.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

60. Clinton was a good president who was unjustly impeached.

Apparently, some people are confused.

[Swamp Rat]

62. THANK YOU!

Even refucklicans said the charge was bogus. :eyes: