Arrests made at Conyers ACTION NOW

[ray of light]

Live Blogging the Impeachment Action
I am sitting on the floor of a phone booth, so the police will not make me stand and blog. Lisa from C-ville is standing in front of it, hoping I will not be noticed.

I have never seen anything like this one, folks.

There are HUNDREDS of people lining the hallway to John Conyers' office. Cindy and a few others are inside, speaking to the staff, we assume. But the scene is incredible--people have come from all over the country to deliver the message that we can not tolerate illegal actions and an unConstitutional government.

Richard has the camera and many photos--but he is up close and I cannot get to him. But we promise you photos as soon as possible.

I will update this as I can...

But hello to all from the center of democracy! We are taking it BACK.

Oh--and CALL!

Phone Chairman Conyers at 202-225-5126 and ask him to start the impeachment of Dick Cheney; and phone your own Congress Member at 202-224-3121 and ask them to immediately call Conyers' office to express their support for impeachment. Your Congress Member might be one of the three needed, not just to keep impeachment activists out of jail but to keep this nation from devolving into dictatorship.


UPDATE: They are NOT HEARING US CALL.
CALL PELOSI. CALL OTHERS. MAKE A RUKUS because they are not listening and it's quiet there I'm told!!!!

Cindy Sheehan just left John Conyer's office and announced that Rep. Conyers is NOT going to move on impeachment.

The crowd is very uspet.

Rev. Yearwood announced that the government has failed the people and the people must act NOW. This needs to be spread everywhere.

PEOPLE MUST CALL.

The phone must NOT STOP RINGING. POST THIS EVERYWHERE!!

[EFerrari]

1. Thank you and please be safe.

K&R

[ray of light]

128. Pictures posted Here:

http://www.democracycellproject.net/blog/archives/2007/07/live_blogging_t_4.html

(Sorry...too many.)

[EFerrari]

130. Thank you, ray!

:loveya:

[ray of light]

132. thank YOU!! We're waiting to see what the charges are.

[KansDem]

147. Is the protester in photo 15 being dragged by police?

Looks like it to me.

Thanks for the photos!

[ray of light]

166. yes.

[goodhue]

193. thanks for photos

[ray of light]

145. Mailboxes are full. WRITE FAXES and CALL THE LOCAL offices

also, consider going in in person!

Yuo don't have to get arrested but just GO! Take the kids, the neighbors, and the whole city and go to their local office!

STAND in front of your local media outlet.

[ray of light]

151. more reasons for impeachment

http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/07/23/anti-war-protesters-arrested-in-dc/#respond

[rox63]

2. K&R for impeachment!

Stay safe, RoL.

[liberalnurse]

3. I am proud of Cindy's efforts

and respect her initiative....but I do not support Impeachment either.:blush:

[bdamomma]

8. apparently there are those people who do not support impeachment

if not why, and when do we intend to stop this cancer, if they ignore laws and think they are above the law.

[GOTV]

14. We stop it as soon as someone figures out a way to stop it....

... impeachment won't stop them because we can't get a conviction.

[bryant69]

19. I think it's easier to just assume that people who don't support impeachment are traitors

Saves mental energy that can be better used elsewhere.

Bryant

[DancingBear]

35. And the keep your powder dry crowd chimes in

Jesus H. Christ what is it going to take??

How many more CRIMES do these bastards have to commit???

You sit defending cowards while criminals rip your freedoms to shreds.

I do not understand.

[bryant69]

56. Well can i suggest some possible explanations

It's possible my brain doesn't process information correctly; I lack the mental power to put the pieces together and come up with the appropriate answer.

Or alternatively, my brain is wired incorrectly; such that when the stimulus goes in, it gets rerouted provoking an inappropriate response.

Alternatively maybe I'm just a bad person - I like seeing people in Iraq die, I like seeing our soldiers die, I like seeing our civil liberties gutted; and I don't want impeachment to spoil the party.

Or there could be corruption of a less direct type; I'm on the take somehow, and don't want to see Republicans lose power.

I mean there it is, I could be stupid, crazy, evil or corrupt.

Bryant

[Truth2Tell]

112. Or maybe

You've just spent your whole life seeping in a culture that disapproves of extreme dissent and boat-rocking. Maybe you have a built-in mechanism - born of years and years of TeeVeee and Public Education - that moves you to respect the rationalizations of those in apparent positions of authority.

After all, you know the "adults" don't support impeachment. The "moderates" don't support it. Our "leaders" don't support it, for god’s sakes!

Maybe you are averse to political risk taking? Maybe you've been bred to believe political consequences are more important than moral imperatives? Maybe you don't have children to whom you feel you need to teach lessons of right and wrong?

Could be so many things. But I doubt you're stupid, crazy, evil or corrupt. Just confused.

You shouldn't be so hard on yourself.

[sharp_stick]

69. And right after that come the moronic talking points huh?

[Marrah_G]

98. Explain to me this

How will the house impeaching Bush do a damn thing when the senate will not convict? Please tell me how that will help anything. Will it get my brother home any sooner? Will it keep more from being sent? No it will accomplish nothing. What they need to keep focusing on is the appropriation bills.

Impeachment isn't some quick magic bullet. It won't stop the war.

Just my two cents

[Horse with no Name]

107. Make it as simple as possible

Paraphrasing John Dean.
Impeachment is valuable BECAUSE Bush CANNOT assert executive privilege over ANY ITEMS needed in the investigation AGAINST HIM.
All the records regarding the energy policy, the Plame leak, etc...everything loses it's cover and becomes property of the investigating body (The House). This also means that all the people that REFUSE to acknowledge the subpoenas...Rove, Rice, Miers, etc. HAVE to testify in an impeachment hearing and there is NO getting around that.
The media can ignore Congressional hearings. The media can ignore parliamentary procedure BUT the media CANNOT ignore an impeachment hearing.
SO, if you think pulling the media cover and executive privilege cover off of this administration wouldn't net the support in the Senate (because it sure as hell would the attention of the people who aren't being told exactly what is going on)...then I am sorry that you simply do not understand the reason we NEED impeachment proceedings.

[Marrah_G]

114. Okay now I understand where you are coming from

I had not thought about it from that point of view. I could totally get behind it as a tool to force this administration to cooperate with investigations.

[lefador]

172. Impeachment puts the GOP on both: the defensive, and ON THE RECORD

Which are two very important strategic considerations. If trials would be decided before they begin we could dispose of nearly 90% of our justice system!


If you put the GOP on the defensive, you take away their main weapons... the constant moving targets that they have used to get away with so much for the past 7+ years, and the ability to be on the offensive and keep on framing the debate.

There is an airtight case against Boosh, if the Dems were able to actually articulate it. There is just too much to chose from: energy market manipulation, election irregularities, starting a war of aggression on false pretenses, destruction of the constitutional articles that all branches of government are sworn to defend, war profiteering, the massive list of conflicts of interests, the installation of political officers on every damn branch of government, Cheney's secret stash of fun, lack of compliance and oversight, etc, etc, etc, etc. The list goes almost ad infinitum with these assholes.

Putting the case on paper and presenting it to the American people, forces the GOP (and the Dems) to go on the record. If a GOP or DEM hack goes against impeachment. These votes in the senate are recorded, thus meaning that they implicitly support the crimes that both Boosh and Cheney have committed. They also have to be on the defensive because they need to clear up the charges, and the administration can not longer claim whatever super duper magical executive privileges they pull out of their arse. And most importantly, they can't ignore it and move on, so they have a constant light shed on them, which they can't ignore and which they media can't dim. And the best remedy to clear vermin is sun light.

Of course this would require to have an effective left, or liberal apparatus in this country with some teeth. The GOP has made it clear that they intend nothing short of the complete annihilation of whatever little in the way of liberalism is left in this country.

It is a shame, and I count my lucky stars I got to experience liberalism overseas, where people realize that the working class is the majority and they have no problem with showing their teeth when their interests are compromised by the few at the top. Here, liberals would be akin of a poor Jewish man too afraid of saying something that would upset the SS person escorting him to the gas chamber. Still trying to use reason in order to negotiate with someone who is past logical arguments and has embraced demagogy over human duty. Pretty pleases will not change our fate when they turn on the oven...

[tbyg52]

155. Please post this as an OP

I will admit my ignorance--I did not realize this. I am pro-impeachment because they are trashing our laws and Constitution and that is what impeachment is for. This reason is even better.

[MADem]

208. People who testify can take the fifth. Or refuse to testify like Harriet Miers did.

Even if subpeonaed.

I don't see Harriet's ass in jail. And if anyone moved to so do, she'd be pardoned so quick our heads would spin.

Clinton's impeachment took a long time, too. The show didn't get started (and the investigations were spinning way sooner than the actual nuts n bolts) until fall, and it was Feb when he was let off the hook.

The GOP would be delighted, though. I think they'd see it as a rallying point for their beleaguered pretzeldunce. His polls would go up, I think. And the corporatists would be happy--they'd have their war to profiteer from for a few more months while the Impeachment Wheel was spun.

And Bush would be able to whine about "political persecutions." He'd flip the tale, and play the victim. And the corporate media would help him spin that tale. GE-MSNBC and all the rest, they'd shape the story to be seen as a political lynching...

[ooglymoogly]

240. exactly, I have been yelling this from the very beginning of

calls for impeachment many of them me yelling in the dark....this is vital to the survival of this democracy....bushitler could not call marshal law under articles of impeachment or would totally be drowned out by calls for his resignation and all his signing statements would be toilet paper. He would lose much of his power under articles of impeachment and that is the reason for a long drawn out impeachment process of both Darth and Bushitler.

[proud2BlibKansan]

111. Yes it could help end the war sooner

Impeachment puts the brakes on bush. And to save their own elections, republicans could very well start voting to end the war, since that is what a vast majority of Americans want.

[DancingBear]

118. You mean the bills that they keep writing blank checks for?

THOSE bills?

Sorry, but until the bastards are SHOWN to be criminals (and that is what an impeachment process will do) anything else is whistling past an ever-growing graveyard.

[AntiFascist]

136. My two cents...

Impeachment proceedings will bring to light the crimes involved in falsifying information that brought us into this war. The underlying criminal intent of this Administration will also be highlighted. Regardless of whether or not the Senate convicts (and they likely will after this is all brought to light) the proceedings could very well work to bring the troops home sooner and prevent more from being sent. Inaction will accomplish nothing.

Focusing on the appropriation bills will only allow the right-wing to further stress that Democrats do not support the troops.

[bjobotts]

187. Your are wrong. It will get your brother back sooner whether they are indicted or not

There is no downside to impeachment. It is a coward who refuses to fight over something as extremely important as our constitution because there's a chance they might not win. For those who say it is a waste of time because we don't have enough votes to indict...It's what we elected you to do. The senate is obstructing every piece of legislation coming to it by threatening to filibuster so preventing Senators from even voting on it. So nothing is getting through anyway.
Impeachment will tie Cheney and Bush's hands enough to keep them from attacking Iran which they are planning to do which will keep your brother in the ME a lot longer.

Impeachment will weaken the WH support for the Iraq occupation by gettin more and more Republicans to cross the isle and vote with Democrats on troop withdrawal. It will accomplish this because it will focus attention on all the abuses of power Cheney and Bush have committed. It will call attention daily to the lies that got us into Iraq, to the torture wire tapping and spying on Americans, to the corruption of the DoJ...to the point that it will be political suicide for Senate republicans to go on supporting Bush and Cheney or their Iraq policies.

The corruption is this administration is overwhelming and is running rampant and that is just what we already know about or have on video. After 3mos with a special impeachment task force assigned to investigate Bush and Cheney
the corruption will just pour out(look what we found out about Nixon once impeachment started).

After the corruption starts pouring out very few will continue to support his failed Iraq policy and he will be forced to begin withdrawing the troops.

Whether he is indicted by the Senate or not, the voters will look at Cheney and Bush and any supporting them as lower than low. This will do more to get our troops out of Iraq and faster than anything attempted so far. It's right next to withdrawing the funds.

Somethings (like our constitution)are worth fighting for no matter how much time it takes or in spite of the fact that you might not win. Like in "Field of Dreams",...if you build it they will come. If they will just start the impeachments, the votes will come. It will put all the lies and corruption into perspective giving it the structure of a baseball field. I wouldn't even be surprised if the hundreds of thousands murdered Iraqis and the nearly 4000 slain American soldiers would come also (only some can actually see them) I don't want to wake up like Bush did after 9/11 when he realized he might have prevented this if he would have paid attention to the recent intel reports,..I don't want to wake up with the "if onlys". If only we would have stopped him while we still had the chance to.

This is why I believe Impeachment will get your brother home sooner from Iraq.

[mzmolly]

190. I disagree. Impeachment "now" will only take the media attention away from the focus on Iraq.

I believe we should impeach this fall, after we give the R's time to hop on the "deadline" bandwagon.

[midnight]

231. Do you really believe the media attention is on the Iraq war?

If the media's attention was on the Iraq war they would show us the caskets coming home. They have been told to turn their attention away from the unpleasantries of the Iraq war. Because if the Media did cover these aspects of the war, I'm quit sure there would be more than Cindy and code pink marching into Washington and asking for answers.

[mzmolly]

232. Yes I believe that because it's the case.

eom

[bjobotts]

249. Iraq is the main reason for impeachment so it would keep focus there more

Iraq would be brought up daily and not just past but present conditions as that is what it really is all about. Today in Iraq would be contrasted against Bush position and impeachment weakening that position. Even more than now because the media has stopped routine repoirting of Iraq.

[madrchsod]

146. no shit....

impeachment without conviction is masturbation........

[liberalnurse]

20. I stand at placing all our

energy on the 08 Democratic Presidential Election. I feel that the repair work begins there. I would also love to see the crooks in the WH Impeached and jailed immediately, but the timing and labor-some work and gamble involved is too high a risk and threatens my primary goal for 08.

[JVS]

113. oops, replied to wrong post

[The Wizard]

159. one reason is

to keep these monsters as the face and voice of the Republican Party until the 08 elections. And unlike Watergate and Iran-Contra, these prosecutions should not end because they're out of office. Then there's the 15% who like them.

[EFerrari]

12. It's not only Cindy but other respected activists from all over.

This is going to be big.

[Swamp Rat]

17. yep!

[EFerrari]

30. 'Citing times, Swampy!

:toast:

:hug:

[ray of light]

167. true! Look at the pictures! (not to mention ray mcgovern, col. wright,

Rev. yearwood.)

[LittleClarkie]

4. If nothing comes of this action will people say it was an empty gesture

the way some are saying the all night Senate action was an empty gesture?

It's all good as far as I'm concerned. But if results are the measure, will this action be considered like that action, or will Cindy get more credit for doing something than Reid and the Senate did.

[proud2BlibKansan]

29. 300 people in the hall outside Conyers' office is an empty gesture?

[LittleClarkie]

Didn't say it was. I asked, if nothing comes of it, will some CALL it that.

Just as some call what the Senate did an empty gesture. I don't consider 25 Senators and 57 Representatives at a peace rally outside Congress and an all night debate an empty gesture, but some do.

[EFerrari]

125. "Some" have paid PR teams to always come up with an insult.

So?

[LittleClarkie]

139. I didn't know our fellow DUers had that kind of money

I am talking about DUers not people like, say, Rush Limbaugh.

[EFerrari]

196. Sorry, Little Clarkie, I thought you were talking about the

Republican media.

[LittleClarkie]

197. That's okay. I wish I was. And I know what you mean

The Republican media has been calling the Senate action a "slumber party". That's what you mean.

But I was rather touched by that night, and it bothers me some to see some DUers call it a nothing. I don't think it was. Congresscritters stood up with peace people.

[EFerrari]

198. That was an important night. I stayed up with them --

well, most of the time! lol

[Always AskWhy]

149. Hell no!

It's not a joke but CNN and the rest of MSM is treating it as just another attention grabbing headline by Cindy.

[bryant69]

5. Gosh sounds like that accomplished a lot.

Thank goodness.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Bluzmann57]

6. Thanks for posting this

Hope you all stay out of jail. I called and emailed my Rep earlier today. Hope it helps. But the staffer I talked to didn't seem too enthusiastic. Good luck and we are all with you in spirit.

[bdamomma]

7. I don't understand why they don't want to use the tools that they

have the power to use. Be Safe.

[tridim]

9. Kick! Cindy's getting things done once again.

She's amazing.

[truebrit71]

28. Like what? Getting people thrown in jail and marginalizing the issue?

Yeah, brilliant...:eyes:

[tridim]

31. What did you do today to help put impeachment back on the table?

[eowyn_of_rohan]

206. It never really HAS been on the table -nt

[Richard Steele]

39. Yeah, isn't that how the Civil Rights Movement was completely discredited into failure?

Oh, wait a second...:think:

[Nunyabiz]

53. Ummm the only people I see "marginalizing" the issue is CONGRESS & the MSM

[MADem]

209. Why are you expecting the MSM to cover it? I mean, really.

The media is owned by the corporations that profit most from the war. GE is a top ten Pentagon contractor, they own the NBC family. The money they make off the government is BILLIONS. The dough they make off their media empire is piddling millions.

They use the media arms to shape the debate so they can continue to make money. That's why you see Paris in the spring, summer and fall, but you never see blood in Baghdad.

And if they don't cover it, it never happened. And all the hollering in the world won't change that fact. MOST people, especially in the summertime, don't pay attention.

[Nunyabiz]

235. Well Duh

Of course I don't expect the corrupt corporate MSM & propaganda arm of the Neofascist cabal to cover it.
I expect them to do exactly what they are doing LIE about it and or completely ignore the real issues.

What I do expect however which I fully admit is a pipe dream is for We the People to finally stand the hell up by the millions and take these lying bastards down. As far I'm concerned Faux Noise should be burned to the ground and tell the rest of the MSM you have 24 hours to start telling the truth or you're next.

WE ARE THE REAL PROBLEM!! because about 100+ Million of us know exactly what is going on and we sit on our collective asses and do absolutely nothing about it.

and you are correct, "all the hollering in the world" wont change a thing because they know that is all a few hundred 1000 people will ever do in this country.
That is why we are in the fix we are, the American people have forgotten how to fight back and take care of business.

[MADem]

238. Well, I don't agree that Faux Noise should be burned to the ground.

I think we need the old broadcast regulations back again; an independent FCC that has representation across the spectrum on issues of interest to citizens, and a restored Fairness Doctrine that includes, as part of its fairness, a representation of the two MAJOR views on any issue, back-to-back, and in addition, the ability to "ON DEMAND" call up the minority "opposing views" on any issue at once with the push of a button--not wait till three in the morning. This would insure that not every idiot with an idea uses up all the time on a channel, but by the same token, their views are available (and on-screen directions will show viewers how to access them if they are interested) by simply picking up the remote. Of course, we're technologically a few years from that, but it can be done now, it just takes national will. The FCC needs to stop worrying about titties and behinds, which they spend far too much time on, and worry more about the shopping of political ideas that are blatantly one-sided.

If those rules are brought back, the General Electrics of the world won't want the hassle of owning stations, because they really don't make a load of money (from their view) and they're labor-intensive--there's lots of management and angst involved in running a network. If they can't push their views without also having to show the other side, they'll probably sell off those assets, and they'll return to people who actually LIKE the business of broadcasting, who like the whole entertainment-news-variety-who-knows-what-else model of programming, and who like to compete with others of the same mindset for audience share.

[Nunyabiz]

239. Which is exactly what Kucinich has been fighting to do for years

which is why the MSM flatly refuse to acknowledge he exist. They know he could actually effect change whereas none of the other democratic candidates would change a thing as far as the media is concerned.

[MADem]

251. No, he couldn't. He has some good ideas, but he has other ideas that aren't so hot.

And no matter how much his supporters want it, he's not gonna get more than five percent of the vote, IF he starts getting some momentum and continues to cadge onto free media with stunts like that last fit of pique he threw.

He could ask his rich wife to fund a few commercials, but he doesn't do that because he's NOT in it to win it. He's an "issues" candidate, like he was last time, a Windmill Tilter, and only his supporters aren't in on it, apparently. Everyone else knows what he's about.

[doublethink]

65. Yea MLK, Gandhi etc... etc..... non brilliant types who never went to jail ....

.... ummm oh wait! Never-mind. :eyes:

[truebrit71]

68. Yup, Cindy Sheehan is soooooooooooo MLK/Gandhi like...

...puhleez....

:eyes:

[doublethink]

79. The correlation need I explain it to you is that going to jail should have nothing to ....

do with trying to discredit someones motivations, accomplishments and the like. Got it? :eyes:

[truebrit71]

86. The correlation I think you need to "get" is mentioning MLK & Gandhi

in the same sentence as Cinday Sheehan...

[doublethink]

94. Oh boy, never-mind. n.t.

[Raksha]

157. WHY??? You think MLK wasn't demonized in his own lifetime?

Not everyone thought he was a saint, and many thought quite the opposite. A lot of people including J. Edgar Hoover hated his guts.

[stillrockin]

163. Read your history before spouting off.

Both MLK & Gandhi were reviled by many. Oh yeah, and what did YOU do today to defend democracy?

[lefador]

173. In fact both MLK and Gandhi were assasinated...

... you know, people reaaaally didn't like them.

Gandhi was a pacifist with a spine. People over here seem to associate Gandhi with politeness and submission, which couldn't be far from the truth. He was a giant because he was able to tower over the might of a whole empire. He was humble in his personal affairs not in his achievements.

A lot of liberals in this country should be more concerned with Chamberlain than Gandhi, as they do resemble more the ineffective appeaser that Chamberlain was than the bold liberation that Gandhi carried about.

[puebloknot]

100. MLK and Gandhi were not...

...MLK-like or Gandhi-like until after the fact. They were looked at as annoying flies on the lapel of the white man's progress, until they got down and dirty.

Cindy didn't come out of Central Casting in Hollywood. She has come from a place of grief and determination not to let her country die. She can be forgiven her patched-together, hurry up and run approach to some pretty heroic stuff.

How many of us at DU have camped in a ditch near Dubya's property to focus attention on the criminality of our little tin dictator?

Cindy can take acting and elocution lessons and get her hair and nails done later on. For now, she's got dirt under her fingernails and a raspy voice. And I love her for it all.

[truebrit71]

105. Yup, as a proud member of the slavery party and the "we started every war last century" party...

I really give a shit what this woman thinks or does.

She has mis-represented my party, and has announced that SHE above all, gets to dictate to the Speaker of the House, what should and shouldn't be the order of business by running AGAINST Speaker Pelosi in the next election.

Why the fuck anyone on DEMOCRATIC Underground would support someone like this is beyond me...

[lefador]

175. Party over country, I get it...

I mean a Dem can never be wrong, right?

You know, if you substitute "Pelosi" for "Bush" you sound just like a typical GOP mouthpiece making the association that speaking against the President is nothing sort of treason.

Enjoy....

[EFerrari]

183. Because most of us can walk and chew gum.

[puebloknot]

201. Yup, Cindy's got some nerve...

... threatening to run (her perfect right) against Madame Pelosi, who is still dithering over the marble ceiling she crashed through (and broke her thinking processes in the event, if ever she really had any), and the marvelous party...er...election she's planning for 2008.

I hope Cindy whups her butt real good!!!! I the fuck support her courage in trying to do something that might work, instead of trudging through the Slough of Despond, as our elected Dems are doing!

"She has mis-represented my party ..." You're talking about Pelosi, right?

[conscious evolution]

218. You sure like that talking point don't you.

[Nunyabiz]

236. You are a classic example

Of a fool that has no idea what they are talking about.

"Why the fuck anyone on DEMOCRATIC Underground would support someone like this is beyond me"...


I assume you mean Cindy Sheehan, we should support someone like this because she has backbone and ovaries, something that virtually all of our so called elected officials are sorely lacking.
That and she is right and they are dead wrong.

The Democrats IF they had backbone & balls could have stopped this occupation completely more than 8 months ago, they refuse to do it.
They could also start Impeachment proceedings against the most corrupt & criminal administration in American history that have committed so many crimes in the last 7 years that it boggles the mind, yet they do nothing. Even though this would effectively destroy the rethuglican party for decades.

If they think doing nothing is going to get them re-elected in 08' then they are sadly mistaken.

[ooglymoogly]

241. Exactly right puebloknot. Cindy has and always will have my support.

and I hope she does run.

[BlueStater]

97. As opposed to who? The Democrats?

The ones sitting on their hands and not doing their fucking jobs to uphold the Constitution?

[Skip Intro]

158. More than you or I did today, I'm sure. The fact that we were lied into a first-strike war, damn!

That needs to remain the center of attention, or no less a point of attention than any other point, as far as the Iraq war debate goes. People on the right, in the media and even in our own party try to make it about mistakes being made in the planning for the war, etc.


A point of attention needs to be the criminality and un-Constituionality of this administration and this president. People on the right, and in the media pretend these things don't exist. Hell, they helped get us here, so why should they point out the disaster of what they helped put into motion?

Cindy did that today. She helped put focus where it should damn well be.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

148. Cindy, Cindy, Cindy...

She may always get the spotlight, but she does not deserve all the credit. There have been thousands of activists who have worked longer and harder, who don't get any recognition in the mass media. Among them is one who I greatly respect, Dennis Kyne, who has been speaking at rallies for YEARS about, among other issues, the spent nuke weaponry the US has been using since the Gulf War, in which Dennis served. He has been arrested multiple times as an instigator, just for trying to get the truth to the people.

[puebloknot]

204. It's a sad fact that really good and dedicated people like Dennis Kyne...

... don't get the spotlight over issues that most people just yawn over (at their own peril, of course).

It would be wonderful if activism always carried with it dignity and respect. Just by her in-your-face approach to Bush, Cindy has made herself strident and abhorrent to people who want order at all costs.

I fear that this is going to be a hairshirt revolution, not a velvet one.

I truly don't think Cindy ever set out to gain the spotlight. She was enraged over Bush's cavalier brushing off of her son's death -- along with all the others.

It just may turn out that only the "shreaky wheel" is going to get the grease in our current situation. Polite dialogue isn't working.

[bobthedrummer]

10. In solidarity kick

[GOTV]

11. I think these tactics will fail. It seems paradoxical, but if you want impeachment...

... the house is the wrong place to start.

No one in the house will start this in any serious way until the Senate is on board.

So you should work on the Senate before you work on the house.

The Senate may not get on board until there's more of an outcry from the people.

So the place to start might be with the people.

I admire their effort and their willingness to do something but I wish they'd adopt a more fruitful approach.

[Swamp Rat]

15. Read up!

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org

[GOTV]

33. Read up re: the internet

Here's a reference for you: http://google.com

I'm not going read an entire website to try to understand what you're getting at.

[Swamp Rat]

41. LOLOLOL!! You didn't even bother opening the link and reading what is printed on the front page?!?

I thought it may answer some of your questions, but apparently you are not at all interested in learning a goddamn thing.

Woohoo for willful ignorance!!!

[GOTV]

44. Yes I did. You did not reference a particular post n/t

[Swamp Rat]

54. Sorry, I am not going to hold your hand.

There are links with short abstracts that discuss impeachement, right in front of your face.

Good luck! :hi:

[GOTV]

57. Or write a complete sentence apparently. Sorry to expect more n/t

[Swamp Rat]

73. LOL!

Oh, the irony!!! :rofl:

[napi21]

25. A bill of Impeachment MUST start in the House! THAT is in the Constitution!

The HOUSE must file the bill and investigate, much like a Grand Jury. The SENATE holds the trial and either convicts or acquits!

[GOTV]

38. Yes, I understand that. That's why it's paradoxical. Still there's work to do before that point...

... and that work needs to be done elsewhere as I said

[JuniperLea]

102. Bullshit...

The people are taking it to the streets... this IS the work that needs to be done! This IS our Constitutional right... no, we are charged by the Constitution to do what is right.


Impeachment is the right thing to do. Complacency is the most heinous act right now.

[GOTV]

106. Correction: SOME people are taking it to the streets - which is where I just SAID it should start

so, were not actually reading what I said?

"The people are taking it to the streets... this IS the work that needs to be done!"

Then we agree. The order is: streets -> Senate -> House. If you get the streets you get the Senators, if you get the Senators then the reps will fall all over themselves to impeach and it's all over but signing the eviction notice for Bush and Co.

[JuniperLea]

108. So split hairs...

Some people... and they will make other people feel brave enough to do the same.

It has to start somewhere.

[GOTV]

109. The hair I'm splitting is you fighting with me when we agree. It's a pretty major hair.

"It has to start somewhere"

Yes, and not that Cindy realizes it won't start in the House, we all see it HAS to start AS I'VE BEEN SAYING, in the Senate or the streets. Probably the streets.

[Jack Bone]

142. We've been doing this...

Every Sunday, Noon - 1pm in our own towns...it's easy...check it out!!

http://www.awesclarkdemocrat.com/2007/07/enough.htm

and this..

http://www.theyoungturks.com/section/Enough

ENOUGH!

:patriot:

[stillrockin]

165. What is your more "fruitful" approach?

There is no neat way to do this. Practicing democracy is messy. See Boston Tea Party.

[ray of light]

13. CALL PLEASE--MAKE THE PHONES RING NONSTOP

UPDATE 2:

Ray McGovern, Col. Wright, and Rev. Yearwood were just arrested. Their message to us is that WE MUST STEP UP and CALL and insist on our DEMOCRACY BACK.

[ray of light]

36. They are there and saying they hear no phones ringing

[senseandsensibility]

67. I called and the message box was full

I waited to be connected with an aide, and left a message with her. Who is saying they hear no phones ringing? Freedom of speech is what this country was founded on, and we all need to support it.

[debbierlus]

77. Not answering - my sister called earlier & just got a message & a full message box

In the middle of the week?

[flyarm]

182. I CALLED TOO ALL DAY AND KEPT GETTING MESSAGE BOX THAT WAS FULL!!

BUT I USED THE LIST THAT WAS ON DU AND I CALLED ALL OF THE CONGRESS PEOPLE ON THE LIST AS WELL AS MY OWN..

i posted the list on aol message boards all day today..and sent it out to all my internet groups ..and all called the congress members today.

fly

[proud2BlibKansan]

40. I have called and emailed as many people as I can

Do they need bail money?

[Tuesday_Morning]

42. Done!

Thanks for all you're doing...

[sandnsea]

16. Storming MSNBC might have made the news

and actually gotten through to the people that they are being lied to. Until people understand that one thing, they will never understand or support impeachment, censures, all night senate debates, or anything else.

[bdamomma]

199. yea, we should have a few fronts like to target the media

they keep on getting away with shit too.

[napi21]

18. So did Conyers give a reason why not?

Something must have happened betweern the weekend and today! I heard a caller on the radio say she attended Conyers speech in San Diego and as he was walking in and before he even reached the stage, he said "we gotta take these two people out!" What went on behind the scenes????

[AndyA]

27. I heard the same thing.

Who do you believe? :shrug:

[eowyn_of_rohan]

141. I was just told Conyers was "misquoted"!

Just called my congresswoman's office and was told Conyers did not say he would go after impeachment if 3 more members of Congress joined him. This guy told me that it was KUCINICH that said this...I say Wha? That is counter to all the news articles I have been reading in the past week. I couldnt argue until after I check into this further... Hasn't Kucinich been in the hospital with severe "food poisoning"? THis gets weirder by the minute.

[Raksha]

164. Any update on Kucinich's condition? Thanks for reminding me of that.

I LOVE your username, BTW. Eowyn of Rohan is my favorite Tolkien character...a true Middle Earth feminist!

[Karenina]

21. Rep. Conyers is NOT going to move on impeachment.

I figured as much.

[mzmolly]

59. He's not going to be bullied by Cindy Sheehan on her terms. That's the bottom line.

He'll move on impeachment when HE'S ready and able.

[DancingBear]

71. What absolute horseshit

When HE"S ready.

Could you give us a number in terms of deaths, John?

You know, maybe 200 more? 300??

Or, if it's easier, how many more portions of the Constitution have to be torn to shreds until you're "ready and able"?

Un-fucking-believeable.

[cobalt1999]

81. horseshit or not, no congressman wants to be seen as being bullied into this.

These guys are more about how they are perceived than what they do. No politician will ever give in to a crowd in their office.

[DancingBear]

88. Probably true

Just curious, though - can they "perceive" dead soldiers and slaughtered civilians, or can they only see election coffers?

Never mind - rhetorical question.

[BringEmOn]

191. No politician will ever give in to a crowd in their office?

[mzmolly]

90. Why do you think the act of impeachment will end the deaths?

Explain how that will happen, I'm all ears.

[Karenina]

By then, it may well be too late.

Cindy speaks for me.

[mzmolly]

93. Has Cindy spoken on how impeachment will end the war?

I haven't heard a compelling case to this effect.

[Marrah_G]

104. Because it won't end the war

People like to think it will because they are reacting on an emotional level but the cold hard fact is that impeachment means NOTHING unless there is a conviction in the senate, and there will not be. Impeachment will not bring our military home.

I wish more people would get this.

I want * and ** arrested and locked up. I want them tried for the destruction they have caused. But I know the reality is that that will not happen with this senate, not unless something massive happens to turn the Senate Republicans against him.

[mzmolly]

119. I agree, and in spite of this I support impeachment. BUT, I don't think we can

confuse that act alone with ending the war. I also don't think it's honest for someone who is announcing a run for Congress - in the near future, to mislead people on this issue.

[Truth2Tell]

122. Impeachment is a political winner

EVEN IF the Senate fails to convict, a trial will throw a massive media spotlight on the crimes of this administration. It will highlight for the voters exactly who in Congress is complicit in these crimes. It will HELP us win in 2008.

It also has the added advantage of being morally correct. It sends an important message to the world, and to future generations, that some of us here in Amurka see the light and are willing to fight.

And someone please tell me what other business the House has undertaken this term, other than war funding and minimum wage, that wasn't also symbolic only? After all, the leadership has known full well what fate awaited everything else they have passed. Is empty symbolism just okey dokey when it's directed at the base, but not at the whole electorate or the world?

[mzmolly]

137. Yes, and the massive spotlight on the war goes poof.

I'd rather wait until fall when more R's are expected to hop on board to end the war, personally.

[bdamomma]

202. and those repigs are jumping off the ship, because

their own re elections are coming up. and they do not want to be seen as losers. Wait till they go on vacation they will be hearing from their constituents. Are they still going on vacation?

[GOTV]

203. Massive Media Spotlight!? HA! They'll spotlight the corporate message as they always do....

.... Man all these people that thing impeachment will change the media. Jeeze Louise!

[The Wizard]

168. But if the Senate

saw the pictures of Bush and Cheney having hot man on man sex with Jeff Gannon.............

[Marrah_G]

177. Well of course THAT would be grounds for impeachment

But could they still vote while puking their guts out after viewing the pictures? Cheney .... nekkid.....ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

[The Wizard]

195. Can't get that image out of your head? (NT)

:puke: :banghead:

[Karenina]

131. Ignorance can be educated.

STUPID is forever.

[mzmolly]

135. Not sure how that answers the question, but

uhm I agree.

[Karenina]

154. America is WAY DOWN ON THE TOTEM POLE

on so many global measures. Many on this side of the pond asked, "How the HELL does Rumsfeld still have a job?" for YEARS. :freak: And in view of your CONSTITUTION and what has come to pass, it is seen as being up to AMERICANS to decide that the rampage of your *MIC be addressed. IMPEACHMENT is the indication and signal that you realize SOMETHING is OUT OF WHACK and seriously needs correction. Cindy keeps hammering on THAT point.

The IGNORANT are oblivious to the Constitutional crisis.

The STUPID chant: SUPPORT OUR TROOPS.

Cindy Sheehan has put HER BODY on the line, as her son's was. She has been attacked, battered and bruised, NOT just physically. NO ONE has yet answered her question, "WHAT NOBLE CAUSE?"

[mzmolly]

161. Cindy Sheehan has confused the issue of the war and impeachment.

Impeachment is a seperate cause. YES, one can support BOTH, but some feel it "ignorant" to confuse the two.

John Conyers is not above reproach, neither is Cindy Sheehan. However, I would remind people that Mr. Conyers has had his "body" literally on the line:

Conyers served in the Michigan National Guard 1948–50; US Army 1950–54; and the US Army Reserves 1954–57. Conyers served for a year in Korea as an officer in the U. S. Army Corps of Engineers and was awarded combat and merit citations.<1>.

Conyers grew up in Detroit, and received both his B.A. and his J.D. from Wayne State University. He served as an assistant to Congressman John Dingell prior to his election to Congress. He has been reelected 20 times, never facing serious opposition. He is the second-longest serving current member of the House, as well as the second-longest serving member of either house of Congress in Michigan's history. Only Dingell outranks him on both lists. He is the last surviving member of the Democrats' large freshman class of 1964.

Conyers is one of the 13 founding members of the Congressional Black Caucus, and is considered the Dean of that group. Formed in 1969, the CBC was founded to strengthen African-American lawmakers' ability to address the legislative concerns of Black and minority citizens. He has served longer in Congress than any other African-American. In 1971, he was one of the original members of Nixon's Enemies List.

According to the National Journal, Conyers has been considered, with Pete Stark, to be one of the most liberal members of Congress for many years. Civil rights icon Rosa Parks served on Conyers' staff between 1965 and 1988.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Conyers

[Karenina]

170. I'm a musician. The saying goes...

You're only as good as your last gig.
Cindy IS NOT AT ALL CONFUSED. This clusterfuck must be dealt with NOW by first INDICTING, IMPEACHING and IMPRISONING the criminals and then tending to reparations. IN BOTH IRAQ AND THE USA.

[mzmolly]

174. Goodness,

that's a nice dream. But at best right now we can impeach and take the focus off the war fiasco. I'd rather wait until fall personally.

Peace to you Karenina. :hi:

[Karenina]

178. Same to you, mzmolly!

:hi:

Would that you were able to connect impeachment WITH the war fiasco. My perspective is that of one watching a train wreck from afar. I'm a VERY UNHAPPY CAMPER.

[mzmolly]

180. Oh I connect impeachment with the war, I just don't connect it with an END to the war.

That said, I support impeachment.

We'll see ya round. :)

[bjobotts]

189. See my post above. btw-I'm missing $20 billion...anyone seen it?

I was having it moved. It was in $100 denominations, shrink wrapped and on pallets. Been missing for couple years now. Just asking

[mmonk]

181. Bullied?

How can someone not in power bully someone in power?

[mzmolly]

184. Uhm, let's see. Do X or I'll do Y?

:shrug:

[mmonk]

188. We are supposed to be the boss.

[mzmolly]

192. Yes "we" are.

:hi:

[senseandsensibility]

22. Please call the number for Conyers above

I just talked to a staffer, so if the lines aren't jammed not enough people are calling!

[grasswire]

23. done and done

Me: I'm calling to ask about Mr. Blumenauer's position on impeachment.

The person answering the phone: Congressman Blumenauer does not support any of the efforts on impeachment.

Me: Why not?

Them: I'd like to send you a letter from Mr. Blumenauer expressing his position.

Me: I would expect that a good portion of Mr. Blumenauer's district is in support of impeachment, and I'd like to think that he is responsive to the will of his constituents.

Them: I'd like to send you a letter from Mr. Blumenauer.

And so it went.

[Mme. Defarge]

45. Just sent him a letter.

Oh well.

[partylessinOhio]

24. Well, this looks like Madame Squeaker put her foot on Conyer's neck.

Now isn't that special!

Pelosi has got to go.

Bush/Cheney have set their own table for impeachment. The Constitution mandates the action Congress must take.

Do we have a democracy or not?

:shrug:

[grasswire]

26. you're blaming Pelosi for the protests at Conyers' office?

What's up with that?

[proud2BlibKansan]

34. She is the one holding him back

[onenote]

61. how is she doing that?

Just curious. And does Nancy have something on the other 200 plus Democrats who haven't co-sponsored the cheney impeachment resolution?

[proud2BlibKansan]

66. The loss of party support is pretty critical

Even the most entrenched member of congress needs the support of the party when running for re-election.

[onenote]

74. And Nancy is "the party"?

Just checked the DNC website -- can't seem to find the big "Impeach Now" link.

[DancingBear]

91. They only bring it out during fundraising

You know, that time when all the OTHER lies come out too?

Surely you don't think they'll kill the golden K Street goose over a couple thousand dead kids, do ya?

[proud2BlibKansan]

110. She has a lot of power

And they do seem to bow down to her.

[onenote]

124. Really. John Dingell has just been kissing her ring hasn't he.

Tell me what power she has over the likes of John COnyers. Specifics. And reality based.

[DancingBear]

47. Pelosi is the ultimate hypocrite

But then again, some of us already knew that.

[Cameron27]

51. Ugly Pelosi pic in your sig line...

nice going.:eyes:

[partylessinOhio]

62. What? You are saying she is "ugly?"

That is how she looks when she is not being "nice" with Bush. Then she is all ga ga with syrup smiles.

I have nothing to do with Nancy's face of Olay. Nothing.

[mzmolly]

123. Hello "Partyless" when did you leave the Republican Party?

:hi:

[partylessinOhio]

152. Never been there. Lifelong Democrat but they don't represent me anymore.

So it seems I'm left partylessinOhio. Latest example is this newly elected Democratic governor who has already screwed us.

:hi:

[bobthedrummer]

32. Finally got through to Conyers staff-mailbox may be open now too

[Disturbed]

49. Today was the Deadline for Josh Bolton to appear before

Congress to testify & bring documents under Subpoena. Rep. Conyers said that he would issue Inherent Contempt if Josh Bolton refused to show up. Obviously, nothing is going to happen with this today. Maybe Conyers will issue Inherent Contempt when Congress resumes in Sept.

[debbierlus]

37. I will do a e-mail action alert with the post!

Send all our love & thoughts to the courageous woman that is Cindy Sheehan.

[EFerrari]

43. Mailbox full.

:woohoo:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

46. Tell Them To Leave Conyers Alone Already. Jesus.

[marylanddem]

48. Called Conyers office & Steny Hoyer (my cong.)

Asked for Steny's opinion on impeachment. Was told he hasn't taken a position though "it's an issue many constituents are concerned with" so I said impeach both of them. Very nice guy, nice female in Conyers office. Keep calling all of them

We were at the D.C. march this a.m. (didn't stay to get arrested) & that male Washington Post reporter who goes on Olbermann a lot - Dana something - was there - maybe he'll be on Olbermann.

Keep calling them.

[senseandsensibility]

52. Dana Milbank?

Was he asking any questions of the protestors?

[marylanddem]

55. Yes, Dana Milbank was there, very close to the front

I even said hi to him, said he's doing good on Olbermann (at least he is recently, I hope) & he said Thanks.
He was being inconspicuous in a short sleeved shirt. I didn't SEE him interviewing marchers but I imagine he was.
He was shorter than I expected. They always are!

[senseandsensibility]

60. You're right

Isn't that funny? I've run into a few TV jouralists in my time, and they often are shorter than they appear.

[marylanddem]

63. Yes - Except for Pat Buchanan -

I saw him in an airport onetime and he's actually tall!

[mzmolly]

50. Conyers is not going to move "today" on impeachment.

That's my take. Regardless thank you Ray of Light for your patriotism, I appreciate all that you are doing for your country.

[DancingBear]

58. No, he'll need to convene a study group

and get recommendations, and take testimony, and file a report.

Should get done around, oh, January 2009 or so.

But don't worry, he'll still bluster enough so that all the true believers will still hang on his every word.

[mzmolly]

64. Or perhaps he'll find out something from Cindy Sheehan that he was unaware of and get right on it!

Or, he'll telegraph to her exactly what he's doing and when - knowing full well she'll keep her mouth shut about it. :eyes:

[DancingBear]

115. Oh, no, I'm sure Conyers is the stealth impeacher right now

Yesiree, he's on the trail right now.

Impeachment any day now.

Just didn't want to tip his hand to Cindy The Nut.

Geez, you're a Democratic fund raisers wet dream...

[mzmolly]

121. I'm sure he is.

And, when it happens, I wont say "I told you so." ;)

[DancingBear]

144. Don't worry

You won't have to. :)

[Mme. Defarge]

78. Hold more hearings

no doubt.

[partylessinOhio]

70. America is screwed!

Thanx to Madame Squeaker and Reid and a gaggle of other Democrats that refuse to do what the voters told them to do in November, 2006.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

87. Yes, we are. What is happeing there should be a headline on MSM cable news, and so far nothing.

Americans are being kept in the dark.

As to Pelosi. Reid, Conyers, etc. I firmly believe that they are either working for the same people as the GOP, or are being blackmailed or threatened. I cannot see any other explanation as to why they are not using their Constitutional Duty to proceed with Impeachment. Shrub makes Nixon look like a choir boy.

[JVS]

120. screwn

[ray of light]

72. Silence is NOT GOLDEN

HIT THE STREETS PEOPLE!

[senseandsensibility]

75. What else is happening?

Please keep us informed, since the corporate media obviously won't.

[marylanddem]

76. Did Cindy get arrested? What's going on now?

[ray of light]

82. Cindy arrested, Ray McGovern arrested, Col. Wright arrested

Rev. Yearwood arrested. 30 more brave people arrested with them.

Around 100 there are WILLING TO GET ARRESTED.

THEY NEED US!!

We need to be in the STREETS and making calls.

CELL PHONES are MOBILE> SO LET'S GET MOVING and CALLING FROM WHEREEVER WE LIVE.

GO to you local news.

Go outside

Wave a flag and shout impeach!!!

NOW please!!!!!

[bluedog]

85. they knew they would be arrested...nothing new.move on

[ray of light]

127. almost 100 people arrested. can't get through on the phone.

[eggman67]

80. I keep re-reading the post

but can't find any reference to the "Arrests" mentioned in the subject line.

[Ghost in the Machine]

95. Post #13...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1410230#1410314

[Individualist]

83. Conyers message to the cabal: Continue doing whatever you please; you'll get no opposition.

:puke:

[AikidoSoul]

84. EVERYBODY -- Please phone Chairman Conyers at 202-225-5126

Everyone needs to do it.

Their duty is to uphold the Constitution of the United States of America -- they all took the pledge to do so!

[Babsbrain]

89. As of this time, his mailbox is full

NO messages accepted..will try later but sent fax.

[EFerrari]

92. Mailbox full. Is there some other way to contact the office?

:toast:

[emlev]

160. ADDITIONAL CONTACT INFO FOR CONYERS

2426 Rayburn Building
Washington, DC 20515
[phone]
[phone] Fax

2615 W. Jefferson
Trenton, MI 48183
[phone]
[phone] Fax

669 Federal Building
231 W. Lafayette
Detroit, MI 48226
[phone]
[phone] Fax

[EFerrari]

194. Thank you, emlev. n/t

[WinkyDink]

96. I just checked CNN, MSNBC, FOX~~~~Nothing.

[onecent]

101. America's main stream media SUCKS. Until we get some media

backing, I thing we are screwn!!!111111111

[Marrah_G]

117. WBZ radio boston news mentioned it on my way home from work.

[onecent]

99. Conyers mailbox is full 3:34 p.m.

[me b zola]

103. I'm proud of all of you!

[JVS]

116. wow. I am impressed

[FourScore]

126. I called Conyers and Hinchey!

Conyers aide sounded tired, Hinchey's was great...

[BlooInBloo]

129. The party of slavery - what a truly evil, evil party it is!

[karendc]

133. THANK YOU Ray of Light

And everyone else who has called today.

Please see the Democracy Cell Project for photos of some of those arrested today. They are just folks, like all of us, and they are deeply concerned about the future, like all of us.

http://www.democracycellproject.net/blog/archives/2007/07/live_blogging_t_4.html

Amplifying the message that we, the people, are simply not going to wait around until the Constitution is toilet paper, is critical. Even though John Conyers is an amazing man and an honest one, he still needs the STREET HEAT to step out of line.

Keep it up and please lend your support to those who did such a good job today on our behalf.

[Jack Bone]

134. just called Rep. Conyers and Rep. Donnelly (my Rep)

this was my 2nd call to Rep. Donnelly in support of #333...the assistant that answered the phone and I had a lil' discussion...he was quite helpful...he told me that they've got alot of calls today addressing Indiana's new Cigarette Tax!!...now there's an issue of national importance!!! LOL

:rofl:

[Iverson]

138. 202-225-5126 the least we can do

I called and got a human being.
Standing in solidarity with those who risk arrest is the least that we can do.
It is also quite simply the right thing to do: morally, politically, Constitutionally.
Surely a few thousand polite messages urging the right thing should be no problem for this site.

Representative Conyers: 202-225-5126

Get off the computer and call!

Thank you.

[ClayZ]

140. IMPEACH K and R

Thanks for posting this!!

[Vidar]

143. K&R.

[Rageneau]

150. What will it take? Violence? Civil Disorder? Bribery? What?

[Emillereid]

153. Just called Conyers and Waxman.

Conyer's mailbox is full and Waxman's secretary hung up me when I told her if the congressman won't listen to the wishes of the people, then step aside, because WE THE PEOPLE DO HAVE THE BALLS TO IMPEACH THESE THUGS!

[The Wizard]

156. Shout it from the roof tops

The whole world is watching. The whole world is watching. The whole world is watching.

[Danger Mouse]

162. Now Sheehan is definitely running against Pelosi?

Okay. My ambivalance towards her has ended. I now strongly dislike her.
As for this action, I'm not surprised Conyers said 'no' to her. If he has intentions to impeach, he's certainly not going to say it to HER. If he doesn't, then her berating him isn't going to change squat.

[stillrockin]

169. Yes, how DARE she

practice the right of every American citizen to run for office, especially in view of the spectacular job Speaker Pelosi is doing of enabling the Bush administration?

[LittleClarkie]

200. The poster didn't say Cindy didn't have the right to make that choice

he/she just said "bleck" in response to that choice.

[Danger Mouse]

212. Yeah, that's what I was trying to say that exactly.

She has every right to run for the office.
I have every right to criticize that decision and not support her and be vocal in my lack of support for her.

[ray of light]

171. He obviously wants US to JOIN HER so that he can say

AMERICANS And MANY OF THEM DEMAND IT!!!

[Danger Mouse]

213. Huh?

I don't get this response at all.

[Lilith Velkor]

222. Apparently, Conyers wants you to get arrested at his office

...so he can start impeachment proceedings. Never mind grounds or building an airtight case or any of that boring legalese shit, it's all about sincerity.

[Danger Mouse]

224. Ah, of course.

That makes PERFECT sense. :crazy:

[ray of light]

248. double huh! I don't get it either. I must have been tired when i wrote that.

(ok. I'm really blushing here.)

[Danger Mouse]

250. You did it on purpose

You're trying to plant things in my brain! I'm on to you! :crazy:

[ray of light]

254. I am a plant. muahahahha

[EFerrari]

186. Do you not understand that Cindy is not there alone but on a team

of nationally well known activists? And it sounds like, a few hundred other people. lol

[Danger Mouse]

211. I can read, thanks.

I realize she's not the only one.
It's her I don't like. No problems with the other ones.

[EFerrari]

215. If you can read you must realize Mr. Conyers did not say no to Cindy.

But, by all means, continue to personalize this.

[Danger Mouse]

216. Did I miss something?

I read up top that Conyers told Sheehan that he wasn't going to move forward with impeachment.

[EFerrari]

217. He told a GROUP of NATIONALLY KNOWN activists

but here's the deal, if the media trots Cindy out, then the whole thing gets spun into being about Sheehan and not about impeachment. Does that make sense?

I'm sorry if I'm cranky, EH. Long day.

/ack

[Danger Mouse]

219. I know.

But THE OP SAID 'Cindy announced blah blah blah' so I took it to mean that he said no to her. Stupid of me? Maybe.
The media trots Cindy out, true...and it gets spun into being about Seehan and not about impeachment.
And we do the same thing. It's always Cindy, Cindy, Cindy...and I fear, there are many DUer's who have a blind love of her, and fly into a rage when someone tries to criticize.
That's not healthy for our efforts. We don't need idols.

[EFerrari]

223. We agree on that. We need worker bees, lol.

[Danger Mouse]

225. And less hero worship.

If you put someone up on a pedastal...invariably they will fall.

[EFerrari]

226. The cult of the individual is a very old American tradition.

[Danger Mouse]

227. Sometimes it produces good results.

Sometimes...not so much. Hero worship has destroyed a lot of people.

[EFerrari]

229. It's unreal, it's not about real lives of real people. Agreed. n/t

[Danger Mouse]

230. Ah well.

Anymore thinking tonight will make my head hurt. Thanks for the apology, it was appreciated, and have a nice evening. :hi:

[rucognizant]

234. The cult of the individual is a very old American tradition. Used to be............

That ended on 1/20/81, or hereabouts...........
I am still trying to be an individual in America, NOT many left. I get gut punched on a regular basis. My small Art business was seriously compromised by the tax "REFORM"? of 1986! That was a bipartisan effort by Congress. That ended income averageing................... As an Artist it's impossible to predict, corral, or force, an even flow of work, as is possible with selling socks & underwear, or party goods!
The loss of "savy" seeing Americans who buy artwork, has dropped off at least 65%. Corporate entities, use eminent domain victorian images instead of paying an Artist to do them
or they think it's clever to use their 10 year old kids drawing in their latest ad! ( 10 year olds don't have motgages, car insurance etc. etc,.) Yeh let them earn the money!
ARRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!
On the other hand, some of the concentration camp prisoners used their art work to get little perks from the guards..................

[ooglymoogly]

243. Why don't we just replace Cindy with Gandhi in your little diatribe....

and see where logic leads us...Or wasn't Gandhi the center of the presses attention in your frame of reference. IMO all movements need leaders willing to speak out to power and fight in the trenches and Cindy is one such brave soul.

[Yukari Yakumo]

244. One problem with you suggestion

Gandhi never attacked anyone who would have been his supporters. Plus his style was non-confrontational. And he cared about the course his movement was going. Also he was a uniter, not a divider. None of which could be used to describe Cindy.

[ooglymoogly]

246. your take on Gandhi is totally wrong....

he was always confronting power and being arrested for it and he was always chastising supporters for going in what he perceived the wrong direction and in the long run he was proven right. I think you are confusing Gandhi with a common perception of Jesus: But he too chastised followers and confronted power and was arrested and crucified for it.

[mmonk]

176. Thanks for the update.

[ProudDad]

179. Those are the ONLY TROOPS I'LL SUPPORT!!!

Bless all who were arrested in the name of Peace!!!

http://www.democracycellproject.net/blog/archives/2007/07/live_blogging_t_4.html

These are pictures of HEROES.

[Senator]

185. K&R

[rucognizant]

205. Discrepancy!

Over on the liveblog at Conyers office @ 6:03PM , karen posts that she was told that only 13 people have signed on to H#3 33.
Funny, I was told at about 3:30 or 4:00PM by one of my Congressmen's aides that there were 16 signed on to it! I called Mike Michaud & Tom Allen's offices
It was on my list for today, but was precipitated in a white hot fury, after opening my mail. The power company has me on the ground, with one foot on my back!
Enron comes to MAine. The State was deregulated in 2001 or 2, bills steadily climbing since then and the 2 most infuriating things they do......."YOU must be doing something to run up the bill" Yeh! like & pinning my clothes on the line to dry, cooking my food on the backyard grill over gleaned wood to avoid using the electric stove, !I am now stuck with, The $400. ( I could use ) for a gas stove is going to the power company leaving nothing over. The other................"Can you go to your town or church and ask them for the money to pay your bill." I am working 200% to try & start a second free lance art business, ( the first one was destroyed by the Regan Bush recession of 1990, long story! Too late now, Horatio Alger is DEAD! or in detention.might as well plant another row of turnips and fix up that hen house in-the shed!
Yeh right! The town is going to put me on the rolls for $100. per month! Or the local "faith based charity" the one that gives out out of date plaster of paris cup cakes at their food pantry!
Medicare wouldn't pay for my foot ex ray at the hospital............( The State of Maine picked up their 1/2 of the tab.) I average $200. per year for medical care, & under #30.00 per year for drugs. Wouldn't you think they could pick up the tab, since they are sending the other 1/2 of my SS to Halliburton, Blackwater,Isreal, Iraq, Pakistan, Columbia, ...........& who knows where else?
If I were 48 or 58 I would go out and get some houses to clean for extra money! Honey at 68 that's just not do,able!
They are torturing seniors now too!

[ourvoicescount]

207. IMPEACH THE BASTARDS. Thank you for standing up.

[Kurovski]

210. K&R. (nt)

[raven880]

220. Excuse my ignorance......

I'm new here. What is K&R?
Thanks

[Kurovski]

228. ...and "R" is for "recommended".

Welcome to DU. :hi:

[snappyturtle]

214. K&R Kick! I'm so proud....wish I were there! n/t

[alllyingwhores]

221. So...why is he NOT going to move on impeachment?

Because he doesn't want to be bullied? WTF? Seriously, what's his excuse?

[shance]

233. Have they disconnected the phone lines?

That was my first thought.

They have done it before.

It seems we all have to go to DC.

[cullen2382]

237. Toll Free numbers?

I don't have long distance. Anyone know of toll free numbers?

[MasonJar]

242. It is 3p.m. EST and I just called my rep and Pelosi. I left her a scathing message

and I wasn't too nice to Yarmuth's aide.

[John Kerry VonErich]

245. It unfortunately will never work.

As I said countless times, this will only be ignored.

[jimlup]

247. What other options do we have?

Well, yes and no. It raises the cost of not following the wishes of the people. Eventually, if the crap continues, and it likely will, it will be the only option left. That is important in my opinion.

I see your point but do you see mine? Protest movements do have an impact. They are marginalized by the media so the impact is reduced but really what other options are available? Elections don't work - as we saw clearly in '00 and '04 (and '06 ... the reason for the current protests!) and will likely learn that hard lesson yet again in '08.

Raise the cost of the war! Raise the cost of the illegitimate Bush administration! Raise the cost until there is a remedy! Why aren't there more americans willing to do this? Is our life in coorporate dreamland really that comfortable? I guess yes but eventually the shit will hit the fan and people will have to take a stand. They'll be confused at first but eventually they will discover who the real oppressors are.

[John Kerry VonErich]

252. I fear the worst

I read posts from a lot of extremely angry people. They go all out in wanting impeachment, which B/C truly deserves. Now it is starting to feel like desperate times for call for desperate messures, and I hope to God himself that will never happen.

[John Kerry VonErich]

253. I fear the worst

I read posts from a lot of extremely angry people. They go all out in wanting impeachment, which B/C truly deserves. Now it is starting to feel like desperate times for call for desperate messures, and I hope to God himself that will never happen.

[John Kerry VonErich]

255. sorry about the double post

[jimlup]

256. Reasons to be mad

Hey John,

Yeah, I think people have a right to be very angry in this situation. We've had our country stolen from us. We have a president who has committed blatant war crimes and crimes against humanity in our names. We have a government run by elites that want profits for themselves and their elk and will happly allow force capitalism down the people's throats. We have a system that isn't really accountable to the common people. We have a media that slants the news in service to this system.
The time is coming when the social contract will be up for renewal once again. Will the people accept the same old deal? Or will they realize how much of the short end of this deal they are getting?

I was a liberal democrate for many years. Then in 1991 during the first Persian Gulf war, I realized that some parts of the news were not making sense to me. I researched much further and found that I was no longer a liberal democrate. I discovered that my country was run by a bunch of hypocrits who had no care for the ideals that I took for granted. I discovered that the news didn't make sense because the stated ideals were not the reasons the elites acted the way they did and do.

I think there is reason to be mad, very mad. Some of the raw parts of the system are showing now. Unfortunately, I don't think a democrat in the White House will really solve it. It will take much more than that. The democrats are basically a softer gentler side of the business party. Same deal just a little better social contract.

The time will come for dramatic action. That time may not be for fifty years but on the otherhand it may be tomorrow. People will need to stand up for themselves.

Regards,

Jim Lupton

PS. I guess I'm not really mad anymore, just cynical as hell. The Iraq war is a real example of how out of control our goverment really is. If we want to stop it we are going to have to do more than just elect a democrat or two.